An Inconvenient Truth

Hello,

After much research and thorough reading, I had seen many studies that gave me the inclination that there was serious problems with our planet. There were major issues with overpopulation, global warming, etc. Then I saw this movie and it conglomerated all the facts.

What is most people's response when they are told the planet could potentially fall in 50 years..? "Yeah right, that's bull. Al Gore is obviously trying to spread propoganda and plus.. scientists are idiots." I can only say that, yes, the past year which had the most typhoons, hurricanes, cyclones, the subsequent years have had consecutive record breaking heat waves, the population boom (from 2 billion to 9 billion in roughly 30 years), and many, many, other factors, yes, that was Al Gore!

Why do most people overlook this..? Because, frankly, humans are freaking lazy-ass human beings and we can not take responsibility for things! Stop procrastinating!

Let me ask you this. Let us say you are living in a neighborhood that has incredibly high crime rates. So you and all your neighbours get together and agree to do X task in order to bring down the crime (does not matter what the task is, just something that deters the crime, ie. stand in front lawn, set up motion lights, etc.). Now let us say that all your neighbors, except two, agree to this. Then one of these neighbors has the audacity to start selling weapons, throwing parties, having too much sex, and robbing your other neighbours! What would you do..?

Why do I ask this? It is a counterexample for the Kyoto agreement. America and Australia are the only ones to have not signed this agreement and America is the highest (by a disgusting amount) contributor to this issue. However, this is not me in anyway trying to attack America but bring awareness - there are many, many, other countries responsible for this problem.

Go watch the movie or visit www.climatecrisis.net to see what it is all about and what you can do about it. Feel free to check the scientific journals for this evidence - they all agree. Check your media however, and you will get the same lazy procrastination that many other people have, "Oh it's not our problem.. someone else will take care of it... I do not care.. Al Gore is a dumbass.." AHHHHHHHH!! (I would like to note I think this is the first post I have screamed in the middle of typing).

Anyways..

Go watch it!

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I think human nature plays a role in this. When an issue is pending (I guess you would say) people ignore it. To put it bluntly, if it is not effecting them NOW, they brush it aside.
Even when it does effect them this argument still holds up. If you screw someone slowly they take it and bitch a little. If you do it all at once they will not stand for it.
Unfortunately global warming does not happen over night :|


This scares the crap out of me O'nus.
Every time I try to conserve, recycle, use less gas, turn off lights, put money towards retirement. I often have this sick gut feeling and I ask myself, what is the point? It seems so evident to me how lazy many people are.
I tell myself I am doing this for future generations. Will my tiny contribution help? I have doubts.

I hate to be a pessimist in this matter. But facts do not lie.

if everyone does there bit, then it does help.

however, if only one person does it, the effect is marginal.

even if you are the only one, at least you are carring

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Originally Posted by Howetzer

I think human nature plays a role in this. When an issue is pending (I guess you would say) people ignore it. To put it bluntly, if it is not effecting them NOW, they brush it aside.
Even when it does effect them this argument still holds up. If you screw someone slowly they take it and bitch a little. If you do it all at once they will not stand for it.
Unfortunately global warming does not happen over night :|
This scares the crap out of me O'nus.
Every time I try to conserve, recycle, use less gas, turn off lights, put money towards retirement. I often have this sick gut feeling and I ask myself, what is the point? It seems so evident to me how lazy many people are.
I tell myself I am doing this for future generations. Will my tiny contribution help? I have doubts.

I hate to be a pessimist in this matter. But facts do not lie.
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Each person makes a significant difference - you know that!

Just by making posts on a forum, telling a friend, anyone - you create a chain of people who will tell other people and bring about more awareness. Many people will take more action, if they can, and petition their political leaders, principal's, and even their parents!

Frankly, I am pissed off with our ancestors and their ignorance! You should be to! But do not be like them! Do not let these problems have to be solved by our children!

In the movie, Al Gore makes a very good point that you are saying here. Our central nervous systems acts in that very exact way - we must not make any sudden action until it becomes an obvious emergency or apparent problem. This is apparent all through psychology. In fact, we are more prone to argue with the people purporting it. (ie. Al Gore is trying to become president again, obviously... what freaking heat wave? Hurricanes? Yeah, so what....)

Number one thing you can do - watch your political elections, pay attention, vote for the right people whose focus is on environmental issues and global issues instead of selfish national issues. "Throw more money to the military.. take it from something useless like.. oooohhh I don't know... "

It is time we take responsibility before the consequences become ineffable.

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I often become quite annoyed with some people. You see, I drive a Neon, partly because it is fun to drive a small car, but mostly because it uses relatively little fuel.

The annoyance part comes in when I am at an intersection and someone in their Escalade (12-17 mpg) almost runs me over or totally blocks my view of oncomming traffic. OK that goes toward energy conservation.

The next thing that toasts my cookies are all of the people squeezing out more babies than the earth can support. My wife and I had our two kids (note not even enough to replenish the population), then chose sterilization.

Mankind and viruses, so alike.

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Originally Posted by Seeker

I often become quite annoyed with some people. You see, I drive a Neon, partly because it is fun to drive a small car, but mostly because it uses relatively little fuel.

The annoyance part comes in when I am at an intersection and someone in their Escalade (12-17 mpg) almost runs me over or totally blocks my view of oncomming traffic. OK that goes toward energy conservation.

The next thing that toasts my cookies are all of the people squeezing out more babies than the earth can support. My wife and I had our two kids (note not even enough to replenish the population), then chose sterilization.

Mankind and viruses, so alike.
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Does America, or any states I suppose, offer redemption, grant, or subsidy for buying fuel efficient cars? Or thermostats for that matter..? Or.. anything? I have no knowledge of any of this, so I do not want to seem coy or uncouth here - I am honestly asking if America does.

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Originally Posted by O

Does America, or any states I suppose, offer redemption, grant, or subsidy for buying fuel efficient cars? Or thermostats for that matter..? Or.. anything? I have no knowledge of any of this, so I do not want to seem coy or uncouth here - I am honestly asking if America does.

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Sadly, America is no longer at this time run by the people. Big business such as petroleum make it difficult. Note I said difficult, not impossible. If Americans wanted to, they could take back their country. I only live 9 miles from work, we have a shower at our office. I could conceivably bicycle to work in the morning, that is unless an SUV takes me out. We have very few sidewalks.

One thing that has really pissed me off for the last 30 years has been the suppression of out nuclear energy program. We still get most of our electricity from fossil fuels, mainly because it costs billions to build and commision a nuclear plant.

Nukes are FAR less damaging to the environment than coal or natural gas power plants.

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Originally Posted by O

Each person makes a significant difference - you know that!
Just by making posts on a forum, telling a friend, anyone - you create a chain of people who will tell other people and bring about more awareness. Many people will take more action, if they can, and petition their political leaders, principal's, and even their parents! [/b]

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I do try and tell myself that it makes a differance.
A few things to add.
We have developed energy efficient homes. You name it. Insulation, efficient furnaces. Great. Now we build four times the house we need.
We need more than a trade off.

Other countries. China is expanding it's coal plants in an alarming rate.
Some don't even have regulations, much less global impact ideas. :?

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In the movie, Al Gore makes a very good point that you are saying here. Our central nervous systems acts in that very exact way - we must not make any sudden action until it becomes an obvious emergency or apparent problem. This is apparent all through psychology. In fact, we are more prone to argue with the people purporting it. (ie. Al Gore is trying to become president again, obviously... what freaking heat wave? Hurricanes? Yeah, so what....)[/b]

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I will be sure to watch this.

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It is time we take responsibility before the consequences become ineffable.[/b]

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Sometimes I think it would be the best thing for this earth to run out of oil.
Necessity breeds invention. :content:

**Seekman. One thing we can afford is more seekers in the world. :wink:

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Originally Posted by Howetzer

I do try and tell myself that it makes a differance.
A few things to add.
We have developed energy efficient homes. You name it. Insulation, efficient furnaces. Great. Now we build four times the house we need.
We need more than a trade off.

Other countries. China is expanding it's coal plants in an alarming rate.
Some don't even have regulations, much less global impact ideas. :?



I will be sure to watch this.

Sometimes I think it would be the best thing for this earth to run out of oil.
Necessity breeds invention. :content:

**Seekman. One thing we can afford is more seekers in the world. :wink:
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Has anyone read or heard of any reports or theories on what would happen if we did deplete our oil reserve..? I mean in the respect of environment issues.. I hardly care for the lack of funds to oil companies..

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Part of the problem is no one can agree on anything. People can't even agree if theres really such a thing as global warming. Well yea the planet is warming but is it because of people or is it just the naturel warming and cooling cycle the earth has? Its the same thing with people who swear we have 80 years worth of easy to get oil and people who says we have 10 years before it all runs out. And you wouldn't think both could be true at the same time but both sides will give you a ton of "facts" supporting thier case.

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Originally Posted by Alric

Part of the problem is no one can agree on anything. People can't even agree if theres really such a thing as global warming. Well yea the planet is warming but is it because of people or is it just the naturel warming and cooling cycle the earth has? Its the same thing with people who swear we have 80 years worth of easy to get oil and people who says we have 10 years before it all runs out. And you wouldn't think both could be true at the same time but both sides will give you a ton of "facts" supporting thier case.
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Bingo.

Many of us were raised fearing the "population bomb," which should have starved us all to death twenty years ago. Then there was global cooling and ozone depletion, peak oil, and on and on.

There is a significant body of evidence that we are right now heading into another minor ice age and will be there in ten years or less.

There is a significant body of evidence proving that "hockey stick" that is the core of the global warming argument is hooey, and that the mathematical models can't predict anything other than that even when fed phony data that SHOULD be pointing toward stability or cooling.

The earth is part of a complex system which we have precious little control over. I'm sorry, but I'm not going to lose sleep over producing plant food (CO2) with my activities... especially when a single volcanic eruption can and does produce more greenhouse gasses in a week or two than humans have produced since the beginning of the industrial revolution - and injects it straight up into the stratosphere to boot.

Are things changing? Sure. Will they continue to? Guaranteed. Is MAN making it happen? We MIGHT be having the SLIGHTEST influence regarding climate, but the more I study it, the less likely it appears to be happening or even possible.

Air quality in other areas is another story entirely - as is clean water and keeping poisons out of the ground and the food chain.

As far as the earth being able to "support" a given population, take a flight over the central US sometime. We are nowhere near a population crisis here or anywhere else for that matter - and as people create more wealth and advance technology, our cumulative lot improves - as does our ability to address REAL crises.

Nope... I believe the whole global warming thing is a political tool for political gain. Many are making millions off of it, curtailing human liberties and garnering power through it.

If you really want to worry, head over to one of my favorite sites and enjoy some light reading: http://www.exitmundi.nl

While I do agree us humans are spoiling the planet and causing our own downfall, I have serious trouble believing the fact we will only have 50 years to live.

I do not have any more to say.

Edit Wait, yes I do! Scientists have found out that global warming is a natural process. We, man, are stimulating it with cars, factories, etc. But are we really accelerating it a thousand billion gazillion fold? No, not really. Natural resources running out? Yep. Totally. But is stuff being done against it? Again, sure. Oh, and 9 billion people on the Earth? Err, no. Last time I read statistics, it was 6.5 billion. And that was a couple of months ago.

personaly, I think it would be interesting (though not safe, and deffinatly not cumftable) to see the end

Oh, yes. Interesting, certainly. But I prefer not seeing it.

I laugh when he says "After it's all melted, there will be no more ice to cool the planet." indicating we're killing the planet. like.... LOL!!!! that's hilarious. He really over-looked the cause/effect game on that.

watch Daisy Planet and you'll know what I mean...

http://library.thinkquest.org/C003763/flash/gaia1.htm

If you DON'T know what I mean... well... think.

I am kind of worried too. I never looked into it as much, but who does? Everyone, really allmost everyone is like: Ahhh, that isn't going to happen, it is exaggerated.

I think that if everything is true what they say about global warming, and to some extend I think it is pretty darn true, then most people will only see that fact when it is allready to late...

pretty fucked here in the Nethelands... I just hope mankind will survive...

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Or we could nerve-gas all the western countries ,the middle-east and asia, that might stop the global warming :)

But then again, humans living through something tragic like this could further ourselves. Perhaps it is a necessary course of action towards a higher cause.

exactly...its unavoidable, inevitable, and necessary to push humanity forward.

So what if 95% of all people on the planet die? Humans are about as stubborn a species as they come. We have to be dragged kicking and screaming into change (in this case, dying). However, as a group organism we will probably still survive and be stronger for it. We have been overpopulating the planet for a few generations now and have killed more species that we can count so if you ask me we have it coming...There is only so long you can avoid your come-up-ance before it comes to get you...

But hey, look at the bright side, at least you can say you got to live at the peak of human civilization. Not many generations can say that. Most would say; I saw famine, war, disease, etc...(the endless list goes on).


On a different note, how come nearly all cultures have a flood story myth around the same time period? Maybe this isn't the first time humanity has had a global catastrophe with a near mass extinction event. Perhaps humanity has been crushed only to rise again many times over, and it just takes us a while to forget what has already happened and how to avoid it. Afterall, the great pyramids have conjecture over when they were actually built. Some believe they have been around alot longer than what some Egyptologists say. We are even beginning to find some ancient underwater pyramids in Japan that are much older than Egypt's. There is just too much inconclusive data we still don't know about our own pasts.

http://www.lightnet.co.uk/informer/c...ions/japan.htm

Here's an interesting perspective on the whole "global warming" thing:

http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=77195

From David Deming's prepared congressional testimony:

"In 1995, I published a short paper in the academic journal Science. In that study, I reviewed how borehole temperature data recorded a warming of about one degree Celsius in North America over the last 100 to 150 years. The week the article appeared, I was contacted by a reporter for National Public Radio. He offered to interview me, but only if I would state that the warming was due to human activity. When I refused to do so, he hung up on me."

Another incident he cites is when a major researcher contacted him about the pressing need to "get rid of" the "The Medieval Warm Period (MWP)" because it flies in the face of what they are working so hard (and so successfully) to promote.

(This goes back to that hockey stick, too - when the mathematical models are tested by feeding the REAL environmental data leading up to both the MWP and the "little ice age" that followed it, they STILL come up with that "hockey stick" graph that is supposed to scare us all into abandoning life as we know it.)

hmmmm. :hrm: A conspiracy theory.

Regardless of whether or not it is do to us or a general cycle, I think there is enough evidence that we should be alarmed to the fact that changes are occurring.

Oh, it's unodoubtful that they plan on using Global Warming as a scare tactic to take advantage of the masses. It's what they do. It's what they THRIVE on.

It's too bad the sheep have no idea how to fight it.

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Originally Posted by OneRyt

Oh, it's unodoubtful that they plan on using Global Warming as a scare tactic to take advantage of the masses. It's what they do. It's what they THRIVE on.

It's too bad the sheep have no idea how to fight it.
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What advantages might those be?
I certainly agree that scare tactics go on all the time. Most derived from the government that have any impact.
But as far as I can tell most governments would much rather not try to combat global warming with all the complications it would bring economically.

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Originally Posted by Howetzer

hmmmm. :hrm: A conspiracy theory.

Regardless of whether or not it is do to us or a general cycle, I think there is enough evidence that we should be alarmed to the fact that changes are occurring.
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I wouldn't go so far as to call it a Conspiracy Theory. What it seems to me is an opportunity for many things - zillions of dollars in government grants to researchers, attention-getting headlines to media, power-grabbing opportunities to authoritarians and an end-of-the-world scenario ripe for the wannabe messiahs. It's too convenient for too many, and so the lemmings flock off along the path of least resistance.

In My Humble Opinion, of course. We've watched it happen too many times now - every single time to just quietly fade into oblivion once enough evidence stacks up to debunk the whole thing.

Big scary things get attention, and a lot of people, governments, lawyers and businesses exist and thrive on attention and fear. It doesn't take a clandestine group of shadows behind the scenes to coordinate it. All it takes is the combination of human insecurity and fear of death, coupled with the equally human characteristics of greed and arrogance.

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Originally Posted by pj

I wouldn't go so far as to call it a Conspiracy Theory. What it seems to me is an opportunity for many things - zillions of dollars in government grants to researchers, attention-getting headlines to media, power-grabbing opportunities to authoritarians and an end-of-the-world scenario ripe for the wannabe messiahs. It's too convenient for too many, and so the lemmings flock off along the path of least resistance.

In My Humble Opinion, of course. We've watched it happen too many times now - every single time to just quietly fade into oblivion once enough evidence stacks up to debunk the whole thing.

Big scary things get attention, and a lot of people, governments, lawyers and businesses exist and thrive on attention and fear. It doesn't take a clandestine group of shadows behind the scenes to coordinate it. All it takes is the combination of human insecurity and fear of death, coupled with the equally human characteristics of greed and arrogance.
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Good point pj. Your last paragraph is all to scary in itself.

In latter years there , as you said , were many debunked theories. Today we have some geographical evidence of some of the side effects of global warming.

• In Alaska ( I don't know if you have ever been there) they have post markers where the receding glaciers have been in the past years. As you get to more recent years the spread gets closer in years/ recession. The snowball effect.

• Pieces of the Antarctic the size of Rhode Island have fallen off.

• temperatures in the gulf stream that travel into the northern hemisphere are at record highs.

The ocean temerature data may be a a false data, I don't know.

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Originally Posted by Howetzer

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Good point pj. Your last paragraph is all to scary in itself.
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Hey... I'm not saying global warming isn't happening. It might be! What I'm saying is that there is evidence it has happened before - in both directions, in the course of human history, and that we've survived it. Core drillings revealing thousands of years of CO2 data show wild fluctuations in CO2 levels throughout history - and that in fact the earth is enjoying a period (geological period, albiet) of extremely LOW CO2 levels right now. Is it really warming, or do we just see it that way from our incredibly narrow perspective?

It goes on.

Something you don't hear people talking about much, for some reason, are things like the increase in the sun's radiation output right now and evidence of long solar cycles overlaying the known seven-year cycles that coordinate amazingly well with the earth's ice ages and warm periods. You don't hear about fossil evidence that the arctic regions were once tropical.

You also don't hear about the potential BENEFITS of global warming - if in fact it is even happening. During that MWP, crops flourished and people prospered as growing seasons got longer, less fuel was needed during winters, fauna thrived and with it hunting yields and more.

And here we are looking at the last hundred years of human activity coinciding with what really amounts to the tiniest of fluctuations in temperature and deciding that we really should kill off 3/4 of our population, scrap all automobiles, industry and most energy usage, quit farming and all else, choosing to believe that THIS particular time it really IS us and that it is up to us to "save the planet." It is kind of nutty to even look at the past couple centuries and call it "normal" at all. What if THIS is the aberration, and we're just now starting to come out of it?

And people lay awake at night worrying about this stuff when they could be having perfectly wonderful lucid dreams!

What would they gain from instilling fear in the masses?

Sure I could write up a huge essay like answer, but I can sum it up in a few words.

Suggestive minds.

(okay, I decided to make an essay like answer)

They give us fear, we look to them for answers. With the power in their hands, they feel more and more like a dictatorship. Once a certain gov't style progresses, it always finds a way to corruption. Democracy is no exception.

The problem doesn't stand in finding a way to beat global warming, as I've stated many times before, the fact that humans have developed intelligence that makes it possible to do what we're doing is evidence enough, that what is happening, is probably a natural step in evolution.

Come on, do you really think we can kill the earth? If anything, it will shuffle it's feet and kill us all. Or make an attempt at it (a test) to see if we can change our inner-most nature for the better. At which point, human's will have huge differences amongst intelligence levels etc. and it will be a fresh new world.

Intelligence is natural. Intelligence is natural.

Stop being a doomsayer, and feeding on fear, you apathetic excuse for a race.

Isn't it amazing, we've been blessed with all of these beautiful emotions, yet as a whole, the human race is still able to stand for complete apathy. (We really must not be as intelligent as we think)

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Originally Posted by OneRyt

Democracy is no exception.
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Democracy is mob rule.

Fear is used to manipulate mobs.

'nuff said.

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Originally Posted by pj

Democracy is mob rule.

Fear is used to manipulate mobs.

'nuff said.
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qft.

Oh, how it's true.

goddamn the world needs me right now... they just failed to setup any kind of system that allows people with idea's to make things better.

What a failure of a system.

You must learn our way for 20 years (our way sucks ass btw) before you can have a respected opinion!

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Are things changing? Sure. Will they continue to? Guaranteed. Is MAN making it happen? We MIGHT be having the SLIGHTEST influence regarding climate, but the more I study it, the less likely it appears to be happening or even possible.[/b]

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The grossest understatement I have ever heard. This is like saying a murderer was not really responsible for killing someone because it was actually the gun/bullett/knife that did the killing - not the person.

For all those who said global warming has happened before - never like the climate crisis we are experiencing now! Consider the experiments purported within the slide show that depict the CO2 readings from antarctica - over the past 650 000 years, the Earth has never nearly had such high temperature or CO2 readings as it has in the past 40 years. Six hundred and fifty thousand years!

But I am sure the skeptics and media will reassure you and tell you, "Oh well, that is just El Nino. Do not worry. We do not really need to do anything." Typical excuses just like people make when they pile on garbage to an overflowing can, "Oh, someone else will take care of it. It's natural, it will just go on the ground anyway."

"But O'nus! What about the medieval warming?!" That medieval "warming" was nothing at all comapred to the warming now. Consider the slides within the show.

"Nooo, it is just a natural causation. We do not have to worry." I find this response funny as it is only found in public media and never found in any scholarly or environment journals. It would almost be an insult and sophomoric to say it to an environmental specialist. In the past 650 000 years the entire planet has never seen such activity and in the history of human-kind we have never seen such a population increase. Furthermore, consider that nearly every country in the world has signed the Kyoto agreement except Australia and the United States of America. Why?! Why have they not? Especially America?! Frankly, it pisses me off. Especially to see the crap spewed over the media to make lousy excuses and the gross amount of pathetic procrastination.

Furthermore, why argue the postualted facts? What is gained from arguing this evidence? The facilitations proposed in fact offer a national profit for countries - there will be no deficit! Why argue movements to make environmental issues no longer an issue? Money is certainly not too gain for it - consider the loss of sales in Ford and GM for their lack of fuel-efficient cars. So why argue these propositions? To comfort and neglect the evidence that there could be some serious global threats?

"Oh, I do not think I will go to the doctors this year..or brush..or eat well" Two years down the road, you no longer have a tooth and you die of a heart attack!

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Originally Posted by Howetzer

What advantages might those be?
I certainly agree that scare tactics go on all the time. Most derived from the government that have any impact.
But as far as I can tell most governments would much rather not try to combat global warming with all the complications it would bring economically.
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I really think this focus is digressive and out of paranoia. I agree that the American media has been rather hostile and susceptible to many theorists... it seems that America is chock full of theorists but I see little activists...

However, I must repeat this analogy:

Let me ask you this. Let us say you are living in a neighborhood that has incredibly high crime rates. So you and all your neighbours get together and agree to do X task in order to bring down the crime (does not matter what the task is, just something that deters the crime, ie. stand in front lawn, set up motion lights, etc.). Now let us say that all your neighbors, except two, agree to this. Then one of these neighbors has the audacity to start selling weapons, throwing parties, having too much sex, and robbing your other neighbours! What would you do..?

I use this as an analogy for the Kyoto agreement. I would have held off on the exaggeration, but America is far too responsible for contributing to the current climate crisis.

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The debate isn't whether it's happening or not, it's if man or nature is the source. I think man has affected it, but not on a significant level. The Earth's climate changes over time, even when humans weren't on the Earth, why should we now believe that the Earth is changing because of us? I see Al Gore's movie as more of a publicity stunt/money maker more than a source of information, Al Gore isn't an expert on the subject. The Earth is changing, but humans aren't making it change, and there's nothing we can do to stop it, we have to learn to adjust.

zOMG it hasn't happened like it is now! It must be terrifying.

relax, and enjoy the show.

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Originally Posted by zxc

The debate isn't whether it's happening or not, it's if man or nature is the source. I think man has affected it, but not on a significant level. The Earth's climate changes over time, even when humans weren't on the Earth, why should we now believe that the Earth is changing because of us? I see Al Gore's movie as more of a publicity stunt/money maker more than a source of information, Al Gore isn't an expert on the subject. The Earth is changing, but humans aren't making it change, and there's nothing we can do to stop it, we have to learn to adjust.
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We are aware of the problem. What do you suggest we do then? Let our dogs take care of it?

I knew someone was going to say the it was some publicity stunt on Al Gore's part. I knew that while watching the movie. However, after seeing his exhaustive efforts to reference all of the research to other people - not himself! - it was easier to believe. Not too mention, Al Gore is not the cause of the climate crisis.

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zOMG it hasn't happened like it is now! It must be terrifying.

relax, and enjoy the show[/b]

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The sarcastic responses I hear are typically from people who will refuse to take action or even vote. Yes, enjoy the show, and make sure to do nothing in life to bring about a change for things.

It is time to take responsibility for things in the world instead of making up excuses of why not to. Why is it that global issues are alwasy brushed off and seen as a selfish act? I have seen many scientific journals, even in my school library, publishing about climate problems which have not been seen before with such magnitude. Yet the public procrastinate and debate it. Why? Are these the same people who "will take care of their taxes tomorrow" or "take out the garbage later!' or "call my mom on Monday"??

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Originally Posted by OneRyt

Come on, do you really think we can kill the earth?
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We can and have killed thousands of species. I admit the rocks and cockroaches will probably endure.

So either we can assume human activity is causing global warming, and start trying to reduce pollution, use less gas, come up with more reliable forms of energy. The worst thing that happens is the world is cleaner, and we have less dependence on psychotic fundamentalist middle-eastern countries and immoral greedy oil companies.

Or we can carry on as we have, assuming this is a natural phenomenon. The worst thing that happens is that we are wrong, and the world as we know it is possibly destroyed.

It's kind of like why you buy insurance.

(whoops double post)

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Originally Posted by O

We are aware of the problem. What do you suggest we do then? Let our dogs take care of it?

Al Gore is not the cause of the climate crisis.
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If it's the Earth's natural changes, then there is nothing we can do to stop it. And if you believe that people are causing the change, how can you say he's not the cause of the crisis? He drives, rides planes, goes on long trips to win votes, he's just as guilty as any other person.

The real inconvenient truth is that there are thousands of things that are going wrong.
To try and address something is to say you are a doomsayer. :shakehead2:

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Stop being a doomsayer, and feeding on fear, you apathetic excuse for a race.[/b]

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Now that is pathetic.
Why not try to address a problem rather than shrug it off for another generation?
That is what makes us intelligent. The ability to think and plan in the future. Planning ahead. :shock: What a concept.
Ignoring issues is another human trait =greed.

Maybe I won't worry about saving for retirement. Social security will be here.
Ahhh fuck health insurance, what are the chances of my family getting hurt.
Maybe I am just a doomsayer.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Onus")</div>

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It is time to take responsibility for things in the world instead of making up excuses of why not to. Why is it that global issues are alwasy brushed off and seen as a selfish act? I have seen many scientific journals, even in my school library, publishing about climate problems which have not been seen before with such magnitude. Yet the public procrastinate and debate it. Why? Are these the same people who "will take care of their taxes tomorrow" or "take out the garbage later&#33;&#39; or "call my mom on Monday"??[/b]

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Originally Posted by O

-There were major issues with overpopulation, global warming, etc.

-Why do most people overlook this..? Because, frankly, humans are freaking lazy-ass human beings and we can not take responsibility for things&#33; Stop procrastinating&#33;
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I personally do not have sympathy on our race, and I fully agree about the procrastination part. (and im not satanic or anthing) I believe that anyone who throws their life away early in school (ie, start doing drugs and never gets back on his feet) they should die, and thats almost 1/3 of my population at my school. Those people don&#39;t even accept what their given. At least if they tried in school they could accomplish something, but instead they waste resources, which in-tern kills our planet.
Now my next issue might be touchy, but i am describing my full opinon (and everyone has the right to do that). I have nothing against special needs people, but if there isn&#39;t a chance in a special needs person&#39;s life to be normal, and act functionally, I think they shouldn&#39;t be kept alive, its a waste of resources, which kill the plant.
It&#39;s not hard to help the enviornment, in fact its really easy, to fix up the hole down in Antarctica, you just take three oxygen molecules from the air and make ozone. Yet, who is going to "waste" money on that? Obvisously not Politicians, and they have the money to help. Alas politicians, I found out, don&#39;t think logically and instead of helping the enviornment, they use the money for greed, and power, and we as a society watch helplessly. Most of us just go along with it, which is worse&#33;

It&#39;s funny that you can write a large response as you have, yet still are unable to understand my stance on the issue.

Perhaps if you read my posts before you posted, I wouldn&#39;t have to reply with a sarcastic comment. (sarcasm given, where I didn&#39;t feel like repeating myself)

(Over-population won&#39;t be a problem for long)

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Originally Posted by zxc

The debate isn&#39;t whether it&#39;s happening or not, it&#39;s if man or nature is the source. I think man has affected it, but not on a significant level. The Earth&#39;s climate changes over time, even when humans weren&#39;t on the Earth, why should we now believe that the Earth is changing because of us? I see Al Gore&#39;s movie as more of a publicity stunt/money maker more than a source of information, Al Gore isn&#39;t an expert on the subject. The Earth is changing, but humans aren&#39;t making it change, and there&#39;s nothing we can do to stop it, we have to learn to adjust.
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Have any of you nay-sayers of the facts even seen the movie? Al Gore couldn&#39;t care less about being president again and it&#39;s definitely not about him trying to get back into office. One of the main reasons for him wanting to be president initially was to better tackle this very subject. This is a subject he has been studying since his time in college almost 30 years ago and has fought to pass a multitude of regulations on the subject while other congressmen continually try to doubt the facts and skirt responsibility. Hell, Gore even spawned the kyoto agreement so I don&#39;t know what the hell you&#39;re talking about, this definitely isn&#39;t something new to him.

It&#39;s this kind of postulating and having too much time on your hands, whilst doing nothing to help, that keeps this problem raging at the forefront of everyone&#39;s lives. Give me a break. Conspiracy theories about the environment? I&#39;m surprised you would have enough free time to be able to think of possible conspiracy theories with almost no basis in reality, kudos on that. On a more serious note though, if you can&#39;t feel the earth&#39;s changes over the past few years you must not get out much or have done one too many inhalants because it&#39;s about as obvious as getting kicked in the groin. The reasons for these dramatic changes have been equally obvious, Gore&#39;s movie just spells it out again for the average joe in big bold letters. Just as any normal person would understand coffee is hot without a label, any sane person would know we are at the root of, most, if not all the drastic changes to our planet. The way you are doubting these facts, is simply another way of diverting responsibility. You aren&#39;t one of those people that would get angry if you spilled hot coffee on yourself and blame McDonalds, are you? Hey maybe McDonalds killed Kennedy while they were at it. If anyone feels insulted by my comments, you should be, because this isn&#39;t a laughing or speculating matter... it&#39;s actually pretty f*ing grave. Unfortunately this time- no if&#39;s, and&#39;s or but&#39;s

I never said it wasn&#39;t happening, I believe that it&#39;s the Earth&#39;s natural climate changes rather than the release of CO2 for the past 100 years. If we try to fight it, which I don&#39;t think is possible, cars aren&#39;t the only/biggest problem. How do you plan to stop volcanos from releasing massive amounts of CO2? Why do you think the ice age happened and stopped without people on the Earth, and why would the Earth&#39;s climate suddenly stop changing when humans start developing? It&#39;s not a conspiracy theory either, it&#39;s just a different view.

How many species have survived Ice Ages?

Only a handful I&#39;m sure... through their proper methods of survival. It&#39;s time to show that intelligence can lead to better survival.

edit: I&#39;ll be willing to bet after the next ice age, multiple intelligent species will emerge.

If any of you have National Geographic which im sure you do you need to watch Naked Science. It has an interesting episode premeiring today about the human race is coming to an end in about the next 80 years or so. I beleive that it discusses global warming, war and whatnot. If you are interested as I am you must see this.

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Originally Posted by OneRyt

It&#39;s funny that you can write a large response as you have, yet still are unable to understand my stance on the issue.

Perhaps if you read my posts before you posted, I wouldn&#39;t have to reply with a sarcastic comment. (sarcasm given, where I didn&#39;t feel like repeating myself)

(Over-population won&#39;t be a problem for long)
[/b]

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Sorry :oops:

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Originally Posted by OneRyt

How many species have survived Ice Ages?

Only a handful I&#39;m sure... through their proper methods of survival. It&#39;s time to show that intelligence can lead to better survival.

edit: I&#39;ll be willing to bet after the next ice age, multiple intelligent species will emerge.
[/b]

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Being half Sami - Finnish Eskimo - I&#39;d be fine with that.

Seriously... try giving this a read:

http://epw.senate.gov/repwhitepapers/63410...old%20Media.pdf

It isn&#39;t the end-all by any stretch, but it is a nice summary of why taking such a one-sided view of this whole thing is kind of nutty - and how this really HAS been manipulated... over and over and over again, whenever things start changing one way or the other.

How many times in the past 100 years has the global warming/global cooling argument come up and been used in an effort to justify tyranny? The answer is in there, along with a whole lot of VERY good questions.

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Originally Posted by zxc

I never said it wasn&#39;t happening, I believe that it&#39;s the Earth&#39;s natural climate changes rather than the release of CO2 for the past 100 years. If we try to fight it, which I don&#39;t think is possible, cars aren&#39;t the only/biggest problem. How do you plan to stop volcanos from releasing massive amounts of CO2? Why do you think the ice age happened and stopped without people on the Earth, and why would the Earth&#39;s climate suddenly stop changing when humans start developing? It&#39;s not a conspiracy theory either, it&#39;s just a different view.[/b]

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Well put. The effects of humanity are just a drop in the bucket when it comes to the factors driving climate change. A large problem we&#39;re facing is that only scientists planning on doing pro-global warming research get funding. No one wants to give money to someone saying that humans have no impact on the environment, it&#39;s too politically incorrect right now.

Oh no, volcano&#39;s cause CO2 too&#33;&#33;111111

That is why it is called a cycle. The earth has spewed out and taken back CO2 for ages. It&#39;s a balance. Volcanoes are part of that balance. We are fucking up that balance, perhaps change it to a new balance, a balance that can sustain no life but bacterial one.

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Originally Posted by zxc

If it&#39;s the Earth&#39;s natural changes, then there is nothing we can do to stop it. And if you believe that people are causing the change, how can you say he&#39;s not the cause of the crisis? He drives, rides planes, goes on long trips to win votes, he&#39;s just as guilty as any other person.
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I am saying that Al Gore is not the one who is making hurricane&#39;s occur and the dramatic increase of CO2. Of course each human is equally responsible for contributing to global warming. However, keep in mind that the United States of America are the highest contributors of CO2 than any other country.

I do not understand why people are constantly arguing against these facts. Why? That is like arguing how common AIDS is and saying, "Oh it is natural, we are all going to die somehow." Sure, we can take an apathetic approach to it and do nothing about - let them die. Or, you can get off your hands and take responsibility for something - accept that you have contributed to globabl problems. If not, you can still do something to help rather than argue against why you should not do it.

God, it feels like arguing with a young-one about why they should help pick up garbage around the house, "Why? It&#39;s not my garbage&#33; I don&#39;t wanna&#33; I like it there&#33; So what? Garbage will just come there later&#33;" Pick it up&#33;

"Natural changes"? Is it really natural to have about ten-fold the amount of CO2 the planet has had in the past 650 000 years?

~

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Originally Posted by Neruo

Oh no, volcano&#39;s cause CO2 too&#33;&#33;111111

That is why it is called a cycle. The earth has spewed out and taken back CO2 for ages. It&#39;s a balance. Volcanoes are part of that balance. We are fucking up that balance, perhaps change it to a new balance, a balance that can sustain no life but bacterial one.
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Read about the theory of Gaia.

I have a major complaint about the Gaia theory which I would like to share:

If we are incidentally manipulating our world to meet our standards of living, what about the Earths standard for living and existing? Our population is very well on the brink of exceeding the food surplus that the Earth can supply - a farm can only produce so much food.

I think this rounds my complaint up better than a long-winded explanation.

~

Just for the record, the new Canadian government has announced that they will not ratify the Kyoto protocal. I think all countries are supposed to be like %6 below the emissions released in 1994 by 2012. Don&#39;t quote me, but i think that&#39;s it.

I&#39;ve seen the movie. Found it very interesting. If you guys like that, look for a movie called Who Killed the Electric Car. You conspiracy theorists will have a field day with that one, but i liked that one too. Humanity is almost certainly responsible for the upswell in temperature. Seriously guys, that&#39;s just how it is. Many leading scientists are saying the same thing: it&#39;s time for some action, and that action is greenhouse gas reduction.

I will agree that this movie is "propoganda" in the sense that Al Gore will probably be making another run at being president, and i feel this is evident by the tagline already quoted on the first page of this thread "vote for politicians who are environmentally concious." It&#39;s right at the end of the movie. BUT that doesn&#39;t change the facts or the evidence to back them up. Al Gore has been pursuing this issue for almost three decades. He knows what he&#39;s talking about. He learned about this stuff in college. Watch the movie.

There have been doomsday prophets since the beginning of time. Every generation has someone or some group of people saying "things have gone too far. We need a change."

The world is not going to end because of this, humanity might die off though. If all of us ignorant fucking humans die off, i personally don&#39;t care. The earth will bounce back, things will be fine.

We, or most of us just might not be here any more. Don&#39;t bitch about it if it happens. We were all warned.

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Originally Posted by O

I am saying that Al Gore is not the one who is making hurricane&#39;s occur and the dramatic increase of CO2. Of course each human is equally responsible for contributing to global warming. However, keep in mind that the United States of America are the highest contributors of CO2 than any other country.

I do not understand why people are constantly arguing against these facts. Why? That is like arguing how common AIDS is and saying, "Oh it is natural, we are all going to die somehow." Sure, we can take an apathetic approach to it and do nothing about - let them die. Or, you can get off your hands and take responsibility for something - accept that you have contributed to globabl problems. If not, you can still do something to help rather than argue against why you should not do it.

God, it feels like arguing with a young-one about why they should help pick up garbage around the house, "Why? It&#39;s not my garbage&#33; I don&#39;t wanna&#33; I like it there&#33; So what? Garbage will just come there later&#33;" Pick it up&#33;

"Natural changes"? Is it really natural to have about ten-fold the amount of CO2 the planet has had in the past 650 000 years?

~
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There are 2 sides to everything, people aren&#39;t the cause of every change in the world, I still don&#39;t see why you expect the earth to come to a standstill once we start producing things. There are scientists who argue that the rising temperature naturally causes the amount of CO2 to rise, not the other way around. What about the large amount of CO2 that enters the atmosphere as part of the water cycle from the sea into the air? At 6 billion pounds, humans are responsible for less than 5% of CO2 in the atmosphere, 60 billion tons circulate just because of vegetation. We&#39;re just at the peak of a change that has been going on for 25,000 years ago. 15,000 years ago the earth warmed up enough to stop the glaciers, 8,000 years ago the Bering Strait was drowned, and since the end of the ice age, the earths temperature has risen 16 degrees F, and sea levels have risen 300 feet, what caused that? Because it wasn&#39;t humans.

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Originally Posted by O

I have a major complaint about the Gaia theory which I would like to share:

If we are incidentally manipulating our world to meet our standards of living, what about the Earths standard for living and existing? Our population is very well on the brink of exceeding the food surplus that the Earth can supply - a farm can only produce so much food.

I think this rounds my complaint up better than a long-winded explanation.

~
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You didn&#39;t read everything about the Gaia theory then. :)

Read about the Big Crunch theory as well everyone... :)

i really didn&#39;t like it.

i know the issue... and i agree with a lot of the points... but i don&#39;t like the way it&#39;s represented in the movie. the movie just reaffirmed my contempt for politicians. the 2000 election had absolutely nothing to do with global warming... yet it found it&#39;s way into the film. al gore&#39;s family has absolutely nothing to do with global warming... yet his father&#39;s award winning black angus accolades and his traditional farm eked it&#39;s way into this subject.

we&#39;re going to have to survive our impression on this planet, but first we have to survive eachother... and i don&#39;t think that will be possible with tools like al gore leading the charge.

my two cents.

Agreed with the poster above me.


People who use fear as a tool should never be trusted in positions of power.
If a person wants to make a bid at gaining power due to genuine concern for an issue, and wants to present it in a way that is free from bias. (i.e. all angles are explored, including the one&#39;s con to your subject)

If a person cannot do this, and leaves information out, they cannot be allowed in a position where they are accountable for any form of nation/internation.

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Originally Posted by jacobo

i really didn&#39;t like it.

i know the issue... and i agree with a lot of the points... but i don&#39;t like the way it&#39;s represented in the movie. the movie just reaffirmed my contempt for politicians. the 2000 election had absolutely nothing to do with global warming... yet it found it&#39;s way into the film. al gore&#39;s family has absolutely nothing to do with global warming... yet his father&#39;s award winning black angus accolades and his traditional farm eked it&#39;s way into this subject.

we&#39;re going to have to survive our impression on this planet, but first we have to survive eachother... and i don&#39;t think that will be possible with tools like al gore leading the charge.

my two cents.
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Yeah.. I have to concur here.. I did not like this unnecessary interpolations.. I knew once I saw them that it was deviating from the real topic (plus his Carl Sagan wannabe-narrative was kinda lame).

Just to clear things up.. are you guys referrring to me as a conspirator theorist..?

~

I think that everyone should watch this movie.
I am not an Al Gore fan. Now, because he is now fighting for a cause that I feel strongly about, I am not going to change my stance for the guy.
But with Al do respect, I think he stuck to the topic very well. He may have used his past political background for some weight and pointed at the current administration a few subtle times. But I did not see at all where he is looking to gain anything but awareness about the Global warming issue.
To use the leverage he had is what any one would do.
If it were a no name standing up there, then it would even have less credibility than it does outside of the scientific community.
I am not saying you should believe every word he says. You should not do that with anyone, IMO. Much less a politician. Similar to voting, it is your responsibility to gather your own facts too.

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Originally Posted by O

Just to clear things up.. are you guys referrring to me as a conspirator theorist..?
~
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If we were, would it matter?

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Originally Posted by O

Just to clear things up.. are you guys referrring to me as a conspirator theorist..?

~
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not me. i agree that it&#39;s an issue but i just feel the movie might have been a step in the wrong direction.

O&#39;nus, whatever problems humans are causing to the environment, we should take action to change things. I don&#39;t know anybody who disagrees with that. The problem a lot of us have is not knowing whom to believe. Some scientists say that the changes Earth is going through are not significantly caused by humans and that there is nothing we can do about them, and that the far left is greatly exaggerating what is happening. Then there are the far left claims that go as far as saying that we are going to run out of oxygen by 2020. I was taught in the 10th grade that the chopping down of the Brazilian Rain Forest would lead to a world loss of oxygen within 20 years. Guess what.... That was 18 years ago. I don&#39;t know whom to believe, but I know that it is neither the far left nor the far right. Both Rush Limbaugh and Al Gore are full of B.S., along with what they represent.

The last person on Earth I am going to believe about anything is Al Gore. I have seen his lack of credibility way too many times. Did he really say something about a population boom from 2 billion to 9 billion in 30 years? Then he made a false statement about something very serious. I was alive 30 years ago, and I remember that the human population on Earth was 4 billion. It is now 6 billion. Somebody is lying.

Al Gore was such a manipulative whiny ass about losing the 2000 election that I can look at that alone and know the depths of his personality disturbance. He also claimed that he invented the internet. Go figure. He also adamantly argued as Vice President that Hussein had stockpiles of WMD&#39;s and needed to be overthrown. The Clinton-Gore Administration was one of the major bodies that gave the WMD intelligence to Bush. But when Bush was President, Gore got on television and yelled that Bush made up the WMD stuff and screamed, "He betrayed this country&#33;" If Gore said that four plus four is eight, I would immediately start questioning it.

I was trying to overlook those facts Damn it, Universal&#33;
There needs too be some one Bipartisan to sponsor this type of campaign.
Hmmmm, Oprah...No
Jessie Jackson....That was a joke :wink:
How about Jessica Alba, I would believe anything she says. :content:

I do think his referring to his farm and younger years was an attempt to make us all look at our own lives and reminisce.

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Originally Posted by OneRyt

If we were, would it matter?
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Well I would certainly be curious as to what I am theorising about.

~

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Originally Posted by Universal

O&#39;nus, whatever problems humans are causing to the environment, we should take action to change things. I don&#39;t know anybody who disagrees with that. The problem a lot of us have is not knowing whom to believe. Some scientists say that the changes Earth is going through are not significantly caused by humans and that there is nothing we can do about them, and that the far left is greatly exaggerating what is happening. Then there are the far left claims that go as far as saying that we are going to run out of oxygen by 2020. I was taught in the 10th grade that the chopping down of the Brazilian Rain Forest would lead to a world loss of oxygen within 20 years. Guess what.... That was 18 years ago. I don&#39;t know whom to believe, but I know that it is neither the far left nor the far right. Both Rush Limbaugh and Al Gore are full of B.S., along with what they represent.

The last person on Earth I am going to believe about anything is Al Gore. I have seen his lack of credibility way too many times. Did he really say something about a population boom from 2 billion to 9 billion in 30 years? Then he made a false statement about something very serious. I was alive 30 years ago, and I remember that the human population on Earth was 4 billion. It is now 6 billion. Somebody is lying.

Al Gore was such a manipulative whiny ass about losing the 2000 election that I can look at that alone and know the depths of his personality disturbance. He also claimed that he invented the internet. Go figure. He also adamantly argued as Vice President that Hussein had stockpiles of WMD&#39;s and needed to be overthrown. The Clinton-Gore Administration was one of the major bodies that gave the WMD intelligence to Bush. But when Bush was President, Gore got on television and yelled that Bush made up the WMD stuff and screamed, "He betrayed this country&#33;" If Gore said that four plus four is eight, I would immediately start questioning it.
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Yeah, this is true. I must say that I am still concerned over the major climate crisis, Kyoto agreement, and population control.

I would not want Gore back in either (even though I am not American).. just some one who is not selfish or war mongering.

~

:bowdown: I&#39;ve yet to see this documentary&#33; But I experience global warming every day. This winter sucks, yesturday I was wearing SANDALS. I remember ten years ago having to wear a coat meant for northern states...how I miss the cold, or at least a breeze

the summer heat has gotten horrible. the suns heat in july is like putting your head in an oven, im not joking - becuase thats how everyone else in the heat described it&#33; it didnt help that my sisters car had no AC and her car heats up *I was thanking God her car didnt explode, though it did spew strange over hated substance all the time*

one time after being stuck in traffic in her car I got very sick. I didnt realize how sick I was though. . . for days when ever I turned my head the whole room would shake and my knees would rattle. I dont think I can survive the next summer&#33; ;__;

global warming..I hate you&#33;&#33;

I have to note here that this is the first winter that I have ever experienced in Canada where there has been next to no snow so far. We had a brief hour of a day or two of snow that quickly melted. I have not needed to wear a jacket on several days... in December&#33;&#33;

So much for all the cold stereotypes of Canada - it&#39;s January 3 and today had an estimated high of 10 C. 10 C&#33; That is just gross.

~

I&#39;m not saying that global warming is hoey, but I received this in the email today. How do you reconcile what this guy is saying against what Gore is saying?

http://www.caranddriver.com/columns/11408/...om-al-gore.html

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Originally Posted by Seeker

I&#39;m not saying that global warming is hoey, but I received this in the email today. How do you reconcile what this guy is saying against what Gore is saying?

http://www.caranddriver.com/columns/11408/...om-al-gore.html
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It is always good to see another side of the story.
I think what is misunderstood regardless of the facts, is how complicated weather is.
The US and Japan have been constructing supercomputers to simulate future weather patterns. Some astronomical amount of equations per second.
There are still vague results.

I would like to here from people closer to the source. Experts in the field. Some meteorologist, climatologist and the like, not Al Gore.
Where was Gore&#39;s data compiled? I don&#39;t recall.

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Originally Posted by Howetzer

I would like to here from people closer to the source. Experts in the field. Some meteorologist, climatologist and the like, not Al Gore.
Where was Gore&#39;s data compiled? I don&#39;t recall.[/
[/b]

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The more important question is HOW it was compiled. Spending some time finding source answers to that question will provide an education in how politics uses science that you won&#39;t soon forget. It will also be a revelation in just how much of an industry this whole thing has become, and how much power there is for tyrannical wannabes if this thing gets sold in its entirety as something man is doing or hopes to have any control over.

Look to cause/effect relationships and you&#39;ll start picking up on it.

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Originally Posted by Keeper

personaly, I think it would be interesting (though not safe, and deffinatly not cumftable) to see the end
[/b]

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I think it would be awesome. Imagine the emotion, the adrenaline rush, the excitement, fear, the everything.

It definently beats dying from other unnatural cause in my opinion, actually, other than dying from old age, I think this is the best way to go.

On a side not: 2005 was the warmest winter on record I believe in the US, and so December here in New Jersey has been over 6-7F above average, and so far January has been continuing that trend. Tomorrow is supposed to 70F - in January&#33;?&#33; I mean yeah we get those every now and then, but its a rollercoaster, it&#39;ll go up for a day or two and then return to normal, but it&#39;s been consistantly mild so far. It better get cold soon, I want to go snowboarding already :(

I think we will end up destroying ourselves. I simply do not have faith in the people who are in charge, that they will do anything - take any preventive measure before it is to late. The moment something goes seriosuly wrong, then they will try, but it will be to late by then.

And even worse, the people who don&#39;t give a shit simply because they might not be alive anymore by the time any of this happens.

I have just recently stumbled upon some further research relevant to the climate crisis.

Apparently, we are at the peak of exposure to the suns most extreme sun spots. In a matter of time, the sun spots will dissipate and help reduce the warming of the planet.

It must be recognized that there are countless contributions to this problem. We can not just throw the blame all at one thing - glaciers melting, humans CO2 levels, the sun, etc. They all contribute. What is inarguable is that humans are producing more pollution than ever before. Our species used to be completely self-sufficient but now we have adapted to industrialization.

I have also read an article about the most self-sufficient house made in North America. I can not recall the details verbatim but they have their own garden, solar pannel roofing that produces their energy, and many other methods of self-sufficiency. Apparently the cost to initially develop the house was high but to maintain the house each month costs a measily &#036;56&#33; How much do you have to pay for heat, electricity, water...?

I refuse to cite Al Gore on many things for his questionable credibility, but something that is fair is his point on self-sufficiency. Self-sufficiency is cheaper and sought after more and more by the population. Look at the profit margins for car companies out of North America that are producing environment-safe vehicles like the hybrid. Their cars are more fuel efficient and cost less - unlike Ford&#39;s new production lines. Let us not forget the recent hype about the Hummer&#39;s. Gas prices are going to go up and we will eventually run out of fossil fuel - therefore, we need to integrate new transportation methods anyway. It is killing two birds with one stone.

I also must ask why people are so resiliant to the Kyoto agreement? Why refuse to be environmentally safe? So you do not have to put different garbage in different containers..? I do not understand the apprehension and have not truly come into any counter-arguments against environmentalists besides ad hominems and the basic straw-man fallacies (ie. "Al Gore just wants to be president. Therefore, everything he says is obviously bup-kiss.")

Consider that the annual ski tours in Europe could not properly take place this year because of the lack of snow&#33; This is not just one variable&#39;s reponsibility - we are equally if not more responsible than ever. Even if we are not the primary contributors to the climate crisis, we are able to recognize it, unlike the sun&#33;

In the words of Ronald Wright:

"If we fail - if we blow up or degrade the biosphere so it can no longer sustain us - nature will merely shrug and conclude that letting apes run the laboratory was fun for a while but in the end a bad idea."

~

Eight of the last ten years have been the warmest on record in the world&#33; . (That is the inconvenient truth)
The warmest EVER in the lower 48 states.
January was the warmest on record in Ohio. The 4th warmest December.

In the past families had smaller homes with no insulation.
Now, although we have made advancements in insulation we have smaller families with three times the size house. It is as if we will just take what is there.
If the cookie jar is full...eat up. :cookiemonster:
We are gluttons.
Soon to be gluttons of punishments.

Ooops - nearly got involved in this debate&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;

But then I remembered that its my job... and I have to swtch off sometimes.

:content:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by slimslowslider

Ooops - nearly got involved in this debate&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;

But then I remembered that its my job... and I have to swtch off sometimes.

:content:[/b]

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If you kindly let me use your awesome signature we can let it slide. :lol:

So you are well informed?

I just got done watching the movie. Pretty simple. (I&#39;m no Al Gore fan, he&#39;s completely full of shit that working on a farm is really fun, amongst a lot of other things, and he could have left out the little personal plugs) but hard to argue with every peer-reviewed paper on the subject ever published (900+). If you can&#39;t understand that, you must be heavily invested in oil, or else a politician. (Those scientists, they have such an agenda, you just can&#39;t trust them...)

I&#39;m sure glad I don&#39;t have kids. We can console ourseleves with the fact that 99.9% of all species that ever existed on this planet have already gone extinct (if you believe in that sort of nonsense theory as well), so oh well, what a few hundred thousand more.

juroara I agree with you, for me this winter also sucked I mean I was also wearing sandals when I was supposed to be covered by pant , jacket, etc. And what people do not understand is that YES the Earth has a cycle there are natural CO2 emissions BUT we, with our technology are accelerating that cycle, I mean is it hard to understand :

Many many years ago there werre humans, and animal and volcanoes, emitting CO2.
Now there are humans, animal, volcanoes and a car that is used everyday for almost every huamn in the planet. Oh and gasoline is not efficient, more or less 25% of the energy a car gets from gasoline is used to move the car, the other 75% is heat/pollution (approximately) That means that there is something wrong with the actual technology, even the AC is wrong, becaus eit ´produces more heat than the heat removed from the room. Same with PCs, working all day in an office/school.

And something else, is not just the CO2 emissions, it also that we are polluting water, now you can&#39;t say " There is so much water in the Earth" because not all water is drinkable and all living things need water to survive.

And people that think that they alone can&#39;t make a change, well you have to tell other people you see doing wrong what they should do, because every bit helps. :content:

A pretty big thing that factors into this is how self-centered people can be. They want a new SUV, hell with it if that huge gas-guzzling thing contributes to global warming... some people are of the mentality that "it doesn&#39;t matter, what difference is one person going to make", so they continue in behaviors that are harmful for the climate. And yes, one person will probably have a very minimal effect, but when everyone is thinking like this, that they can personally be environmentally harmful without repercussions, then you have a problem.