The Journal

[sandlizard]

Cats Shape - Shifting Haven't been on for a while but have had a several dreams lately that center around a common theme about cats. The latest dream happened last night.... As I was dozing off I started dreaming of being in some kind of rocket ship blasting off into space... My crew were characters from the Muppets shows. Included were Grover the frog, and some other Muppets, like that bear... Gonzo? too.. Anyways it was vivid but strange Somehow the scene changed to a cat watching over a mouse hole or something... and about ready to pounce on any small animal that dared stick it's head above the hole... As the cat waited, he started changing a little... Could see human hair growing on his/her hand... Sure the human hair looked like mine... and as I came back to consciousness I was sure the cat was changing into me... The dream that started this happened a couple weeks ago... Never wrote it down but remember some details vividly.. I remember coming upon a lake that was overshadowed by hills.... It looked like a lake in my region of the country.. Went out onto the lake with a boat... Then dove in (to a whirlpool or something?) The next scene shows this house out in the middle of the lake... It was a simple kind of (primitive - hate to use that word) house.... Wooden frame, on platform supported by stilts (?) Windows didn't have glass in them... Inside was an animal, deer or cat (sure it was a cat)... The animal was shape shifting and metamorphosized into a man... Then the dream ended... There was some kind of dream in between these two which I am sure also included a cat... Curious about this.... This has to mean something if a cat image is coming up three times in a row? But what? Some new details about my current situation (thats changed a little since last I wrote) that might help include the fact that I have been student teaching all year... Am doing a second student teaching component this semester and the school is new... First semester I had a car wreck which made my life quite chaotic for a while... Any insights out there?

[sandlizard]

Here's a dream which seems intriguing that I am pasting from my dream journal. I can't remember the full details of it, so it seems kinda sketchy. I welcome any interpretations. Anyways, here goes: 8 - 20th dream Scenario 1 I can't remember this part really well, but I was in some kind of scene, a house, temple, etc. I was making mistakes, and messing up. Things were getting destroyed. It came to a crises point, where there were few choices left. So I let myself be killed, and died. As I lay dying, I turn to this lady who laid beside me. She showed me caring, tenderness, and compassion. She didn't want me to die, but I felt I had no choice, and died. As my soul was leaving my body I had a deep sense of shame, and failure. I didn't know where I was going. Felt like I was going to hell. Resigned to my fate, I said 'take me.' My soul started moving like I was on a conveyor belt or floating (without my control) I floated down this hallway of a motel(?) into this big executive room. There were three other people in the room. One lady was sitting behind a desk. A guy and a girl were sitting on a sofa. The guy had his arm around the girl. This was the same girl that had been lying beside me when I was killed. The act was reviewed. The guy and girl felt like I would have done better if she had been in the act with me as my partner. The judge busily wrote down these script improvements. They were planning for my next acting part. There was no shame, or guilt placed on me. I was surprised, as it seemed like they were analyzing some of the problems with the script and the scene, and seeing what they could do to improve my chances for success in the script. I was getting ready to start another act. Back to top

[sandlizard]

A couple months ago I had this dream. It was bizarre, so I wrote what I could remember. Have started keeping a dream journal ever since. Here is the dream content: 'Was traveling across the northern border. As soon as I got to the border crossing the guards insisted on seeing an i.d. identification. I had trouble retrieving the documents. The guards told me to relax. Then they all pulled guns on me. I became really anxious. The guards then started laughing and told me it was all a joke. Everyone of them were laughing as one of them said, 'It gets him every time.' Then they let me go through. As soon as I got to the north side of the border I noticed that the air was cooler. The soil was very rich. Everything was real green. I went to stay at this house and visited with the hosts. While visiting I observed a 'mechanized' whirlwind that was clearing a circular field outside the house. It was clearing them of old plants and debris. Then it planted the field with new plants. The crops were planted with a 'mechanized crate device. ' What was really wierd was the next day or week I saw several images of tornados in real life. For instance at the school where worked the students chose the theme of the tornado as a symbolffor their victory over rivals. One of the other instances of the tornado image in real life was the fact that my students wanted to watch 'the wizard of Oz' so watched the show with them. There were so instances of seeing images of tornados in reality that it was difficult to perceive it as pure coincidence. Although the tornado is a common symbol, I almost started wondering whether there was some kind of sinchronicity with my dream. Back to top

[sandlizard]

New Dream for journal Last night had dreams with the theme of water in them? In one dream I think it was raining.. Right before I woke up I had a dream in which I was swimming across a river, possibly the Missouri? The water was a muddy brown... It was flowing pretty fast. It seems like I would go under and disappear, then reappear as I was swimming. But got across(?) Then it seems like I was going to swim across again but possibly was fearful(?) As I drifted toward consciousness, I was in a boat that was traveling down the river... I think I was meditating about swimming again....

[sandlizard]

Author Korittke Lucid Beginner Gender: Joined: 12 Oct 2005 Posts: 14 Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 2:35 am** *Post subject: Whats with all the "..."'s and a new paragraph for every sentence. I don't feel reading that will be any good for my mental sanity. Author Muezza Lucid Student Ultharian Cat Gender: Joined: 20 Jan 2006 Posts: 49 Location: Beyond the River S Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 3:37 am** *Post subject: You have cats in your dreams turning into humans. I'm a human who wants to turn into a cat in his dreams. Dreams are strange like that, no? Back to top Author Message sandlizard Lucid Beginner Gender: Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 15 Location: Nebraska Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 6:20 am** *Post subject: Re The seperation of lines was just to help people in reading.... Hope it was more useful and less of a hindrance Back to top Author Message WaaayOutThere Lucid Scholar We're not in Kansas anymore... Joined: 26 Jun 2005 Posts: 32 Location: The Southland Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 4:53 pm** *Post subject: Cats shape shifting Hi Sandlizard, This is definitely one of the most interesting dreams I've heard! Lots of great imagery. I didn't know what a cat might mean, so I looked it up in my dream dictionary. It says a cat means "bad luck. Beware of a diabolic stranger who seeks to corrupt your world." The whirlpool is of course something that could suck you under. Since the cat turns into you, maybe the dream is telling you to watch out for yourself, don't be your own worst enemy? Don't dive into any whirpools? I don't know; I'm certainly no expert. I like cats and think of them as agile, soothing comforters. Maybe you need to bring out your cat-like characteristics and remain aloof yet agile in your day to day dealings.

[sandlizard]

Author Message Leo Volont Lucid Student Joined: 02 Apr 2005 Posts: 1730 Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2005 10:39 am Post subject: Dear Sandlizard, Your dream reminds me of the old theatrical adage -- "there is no such thing as a small part... just small actors". Your dream demonstrates the the Higher Dream Mind is willing to expand our role in our own dreams as long as we can sustain the 'parts' that are given to us. You know, that old show-biz saying really is true. Once a cast is chosen and rehearsals progress, no script is written in granite when it is seen that some characters are seeming to come alive. I remember "Roman Holiday", Audrey Hepburn's debut movie. They hired her because she was a good looking young woman, but beyond that the part was kind of thin as it started out. But when they saw what they got, they kept the writers working 24/7, simply to showcase her unexpected but dazzling talents. Anyway... back to dreaming. Your dreams point out the fact that dreams are creative endeavors. Ideally we are supposed to be the heroes of our dreams -- the stars, the leading men and ladies. And the better we are at what we are doing, the more our Higher Dream Mind will go to expand our roles and bring us bigger parts. Author Message Inspirer Lucid Beginner Gender: Joined: 14 May 2005 Posts: 160 Location: Fremont, California Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2005 1:08 am Post subject: I suspect that you have some problem with self defeat (and that many people do) as if by script, and these three people are parts of you reacting to the problem. Back to top Author Message Leo Volont Lucid Student Joined: 02 Apr 2005 Posts: 1730 Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2005 3:07 am Post subject: Re: Death, Resurrection, and Judgement in a three part Act sandlizard wrote: ...I was making mistakes, and messing up. Things were getting destroyed. It came to a crises point, where there were few choices left. So I let myself be killed, and died. ....There was no shame, or guilt placed on me. I was surprised, as it seemed like they were analyzing some of the problems with the script and the scene, and seeing what they could do to improve my chances for success in the script. I was getting ready to start another act. Oh, you should not let your moral guard down simply because the Judge of your Final Judgment does not morally pontificate at you. If He finds that you are a scheming and nasty villian, it is not his business to lecture you. But, guess what? Your next 'script' will be written for a scheming nasty villian, and then some. This Higher Consciousness will build upon the Role you created for yourself. But is that who you really want to be? Let's look at it Metaphysically. Within Modern Catholicism we have divided it up into several Intelligent Entities. The Judge of the Final Judgment is Christ. He will Judge. Apart from Religious Propaganda, He doesn't really care one way or another and is pleased to be dispassionate in giving to souls exactly what they deserve, which is more of the same that they had created for themselves. Then we have the Virgin Mother Goddess Figure -- Mary. She IS compassion and She is concerned. So there are powerful Spiritual Entities that do indeed wish for your moral conversion. But the Judge of the Final Judgment is not one of them. When you die it is suddenly too late. Your entire life can go down as an "Ooooops". Author Message sandlizard Lucid Beginner Gender: Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 16 Location: Nebraska Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2005 10:27 pm Post subject: Thanks for the insights. Both of you have some good quotes..... But how do you know when you are being too harsh of a judge on yourself? And when is guilt a healthy reaction that guides you to do better and does it become self defeating? We all make mistakes... Well, don't know what else to say. Author Message Awaken4e1 Lucid Scholar Teneo - Tui - Mens Mentis Gender: Joined: 22 Aug 2005 Posts: 929 Location: Orlando,Fla Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2005 3:18 pm Post subject: Re: Death, Resurrection, and Judgement in a three part Act sandlizard wrote: Here's a dream which seems intriguing that I am pasting from my dream journal. I can't remember the full details of it, so it seems kinda sketchy. I welcome any interpretations. Anyways, here goes: 8 - 20th dream Scenario 1 I can't remember this part really well, but I was in some kind of scene, a house, temple, etc. I was making mistakes, and messing up. Things were getting destroyed. It came to a crises point, where there were few choices left. So I let myself be killed, and died. As I lay dying, I turn to this lady who laid beside me. She showed me caring, tenderness, and compassion. She didn't want me to die, but I felt I had no choice, and died. As my soul was leaving my body I had a deep sense of shame, and failure. I didn't know where I was going. Felt like I was going to hell. Resigned to my fate, I said 'take me.' My soul started moving like I was on a conveyor belt or floating (without my control) I floated down this hallway of a motel(?) into this big executive room. There were three other people in the room. One lady was sitting behind a desk. A guy and a girl were sitting on a sofa. The guy had his arm around the girl. This was the same girl that had been lying beside me when I was killed. The act was reviewed. The guy and girl felt like I would have done better if she had been in the act with me as my partner. The judge busily wrote down these script improvements. They were planning for my next acting part. There was no shame, or guilt placed on me. I was surprised, as it seemed like they were analyzing some of the problems with the script and the scene, and seeing what they could do to improve my chances for success in the script. I was getting ready to start another act. First let me just state you’re the kind of person who likes “order” and does not like things out of their place. Your actions are causing things in your life to be out of order, and it’s driving you “nuts” You feel as though your decisions are making a mess in your life to the point you can’t fix them. (The House/Temple) There is a desire to reconnect with your purpose or your roots, or origin, and there is a limited amount time in which to do this, or your surrounding with be at the place of no return. (The lady) is a mother figure or your real mom, who is going through this time with you supporting you, but she can’t make to decisions for you (why she couldn’t go with when you died.) These things seem to have a legal aspect to them, where they can only witness your choices, and stand together with you. But they can not influence the judge. The notes which the judge wrote are instruction for you to follow, to fix these things in your life before they get to far out of hand (The guy and girl) are your parents. And the judge has given them the instruction for you to follow. You must seek them in your dreams.

[sandlizard]

Author Leo Volont Lucid Student Message Joined: 02 Apr 2005 Posts: 1730 Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2005 12:40 am Post subject: The Hohokam Tribe of Indian from in the American Southwest, who had a pretty good Neo-lithic Civilization, related to the Mayans, from the 8th to the 13th Centuries, thought that the 'Dust Devils', which can be quite large on a hot dry day, were Spirits... that the Devils were actual devils, of sorts. When one does Prayers or Mantras in Dreams, it is almost common to be taken up into some kind of a Vortex. I've been in very confined and rapidly turning Vortexes, much like your Tornadoes. But other have described a more expansive and gently upgoing Spiral of Energy. In your particular Dream -- the Mechanized Vortex refers to an Institutionalized Vortex. Sowing Seeds is an old Religious Image with which we are all somewhat acquainted. 'going North' refers to the separation between the Ordinary and the Spiritual. The Line is Guarded, but at the same time, it is not guarded. As soon as one becomes 'Spiritual', then all sense that the Border was guarded becomes a joke. The only Guard necessary to protect the Spiritual Domains from the unspiritual, is that very attitude of disdain of Spirituality which would not consider crossing that border anyway. Author ElijahJones Lucid Student Message Joined: 24 Mar 2005 Posts: 221 Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2005 5:22 am Post subject: Interesting, Its hard for me to imagine that dream archetypes exist at all beyond a direct cultural or personal link, there simply is no proof of it and no way to prove it, quite frankly. So since you are a person who has looked at various religions and traditions I would pick the dream apart. List every aspect, the important sequences and peoples and sort of ponder it for a while. If it is part of a sequence of dreams it is possible that the message is essentially the same as the other dreams in the sequence. The synchronicity part is interesting. But when we talk of coincidence sometimes lightning does strike twice. Recall there was man who was struck by lighting over 13 times in his life (guinness book of records). You are questing for an answer to an important personal question and the hardest place to look may be directly into the face of the truth. Someone is trying to tell you something. My guess is that someone is you. Youre travels have given you a perspective on America that is quite unique, in fact you have been somewhat marginalized by your experiences which is common but it is quite uncommon to ever go back. Much of what we do in America is very trite and meaningless, our form of Evangelical Christianity is almost solely an American invention. These things are troubling. And the way in which we feel superior having only been around for 250 odd years to nations whose civilized history spans millenium says something about us. Perhaps Europe is a place you would find more happiness? All this is meant to serve as point and counterpoint, not a dictation from on high of what your dream means, you must decide that for yourself. EJ Author sandlizard Lucid Beginner Message Gender: Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 17 Location: Nebraska Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2005 6:28 pm Post subject: Re: Somehow the end of this dream didn’t get posted. So am posting it again. ‘Tuesday, March 15, 2005 5:00 AM - 6:00 AM - Was traveling across the northern border. As soon as I got to the border crossing the guards insisted on seeing an i.d. identification. I had trouble retrieving the documents. The guards told me to relax. Then they all pulled guns on me. I became really anxious. The guards then started laughing and told me it was all a joke. Everyone of them were laughing as one of them said, 'It gets him every time.' Then they let me go through. As soon as I got to the north side of the border I noticed that the air was cooler. The soil was very rich. Everything was real green. I went to stay at this house and visited with the hosts. While visiting I observed a 'mechanized' whirlwind that was clearing a circular field outside the house. It was clearing them of old plants and debris. Then it planted the field with new plants. The crops were planted with a 'mechanized crate device. I then observed new shoots growing out of the ground. I turned around and looked around inside. Inside the house there was this giant round machine. The pot looked like a machine of some kind, almost like a still. I observed this guy putting 'greens' inside the pot. He took a plant stem out and held it out to me to light my ciggarrette (?)’ Here is a recent dream in the sequence with a bizarre coincidince with reality Wednesday, June 29, 2005 3:00 AM - 4:00 AM - Dream of Undead Frankenstein and another person who was undead (Dracula?) were at a celebration and were helping cook flour tortilla shells for salad bowls. It seemed like the flour tortilla shell bowls were burning up and turning to charcoal but when hostess brought them out of the oven they were still good and could be used. Somehow Frankenstein began discussing how he was different from other undead(?) He started his discussion by elaborating on these points, 'there is difference within indifference,' and difference within similarity' ? I woke up not remembering whole dream, but radio was playing an old 1960’s song, 'I finally died and the whole world started living.' Why did that song have to be playing at that particular moment? I am being careful with assigning too much value to coincidences. Still sometimes they make you stop and wonder. I do think there are cross-cultural archetypes. For instance Elijah had a vision of a whirlwind in the bible. But the meaning of the archetypal images may vary a little between cultures. That’s why it gets difficult to analyze the dreams. Still, I think there must be spiritual content in these dreams. Am just not sure of what the whole message is. Leo Volont Lucid Student Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2005 6:54 pm Post subject: Re: sandlizard wrote: But the meaning of the archetypal images may vary a little between cultures. That’s why it gets difficult to analyze the dreams. Still, I think there must be spiritual content in these dreams. Am just not sure of what the whole message is. Carl Jung ran hard into that Cultural Wall you are talking about. He turned in Studies in which his Data represented that his Study Subjects were effectively Culturally Pure -- that they had no notion of any other culture and so any cross-cultural Archetypes to appear would have had to be Archetypes from some Collective Consciousness. But with some subsequent digging, it was found that Jung's culturally pure subjects had actually been very well read and Cosmopolitan in their outlook and knowledge of the world and other cultures. It started a firestorm in the Psychological Establishment as hundreds of Freudians and demanded a general book burning of all of Jung's works. I suppose that Jung simply was growing old and didn't wish to bother with the impossible task of finding one Culturally Pure soul to study. Where can such a being exist anymore. We are fast becoming One World Culture in which any intelligent person can be relied upon to know a great deal about other cultures... enough to be able to draw upon other Archetypal References. Your dream ... your Frankenstein...was pointing out the impossibility of ever making a True Generalization. Generalizations depend upon establishing a preponderance of similarities within a logical set. We could hardly conduct ourselves in the World without using generalizations. Every choice we make is made using incomplete and general information. We do not think in Absolutes but from deductions made using knowledge that is no where near being complete. But your dream point out that we should not be fooled by the shortcuts we have been making into supposing that our Generalizations actually apply when considered at anywhere beyond the mere surface level. In Real Terms, everything is Unique. There is no perfect Horse, but millions of large unique animals that have much in common, but each has its own subtle differences. and Yes, I think the Living Dead theme came from the Radio Song. But your Higher Mind perhaps took the opportunity to speak regarding the effective Immortality of the Life Force, if not for individual souls themselves. Notice that Frankenstein was a conglomeration of those who had lived before, but were recycled into New Life. ElijahJones Lucid Student Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2005 7:40 pm Post subject: It seems you have decided that there is in fact a spiritual world and that these dreams do contain messages from that world. This is your choice. I have spent nearly twenty years on that quest during my lifetime and for now I do not intend to spend any more time on it. So I commend you to the four winds and hope your search is satisfying. As one human being to another, I certainly understand the hope of a reason why, a great beyond. But after 35 years containing many adventures and studies (accredited and personal) I find no proof that there exists anything beyond the physical universe. All that is percieved as supernatural is (in my opinion which is subject to change form time to time) a matter of humans trying to understand themselves and the world in which they live. The peace I enjoy is a practical peace, a happiness that I exist at all and an acceptance of those things that I cannot change about myself and about life. Perhaps in some way this is not so different from the sentiments of many religious people and spiritualists. Good luck, EJ sandlizard Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 1:02 am Post subject: Maybe this thread is a dead horse but I am interested in any references to tornado dream images that you've come across. For instance, what did you mean in this quote? Quote (Leo Volont) 'When one does Prayers or Mantras in Dreams, it is almost common to be taken up into some kind of a Vortex. I've been in very confined and rapidly turning Vortexes, much like your Tornadoes. But other have described a more expansive and gently upgoing Spiral of Energy.' Are these dream votexes that you have been in? Is there information on the internet about this image? Why is it such a common archetype? These are just some of the questions that come to mind about the tornado image[/quote] Come to think about it... though Vortexes of Spiritual Energy are common enough in dreams, from my perspective, I don't really remember having seen another reference to it in print or online. You see, I am an initiate of Kundalini Energy. In discussionate with other initiates of Kundalini Yoga, it was often reported that during dreams, the repetition of one Mantra or another would send one spinning off in either one direction or the other. Then there was the one time that I had a 'relationship' with this one New Age Sensitive who never just felt Energy, but always felt 'vortexes' of energy. She left me with the impression that vortexes of Energy were not such very rare things. Or, now that I think about it, maybe that was why she was dating me, so that vortexes of energy would not be such rare occurrances. Anyway, now that you had forced me to think about it, perhaps Vortexes of energy are not quite so common as I thought, except amoung those who are dabbling in the energy disciplines -- various forms of Yoga such as Kundalini, or perhaps the Chi disciplines of the Far East such as Tai Chi. Sandlizard Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 2:45 pm Post subject: I think this is more common than you think. I've been studying a little on my own on this stuff and the spiral motif is archaic. For example, Idries Shah mentions the whirling dervishes in his book the Sufis. Jung, and Eliade also mention it. I've just started reading Frye's the Anatomy of Criticism, a book in which he develops a structural critique of literature, and he mentions the spiral motif. He mentions the tower, the spiral staircase, the spiral cornucopia as means of 'ascent' in literature, and the whirlpool as means of 'descent.' Many movies feature spiral staircases, and fans. I think that all of these images of 'vortexes,' 'whirling dervishes, spirals, whirlwinds, whirlpools, and staircases have something in common and are possibly some archaic image of a mystical rite of passage of some kind. That was why I was kind of curious when someone mentioned on this thread that they were studying the tornado archetype. Thought they might have some more info on this image than I. Have you come across the Perrenial Philosophy of Aldous Huxley? Both him and Idries Shah mention the fact that throughout the mystical traditions of all religions there are things in common.......................

[sandlizard]

Post #1 DV Novice Group: Members Posts: 25 Joined: Jun 23 2005 From: Nebraska Gender: Here is a wierd dream I had the other night. Don't understand the full meaning of it. Maybe someone has some insight into it? Anyways, here's the dream: 'I Was driving down a street in a familiar city. Then I turned and went to this house (which was familiar, had been lived in by family members). The house was abandoned. Walked towards the back. There was a shrine behind the house (which I had made). It had figurines (idols, etc.) One image was a figurine of a middle eastern Maggi.... or an ancient Babylonian king..... The other image was of a Lizard like Godzilla or a dinosaur. I worshipped both images, and prayed to them. My family was quite upset that I was worshipping them. My brother even started fighting with me about my choices. Meanwhile the small Godzilla started moving, destroying, and eating things. He even ate the Babylonian priest-king image. My mom was really worried and took me to see a Native American shaman. He put me in a trance and performed some kind of curing ritual on me. He also told my mom that he knew what was in me, and my problems. I woke up from the trance and started asking him questions. (While asking questions we noticed a turtle trying to climb up someones pantlegs.) One question I asked was that if a parasite entered a body, was that evil? (at this point the dream shows a large worm or snake entering into a body). The shaman said yes. His answer seemed unsatisfactory to me. Then he left. Then my mom stated that he had complained to her that I wasn't doing things right. For instance I wasn't wearing my clothes on the right way. He told her that they would start dictating how I wore things and did things. I protested this course of actions to my mom, and as I protested I became aware that I was wearing my shirt on backwards. (the shirt had a picture of a chinese dragon on it, when worn backwards that picture faced behind me). I also had my shorts on backwards. ' Then the dream ended. DV Expert Group: Members Posts: 157 Joined: Sep 16 2003 From: Boulder, CO Gender: Wow, that's truly a bizarre dream with lots of stuff going on in it. At first glance, I notice lots of religious content, as well as some stuff about what others expect of you and what you expect of yourself. Have you had any changes in religion/God/spirituality lately? Also, has anyone been on your case about how you live? An example might be nagging you to get a job, or complaining of the clothes you choose. "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar" ~Freud Full Edit Quick Edit Leo Volont Jun 24 2005, 07:10 PM Post #3 DV God Group: Banned Posts: 3 183 Joined: Apr 2 2005 QUOTE(sandlizard) Here is a wierd dream I had the other night. Don't understand the full meaning of it. Maybe someone has some insight into it? Anyways, here's the dream: 'I Was driving down a street in a familiar city. Then I turned and went to this house (which was familiar, had been lived in by family members). The house was abandoned. Walked towards the back. There was a shrine behind the house (which I had made). It had figurines (idols, etc.) One image was a figurine of a middle eastern Maggi.... or an ancient Babylonian king..... The other image was of a Lizard like Godzilla or a dinosaur. I worshipped both images, and prayed to them. My family was quite upset that I was worshipping them. My brother even started fighting with me about my choices. Meanwhile the small Godzilla started moving, destroying, and eating things. He even ate the Babylonian priest-king image. My mom was really worried and took me to see a Native American shaman. He put me in a trance and performed some kind of curing ritual on me. He also told my mom that he knew what was in me, and my problems. I woke up from the trance and started asking him questions. (While asking questions we noticed a turtle trying to climb up someones pantlegs.) One question I asked was that if a parasite entered a body, was that evil? (at this point the dream shows a large worm or snake entering into a body). The shaman said yes. His answer seemed unsatisfactory to me. Then he left. Then my mom stated that he had complained to her that I wasn't doing things right. For instance I wasn't wearing my clothes on the right way. He told her that they would start dictating how I wore things and did things. I protested this course of actions to my mom, and as I protested I became aware that I was wearing my shirt on backwards. (the shirt had a picture of a chinese dragon on it, when worn backwards that picture faced behind me). I also had my shorts on backwards. ' Then the dream ended. The abandoned Family House shows that your Family has lost its Spiritual Connections with Heaven. Your building an altar is an effort by yourself to re-establish a link to Divinity and you take a two-tact approach. The Maggi Figure represented the Higher Religious Traditions -- Theology and the intellectually understandable Doctrines. The Godzilla was a homage to the Mysterious Divine Powers which are largely ineffable. The Godzilla Statue devouring the Maggi Statue shows that the Mysterious will prevail with you. The question of the parasite. The Way the Mystery Religions work is that one is somewhat possessed by the Divine Power, often represented as a Snake, or Serpeant. Kundalini Yoga is famous for this -- it is described as a snakelike power entity coming up the spine and through the spiritual centers. The Shaman and your mother. This indicates that your Mother will attempt to understand your Spirituality in its own terms. The Shaman is an attempt to understand your non-traditional views. and yet notice that the Godzilla and the Shaman are not of the same traditions. yes, there will be problems and misunderstandings. But everyone does seem to mean well. sandlizard Jun 28 2005, 01:04 AM Post #4 DV Novice Group: Members Posts: 25 Joined: Jun 23 2005 From: Nebraska Gender: Hey guys: Thanks for the interpretations. They corresponded to mine. I also thought that the dream concerned conflict. Just wasn't sure what kind of conflict. I found the last interpretation really interesting. Was reading a Krishnamurti book before going to sleep the night before, so I the spiritual interpretation resonates. Anyways, if there is any more feedback I welcome it. Sandlizard ElijahJones Jun 29 2005, 03:31 AM Post #5 DV Expert Group: Members Posts: 221 Joined: Mar 24 2005 This one is almost gone but I will give it a try. It seems too cluttered to me. Confused in its symbols, there is a little bit of Christian apocalypse and a little bit of indian mysticism and a little bit of Stargate SG1 in there. And at least a smigden of rebellion against norms (authority). I honestly believe that this dream was agumented by something you ate or some type of cyclic issue in your life and that whatever it means will be told to you again later in a more concise form. I also had the thought that you are wondering what is true about things spiritual, about life. You have your favorite possibilities in mind but you would be willing to listen if something powerful presented itself. I would be careful not to challenge authority to strongly, fighting against the dragon is something only the foolish try with haste. And since you insist on wearing you're clothes backwards you become an easy target for those looking to make an example. Best wishes, EJ Full Edit Quick Edit zwishenzug Jun 29 2005, 10:31 AM Post #6 DV Expert Group: Members Posts: 157 Joined: Sep 16 2003 From: Boulder, CO Gender: QUOTE(ElijahJones) ...there is a little bit of Christian apocalypse and a little bit of indian mysticism and a little bit of Stargate SG1 in there. And at least a smigden of rebellion against norms (authority).... If I may get a little nit-picky here, norms are statistical averages. Like it is normal to be heterosexual because that is the average orientation of most people in our society. Authority, on the other hand, is a "mechanism of social control." Authority is one means that a society keeps things in order. While this doesn't change your interpretation, I thought you might like to know the difference for the future. So, to sum up, if we're talking about societal influences there are four things to consider... Rights--things to which we are entitled (life, liberty, property, etc) Roles--things we identify ourselves as (teacher, doctor, student, child, etc.) Duties--things we are required to do (pay taxes, respect rights, obey law) Mecanisms of social control--things that enforce/influence the above (courts, police, peer pressure, stereotyping, etc.) -------------------- "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar" ~Freud Full Edit Quick Edit ElijahJones Jun 29 2005, 01:52 PM Post #7 DV Expert Group: Members Posts: 221 Joined: Mar 24 2005 I'm not sure I would consider that nitpicky, but then again my statement "rebellion against norms (authority)" does not imply that the two are precisely equal or at least I did not mean to imply that. But usually when a person rebels they rebel against all symbols of authority and norms are usually percieved as somehow related to those who find their authority by obeying them. When I talk about things that are not mathematically precise I always leave room for the blurry edges. I find no value in trying to characterize society or people or nature in precise terms because something always gets left out. Anyways thanks for the comments. As with all interpretations I believe they are subjective and only meant as helps. Only the person themself knows what it really means, this is in line with freedom. This is how I differ from many here who interpret dreams from books and dogma. To me a dream is a psychological message from me to myself. Others can help but the meaning belongs to me. Regards, EJ Full Edit Quick Edit sandlizard Jun 30 2005, 01:08 AM Post #8 DV Novice Group: Members Posts: 25 Joined: Jun 23 2005 From: Nebraska Gender: Thanks for the interpretations. I think you are all on the right track with your insights about the theme of conflict in the dream. That’s where there is some ‘objectivity’ within the interpretations. To help with the interpretations I think I should discuss more about the possible conflicts that could be reflected in the dream. 1) I am agnostic though I was raised in a Christian setting. 2) I have traveled to Asia and have a degree. I am interested in spirituality although mine may be slightly subjective. It may include cross-cultural elements. 3) I currently work at a school on a reservation in an isolated area. I live in a town outside the reservation that is ‘christian.’ 4) During the summer I am trying to work at summer jobs, but also want time for inward reflection, reading, contemplating, and writing. When I had the dream I was working long hours with little time for myself. So there was a conflict with my desire for inward reflection. Am not working those long hours this week so maybe that conflict is over. So there is a lot of material there for conflict. Whether that is what the dream was concerned about is still up in the air. Am interested in the methods of analysis that you are using. Is it Jungian? Why couldn’t a Freudian analyze the reptile figures as representing more primal needs? Why are they being analyzed as representing spiritual needs? Just curious? Anyhow, whatever the specific nature of the conflict is, I think you are right about the dream representing some kind of conflict with the social forces around me. I am still contemplating this dream myself. It was bizarre, and had a lot of content that was a hodgepodge of different images. It was like a New Age dream, even though I am not a big fan of New Ageism. I don’t see much connection with SG 1. I do not watch that show. I think instead, it would have more connection with Native American, and Asian images versus Christian Western images. Although I am still confused about all of the reptilian forms (Godzilla, and the worm snake) in the dream. I am still confused about all the content. So do welcome feedback. Thanks ElijahJones Jun 30 2005, 01:58 AM Post #9 DV Expert Group: Members Posts: 221 Joined: Mar 24 2005 Maybe it will help to lay out one paradigm of interpretation. 1) The dream symbols are symbol you have chosen so you know what they mean. In this case ask yourself why you recognized them look deep at it. look shallow at it. How might the lizard images be connected to your current circumstances? Might they be symbols that have meaning to you? Where they came from is not as impoartnat as what you think of them and the dream is you telling yourself about something or it means nothignat all. 2) The dream is sometype of communion wiht a higher plain. Someone else is trying to tell you something. In this case you should consult dream books and other sources until you find that person who knows who the hell is trying to talk to you and what language they like to speak. The first one accounts for 99.999 percent of all dreams in my opinion and experience. So tell us where did you first learn about the symbols? What do you think of snakes? Was it a special snake? Why was it special? When did you first learn about these creatues? Who taught you? Did you like them? What was happening in your life at the time? Keep exploring the possibilities until you feel something resonates or give up on it. If it is you saying something important to yourself you'll say it again in a new dream (usually). If it is someone else they must know you did not understand it. Perhaps they will also say it again. Either way it is a damn cool experience is'nt it? Regards, EJ Full Edit Quick Edit sandlizard Jul 1 2005, 12:55 AM Post #10 DV Novice Group: Members Posts: 25 Joined: Jun 23 2005 From: Nebraska Gender: Hmm: I am not sure of all of the symbolic overtones of the reptile figures. The turtle is pretty symbolic in Native American culture. I think there is a myth about earth being on a turtles back. Dragons are really symbolic in Asia. They usually are powerful and bring good things. One of my students was born in the year of the dragon and was really interested in it, and Asian myth (even though he is Native American). So before school was out I helped him find information about the dragon. I do have a t-shirt with a chinese dragon on it. It is green and the dragon is centered in it in orange. That was the t-shirt I was wearing in the dream. The (dream) shrine figure was a dinosaur (possibly a dragon)..... Maybe Godzilla(?) The snake (parasite) probably has overtones of the Eden myth. I like the interpretation of the shaman, Babylonian priest-king, and family symbolizing society. I think the best interpretation so far is one in which the reptile forms are in conflict with the social images. Still not sure of all of the symbolism of the reptile forms. Guess I will just have to wait it out and see.... ElijahJones Jul 1 2005, 01:50 AM Post #11 DV Expert Group: Members Posts: 221 Joined: Mar 24 2005 Now you seem to me to be someone who sort of feels that all religion is really more important as a cultural identity thing than any kind of statement of absolute truth. You are a little aloof and can be witty in your stand offishness. Sorry I had to take a stab in the dark. It'll work out for you, one way or another. Are there any areas in your life where you are considering or are standing against norms or other issues. Perhaps you feel you see a way to help the Native Americans and neither the elders nor the government are listening. it shard to say, I know that indians toady ahve the highest rates of suicide in the US. I feel horibble for the plight of Native Americans. If you want to keep throwing things back and forth on this I will keep coming back? Its sort of a trial and error thing, after a while though you can develop your own internal dream dictionary of sorts where things have clearer meanings for you. That is you know what you mean when you use certain symbols, its really amazing, because as smart as you are your subconscsious is still holding back insights that are even more amazing. EJ sandlizard Jul 1 2005, 07:28 PM Post #12 DV Novice Group: Members Posts: 25 Joined: Jun 23 2005 From: Nebraska Gender: Well, I wouldn’t say I’m super-intelligent, or else I would have this thing figured out and wouldn’t be asking for dream advice then, would I? I am basically a stranger so there is lots of stuff that is going on that you all don’t know about, and I doubt this site has the means, nor do I have the will for a thorough public psychoanalysis of me. However, I do think that there are absolutes in religion…… But, are archetypal symbols absolutes or are they culturally specific? For instance, I was looking up the symbol of the turtle on another website and it insinuated that the turtle had something to do with fertility. Now earth (Native American interpretation) and fertility (Euro-American interpretation) possibly may have similarities….. but then again…..? Then the dragon is viewed positively in Asian culture and negatively in Euro-American culture. Plus even within Euro-American culture there are the Freudian sexual innuendo interpretations versus the Jungian collective unconscious interpretations. So that’s where it gets all fuzzy….. especially with the snake…. Does it represent kundalini energy or something more primal? Since that’s all fuzzy….. the personal interpretation seems to be the best….. but within my personal repertoire of dream images there seems to be a mix of cross-cultural elements which are being weaved together into some sort of personal dream story. Again, obviously the main theme is conflict. The nature of the conflict is a little more vague. In a previous reply I discussed the conflict with summer jobs and my desire for contemplation time. There probably are bigger conflicts looming, or else why would I want personal contemplation time? One overarching conflict is what do I want to do with my life? I kinda fell into this present job. I grew up in a rural area near here. Then I went to college in the city and traveled to other countries in Asia. When I came back to America I lived in the city. Then I lost my job and couldn’t find another one during our recent recession and conflict in the Middle East. I moved back to rural America and found this job here. This will be the third year that I am doing this. I wouldn’t mind living in the city or even traveling again….. It’s not that exciting here. (I live in a small town off the reservation and commute to work there) And yeah, there are problems on the reservation… And I am not much of a hero to be the problem solver. So, I’ve been looking around, and interviewing….. But it seems like all the forces are keeping me here. My parents like it because I live close to them (after all when I was traveling, I didn’t get to see them for 2 years at a time). Plus, they think I am doing something good. Some of the friends I’ve made in the area don’t want to see me go either. Plus the jobs I have applied for are all turning me down so it’s half way through the summer and it’s looking like I am going to be around here for another year. Plus, I am not getting rich, and I don’t have a family or kids of my own……. Basically, it doesn’t seem like I am going anywhere….. Maybe it’s the beginning of a mid-life crises or something….. Anyways, there is one big conflict with the world, society, whatever you want to call it…………. Then there is the matter of my spirituality. I consider myself spiritual but agnostic, and maybe a little disillusioned…. Obviously, I’m kind of a weird bird for a rural area. There aren’t any Buddhist temples or anything here. You have only two choices, Christianity, or the tribal spirituality……. Which I like, but which also has to do with tribal identity, and I don’t want to be a New Age shaman……. So, to sum up I would say I consider myself to have a transcultural spirituality with some christian overtones…… I also would say I have a transcultural identity….. That is again in conflict with the world…. That most likely is one of the other over arching conflicts which this dream could represent. One more comment. I do think there is a spiritual dimension…… However, I am probably a little disillusioned with how it is utilized. I don’t think spirituality should be used as some sort of national or cultural identification…. We would all be better off that way…… But, like everything else we use it as a form of identity………… Well, I didn’t mean to get so lengthy, and add so many personal details…… But I think I’ve almost explained this dream….. Maybe someone still has insights though…… For instance, is the dream communicating some higher plan? Do the reptile figures represent some deeper conflict? Or is it just indicative of the personal conflicts which I am presently thinking about? It will probably make sense in time. ElijahJones Jul 1 2005, 11:27 PM Post #13 DV Expert Group: Members Posts: 221 Joined: Mar 24 2005 QUOTE(sandlizard) So, to sum up I would say I consider myself to have a transcultural spirituality with some christian overtones…… I also would say I have a transcultural identity….. That is again in conflict with the world…. That most likely is one of the other over arching conflicts which this dream could represent. One more comment. I do think there is a spiritual dimension…… However, I am probably a little disillusioned with how it is utilized. I don’t think spirituality should be used as some sort of national or cultural identification…. We would all be better off that way…… But, like everything else we use it as a form of identity………… Well, I didn’t mean to get so lengthy, and add so many personal details…… But I think I’ve almost explained this dream….. Maybe someone still has insights though…… For instance, is the dream communicating some higher plan? Do the reptile figures represent some deeper conflict? Or is it just indicative of the personal conflicts which I am presently thinking about? It will probably make sense in time. Ok good, On the psychoanalysis issue no on ehere that I am aware of is credentialed counselor or degreed professional in psychology etc. So there is sort of fine line that is walked in that the disclaimer should read "DV makes no claims that anything we say will help you and takes no responsiblility for your choice in taking anyone's advice. The moderators are not responsible for member statements in any way, legal or otherwise, every member bares full responsibility for their posts...etc." On that note lets keep going. So you admit that the symbols are in your dream because you have studied or looked into in some way the various traditions that might use them. Whether Freud or Jung or Christina or Shaman...who knows? Is there a deeper level of dream symbolism. I don;t know, I am currently initiating a study via an anonymous survey of DVers to look at the archetype of tornadoes. Personally I think all dreams are messages from you to yourself. I am agnostic (look at my signature) but that is not really a belief in the spiritual as muchas an admission that I cannot prove God does not exist. Neither am I trying, if I see some claim of the supernatural I like to try and investigate it rigorously but usually these things remain outside the realm of scientific proof. Now back to you, you are probably right that by looking at your current estimation of your life you explained the dream. What else could it mean? Are you hoping for a message from the divine about which way to go, why you seem to be sitting there? Very often when people have thesee dreams it is during times of searching for a reason a purpose for life. Many people I have seen then spend years on a quest to find the spiritual dimension to life and many again turn later and are dissapointed after they examine carefully various religions and find that something is still missing. So the question I would like to ask is, are you content with a dream life that is totally controlled by your subsconscious or do you desire a dream life that is connected to some higher or lower plane? I think this will determine whether you find meaning and direction in your present circumstances and it is a conclusion that only you can reach. Are there only two paths? Can a person begin to investigate lucid dreaming while still remaining agnostic? I dont know, sometime sI have had dreams that reflect very deeply my time spent as afundamentalist Christian. In fact my first LD went like this. I jumped up out of my body and was standing in our bedroom. I looked around and it was dark. Then through a gaping whole in the wall I saw a light over the horizon and it was a peaceful blue glow. I decided to step out towards it and then I woke up. Now in my mind and in the stories of many who have had NDE's that was not a light I wanted to get to, that was the other side. To many Lder's is was a reflection of how my subconscious world is shaped by my past. Well as I said I hope you will stick around and enjoy the forum. There are alot of interesting people here we would be glad to have you be among them. I hope your conundrum leads to a direction you are happy with. EJ sandlizard Jul 2 2005, 12:02 AM Post #14 DV Novice Group: Members Posts: 25 Joined: Jun 23 2005 From: Nebraska Gender: Yeah, I know what you mean. I am not interested in public psycho-analysis and realize that this is not the place. So just want to stick to the theme and the symbolism even though it's kinda difficult due to the fact that dreams are subjective. I do want to thank you for your efforts at analyzing this dream. I think it's heading towards the end of it's analysis. On another matter I am really interested in what you have to say about tornadoes as archetypes. I had a tornado dream a couple months ago and decided to keep a personal dream journal as a result of that dream. The present Godzilla dream actually represents a part of a series of dreams I had after the tornado dream. Actually I think I am going to post the tornado dream in a new thread, and if you want you can see what you think of that. It's all been kinda wierd. Especially the fact that I've had some coincidences or synchronicities that have corresponded with my dreams, especially the tornado dream. Anyways, am going to start a new thread on the tornado dream and see what you think of that.

[sandlizard]

Haven't been on in a while.... Also have gone through some life changes.... But still dream... Here is a a couple recent dreams that I have had that is part of a recent dream thread... Dream 1 Apparently, I have hidden my beloved in an old mansion. I go in search of her. I tear the place apart. As I call her, three women come down this stair case. I don't believe that they are who they say they are, and getting out my wand, I say za zoom, ba-ba-boom and turn them into practicing moslems (?) Dream 2 'My parents and I go stay at this old house. In the house, they go to a room near my grandfathers room (?) I go to another room that is distant from theirs... Then I receive an ancient text from an organization on ancient esoteric wisdom. The text shows how to send dreams telepathically over distance. I try it out. I try to send symbols telepathically to an uncle. Later, I discuss it with him (on phone?) He shows me what he has received. The symbols are almost replicas of what I've sent. My parents find out what I've done. They ostracize me and chase me out. I leave the village. (my parents are upset that I am not following organized beliefs) Then I receive this message from god. It says: 'The mind of god is a personal matter. It is not for any organization to possess.'