Global warming

[wasup]

There's this movie coming out (though I'm putting this here instead of entertainment becuase of what the thread is about...) about global warming. The trailer is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUiP6dqPynE What do you guys think about it? I kind of doubt people will stop this until it's effects are actually really taking place....

[Courtney Mae]

Because our society depends so much on fossil fuel powered cars, there will always be emission, that will always contribute to global warming, until, as you said, the effects will be taking place. Then, I imagine, there will be a hurried need for hydrogen cars, or another alternative to fossil fuels. But even so, it would take a tremendous amount of time and money for everyone (or the majority) to convert to vehicles with lesser or no harmful emmisions. There are millions upon millions of people in the US alone that have one or more gasoline-powered cars. It would be an impossible task to even get half of these people to convert. Chances are, these cars, or alternative fuel sources would cost a large amount of money, and the cost would be a problem for alot of people. Bottom line, most of modern society depends to heavily on fossil fuels, both in cars, factories, and many other areas. Considering these are the majority of the problems (of my knowledge) that are contributing to global warming. I don't think we'll be coming to any sort of resolution anytime soon. (btw, I couldn't watch the video, so I really hope this is relevant)

[boldtypespark]

Originally posted by Courtney There are millions upon millions of people in the US alone that have one or more gasoline-powered cars. Thats only the start, with all the people in japan and china now wanting cars. Its going to get worse... Alot worse, before I die there are going to have to be some big changes made.

[Howie]

Ouch. What Courtney & Celoude have said are true. And it seems that even though there were many government committees and such who could for see these things comings it is as if they just now are realizing that these effects snowball. The larger the problem the faster it becomes an issue. They seem surprised that this global warming process is occurring at a faster pace than originally thought. And will continue to do so.

[Courtney Mae]

Originally posted by Celoude Thats only the start, with all the people in japan and china now wanting cars. Its going to get worse... Alot worse, before I die there are going to have to be some big changes made. Mmhm. The government should really start making changes now, although it'd be hard, like I already said before. We depend far to heavily on oil. Far, far to heavily.

[mongreloctopus]

i'm just waiting, comfortably out of the path, for this coming years hurricanes to demolish the east coast of america. that won't change anything, i'm sure, but i always like to see a little retribution

[Courtney Mae]

Originally posted by mongreloctopus i'm just waiting, comfortably out of the path, for this coming years hurricanes to demolish the east coast of america. *that won't change anything, i'm sure, but i always like to see a little retribution That's another good point. Anyone find it a little suspicious that this last hurricane season held more hurricanes than any other recorded (I'm pretty sure, I dont' have the facts right in front of me this moment.) It was explained as a "freak season" and there where a million reasons we where given as to why there where so many hurricanes. Jetstream placement, stuff like that.

[Peregrinus]

I couldn't watch that video either, despite the fact that all of my software is up-to-date, so hopefully what I'm about to say isn't redundant. Even if all greenhouse gas emissions were stopped today, it would take 50 - 100 years for the planet to begin to heal. And btw, we're already feeling the effects of global warming. The extent of the summer polar ice sheet is only about 80% the size it was 25 years ago, Greenland is losing much of its glacial mass, and of the original 140+ glaciers in the US's Glacier National Park, there remain only 5 (which will likely disappear in the next 10 to 20 years). Then, of course, with the melting of the polar ice sheets and the consequent desalination of the earth's oceans, the Gulf Stream will be disrupted and Europe will plunge into another ice age. And with an increasing polarization of climate, some areas will be plunged into deep drought while others drown under floods, and extreme weather events are predicted to increase in frequency and intensity with an increase in the mean global temperature. And that's just the beginning. There are tipping points and feedback loops and damping mechanism. We're tripping into them already. No, global anthropogenic climate change is not something that's "going to happen." It's something that is already happening. Time magazine actually did a fairly extensive cover story this month about global warming. I definitely recommend it. It touches on most of the major concerns, causes, and effects (including, as Celoude mentioned, the role of developing nations on total emissions). It's not very in depth but would certainly point you in the correct direction for further research if you're interested.

[wasup]

Originally posted by Peregrinus I couldn't watch that video either, despite the fact that all of my software is up-to-date, so hopefully what I'm about to say isn't redundant. Even if all greenhouse gas emissions were stopped today, it would take 50 - 100 years for the planet to begin to heal. *And btw, we're already feeling the effects of global warming. *The extent of the summer polar ice sheet is only about 80% the size it was 25 years ago, Greenland is losing much of its glacial mass, and of the original 140+ glaciers in the US's Glacier National Park, there remain only 5 (which will likely disappear in the next 10 to 20 years). *Then, of course, with the melting of the polar ice sheets and the consequent desalination of the earth's oceans, the Gulf Stream will be disrupted and Europe will plunge into another ice age. *And with an increasing polarization of climate, some areas will be plunged into deep drought while others drown under floods, and extreme weather events are predicted to increase in frequency and intensity with an increase in the mean global temperature. *And that's just the beginning. *There are tipping points and feedback loops and damping mechanism. *We're tripping into them already. *No, global anthropogenic climate change is not something that's "going to happen." *It's something that is already happening. *Time magazine actually did a fairly extensive cover story this month about global warming. *I definitely recommend it. *It touches on most of the major concerns, causes, and effects (including, as Celoude mentioned, the role of developing nations on total emissions). *It's not very in depth but would certainly point you in the correct direction for further research if you're interested. Yeah... I was more referring to us dramatically feeling the effects of global warming (though the hurricanes might have been a side effect of global warming). The basic idea of the video was what would happen if the entire ocean rose 20 feet (if greenland melted). For example, most of florida would go under water. But do you think this is an "end of the world" type thing? You speak as if it's pretty irreversable as of now. What do you think the future of us and the planet will be?

[Peregrinus]

Originally posted by ataraxis But do you think this is an "end of the world" type thing? *You speak as if it's pretty irreversable as of now. *What do you think the future of us and the planet will be? If we stop now, if we make a collaborative and concerted effort to significantly curb our emissions of greenhouse gases until we reduce them to at least early 20th century levels, the earth can heal itself mostly. The melting of the ice caps still poses a significant problem. Since the water that melts off absorbs 90% of incident solar radiation whereas the ice that it used to be reflected 90% of incident radiation, the melting process will continue to accelerate. However, if we as a species do now what we know must be done instead of stalling for time, whining and complaining about potential deleterious economic impacts when it fact it is the very future of this planet and the human species which are at stake, the changes to our ecosystems would probably not make the planet inhospitable for too significant a percentage of the human population. And the earth can heal given enough time. But if we continue on this blind and headlong path, speeding toward a destruction that is recognized but not internalized, I don't want to be around for the famine and disease and war that will sweep the human population as necessary resources become scarcer and scarcer.

[wasup]

What is the timeline of all that? Like... as you said in the last part, if we continue like this how long do you think it will take before society really starts crumbling down? Centuries or more like decades?

[Howie]

Originally posted by ataraxis What is the timeline of all that? *Like... as you said in the last part, if we continue like this how long do you think it will take before society really starts crumbling down? *Centuries or more like decades? Despite the nations that do attempt to put restrictions on emissions and pollutants there are so many other nations that let things go on that we would most likely shutter at. Not that I am saying the US are saint by any standard. And Hurricanes. Because we have been having more recently I feel is a good barometer of the ocean temperature change. As indicated too by the gulf stream and the climate changes taking place. Normally hurricanes act as a force to cool the waters south of the equator. And they do. But hurricane after hurricane the waters still remain too warm. As a result, hurricanes keep forming.

[Peregrinus]

Originally posted by ataraxis What is the timeline of all that? *Like... as you said in the last part, if we continue like this how long do you think it will take before society really starts crumbling down? *Centuries or more like decades? Oh, I think we'll be hurtin' well within 50 years. But how much pain we'll be in depends on how long we can keep borrowing resources from the future and what measures we're able to take to protect ourselves from the changes in climate and ecosystem. But honestly, I don't know. No one really does. There are a lot of predictions out there, but the global climate and ecosystem is a chaotic system, highly sensitive to initial conditions. We know what those conditions are now, but other influences will emerge and affect the system. We know in general what will happen, but the specifics are yet to be determined.

[Peregrinus]

Originally posted by Howetzer And Hurricanes. Because we have been having more recently I feel is a good barometer of the ocean temperature change. As indicated too by the gulf stream and the climate changes taking place. Experts: Global warming behind 2005 hurricanes It's being debated this week at the AMS Conference on Hurricanes and Tropical Meteorology. I'd love to be there to see the evidence and papers being presented.

[Howie]

Originally posted by Peregrinus Experts: Global warming behind 2005 hurricanes It's being debated this week at the AMS Conference on Hurricanes and Tropical Meteorology. *I'd love to be there to see the evidence and papers being presented. As would I. Thanks for the link. If you have access to one of the recent issues of The National Geographic, it has an interesting article in regards to the latest (amazing) supercomputer devised to determine climate change. BTW ataraxis wrote: What is the timeline of all that? Like... as you said in the last part, if we continue like this how long do you think it will take before society really starts crumbling down? Centuries or more like decades? Originally posted by peregrinus Oh, I think we'll be hurtin' well within 50 years. How could this fit with my plans for my genetically engineered and enhanced football playing son with blue eyes, that is going to live for two hundred years???

[dudesuperior]

Originally posted by ataraxis But do you think this is an "end of the world" type thing? You speak as if it's pretty irreversable as of now. I doubt that the end of the world will come because of all our pollution. We will either come to the conclusion that we need to cut down on using fossil fuels and other non-renewable sources of energy, or the effects 'peak oil' and ever the increasing prices of the fuels will do it for us. This would most likely happen before the all the earths climatic mechanisms become irreversibly changed, and our current climate will stay relatively familiar to todays. If the planet does decide to have revenge on us by huge sea rises and unpredictable and harsh weather conditions then most of us will die out, the human population will plummet and then everything will eventually fizzle out to normality. Originally posted by ataraxis What do you think the future of us and the planet will be? Hmmm.... if most of us die out from the harsh weather then there will be little/no advancement of technology anymore, and then one day an asteroid will come along, and since there will be no humans to stop it the asteroid will destroy everything on the planet (Boo-Hoo). But if we do survive we inevitably will f*ck up the planet and everything will die (Boo-Hoo). Ultimately, everything dies either way …Yeah- got a little carried away on that last bit