stairway to heaven?

[djaio]

i'm not really into having other people interpret my dreams, but this seems pretty meaningful. i figure i'd see what you guy have to say. i had this dream about a year ago. i'm walking around town at night. i'm alone. it's my town square, usually a pretty busy place on friday or saturday nights. i go inside a tall building. inside it's completely white and empty. the only thing in the entire building is a white spiraling staircase. there aren't even any separate floors, so you can see the staircase go all the way up. i start climbing. i get to the top, and there's this HUGE black guy. imagine a Mr. T about the size of an elephant. or if you've ever played final fantasy vii, he looked like Barret. there's also this small white cop, apparently trying to arrest the black guy for possession of marijuana, or something. so the black guy won't have none of 'dis shit. he straps the cop with time bombs. the black guy says something like "i don't wanna do this, but it's the only way to save us." i dont remember the exact words, but it was something like that. then i realize i should get the **** out of there before the bombs explode. i start running down the staircase. the black guy is pretty close behind me. as time ticks away the black guy starts sort of swinging down - this is really hard to put into words, but he'd jump down, grab onto the rail, swing around and drop onto a lower floor. so i start running faster, fearing he'll run me over. instead he just jumps over me, to the bottom floor of the building. then the bomb explodes, and from an out-of-body perspective i see blood splatter on the floor. my blood. i died. the end. :D

[Leo Volont]

This Dream may well be an allegory which provides us with a parallel narration for the decline and collapse of our Civilization. Civilization is like a huge infrastructure of many elaborate provisions, like a staircase, and all linked together. The small white cop against the huge Black Criminal are an indication of our modern moral declines. The forces of Civilization can no longer stand even against the dark forces of barbarism. Revolution ensues. Explosives set to blow up the very top end in taking out the entire staircase. But this was your dream. We must take the Dream from these Macro-Cosmic proportions and narrow it down to the Personal. Well, what do we know. We know that our Dreamer goes all the way to the Top of this staircase... that is a good thing. It shows the capacity to aspire. But reaching the top our Dreamer witnesses a drama between a massively strong Evil against an enfeebled capacity to maintain Order and Civilization. Our Dreamer decides to go with Strong Evil and it never occurs to him to support the police and confront the Criminal. When bombs are set, our dreamer thinks only of escape and never of the possibility of saving the Building. Instead there is a rush to sink lower and lower. Our Dreamer though is not naturally evil and cannot sink as low as the elements he sided with out of cowardice. Only those who can go to the very moral bottom are saved when the Moral Structure is destroyed. Our Dreamer who thought he could save himself by siding with strength and by running from confrontation, well, he dies. Wrong choices. Had correct choices been made, then this 'death' might have timed-out, and 20 seconds later life would have returned. But this death was deserved and its sting would be lasting. Dreams consist of Choices. In our dreams we must insist upon being Heroic. In dreams I have stood with the Villagers against the Giants. One need not be paralyzed by fear. And unless one is willing to race down and dwell on the very lowest and degrading bottom of anti-moral turpitude, then not standing with the Forces of Civilization against the criminals and bomb throwers will result in one's own destruction. Now, this dream was a year ago. In that time have you resolved to learn any lessons that this dream was instructing you in? Perhaps not. Sometimes people see dreams as monolithic and invariable structures that had been inflexibly carved in stone. They fail to see that certain choices were made, and it is the quality of these choices that determined the way of the Dream. so some dreamers would see moral degradation and cowardice as nothing more than just the scenery of their Dream. Then they might wonder why other people dream of being Heroes while they only dream of being lowlifes and cowards. But, really, one must choose to be heroic.

[djaio]

hmm. that's an interesting analysis, but i don't think it's entirely accurate. for one thing, i dont believe in good and evil. yeah, the black guy committed a crime, possession or whatever it was, but that only a crime in the eyes of the white cop. the black guy is rebellious, yeah, but we all know rebellion isn't necessarily an evil thing. and the white cop may have been striving for law and order - but we also know the striving for law and order can be corrupted or oppressive. my point is, in the dream neither party seemed right or wrong - it was simply a conflict, and i was witnessing it. maybe i was "wrong" by not disarming the bombs(were that even possible), but there didn't seem any need to save the building. i gotta admit i can't remember my feelings or decisions very accurately. i always have trouble with that - i can remember the general idea of a dream, the characters, the words, the scenery...but my own thoughts, impressions and decisions are clouded in my memory. it always seems like the dream is just happening and i'm only going along for the ride. anyway... my death and the end was pretty unsettling, and maybe that shows i made "wrong" choices. i don't know. this is why i prefer others not try to interpret my dream...there's too much i can't describe in words, too much that gets left out. but hey, i asked for interpretation by posting it, so thanks anyway. ...actually, contradicting what i just said...i want to see what you think of this dream. although i'll probably just disagree with you some more. the theme is kind of similar. i had this dream about two years ago, but i didn't write it down, so this is from memory. my mom, my sister and i are traveling on foot somewhere. first we're in this vast desert. when we get through it we find some guides that lead us up a mountain. it's a pretty cool place, with rainforests and waterfalls. we climb higher and higher. the mountain gets drier was we climb. we reach the peak, which is incredibly high. probably a few miles up. we're overlooking this vast ocean. we jump off...i jump alone, i don't remember if i jumped before or after my sister and mom, or if they jumped at all. the fall is exhilerating, and the whole time i'm watching these two sort of rectangular islands below me. i fall for half a minute or so before i gradually start to wake up. this is the cool part. as i wake up, the two islands below me turn out to be shadowy spots on my ceiling. sort of like when you hear a beeping in your dream, and it turns out to be your alarm clock...that kind of thing. as i realize i'm awake in my bed, i notice i'm gripping the edges of the bed tightly. copied from my dream journal, with some addition of detail. you might take a look at my dream journal, i've had some pretty interesting dreams. my best dreams have really obvious symbolism, like the one with the white staircase. also, my dreams tend to have these incredible landscapes...roads stretching on forever with black clouds in the distance with light trying to break through, deserts, eerie fields of tall grass, forests, deserted paths, entire villages and landscapes i've never even seen in real life, and they always strike a deep chord in my heart, be it wonder, fear, dread, mystery...ok, i'm getting poetic here. heh.

[Leo Volont]

Originally posted by djaio hmm. that's an interesting analysis, but i don't think it's entirely accurate. for one thing, i dont believe in good and evil. yeah, the black guy committed a crime, possession or whatever it was, but that only a crime in the eyes of the white cop. the black guy is rebellious, yeah, but we all know rebellion isn't necessarily an evil thing. and the white cop may have been striving for law and order - but we also know the striving for law and order can be corrupted or oppressive. my point is, in the dream neither party seemed right or wrong - it was simply a conflict, and i was witnessing it. * my death and the end was pretty unsettling, and maybe that shows i made \"wrong\" choices. i don't know. this is why i prefer others not try to interpret my dream...there's too much i can't describe in words, too much that gets left out. but hey, i asked for interpretation by posting it, so thanks anyway. i had this dream about two years ago, but i didn't write it down, so this is from memory. my mom, my sister and i are traveling on foot somewhere. first we're in this vast desert. when we get through it we find some guides that lead us up a mountain. it's a pretty cool place, with rainforests and waterfalls. we climb higher and higher. the mountain gets drier was we climb. we reach the peak, which is incredibly high. probably a few miles up. we're overlooking this vast ocean. we jump off...i jump alone, i don't remember if i jumped before or after my sister and mom, or if they jumped at all. the fall is exhilerating, and the whole time i'm watching these two sort of rectangular islands below me. i fall for half a minute or so before i gradually start to wake up. this is the cool part. as i wake up, the two islands below me turn out to be shadowy spots on my ceiling. sort of like when you hear a beeping in your dream, and it turns out to be your alarm clock...that kind of thing. as i realize i'm awake in my bed, i notice i'm gripping the edges of the bed tightly. Well, duh!? Of course you don't believe in Good and Evil, but that is one of the things that the dream shows. Your inability to take sides in the Moral Struggle over your Intellectual and Emotional Structure, for such is the Meaning of this Building, is what will result in your ultimate Downfall. Now, Dreams come with Messages. So what that you do not believe in Good or Evil, but when such a Dream tells you that you are wrong, does it mean you should persist stubbornly in your error even after such a plain warning and prognostication of your Doom. And then, about not having others interpret your dreams.... what? This is just the mechanism of Denial at work. Your dreams are unsettling and you DON'T want to know what your problems are. So far your Life is a working equilibrium... like any rum-runner or slavetrader of the past... and you prefer to leave well enough alone. Your rejection of Morality has been working for you, and you don't want to fix what you don't suppose to be broken. What the heck, why quit the Young Republicans now. So you don't want other people to look at your dreams and see what you know all too well what they will see, and suggest what you do not want to hear. But I am loath to give up entirely on your satanic attitude, since your dreams combine a sense of hope for you. Afterall, you are scaling these Stairs, and you are climbing these mountains. It shows a Moral Sensibility, although you consciously don't want to own up to, and yes, which you are ready enough to betray while in your dreams. But you may yet grow out of these weaknesses as you mature spiritually. And regarding the Symbolism of Mountains... it is a mixed message. I've had dreams of Mountains in the Context of the Spirituality. Mountains show Spiritual Aspiration, but just as your dream shows, the Higher you go, the Dryer it gets, and Spirituality as a Growth Process requires Spiritual Water. I had an important Dream in which I was shown that "The Peoples of the Three Mountains would need to be lead to the One Great Spiritual Water", and was shown a large lake, or sea, off to the South and East, closest to the South and East Mountain (there was also a North Mountain and then a North West Mountain). The Idea being projected is that even the Highest and Best of the World Religions today are undergoing something of a Drought, and they are anything but thriving. The Height of the Mountains may have connected them to Spirit, but it is the Green and Watered Valleys that will reconnect them to Life, in order to form the Working Synthesis that Religion needs to be in the World.

[djaio]

Originally posted by Leo Volont And then, about not having others interpret your dreams.... what? This is just the mechanism of Denial at work. Your dreams are unsettling and you DON'T want to know what your problems are. So far your Life is a working equilibrium... like any rum-runner or slavetrader of the past... and you prefer to leave well enough alone. Your rejection of Morality has been working for you, and you don't want to fix what you don't suppose to be broken. What the heck, why quit the Young Republicans now. So you don't want other people to look at your dreams and see what you know all too well what they will see, and suggest what you do not want to hear. what i mean is, i'm the only one that can really interpet it. both of us are subjective, but i'm the one that has the better understanding of my life, my mind and its symbols and attitudes. to most people black might mean evil, but to my mind it could mean something totally different. the subconscious doesn't think in terms of good and evil, right and wrong, black and white. those are distinctions humans tend to use. they're limitations. i'm not 'denying' your analysis using good and evil, i just think there's a deeper meaning than that. But I am loath to give up entirely on your satanic attitude[/b] ok, this is just stupid. lighten up, man. since your dreams combine a sense of hope for you. Afterall, you are scaling these Stairs, and you are climbing these mountains. It shows a Moral Sensibility, although you consciously don't want to own up to[/b] wtf? you're just assuming i'm not a moral person? wow. And regarding the Symbolism of Mountains... it is a mixed message. I've had dreams of Mountains in the Context of the Spirituality. Mountains show Spiritual Aspiration, but just as your dream shows, the Higher you go, the Dryer it gets, and Spirituality as a Growth Process requires Spiritual Water. I had an important Dream in which I was shown that \"The Peoples of the Three Mountains would need to be lead to the One Great Spiritual Water\", and was shown a large lake, or sea, off to the South and East, closest to the South and East Mountain (there was also a North Mountain and then a North West Mountain). The Idea being projected is that even the Highest and Best of the World Religions today are undergoing something of a Drought, and they are anything but thriving. The Height of the Mountains may have connected them to Spirit, but it is the Green and Watered Valleys that will reconnect them to Life, in order to form the Working Synthesis that Religion needs to be in the World.[/b] there was the gigantic ocean i jumped into at the end, which was the entire reason i climbed the mountain. i think that means something.

[djaio]

besides, mountains are always dry at their peaks.

[Leo Volont]

Originally posted by djaio besides, mountains are always dry at their peaks. There are the Snow Capped Mountains. I've had friends who have had dreams of being to the top of a Snow Cap, but so far it has not occurred to me. One such dream happened to a fiend of mine who was really very much a sensualist, but still very sensitive. He not so much exploited women as was exploited by them. The poor guy found it difficult to say no. One time in a Dream the Oracle Goddess approached him and pointed him toward a Snow Capped Mountain. I would guess that for him the Advice consisted of cooling down his susceptability to his bodily passions. But for most intellectuals and spiritualists such advice would be entirely unnecessary. I would guess there are very few real Don Juan's and Casanova's sitting at their Computer Keyboards and pounding out threads for Dreaming Message Boards. Whatever spiritual problems this membership may have in general, I can suppose they are safe from being too extremely sexually expressive. So the Theme of Snow Capped Mountains is not likely to arise very often here.

[djaio]

um, okay. my point was there is no "spiritual water" at the top of a mountain. that's a big part of climbing a mountain, a physical or spiritual one...you have to get out of the water, leave your comforts behind, risk your safety and happiness. anyway, throughout the dream i got the feeling i was climbing the mountain only so i could get high enough to take that dive into the ocean. that was the goal. in fact, i seem to remember there being a platform at the top one could jump off of. one thing i thought of... the ocean often symbolizes dreams and the subconscious. maybe that has something to do with lucid dreaming. it's interesting that i woke up while i was falling into the ocean.

[Leo Volont]

Originally posted by djaio um, okay. my point was there is no \"spiritual water\" at the top of a mountain. that's a big part of climbing a mountain, a physical or spiritual one...you have to get out of the water, leave your comforts behind, risk your safety and happiness. anyway, throughout the dream i got the feeling i was climbing the mountain only so i could get high enough to take that dive into the ocean. that was the goal. in fact, i seem to remember there being a platform at the top one could jump off of. one thing i thought of... the ocean often symbolizes dreams and the subconscious. maybe that has something to do with lucid dreaming. it's interesting that i woke up while i was falling into the ocean. The Ocean is too big to be Subconscious. I would say it was Collective Consciousness. It would also fit with the notion of having to climb the entire Spiritual Mountain before the Big Jump In. I would seem to fit into the Hierarchy of Spiritual Experiences -- first God Realization (the Top of the Mountain) and then Universal Cosmic Consciousness (the Ocean). Your Family Members also having been scaling the Mountain indicates that your family pedigree is a Spiritual One. You personally may think it quite fashionable to be nihilistically materialist, but this dream indicates that generations before your family was actively Religious, and you still seem to be covered by their accumulated Graces and Blessings. The Sins of the Fathers are visited upon the Sons, but inversely, so are the Blessings. Hopefully, you will be able to live up to what you have inhereted.

[toshirozawa]

lmao who is this clown ^ ^ ^ I found your attempt at sounding intelectual by using the most obscure and abstract words rather assuming. I believe he asked for a simple interpretation, not harasment. I rather enjoy the part of Barret. Long live Final Fantasy...w00t As for your dream, I found it pretty normal in my standards. You obviosly play video games, and video games can induce your mind to a point where you cannot see. When you play a game, you open the gateway to your mind, through the concentration and determination of playing, especially any FF game. I have had so many dreams that I can link back to games I have played. Im sure bits of your dreams are from a game you played i the past. If not, it's just a cool dream.

[Leo Volont]

Originally posted by toshirozawa lmao who is this clown ^ ^ ^ I found your attempt at sounding intelectual by using the most obscure and abstract words rather assuming.. "Assuming" Yes, assuming that I am speaking to other college educated people.

[toshirozawa]

For your information, I am well educated and attend university. There's a different between being educated and appying yourself appropriately, and just being a dick and trying to flaunt your vocabulary spectrum.

[realcrucial]

[Leo Volont]

Originally posted by toshirozawa For your information, I am well educated and attend university. There's a different between being educated and appying yourself appropriately, and just being a dick and trying to flaunt your vocabulary spectrum. No, you are applying reverse snobbery. You are playing how low can we go. You want to pretend you are defending the stupid masses from the cruel and tyrannical Upper Classes. But what you are really doing is exercising just as a distinct form of bigotry as any other. You wish to single me out because of my dialect. Why not Color or Race? Have you noticed anybody else singling out anybody else for their behavioral characterisitics. No, only you here are the bigot.

[djaio]

Originally posted by Leo Volont No, you are applying reverse snobbery. *You are playing how low can we go. *You want to pretend you are defending the stupid masses from the cruel and tyrannical Upper Classes. *But what you are really doing is exercising just as a distinct form of bigotry as any other. *You wish to single me out because of my dialect. *Why not Color or Race? *Have you noticed anybody else singling out anybody else for their behavioral characterisitics. *No, only you here are the bigot. wtf. seriously, wtf are you talking about? no one thinks you're the "cruel and tyrannical Upper Class." you're just some guy that takes himself and his psychospiritual Christian ideals way too seriously. the reason no one singles out anyone because of their race is because no black guys came into this thread and tried to explain my dream as an expression of my obvious fear of the ethnically superior Colored Man.

[toshirozawa]

Originally posted by Leo Volont No, you are applying reverse snobbery. You are playing how low can we go. You want to pretend you are defending the stupid masses from the cruel and tyrannical Upper Classes. But what you are really doing is exercising just as a distinct form of bigotry as any other. You wish to single me out because of my dialect. Why not Color or Race? Have you noticed anybody else singling out anybody else for their behavioral characterisitics. No, only you here are the bigot. You love hearing yourself talk too much. It's a pity. Go talk to the mirror, at least there you can have yourself listen to your stupidity. I'm done here.

[Leo Volont]

Originally posted by toshirozawa You love hearing yourself talk too much. It's a pity. Go talk to the mirror, at least there you can have yourself listen to your stupidity. I'm done here. Oh, yes, it would be too much for you to apologize. And why should I go off to talk in the mirror, when it seems to be you who are the one who must beat the retreat. Well, I suppose I must be satisfied with your self-consciousness that you were wrong, and your embarrassment that forces you to back away from here, but I would have preferred an apology. But perhaps that would have taken larger words than you feel comfortable with.

[djaio]

yeah, anyone have any idea what leo is talking about? i don't even know how to respond to his off-the-wall posts anymore. no one has to apologize to you for anything, man. don't be a little bitch.

[realcrucial]

this is a funny theard to read

[Inspirer]

Hmmmm, all this snobbery looks like fun, I think I'll try it. All you junior underlings try so hard while I intellectually tower above, behold and remember all that I say. In light of view that I'm way up here and the rest of you are way down there you should all be revering me on the spot and give praise. And now for some big words... filariasis, infusorian, jeepney, Leicester I'm so good!

[djaio]

don't forget ergo, inconcordantly and vis-a-vis.