FIRST POST

[Jrels]

Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2004 10:42 pm Post subject: Speaking to Dream Characters I am very interested in speaking with the people you find in your dreams (only when lucid, that is) Anyway I rarely find myself lucid enough to sit down with a person in my dream prepared to ask any question I wish. I fact I've only done it twice. The first time I asked an old man what he was. I wanted to know if he was a creation of my mind or something else. He was very elusive with his response, he pinched his elbow with his fingers and explained that his existence was like that of the pinched elbow. I understood that when you pinch your elbow very hard you tend not to feel pain. The second time I spoke freely with a dream person was last night. I met a rather friendly character, and I was lucid for a while then finally mustered the confidence to ask him what he was. He was again very elusive. I asked him if he was human and he said no, then I asked if he was an animal and he said no. He then said to me that he was, in fact, a tree. In retrospect, I was rather dissapointed by his answer. It seemed to suggest that he was just a creation of my mind. But could it be possible that he was suggesting that he was sort sort of essence or spirit of a tree? After all, plants are "living" along with humans and animals. I then asked him what he thinks about, and he replied something like, "I think about everyone dying and leaving the earth." I then asked if he knew what happened when you die and left the earth, and he said no and that the idea scared him. I agreed. Now, I would like to think that the people that I get a chance to ask questions to in my dreams are somehow seperate beings from myself. A lot of times if I look a dream person in the eyes and become confrontational, I suddenly feel extremely uncomfortable so I try very hard to be friendly. So far I have not had any solid evidence to suggest that these people aren't just creations of my imagination. I have though, twice, encountered beings which I felt were much more powerful that myself. The first time was when I was lucid dreaming about persuing girls. I asked a character in my dream where I could find some girls and the face of this person distorted in such a way to suggest to me that I was looking at a real demon. Of coarse I was extremely scared and forced myself awake. The second time was during a lucid dream in which I was drifting in and out of sleep, and I was dreaming that I was walking through my house. During the times that I would briefly awake I really felt as though I was rushed back into my bed and into my body. Then at my bedside I saw a large and imposing figure which was composed of mostly bright light (he had no features). This being warned me about my wrongdoings in life and showed me what the end result was by inflicting upon me the feeling that my heart was being squeezed or constricted. I immediately forced myself awake. Again, I do not have a truely solid stance on whether or not these people or beings which I interact with in a lucid dream are all myself or if I'm merely interpreting these beings to have a visually acceptable human appearance (as suggested by the man who said he was really a tree). I would like to know if anyone else has posed similar questions to people in lucid dreams.

[nesgirl119]

So you finally decided to make yourself a DJ!!! Cool! Do you want to post in mine?

[Jrels]

Okay so here are a couple of recent LD's. I was attending a dinner party with about fifteen close family members. We were in a rather odd location, so I picked up on the fact that I was dreaming. After sitting at the table and eating for a few moments, I did something embarrasing and everyone began to laugh. Being lucid, I tried to deal with the situation. Rather than tell them that I was dreaming and that they weren't real, I just laughed along with them for a while. But after they stopped, I just continued laughing in in outrageous way so as to show them that they were overreacting to such a trivial mistake. Everyone was quiet for a moment, and then everyone applauded. More recently... I was in a large mall of some sort. I was in a rare state of high lucidity. I was totally observing everything. I looked down and noted what kind of clothes I was wearing. I wandered around the mall for a while untill I came upon this woman dressed as some kind of warrior vixen. She was being escorted around the mall by a group of secret service-like men. I noticed that her scantily clad outfit revealed a stange outward protrusion beneath her skin. It was like some kind of square panel. I looked at her in the eyes for a while and reached for the panel. Then the mall security saw me doing this and started to yell at me to halt, like they were going to take me into custody or something. I reacted by basically telling them that there was nothing they could do to me because I was lucid. They were not happy about it, but they understood and left me alone. I continued on my way. Later on there was some kind of banquet but nothing too exciting.

[nesgirl119]

So, now you know how to operate a DJ. I am so proud of you!!

[Jrels]

Thanks, nengirl119! Anyway, today I had a series of WBTBs. The hilight of them, I suppose, was that I made an attempt to fly. I've tried it many times before, but I've never had great results. I can only fly a few meters forward and a few feet off the ground. I've levitated objects and traveled through walls on many occasions, but flight still needs work I guess. Maybe I think about flying in LDs too rationally. Whenever I try it I'm always thinking: lets see how well my mind can create the sensation of flying. Perhapps I don't need to rely on the fact of whether or not my mind is capable of creating a visual sense of soaring high above the ground, and just know that I can do it.

[nesgirl119]

Originally posted by Jrels Thanks, nengirl119! Anyway, today I had a series of WBTBs. The hilight of them, I suppose, was that I made an attempt to fly. I've tried it many times before, but I've never had great results. I can only fly a few meters forward and a few feet off the ground. I've levitated objects and traveled through walls on many occasions, but flight still needs work I guess. Maybe I think about flying in LDs too rationally. Whenever I try it I'm always thinking: lets see how well my mind can create the sensation of flying. Perhapps I don't need to rely on the fact of whether or not my mind is capable of creating a visual sense of soaring high above the ground, and just know that I can do it. Wow! A flying dream! So cool! Feels great to soar in the air doesn't it? And no prob on that!

[Jrels]

I had a rather strange non-lucid dream a couple of nights ago. There were so many occurances that were impossible, but somehow I remained non-lucid. The dream involved me flying in a jet to modern day vietnam or someplace where the jungles had been ravaged by war. I was being led through the jungle by my older brother (who would have no such knowledge) and he pointed out a campsite. This "campsite" was a perfect square cut of of densly thick forest. The forest formed walls around this square, and I observed everything closely. Lately, though, I have been trying to observe the quality of the scenery in lucid dreams. I have to make sure not to stare so blatently at the quality of one particular aspect of the scenery, but try to observe it as a whole. When lucid, most of the time the scenery is not of a quality that matches reality, like shadowing and texture. So the non-lucid vietnam jungle dream may have had non-lucid aspects to it (i.e. me allowing the story to take me along with it) but I was still observing the quality of my surroundings in this manner. Last night's (or maybe more this morning's) lucid dream involved me out in my backyard attending a summertime barbique by the swimming pool. Soon, I started to show my family members at the barbique that I could travel through closed doors and fly. This attempt at flying was much better than before. I focused on a far off destination and was able to fly to that destination, but no further. The longer length of the flight allowed for more elevation as well. The dream ended with a rather innovative step for a dream character. I asked one particular person if another person was near by. They replied by saying something like "no they are not here... but since you know you're dreaming I guess they could be here if you wanted them to." I asked this person to repeat what she had said be then she began to skirt the issue (most of the time dream characters hate to hear me tell them that I am dreaming). When she finally repeated what she had said, this caused the dream to abruptly end. On a side note, I've also developed a theory that sometimes characters or objects in dreams may not always be represented by a visual presense but sometimes just the "idea" of that person or object might occupy "space" in a dream even inside a visual environment.

[Jrels]

So I haven't been studying my LD's as intently as I would like to in real life. I still have LD's very often, mostly early in the morning, but I hate to admit that I usually end up using them for trivial purposes. Most of the time, I am able the discern that I am dreaming without the use of reality checks, but a couple of days ago I just wasn't sure if I was asleep or awake. My LD's often take place in my house, so it makes it a little harder I guess. So anyway, I decided to do some reality checks. First I tried to put my hand through a window screen without breaking it, but this just caused the screen to bend inward as it would in real life. So I thought I'd try to read something, and then re-read it. I found a kind of brochure lying on the dresser in my room. I read the heading on the cover page, then looked away for a brief moment and read it again, it did read someything entirely different. I set it down and walked away. After only walking a short distance, for some reason I decided to pick up the brochure and read the heading one last time, and of coarse it read something different. I'll say this much, I can certainly maintain an LD for longer than I could a few years ago, but I really want to try doing more meaningful and less indulgent things in them.

[Jrels]

During a normal dream, I was in the company of some rather cretinous dream characters. They seemed have some sort of malicious intent for me, so I began to wonder if I was dreaming so I could really show these DC's who has the upper hand. So I demonstrated some of the abilities that I have in a LD. One of the cretins had a gun, and I told him to aim it at me and fire and that I would not be injured. He did, and I "felt" something a bit strange, but I think the bullet dissintegrated in the air or something. As I left these DC's, I was with two friendly DC's. I was telling the friendly DC's that the cretins weren't real, and they were fabrications of my mind. One of the friendlys said something like "Oh, so that means we're not real either then!?" He was offended. This started a conversation in which I was asking the friendly DC about what he thought of his existence. Unfortunately, I don't recall much about the conversation.

[nesgirl119]

Originally posted by Jrels During a normal dream, I was in the company of some rather cretinous dream characters. They seemed have some sort of malicious intent for me, so I began to wonder if I was dreaming so I could really show these DC's who has the upper hand. So I demonstrated some of the abilities that I have in a LD. One of the cretins had a gun, and I told him to aim it at me and fire and that I would not be injured. He did, and I \"felt\" something a bit strange, but I think the bullet dissintegrated in the air or something. As I left these DC's, I was with two friendly DC's. I was telling the friendly DC's that the cretins weren't real, and they were fabrications of my mind. One of the friendlys said something like \"Oh, so that means we're not real either then!?\" He was offended. This started a conversation in which I was asking the friendly DC about what he thought of his existence. Unfortunately, I don't recall much about the conversation. Oh my goodness! You were so close to having a LD! That is so cool! You will have more of them in the future!!

[Jrels]

Originally posted by nesgirl119 Oh my goodness! You were so close to having a LD! That is so cool! You will have more of them in the future!! It was an LD... It only started non-lucid... I guess that wasn't very clear.

[Jrels]

Last night's LD was not very exciting, although it did contain one event that I think was notable. Okay, so the dream began non-lucid. My oldest brother was aparently "seeing" an ex-girlfriend of mine (call her Katie) from a couple of years ago. I was very upset, but I think I dealt with it rather well. "Katie" was waiting in a car outside and my brother "Mike" was getting ready to get in and drive off with her. So I struck up a short conversation with Mike just as he was about to enter the car. At first I was just shooting the breeze with questions like, "so, how was work today?" But then I asked, "How long have you been F***ing "Katie?" I did not let him answer and immediatley followed up by saing "I would NEVER do something like that to you!" And let them be on their way. So shortly afterwards, I was in the house with my other brother "Don." I'm not sure if this is the exact point where I became lucid, or if it was before. Anyway, I told Don that this was a dream and that I was going to let him prove it to himself. I picked up a book from a bookshelf and held it up to him. I told him to read the title of the book, he did, and I turned the book away from him for a couple of seconds then showed it to him once more. I told him to read the title again (I never read the title myself) but he read aloud the same exact thing that he had read before. Slightly discouraged, I put this book down and grabbed another. I repeated the process a couple more times, but it finally worked when I put the book behind my back for several seconds. Regardless of this, I think the emotional content of the dream soon brought my attention away from lucidity. I just thought it was kind of cool that I let a dream character do a reality check for themselves.

[Jrels]

I havn't posted in a while, but I've had plenty of LD's since the last post. Unfortunately, though, none of them have been quite as interesting. However, I've mentioned before that I noticed the LD scenery to be not as crisp and precisely detailed as reality. A couple of nights ago, I was in a LD and I decided to examine the quality of my surroundings once more. This time, rather that abserve an entire landscape, I picked up a blade of grass from the ground. I examined this blade of grass, and it was indeed very realistic. Aside from that, I've been trying to get dream characters to admit what they really are. They have never offered me any evidence that they aren't figments of my imagination, so now I will suggest to a certain DC that they are a figment of my imagination. After this I will ask the DC to basically repeat what I said. I tried this with a DC that represented one of my brothers recently, and he did admit that he was a figment of my imagination. Immediately following his admission, I told him everything was okay because I will still treat him with the same love and respect as I would his real counterpart. I think it would be much harder to get such an admission from a random DC whom I've "never met" before.

[Jrels]

A recent LD has got me thinking about some new experiments to try in my next LD. This recent LD involved myself being part of a small group of thieves or secret operatives or something like that. Anyway, it happened that there was another group of people who wanted to beat us to the prize (I don't remember too many plot specifics). When my team began a gun battle with the other team, I realized that I was dreaming. I did not voice the fact that I was dreaming to any of the dream characters, but I invited the rivals to try to enflict damage on me with their weapons and I emerged unscathed. In the future, I want to try some more experiments where I will not make it obvious to any DC's that I know that I am dreaming. I guess I want to see just how far they'll take the charade when I offer logical reasoning or ideas to their world. I will not, however, be too obvious as in saying "shoot me, and I will be unharmed." I will ask them to account for the inconsistant and illogical occurances in the dream world. I would guess that if I carried this out to such an extent, the DC would just eventually admit that he isn't real. As well, I could only perform such tests on DC's who do not represnt people I know. EDIT: (The next day)... So I tried something like the experiment I was talking about. I was playing poker with a couple of dream characters, and I was lucid. Soon some sort of verbal quarrel broke out between myself and the other two players. Remaining lucid, I carried on an argument with them as I would with a real person. Eventually I wanted to say something to them to suggest that they had their own consciousnesss, so I said something like, "I guess you two are a couple of egotistical *jerks*!" There was silence for a moment, and one of them said "No they're not." It was as though I myself (or subconscious) answered in place of one of the characters. So, I guess thats about as far as I'll go with that little experiment.

[Jrels]

Last night's LD was kind of interesting. The dream started as a non-lucid. The dream involved myself and two other friends searching through the forest for a diamond. For whatever reason, we were eventually taken into custody by the police or the FBI. Being in their custody was rather luxurious as there was some kind of maid who accompanied us in room which resembled a family living room. This maid told me that she wanted to shave my legs... so she did. It was strange to say the least. I don't really remember how I became lucid, but eventually I found myself in a large open room with several people in it. Heeding my primal instinct, I walked up to an attractive woman and asked her if she would follow me to the restroom. She declined and gave me a sarcastic remark. People began to notice that I was acting rather brash, and I began to feel a certain resentment from the crowd. I then said, and I quote, "I am dreaming, f***ers!" Instantly the people in the room vanished, and I could feel the dream begin to fade so I tried something I had read about here at Dreamviews. I began to intensly examine my hands and although they looked a bit strange, this state of focus seemed to keep me in the dream. I eventually exited the building I was in and noticed there were a few vehicles parked outside. People were exiting the building as well and driving off in their cars. A couple of people invited me to join them in their car and said they could bring me wherever I wanted. I accepted their offer and we drove off down a highway. These people knew I was aware that I was dreaming, they understood that some people were upset with me for being lucid, but they seemed to want to help me. After a while I was looking out the window from the back seat as we drove along, and noticed that we were passing by a large mall of some sort. I voiced to the other two that I wanted to go to the mall. The driver said that it was alright with him, and he would look for a way to get off the highway. I quickly realized that I was not about to wait for this so I magically flew through the car window and began to fly towards the mall. As I flew away from the car, I could hear the two poeple in the car saying things like, "Wow, did you see that!?" I never got to enter the mall, because I awoke mid flight. Looking back, it was an alright LD, but I obviously fell victim to lust once again. Oh well, there will always be more LD's to experiment and explore.

[Jrels]

I woke from an LD just a few minutes ago. The scenario of the LD was not worth repeating, but there were a couple of noteworthy incidents. I'll get the less meaningful things out of the way first. During the dream, I was able to travel through glass windows fairly successfully. Once I was on the other side of the window, there were plenty of dream characters that witnessed me do this, but they acted as though it was acceptable and normal. However, I did verify that in order to be successful at such a thing you must be confident immediately when you decide to do it or else the false sense of reality sets in. I also did a backflip and landed on my head as a reality check. When I realized that it was painless, I had confirmed that I was dreaming. I know I would never carry out such a dangerous reality check in real life, but then again I have only once or twice ever thought seriously about doing a RC in waking life. At one point in the LD, I was talking to my mother. She was telling me that I need to get more sleep and to stop incessently watching the TV show The Apprentice, which I've never seen in real life. As I gave my reply to her, which was an insincere agreement, I was actually thinking to myself, "Heh, she doesn't know I'm sleeping right now." At this point, I became more aware of my physical body, but I was able to continue with the LD. Later on, I was in a room where my grandparents and my aunt were examining some valuable jewelry, and reviewing some paperwork. My grandmother told me that they discovered that some of their old jewelry was worth a million dollars. As I turned to exit the room, my aunt said something and made a kind of expression of dissatisfaction with her face. At this point, I stopped to think to myself about how genuine and real that expression looked. Sill in the dream, I concluded to myself that the expression looked so real because I was in fact replaying a memory of it from a waking experience. I mentioned these things because it seems that I am getting more and more able to be fully rational as I dream. For instince when I stopped to think about how the expression on my aunt's face looked so real if it was just an imitation of her made by my mind. It's almost paradoxal to make those kind of observations while still inside of a dream.

[Jrels]

Having the day off today, I decided to try to have a LD this afternoon. I was very aware of the hypnagogic imagery, so I soon entered a LD. The LD was simple, it involved myself wandering around outside my house. Eventually, I decided to try some techniques mentioned here at Dreamviews. First I tried out the verbal command statement "Increase lucidity now!" At this point I noticed that my surroundings looked very realistic, everything became slightly more bright but with less color contrast. Somehow though, I think the statement did act as some kind of lucidity boost. Later, I was becoming frustrated with the poor quality of my flying. I just couldn't get anywhere with any sense of fluidity. Thats when I remembered that Leo Volont had mentioned that he prefers to fly in the lotus position versus superman because it is far more effective. I tried it and, by God, he was right. I had never flown with such fluidity and momentum. I flew up higher than ever before, and it seemed like I was improvising the landscape as it streatched beyond the vicinity of my house. I saw strams and mountains where none exist in real life. I also experimented with variations of sitting positions as I flew, they all worked great and weren't anything close to the inept superman pose.

[Jrels]

My last entry was more of a beer fueled monologue than anything else, but this morning I had what seemed like several short LD's. Now, I'm not sure whether to call these kind of dreams WILDS or WBTB or what. The point is that I would maintain lucidity for a few minutes and then wake up. Once awake, I would make a conscious effort to keep my eyes shut and re-enter into full dream imagery. I am actually aware of the images as they begin to fade in through the darkness, but I do not feel any vibrations during this process. What is also a bit strange is the fact that I still had to do reality checks once I entered these short dreams. Although the initial dream imagery would be rather simple, such as a single object, I would always seem to eventually find myself in my bedroom. At one point in the dream I was in my room thinking to myself that this feels so much like reality, but I had to do a RC. I fooled myself a couple of times, but proved the dream after reading something from a peice of paper. At one point I decided to try to feel my physical body, and I was very aware of it's presence while I continued on in the dream.

[Jrels]

Yesterday's morning included some intriguing dreams. There is no question in my mind that these dreams were lucid, but my involvement in them was largely observational. Regarless of all other dream content, there came a point in which I was standing a few meters from my house. As I walked toward my house I looked up to the sky and noticed what, at first, looked like two people sitting on flying carpets, hovering above my house. I looked up at them and tried to make sense of why they were there. Looking more closely, I noticed that the carpets on which they rode upon where changing shape in a random fashion. Suddenly, small pieces of paper began to fall down from the sky, somehow generating from the carpet riders. I was overwhelmed by the great quantity as a few pieces fluttered within my grasp. I picked up one piece of paper after it had landed on the ground and made an attempt to read whatever was written on it. This particular piece of paper had what seemed like biblical scripture written on it, followed by a reference such as "John 1:1" or something like that. I cast it aside and grabbed another piece as it fell from the sky. This second piece read, "create her image." Rather strange... If this were some kind of message from my subconscious, it doesn't amount to a whole hell of a lot. Biblical scripture, I can understand, as Christianity has been my main source of religion, living in the USA. But, "create her image," seems to be a suggestion for me to make an attempt at 'summoning' one particular female character whom I had loved in the past. Such action would be fruitless, and counter-productive, so I have to say that was a rather poor suggestion from my sub-conscious. After all, though, I did rather enjoiy this little experience. Even as I was "there" and about to read these pieces of paper as they fell from the sky, part of me was thinking to myself, "I wonder what I'll make these things read." Perhaps I was being too analytical, but I cannot help but doing so. When I am lucid, I make an effort to scrutinize all of the dream content to verify whether or not all of the content originates from my own singular mind source. So far, it has, but then again, I've always felt that lucid dream content is a product of our waking expectations.

[Jrels]

I found myself trying to talk with my seven month old niece. I told her to say hello, and she did. I then started to ask her yes/no questions which she asnwered correctly. This was all quite surprising so I asked my brother, her father, if this was a dream. He said that it was not, so I told him that I would make certain by reading something. We were indoors, so I walked over to the cofee-table and picked up a piece of paper which appeared to be a flyer of some kind. I slowly and carefully read the heading. The words made sense to me, so I did not become lucid. Later on, I did some more talking with my niece. There were other family members around, and it appeared as though we were celebrating a holiday. I was discussing with my parents how amazing it was for her to be speaking so well. I asked my parents if this was dream, and my mother said it was not. At this time, I tried to "feel" for my real body. I became aware of my physical self within this dream, so I told my dream-parents that they had lied to me about this being a dream. I asked them questions like, would this situation would happen in real life? The dream ended not long after this point without any answers.

[Jrels]

As is usual, I have endured a good handful of lucid dreams in the days which have past. Although, more recently, I remember speaking to some dream characters in the midst of lucidity. I was very much aware. During this LD experience, I began to feel what I can only describe as facial vibrations. These vibrations felt all too muscular, yet the frequency was overwhelming. What, on earth, are these vibrations?

[Jrels]

So far, in my journal here, I've only written down lucid dreams. Lately, though, I haven't had very many lucids at all, so I'll try posting a few non-lucids in order to improve recall. Hopefully this will lead to more frequent lucids. First, I vaguely remember driving around in a car with my friend, Ling, whom I had met IRL at a nearby college. I can't remember if there were more people in the car, but "we" dropped Ling off at her college. Later on, the setting of this dream somehow changed into my old highschool. I was a student again, and I found myself talking to another student in between classes. I can't remember if this student was someone from real life, but the conversation was very "far-fetched." He was telling me that he was involved in some covert government dealings, and he needed my help. He asked me to go to the gymnasium and gather whatever information I could for him. I went to the gym, it was dimly lit and nobody was there. I walked around the perimeter and was starting for the exit when I heard some voices from the other side of the door. I hid behind a half-wall and listened as two "teachers" were conversing about a boat shipment of explosives. Once it was safe, I made my way to the study-hall where I sat at a computer. I used this computer to gain access to an internet search engine. I keyed in some key phrases from the conversation which I had just listened in on, hoping to dig up some more info before I reported back. Coincidently, sitting next to me was Ling. I knew that she too was somehow involved with the "covert operations." I could see that she was feverishly typing away, and working several different applications on her PC which had caused it to freeze. Without hesitation, she turned herself to my PC and was about to begin to use it when she noticed what I had typed into the search bar. I knew I could trust her so I started to tell her who I was working for. She stopped me before I could get more than a couple of words out and told me to write her a note instead. Just as I had begun to write, I was woken by my brother who had come in my room to ask me something. I have only slept for four hours, and I think I would have otherwise forgotten all of this if I had slept for a few more hours, as I am sure there would have been plenty more dream content to follow.

[Jrels]

[Jrels]

I still have not had a LD for quite some time now. Each morning, though, I take time to reflect upon what I had just dreamed. I'm going to try to see how much of the dreams I can remember in hopes of bettering my recall. I remember a dream in which it was summer and I was out at my parent's camp house by the lake. Strangely, some old friends from high school had showed up there. It was Sarah and her sisters, and a couple of others. They started to use the phone, and wanted me to talk with whoever was on the other line. Now that I am thinking about it, I remember I did have a short LD earlier in the week. I did some flying, but mainly I tried to exercise my influence on the dream imagery. Whenever "I" consciously try to create dream imagery, I am left with little to no imagery at all. The dreaming mind and the conscious mind almost seem as though they are separate entities, each with it's own way of experiencing the world.

[Jrels]

During my last couple hours of sleep, I would periodically wake for brief moments, only to glance at the clock and fall back asleep. Each time this happened, I would enter into a new dream scenario. One instance, I was at my place of work. I was making my way toward the exit as I heard my Aunt speaking to someone on the telephone. She was giving praise for some kind of prescription.drug she was taking. I remember her saying something like, "It is so wonderful, it is like having someone else in your head whispering to you." I stayed to listen some more, but I'm not remembering it well. Later on, I had a moment of lucidity. I was with my brother in the old room that we used to share as kids. I was gazing out the window into the grass field. I noticed some wooden structures standing in the field where none ever existed in real life. Speaking to my brother, I said, "This is a dream!" My brother admitted that it was a dream, but he did not falter in his self composure. He just laughed a bit, and agreed. Lucidity didn't last very long, probably due to the casual nature of the reality check.