astrology...

[wombing]

yes, before i am flooded with posts telling me all about how astrology is bullshit, psuedo-science, and all the rest, please hear me out recently i have been interested in ascertaining whether or not there is any credibility to astrology. i could really care less whether there is or not, but find it to be an interesting topic. i performed a little experiment some time back (about a year or two) where i gathered the birthtimes of a small group of friends. we had all been spending the majority of our time together, and had gotten to know each other well. computer-generated natal (birth) charts were created for free at www.astro.com. this site and its horoscopes were chosen because: 1. the jungian psychologists responsible seem reasonably intelligent. 2. the charts are generated by a computer program which has been programmed to asign specific characteristics (in modern psychological terms) to various astrological aspects. no mumbo jumbo, just fairly explicit interpetations. 3. it is easy, and nobody has to actually learn how to draw natal charts the experiment went like this. i gathered everyone's birthtimes (to the minute), and generated the horoscopes. those who are familiar with astrology know that the most important, prominent aspects are the sun sign (newspaper horoscopes), moon, and ascendant (astrological sign on the horizon at the moment of birth), along with any conjunctions which stand out. so, i distributed readings to this small group of friends (most of whom thought astrology was bullshit). we all read them, and tried to match the right person to the horoscope we thought described them best. we also had a second choice on each one. when we looked afterwards, we found that the majority of the 1st or 2nd choices were correct. there were eight of us in the experiment, including myself (i got someone else to print out the charts so i could participate in an unbiased way). what was most interesting was that the two people who we all agreed had the strongest personalities were guessed with 100% (both received 8 number one matches, including their own guess). so, i wish to perform a similar experiment with users of this forum (seeing as we have a general idea of what the regulars are like). i am curious as to whether the last, very small experiment was just a fluke or not. i feel the room for error is much greater, as in all truth most of us are aquaintances moreso than close friends. prominent aspects of our personality may be completely unknown/unmanifest on this forum. nonetheless, i think it'd be a fun experiment. if you wish to participate, please PM me your birthdate (day, month, year, and minute of birth, as well as your location of birth.). unless all these are given you will not be included, as supposedly all are neccessary for an accurate natal chart. obviously i will not divulge your information to anyone else in case anyone is interested in the two people who were guessed with startling accuracy, below is a description of their personality, followed by their natal chart. # 1- was highly political. a socialist, and activist. he loved nature and camps, hikes and canoes. thoreau is his hero. he talked often of his family, and idolizes his brother, with whom he had a happy childhood. he was very stubborn, and would get extremely animated while denouncing capitalism or some other touchy subject, arguing for hours, yet would be extremely amiable the rest of the time. Sun in Libra, Moon in Aquarius These astrological positions may combine to provide you with a sunny disposition. Because you are so much at peace with yourself, you direct your thoughts toward understanding the entire human race. You are the humanist par excellence - equality, liberty, and fraternity" is your motto, and this is not just a phrase for you. You dislike pomp, artificiality and privilege, and are drawn to what is modest, simple and natural in life. The total picture is of an extremely well-integrated individual. You probably had a happy youth and as a result will enjoy many healthy relationships. In love you play the role of a gardener, tending to the needs of your love partner. Ascendant in Sagittarius, Jupiter in the Ninth House At the time of your birth the zodiacal sign of Sagittarius was ascending in the horizon. Its ruler Jupiter is located in the ninth house. Sagittarius rising denotes lives which are very dualistic; situations come and go as if divided into two sides - success and failure. If you are able to raise the interests of your mind from common and trivial things to more profound subjects, your intellect will become very philosophical and attracted by law and peace, and it will be more intuitive than rational. In any case your life will be colored by impulsive and rather stubborn tendencies on your part, creating some inclination to go to extremes, During the course of your existence you must try to develop intuition and human understanding so that you may be in a position to assist other people with your advice. Sagittarius gives you a rather strong love of nature and makes you somewhat extroverted, demonstrative and passionate, falling in love frequently and without reservations. You are an intellectual, an intelligent person who has been fortunate enough to be granted also a good development of the emotional functions. Your romantic life will be intense and varied. Your object of love may find you difficult to understand. In one aspect you will appear as passionate and energetic but because of the mutability of the sign you will also have an opposite tendency that will lead you away from involvement in the love affair and the latter impulse will be caused by a more inner trait, which is personal freedom. Generally speaking, the sign of Sagittarius will incline you to exist in environments in which your physical body, emotions and thoughts are allowed total freedom for development. On a higher intellectual level you may find yourself inclined to dwell in the deep complexities of philosophy, metaphysics, religion and law. You are versatile enough to study more than one discipline simultaneously not forgetting to keep your body in physical movement, since you require both intellectual and physical exercise. Depending on your social level, this position is ideal for a religious or philosophical person. However, if the cosmic condition of Jupiter is not satisfactory. You may become inclined to sectarianism in religion or perhaps ardent materialism. This position is a good hint to success obtained through travelling in foreign countries. It also gives excellent prospects in connection with legal affairs. Neptune Conjunct Ascendant The conjunction of Neptune to the Ascendant shows that you are very sensitive and perhaps psychic. Your grip on the real world is loose; you need to grasp it more firmly. You are so physically sensitive to the injustices you observe in society that they can easily make you ill. Because your environment has such a powerful effect, you should try to make some contribution to relieve your anxieties about allowing these negative conditions to exist. You are sympathetic toward the oppressed, understanding of the emotionally disturbed, and forgiving to those who seem guiltless in their transgressions against society. You easily become distraught over conditions you are powerless to do anything about, and your feelings of guilt and failure can make you withdraw into a world that is safe from responsibility. You should associate with people who have their feet on the ground to compensate for your aimless wandering temperament. There is a great need for your sympathetic understanding, and you do not have the right to turn down anyone who extends a hand for help. Moon in the Second House The Moon was found in the second house at the time of your birth. Your business dealings and means of income will consist of a multiplicity of activities where you must relate to many people. The position is generally good. Occupationally, you are going to be inclined to pursue money through popular activities. In any case, expect a fortune which holds variation and fluctuation. Try to orient your monetary dealings to the general public for you possess the ability to succeed when in touch with the popular masses. Venus in the Ninth House Venus was found in the ninth house at the time of birth. Your mind appears as very adaptable, gentle, peace-loving and tactful. This position indicates that the secret for your ability to reach a state of harmony and emotional balance may come through the use of your higher mental powers. You have been born with an exquisitely refined, artistic mind which has a very subtle appreciation of all that has to do with culture. Your disposition is kind, congenial, gentle and sympathetic and you have a natural ability to assist other individuals. This position gives you much social intercourse with intellectual persons and success derived therefrom. Merely minor disabilities will affect you in your intellectual endeavors. The worst that could happen would be an overly inquisitive, indecisive nature that never seems to be satisfied. However, you have within you the ability to avoid these psychological obstacles. # 2-was very friendly, and liked by everyone. she had a charm about her which made you like her instantly, and an infectious laugh. she was caring and compassionate, and though intelligent, didn't place too much value in intellectualism, debate, or science. more interested in painting, photography, and music. before the experiment i remember thinking she could be summed up with the phrase "free spirit". she was rather naive, and trusted everyone. for instance, she was very attractive, and yet couldn't see that all the males who paid her so much attention were looking for something more than friendship she had her fair share of "paranormal stories", and was naturally sensual. Sun in Libra, Moon in Leo You have a gift for synthesis, for reducing multiple problems to one concept in your mind. With this power for concentration and unification comes a desire for a position of authority. Your Moon and Sun combination makes you a romantic - not in the sentimental sense, but in the sense that you see yourself as a heroic person. You may feel that you are not bound by the laws and dictates of society. This sense of freedom, too, leads you to adventure and to plunge enthusiastically into many escapades. Your proud carriage and dignity support your self-image, but when your sensitive pride is ruffled, you are resentful. Anger is your first reaction to adverse criticism, but when you have calmed down you see the truth of what has been said. Outwardly you are gay and have a sunny disposition that warms others. This is especially true in love, and you put your whole heart into your affections. Your trusting nature makes you totally unsuspicious of others. You know you are to be trusted, and you view others in the same light. Ascendant in Scorpio, Mars in the First House At the time of your birth the zodiacal sign of Scorpio was ascending in the horizon. Its ruler Mars is located in the first house. Your life will be marked by your shrewd, secretive, obstinate, clever, and reserved disposition. You remain an enigma: with these traits, your life events could be either very tragic or very fortunate. To which category of Scorpio do you belong? There are two types, the extremely emotional, attracted by those pathological aspects of biological relationship, or the highly mystical, concerned with spirituality. You are a person of extremes, very sensitive and desirous of attachment. There is some attraction to the occult or to psychic phenomena. You are active in the sense that there is a psychological struggle going on inside you between the positive and negative poles-those of affirming and satisfying or rejecting and repressing. You are very intense in your feelings and remain passionately attached to the person you love. Similarly, when you dislike someone you are very fixed in that feeling. However, there is room for optimism in that: whatever type of Scorpio you may happen to be, there exists a desire deep in your inner self for psychic regeneration. At some point in your life, after the occurrence of a major dramatic event that will affect you deeply, the goal and entire expression of your ego may alter entirely. The intensity and profundity of your passion, however, will always be constant. You have a tendency to go into the shadows and secretly plan the course of action you will take, reluctant to let others know the exact nature of your mood or feelings. In your sexual affairs you are full of passion and strong attachment. Exert more control over your passions; don't be so resentful of others. Use your strong will and character for favorable and beneficial things. You have a strong inclination to be involved in medicine, perhaps even surgery. You are attracted by research and investigation in general. You have an ambitious nature and are always eager for pursuit, whether for constructive or destructive goals. You can be tricky and cunning, passionate, inventive, clever, resentful and astute. Your disposition is a little deceitful and quarrelsome. On the positive side, there is a pronounced liability for intellectual research and to conduct yourself effectively in positions of authority. Uranus Conjunct Ascendant You have a personal chemistry that never fails to stimulate people to be friendly toward you. No one should feel any discomfort with you because you project yourself freely and honestly. You relate easily to all types of people and are friendly to everyone, regardless of their social status. Concerned primarily with the future, you are eager to participate in the development of a higher consciousness, which will be the nucleus for the greater awareness of man. Moon in the Ninth House The Moon was found in the ninth house at the time of birth. Your higher mind has the potential to expertly reflect the teachings of elevated knowledge that you may receive throughout your life. You will have an ability to quickly adjust to varying conditions. You are endowed with a clever and resourceful imagination, and a mind which is receptive to ideals, higher thoughts, and perhaps even metaphysical matters. Throughout life you are going to solve many critical situations by your ingenious and highly inventive mind which has an abundance of new and humane plans and ideas. Note: The Moon is technically near the end of house 8 and is therefore interpreted in house 9. Venus in the Tenth House Venus was found in the tenth house at the time of birth. You will appear as a person who seeks harmony, inclined as you are to observe the aesthetic value of all things in life, to engage in artistic activities and to possess all that is lovely and beautiful. You have sufficient potential to achieve success in life, especially if your occupation is artistic or musical. Much of your success is a consequence of applied interest and hard work; you posses merit and ability, and your congenial, intelligent manner produces a very exalted image. In any case, there are very good possibilities for the acquisition of some social distinction, a good reputation and financial success at some period of your life. . hope some of you participate..it should prove to be fun regardless to see who gets matched with certain portraits... 8)

[wasup]

There was also an experiment that these people were given random astrology horoscopes and they thougt it applied to themselves even though it wasn't their "sign's reading..." (I don't really know the terms).

[wombing]

Originally posted by ataraxis There was also an experiment that these people were given random astrology horoscopes and they thougt it applied to themselves even though it wasn't their "sign's reading..." (I don't really know the terms). yes, i believe i know which study you are referring to. if it is the same one, i wasn't very impressed with the method they used. without a way for the participants to make a comparison between their actual horoscope, and different ones, those experiments seem fundamentally flawed. i mean, one of the biggest arguments against astrology is that "we all possess a mix of basically any psychological traits imaginable. one can see themselves in any birth chart". i agree. but people also see themselves more in certain charts. which is why it would be all the more impressive if people (and their friends) could consistently pick out the most fitting natal chart, and have that chart be their actual astrological profile. that is why i was so intrigued by the experiment my friends and i executed. care to submit your information ..i would hope you trust me by now...it would be pretty sneaky for me to spend hours and hours on this forum pretending to learn lucid dreaming only to be secretly working up to international identity theft it would be good to have some hardnosed skeptics on board..

[Peregrinus]

Originally posted by wombing it would be good to have some hardnosed skeptics on board.. I'm guessing that I qualify under that. I'm game to try almost anything that won't kill me, so you can use my info in this experiment. If you get enough people on board [shameless plug] you could link this thread into the Research Forum [/shameless plug] and then post three separate profiles for each participant - their profile and two others created from the birth info of other participants. Have each participant pick which they think is most accurate. 33% of people selecting their personal profile would be chance, although unless you get a lot of people to participate or have an accuracy way above 33%, the results probably won't be "statistically significant" under the accepted definition. But since you're not planning to publish the results in Nature or anything, getting an accuracy above 50% would be pretty impressive. Also, the time of year in which children are born could affect their personality without necessitating an explanatory mechanism of planetary alignment or unknown physical forces. It's well documented that people undergo physiological and psychological changes with the seasons for reasons both environmental and societal (for instance, people tend to be more quick-to-anger in the summer as well as having more opportunities for travel and meeting other people - hence the typical summertime increase in the crime rate). The activities and personalities of both parents and other human influences as well as the activities in which a newborn child could participate varies somewhat by season, and these differences in earliest memories and experiences could potentially cause different personality traits to become slightly more dominant than others in a way which is independent of individual upbringing. Just a thought.