Do Your Bitching About Non-american/ally Violence Here...

[Universal Mind]

I have seen a lot of people in this forum absolutely dog my country for doing what really seems like what we have to do in the face of the most insane situation we have ever known. Interestingly, those same people, to the best of my knowledge, have said practically nothing against Al Qaeda, the Hussein regime, Hezbollah, Palestinian suicide bombers, Hamas, WWII Japan, the Taliban, etc. So I started this thread so that those people can show their passion against those enemies of the United States. If you are passionately against them, please demonstrate that passion in this thread. If you have not trashed the United States in this forum or wanted to, then please do not use this thread for bitching about those organizations I listed. However, feel free to point out the lack of reply that will most likely exist in this thread. I have seen some major anti-American passion in this forum. A lot of it is absolutely jaw dropping. So I challenge those passionate people to show their passion against the organizations and governments I just mentioned. PLEASE DO NOT use this thread to bitch about the United States. There is plenty of room to do that in other threads. This thread is meant SOLELY for bitching about the enemies of the United States. I kindly ask that you not let your anti-Americanism flood over into this thread too. If you do, you will be supporting my theory that it is not violence and injustice that you are against and that there is something else about the United States that is eating you. Don't support that theory of mine here. If you are not against any of the organizations and governments I listed, then please bitch about any violence committed by any organization or government that is simply not the United States or one of our allies. If the United States and our allies are all you bitch about in terms of unjust violence, then you have a very peculiar bias which, as I said, is about something other than violence and injustice. Thank you. Bitch away...

[Neruo]

lol you just needed to do that didn't you I think america biggest enemy is the people controlling it. The old presidents were mostly cool, but now the elitists came and took over. If they would go back to the 'ignoring the world' thingy, they used to do, alot less americans would have died. I liked the old policy. Let us do our shit, we don't care what you do. And yeah, the terorrist groups are wrong to start a war about religion and hate and such. But in some cases I can understand that someones goes a long way to defend what they believe in. More people think like that, it's a human trait, but sometimes it takes a wrong turn... or two.

[Hominus Feralis]

Thanks Universal I think i'll add my 2 pennies eh hem. I would like to start off with a statement. A recurring theme in our discussions has been "blaming America first" No matter what happens to us or how many civilians and soldiers die, we can never do anything right. Keep in mind, all you Europeans, that Hitler would have taken over EVERYTHING if not for the US, and then you guys question the method in which we fought the war. Give us some fucking gratitude. We basically joined in a war that was not ours, and we get no respect for that. NONE. And you never say ANYTHING about the evil-causers, just "the evil American empire". We do what we have to do, so stop bitchin America has never agressed just for the hell of it (except in Vietnam). All we've ever done is attack those who attack us or agress toward us. Plain and simple. JAPAN WAS NOT ABOUT TO GIVE UP. If they were about to, they would have done so DIRECTLY after the bombing in Hiroshima, and not waited 2 extra weeks for Nagasaki. We did what we had to do, which unfortunately killed about 214,000 people. AND NO. WE DID NOT BOMB THOSE CITIES SIMPLY BECAUSE OF THEIR CIVILIAN POPULATIONS. We did not just pick a city that had a shit load of civilians just to be assholes. Hiroshima and Nagasaki were both MAJOR war production cities with military bases and training facilities. In short, the bombs WERE necessary and they DID save lives. Just accept the fact. Fucking Muslim extremists. This is why i hate religion so fucking much. It brainwashes entire regions of the world into killing themselves and thousands of others. They murder officials and take over countries, then opress the people. Then we liberate Afghanistan. Then who gets dogged. THE USA (the greatest FUCKING nation on the globe). WE are the ones who get in trouble for our "hostile takeover". Nobody pays attention to how many people the Taliban and Al Quadea killed (at least none of you do). We are in a war against terror, which is a war against people. PEOPLE DIE IN WARS. I'm sick of hearing this shit about "well,uh......american soldiers killed 4 family members while they were sleeping". JUST SHUT UP. Its war. People die. Why dont you people EVER blame the instigators for what they do? Huh? Because you're too busy running your fucking mouth about America and all we do wrong. AND YES!!!! We are the world's police force. In this day of nuclear weaponry and terrorism, somebody needs to keep tabs on certain nations. Who else is gonna do it? The fucking UN with THEIR army? OOOO, THATS RIGHT, THEY DONT HAVE A FUCKING ARMY!!!!! Who else would do it? France? England? The Netherlands? Please. We are the current superpower and we have to keep this world in order. Otherwise there would be chaos. So all you people need to stop your bitchin about your saviors. YES, WE DID SAVE YOUR COUNTRIES. England was pushed back to their own fucking island, but look what happened when we entered WWII. We swept through France, Belgium, North Africa, and Germany in a little over a year. WE KICK ASS. YOU DIDNT. plain and simple. Thats all i'll say until somebody (neuro?) brings up some stupid shit. Then i'll talk again. By the way, Universal, the UN needs to be added to your list of US enemies. Damnit

[Bonsay]

For Hominus... It is true that US helped a lot in WW2, but why should we praise every war you start, just because you "helped us". I really don't see the logic in that. I mean like thanks for helping and all, but no thanks for starting more wars... I really don't feel like we need to be all happy with America and agreeing on everything with it, eaven though great America is starting wars. America has never agressed just for the hell of it (except in Vietnam). All we've ever done is attack those who attack us or agress toward us. Plain and simple.[/b] What the hell does that mean. Iraq, Afganistan attacked you? If a few terrorists attack America, looking like they are from France, will you attack France? About the Atomic bombs. I read somewhere that Truman said that he would only use the atomic bomb against military buildings. "But shit, Japan was a big military object, they were making or hiding weapons in every house. So you can't really hit a military house without killing civilians."(More than 340 000 people died from the atomic bombs.) Truman ofcourse imedeately decided to drop the bombs on Japan. People tried to convince him to give Japan a demo, of what the atomic bombs could do, since Japan would surrender. They were totaly destroyed from American bombarding, with no allies, with nobody on their side, economicly depleted, all that and a threat from the atomic bomb would surely make them surrender. Truman was counting on three things: 1. That the atomic bomb would break Japan thus ending the Pacific war. 2. That the bomb would save lives of american soldiers, that could have died in an attack on Japan. 3. That he wouldn't need help from the Soviets and thus have more rights in the negotiations over territories with Stalin. But Truman also knew that Japan was about to surrender, by intercepting a telegram from a japanese ambasador in Moscow, with Stalin as its "mediator". He also knew that Japan wouldn't surrender unconditionaly. Japan would only do that if they left the emperor stay in power, without being captured as a criminal of war. If Truman did that nobody would die, the war on the Pacific would end. But when he got the atomic bomb, there were only 2 possibilitys: unconditional surrender, or bomb dropping. They wanted to remove the emperor and switch the goverment and "bring democracy" (just like bush and Iraq). But he thought that it would be bad, if the people found out that he had the bomb and still didn't force the unconditional surrender. No, unconditional surrender isn't enough. America wouldn't fulfil Japans terms. They had to teach them a lesson. There was also the matter of retaliation, they couldn't forget Pearl Harbour. But to make a good impression, Truman didn't drop one, but two bombs! And both were dropped on cities previously untouched by bombardment. See bombing wasn't really necessary. That is the real terror, just accept the fact. I agree, muslim extremists aren't my favourite kind of people either. But what does that have to do with liberating Afghanistan? Does America keep making up things as they move along. The last time I hears, you went there to get Osama (The evil 9/11 (CIA) terrorist, oh well, just shut up I guess, people die.). It's all so simple to you, people die, it's war, life's a bitch, shit happens? I just can't believe what an insensitive person you are. Do you pay atention on how many people died in the "anti-terror" aka "terror" wars? Not only civilians, but also soldiers, all life is precious, at least to me. I guess people just die. Who made you the worlds police force? Was it god. I heard bush that americas soldiers are soldiers of god. (Maby?). You think that you are a police force, you are mor of an attack force. There is only money involved. You think that you keep balance of the world, by bombing countries, you are still influenced by the good old propaganda. Face facts, you who like to say that. It's about money, oil, power, all the same! It is you who should stop "bitchn'". All you think about is that you need an army to controll the world. It's true just you are looking at it from the wrong perspective, as I said money. You as a loyal capitalist should accept the fact that it's all about money, it's hitting you in the face. The world is in caos right now, thanks for all the order! By the way, I didn't see America being occupied by Nazis. I'd like to see you try fight them off. And you are still doing it Hominus, with your simplistic thinking "WE KICK ASS YOU DON'T". That again shows your capability, mental state, etc. I don't want to look like some super smart being, just told you my thoughts, that are based on facts, observations, not on propaganda. If you open your mind you'll see it. All you do is wage wars. Like the end of your post for instance, shows your true intentions, more wars...

[Universal Mind]

lol you just needed to do that didn't you I think america biggest enemy is the people controlling it. The old presidents were mostly cool, but now the elitists came and took over. If they would go back to the 'ignoring the world' thingy, they used to do, alot less americans would have died. I liked the old policy. Let us do our shit, we don't care what you do. And yeah, the terorrist groups are wrong to start a war about religion and hate and such. But in some cases I can understand that someones goes a long way to defend what they believe in. More people think like that, it's a human trait, but sometimes it takes a wrong turn... or two. [/b] Neruo, my friend, you just did exactly what I asked you not to do. I set up this thread for passionately bitching about organizations and governments OTHER THAN the United States. Your post was a United States post with a brief mention of our enemies. You know my theory on that, if you read my initial post. Please use this thread ONLY for bitching about non-American/ally violence. Otherwise, you are supporting my theory. Thank you. I agree, muslim extremists aren't my favourite kind of people either. But what does that have to do with liberating Afghanistan? Does America wage wars. [/b] See, that too is what I am talking about. You said that after a long speech on how America kind of sucks. I am challenging you and the others who don't like our policies to GO OFF ABOUT SOMEBODY ELSE. I am talking about passionately going off, not giving brief mentionings by saying something like, "Well, I am not fan of Al Qaeda, but the United States sucks the United States sucks the United States sucks..." Somehow I knew that the very people I am talking about would, even in THIS thread, be magnets for dogging the United States. Now will somebody who disagrees with our foreign policy PLEASE try to show some sincere passion against violence other than U.S. and ally violence so you can be more believable when you act like it really is unjust violence that you are against? I don't think it is.

[Alric]

Like the old saying goes, two wrongs don't make a right. Just because theres a ton of other countries and groups full of idiots doesn't mean we should act like total morons.

[Neruo]

How old are you, homoinus feranus? You see to be using alot of caps. Anyhow, I hate religious extremists too, and america acts like one big religious extremist. One nation under god. The extreme nationalism is about the same as extreme relgion. America is no better then a country with a islamcrazed government. The truth is there are alot of dangers in this world that can totally fuck up the world big time. Some crazy little states with nukes might be dangarous, but only if the nukes fall into the wrong hands. Nuking israel is suicide if it is clear that iran/pakistan/name something did it. It is not those counties to fear. It is the countries that have the most of weaponry and thus power, or the people that do not fight for county, but for faith and thus have nothing to lose. If anyone is going to start trowing nukes around, the biggest danger to the world, I would say it would eighter be korea, but you don't seem to care about that lately, or it would be israel, your dearest ally. Oh, and you said that america never was the agressor? Except for vietnam (what wrong with a little napalm). Well: The United States has been involved militarily, through the use of missiles or bombs, with 22 countries since the end of World War II. These include: China 1945-46, 1950-53; Korea 1950-53; Guatemala 1954, 1960, 1967-69; Indonesia 1958; Cuba 1959-61; Congo 1964; Peru 1965; Laos 1964-73; Vietnam 1961-73; Cambodia 1969-70; Lebanon 1983-84; Grenada 1983; Libya 1986, El Salvador 1980s; Nicaragua 1980s; Panama 1989; Iraq 1991 to present day; Somalia 1993; Bosnia (Republic of Srpska) 1995; Sudan 1998; Yugoslavia 1999; and Afghanistan 1998, 2001-02. Did all these countries attack america first? I think not. Not on their own soil they did. - The main point is: Don't fight hate with bombs. America should set an example, becouse they are the most powerfull nation in the world. But they are not giving the right example and thanks to them there is alot more hate in the world than there would be if you wouldn't bomb the shit out of any country with slightly mixed intrests. America isn't the true bad apple in the world, but it's reaction is a catalyst for more hate.

[Universal Mind]

Like the old saying goes, two wrongs don't make a right. Just because theres a ton of other countries and groups full of idiots doesn't mean we should act like total morons. [/b] (With all due respect...) Jesus H. Freaking Christ!!!!! Is this challenge really that difficult?!!!! Why would you not use this golden opportunity to make people believe that you are sincere in your remarks against what you claim to be unjust violence? I would like to believe that you are. I am disturbed by a lot of the world right now because I really believe that so many people have a sick, self/social image agenda of dishonesty in being so outrageously biased against U.S. policy. I have believed for years that it has insincere roots. I am giving you a perfect opportunity to show me otherwise, and much to my disappointment, you are not doing it. Why? Do you folks even understand what I am asking here?

[Neruo]

I do not see why you are defending america so much, even while most of the inhabitants of the world seem to disprove of america's ways.

[Universal Mind]

If the United States and our allies are all you bitch about in terms of unjust violence, then you have a very peculiar bias which, as I said, is about something other than violence and injustice. [/b] Hominus Feralis, I have agreed with and been entertained by pretty much all you have said on this web site, but I need you to please help me get these people on track. Please call a truce on the arguments about whether the United States is great or sucks in this thread. This thread is supposed to be about giving the haters of our foreign policy (so they claim) a chance to show some sincerity instead of a second agenda or whatever it is. I really want to see what is going on in the minds of these people. Thanks. Anybody who wants to argue with Hominus' points, please start another thread for that. You can title it "Hominus is wrong. The United States sucks." or something. Just please focus on my challenge here so I can come even close to thinking that it actually is unjust violence you are against. Is it?

[Bonsay]

Neruo, my friend, you just did exactly what I asked you not to do. I set up this thread for passionately bitching about organizations and governments OTHER THAN the United States. Your post was a United States post with a brief mention of our enemies. You know my theory on that, if you read my initial post. Please use this thread ONLY for bitching about non-American/ally violence. Otherwise, you are supporting my theory. Thank you. See, that too is what I am talking about. You said that after a long speech on how America kind of sucks. I am challenging you and the others who don't like our policies to GO OFF ABOUT SOMEBODY ELSE. I am talking about passionately going off, not giving brief mentionings by saying something like, "Well, I am not fan of Al Qaeda, but the United States sucks the United States sucks the United States sucks..." Somehow I knew that the very people I am talking about would, even in THIS thread, be magnets for dogging the United States. Now will somebody who disagrees with our foreign policy PLEASE try to show some sincere passion against violence other than U.S. and ally violence so you can be more believable when you act like it really is unjust violence that you are against? I don't think it is. [/b] Sorry for doing that in your thread, I wanted to answer to Hominus' posts. I'm not saying how America "sucks". America is America like China is China, its own country. I just want, for once, to read some open minded posts from Hominus for example. All I read from his posts is what I said propaganda in one form or another. Just saying that what America is doing is just not right. So my America style posts in this thread stop right now.

[Neruo]

Well yes, I probably should have stayed out of this topic. But it was kind of provocative. Allso it was especially Me that 'inspired' you to make this topic. And you wouldn't even have otherwise. You just made this topic to tell yourself that America is good and proud in a world of evildoers. Allso, it is hard to talk about any conflict in the last 40 years the USA wasn't entangeld in :/ We could discuss the Khmer Rouge's (Red Khmer's) activities in cambodia. Those guys had some wicked torture methods. Man I have to restrain myself not to talk about how america could learn something from the torture methods, and I was going to ask how again cambiodia attacked the US that justified bombing it. Oops. Ok lets face it. In most battles america was in I do not choose america's side, but allso not the other. (expect perhaps in hilters case). War isn't all joke and fun and it isn't like chess. People die. War sucks. America seems to love war. You seem to try to justify it. I guess I could refrain from posting here, becouse I indeed did not follow your stated wishes in the topic-post. I will just make a big america topic for us to flame each other. Flame ofcourse is russian for 'debate'.

[Alric]

To be honest I don't really care what the other countries do. They are not a threat to us and their not even worth the time. Who cares if they all killing each other or whatever, they will still trade with us. We have our own problems in the US. We should deal with them first before we go off into the middle of no where to war with some country that is no threat. We gain nothing from the war, its totally not worth it. It just a waste of money. Just or unjust, its just a total waste of time and money and the fact is we can't afford it. People just keep ignoring me when I say that. Even if you say we were right in everything and we should have gone for war it DOES NOT MATTER. We do not have the money and its going to kill our country. I don't see what you people don't understand. No wonder so many people are in debt. You act like a teenager with a new credit card. "We are not paying for it so we can charge all we want". Well sooner or later our "credit card" is going to be cut in half and when that happens the US is going to hit a horrible depression. Is that what you want? You want our country to go bankrupt? Is that like a joke to you? Or are people actually that stupid. Anyone with a 3rd grade education can look at our nation debt and see it is HUGE number. We have NO MONEY. We are in debt up to our eyeballs and you want to spend even more? Are you insane? Do you lack total common sense? Are you a moron? Seriously, what kind of idiot do you have to be to not see this? Maybe I can make it simple for you. "Big numbers are bad". Maybe if you repeat that to yourself a thousand times you will understand it. Who cares if the war is just or not? What everyone should be pissed about is that our country is going to die because the retards in congress keep spending insanes amount of money on a war we couldn't afford in the first place.

[Hominus Feralis]

Alright Universal The reason we invaded Afghanistan was because it was run by the Taliban. Taliban/al quadea terrorists attacked us, so we took down their central "government". Thats simple. Lets talk about the Taliban. First of all, fuck'em. They impose their beliefs and religious rules on whoever they control. I saw a woman being flogged with a small metal stick because part of her skin was showing. They also murdered the president? of Afghanistan to take it over. They are just really sick religious extremists. Now i want to talk about Somalia. Universal, do you think our agression was justified? First of all it was a peace making op to stop all the violence and gang wars. I'm sure the europeans are gonna come on this thread (not allowed) and make comments about how we killed bla bla bla # of Somalis we killed when they were the ones who sent us there!!! The UN wanted to help Somalia, but America was the only candidate (everyone else was LAZY). Once again we were faced with agression (Aidid), and we dealt with it. By the way no Somalians were supposed to get killed in Operation Irene. It was an assaut mission to get hi ranking official prisoners. Shit just got out of control. Whats your view? i think we were justified

[Hominus Feralis]

but like Universal said, lets call a truce. Talk about the evil everyone else does instead of us. Believe me, we've heard it.

[Universal Mind]

Hominus, I am glad you are at least one person who actually shows that he understands my request. Maybe the America haters here are just really slow? Well, everybody knows the real explanation. Unfortunately, your situation is not a case of one of the supposed haters of American foreign policy speaking out against violence that is not committed by the U.S. or our allies. Just like I predicted, we are this far into the thread, and NOT ONE of them has passionately spoken out against any of the other governments or organizations that commit violence. I do promise that there are lots and lots of such governments and organizations out there. But the lack of passion against them proves my point. The America bashing is not sincerely about unjust violence. It is about something else. It is about extreme jealousy. The Americans who do it are jealous of Republicans because they stand in favor of the rich, or more importantly, don't stand against the rich, which is the major religious doctrine of the anti-Republicans. It is about jealousy, not any kind of true passion against unjust violence itself. If such passion were there, it would have shown itself by now. Why would you insincere haters of my awesome country want to prove me so obviously right on this? You just got your ass whipped by an American. I rest my case.

[Bonsay]

You would think so. Actually I always thought of certain americans as "slow". I still don't feel very jelaous. I see no reason for jealousy. And you brought this upon yourself by attacking the world. I don't see anyone else doing it.

[Hominus Feralis]

universal, the directions were simple and they still cant follow it. Now i call them, the America haters, another enemy of this country. They have never set foot on our soil and they automatically know we are "slow". As you said, they are obsessed with our country, just as most of Europe was obsessed with Rome when it was at its peak. Jealosy My point is made. I just hope THEY can do some bitching about someone else.

[Bonsay]

Rome wasn't attacked because of jealousy, it was because the romans killed, conquered, their lands. And because they were nomadic people and started to conquer lands themselves. Since Rome had so much land, they attacked Rome.

[Universal Mind]

You would think so. Actually I always thought of certain americans as "slow". I still don't feel very jelaous. I see no reason for jealousy. And you brought this upon yourself by attacking the world. I don't see anyone else doing it. [/b] Yes, Americans are very slow. Our slowness results in what I described here... Capitalism is the reason we kick ass in business, history of inventions, military, space exploration, technology, scientific progress, medical knowledge, entertainment, and so on. [/b] If it is not your jealousy that is at the root of why you and the others were not able to go off about any non-American/ally government or organization, then what is? This issue is being avoided by you people like the pink elephant in the room that nobody acknowledges. I flat out said that if my challenge results in America bashing with nothing more than a brief mention of what is wrong with anything non-American, then it is not actually a problem with violence or injustice that is at the root of the America bashing on this thread. If you disagree with that statement, then WHAT IS YOUR COUNTER ARGUMENT? What is YOUR explanation for why the America haters on this forum FAILED my experiment with flying colors? My challenge was extremely simple, and the truth of what resulted is blatantly obvious. Anybody who can read knows that the problem people on page 1 have with the United States is not what they claim it is. If it were, they would easily be able to really bitch about OTHER countries and organizations, especially after I make such a clear assertion that I don't think they are even capable of doing it because their problem with the U.S. has nothing to do with violence or injustice. I was extremely clear about that. Look at what happened any way. How do you explain it? I'll tell you what. I'll give you and the others another chance. Leave a post where you absolutely go off about how SOMEBODY ELSE sucks. Let's see what you can do now. Here is a list from which you can choose... North Korea Iran Syria The Palestinian Liberation Organization The Hussein Regime The Taliban Al Qaeda Hamas Hezbollah Islamic Jihad China North Vietnam other Here is a perfect opportunity for you people to show that it really is violence, oppression, and/or injustice that is eating you about the United States. Let's see your true colors. Show us your passion. This time, don't put a huge target on your forehead for my sarcasm. Let's see what's really going on in your heads. (not that you didn't make it completely obvious on the first page) P.S.- I never even really thought of myself as an American until sorry bastards around the world started trashing my country constantly. Many of those people had their damn countries saved by the U.S. government/military, which many my friends and relatives have been part of. It is disgusting. I don't even want my country to be the greatest country in the world. I want the rest of the world to be just as great. Please help make it happen.

[Hominus Feralis]

they cant do it universal. This whole idea is pointless. America is constantly on their minds, so they cant stop. Hell, they probably know more about American history than their country's history. I honestly dont doubt it.

[shark!]

i hate hugo chavez..hezbollah...north korea government...terrorists, saddam, usama just as much as I hate the american government...happy now?lol...you wanted more passion?im pretty sure everyone here could do what you asked...but why would we do somethng just because you asked us? what are you trying to prove here Universal Mind? that we are jealous of america? that we don't actually care what you ask us to do? or that we are all biased against your country? or what? no my america bashing is about unjust violence...you dont' know me. why do we have to bitch about other shitty places all the time? its not like we support them if we dont? I never even really thought of myself as an American until sorry bastards around the world started trashing my country constantly. Many of those people had their damn countries saved by the U.S. government/military, which many my friends and relatives have been part of. It is disgusting. I don't even want my country to be the greatest country in the world. I want the rest of the world to be just as great. Please help make it happen.[/b] my country fought your country and burnd the whitehouse...thats why its painted white. I flat out said that if my challenge results in America bashing with nothing more than a brief mention of what is wrong with anything non-American, then it is not actually a problem with violence or injustice that is at the root of the America bashing on this thread. [/b] \ how does that make sense? btw why do you even care that we hate parts of america?

[Hominus Feralis]

if it's "unjust violence", then why doesnt anybody do anything about it?

[shark!]

if it's "unjust violence", then why doesnt anybody do anything about it? [/b] ...what exactly are you saying?

[Hominus Feralis]

if our invasion was not justified and we "just did it for oil", then we commited a war crime. Why doesnt the UN do anything about that?