Kidneys For Sale

[Chaos]

I saw something very interesting on the News yesterday. It seems that b/c of a kidney shortage, they are trying to make it legal for healthy people to be able to sell one of their kidneys. Many people are against it b/c they feel that the poor would be taken advantage of and that it would be too similar to certain black market practices in 3rd world countries. Though, you could also argue that more than 70,000 people are in need of a new kidney, and they would have a much better chance of getting one if this policy was made legal. Personally, I don't think I would sell one of my kidneys, but I am on the fence when it comes to making this legal. The arguments for both sides are convincing, and many moral dilemmas come into play in this issue. Then again, it is very much like the abortion issue I raised recently. So, if you can abort a baby, why not be able to donate a kidney? Hmmm... My question is, where do you stand? Do you think people should be able to sell one of their kidneys for money? If you had the opportunity to do so, would you sell one of your kidneys?

[Seeker]

My sister eventually died from Kidney disease. She had one transplant from my mother when whe was 19. That kidney lasted about 15 years. She spent another 4 after that on the waiting list. The strain from the rejection drugs and especially dialysis for that long put too much of a strain on her heart and she died a year after her second transplant from heart failure. So, am I for it? An unresounding HELL YES!!!!! My sister would probably be alive today if she could have bought one. Dialysis is tough on a person, with a larger pool of kidneys, you have a much better chance to get a perfect match, it also helps the person donating financially.

[Neruo]

Yes, not like poor people need 2 kidneys. I am for (controlled) prostitution. But to allow THIS kind of life-scarring prostitution, the actual selling of one's own body? The people that do it out of charity already give their kidney. I think a lot of poor people would see no other way out of their financial problems then this. Maybe you will get too much kidneys all of a sudden... dang: what is next? donor-eyeballs? Donor-limbs?

[Lord Toaster]

Hmm. I think it would have to be VERY carefully regulated, since the things would no doubt be very expensive, and unscruplous (spelling?) people could exploit ignorant poor people to make vast profit. I can't think of any way to control it well enough, so I'd have to say I'm against it. Maybe sometime in the future.

[Moonbeam]

While I totally sympathize with what you are saying Seeker, I have to agree with Neruo. What would be the limit? One problem is that so many organs from potential dead donors are wasted. There is a proposal to make donating an opt-out situation, rather than opt-in. So it is assumed that your organs can be used unless you say ahead of time no. That is how it is done in some countries already.

[Chaos]

Yeah. But, having a kidney removed is a very invasive procedure and could easily result in death. What if the doctor had an 'accident'? Since you are already signed up to donate one organ, they more than likely would be able to take the rest. This whole thing could turn into a black market scandal way too easily. You could never regulate kidney sales, b/c if it were legal at all, you know you would have some poorly trained doctors (or people pretending to be doctors) offering people this surgery.

[Neruo]

Yes I also understand Seeker. What should be done, if it isn't done already, is that the government should send out forms to Everyone every 3/4/5 years. Forms to sign up to become a donor of organs of your choice if you would die. They did that like 2 times in the last 25 years in the Netherlands. I certainly know that if I get such a form in my mailbox, I probably would sign it, I would love it if my body served a purpose after I died. If I have to actively look for a hospital or something, -heck, I don't even know where I could sign up to be a donor if I wanted to-, I probably would be to lazy to become a donor. - Edit: Yeah I just read moonbeam's post, that idea is even better, they should just make everyone a donor, yet the person can refuse to become one by signing out, and maybe even close relatives should be allowed to refuse their kin being donor if they don't like. There never would be a shortage then...

[King and God]

I think it should be allowed for people to sell their kidneys. It could come handy for me if I need one or two kidneys in the distant future.

[Kamikaze]

Yes, not like poor people need 2 kidneys. I am for (controlled) prostitution. But to allow THIS kind of life-scarring prostitution, the actual selling of one's own body? The people that do it out of charity already give their kidney. I think a lot of poor people would see no other way out of their financial problems then this. Maybe you will get too much kidneys all of a sudden... dang: what is next? donor-eyeballs? Donor-limbs?[/b] I completely agree. I mean you have to draw the line and letting someone who is living sell their organs I think is too much. I think that being a donater as previously said should be opt-out instead of opt-in but I don't think you should be allowed to sell your organs.

[TripleX223]

well i have no opinion on thsi subject, if i could sell one of my kidnetys, i wouldn't id either doante it, or keep it

[Chaos]

I completely agree. I mean you have to draw the line and letting someone who is living sell their organs I think is too much. I think that being a donater as previously said should be opt-out instead of opt-in but I don't think you should be allowed to sell your organs.[/b] I agree w/ this to some extent, but the thought of being a donor in general bothers me. Lets say I was in a car accident, and critically injured, and would die unless I had a lot of surgeries done. W/ organs being in such scarce supply, I fear that the doctors would be less likely to perform the surgeries to the best of their ability in hopes that I would die and they could take my organs. All they would really have to do is say that I sustained too many injuries from the car accident and that there was nothing they could do. Yeah... I know I'm paranoid...

[Merlin38]

But to allow THIS kind of life-scarring prostitution, the actual selling of one's own body? The people that do it out of charity already give their kidney. I think a lot of poor people would see no other way out of their financial problems then this. Maybe you will get too much kidneys all of a sudden... dang: what is next? donor-eyeballs? Donor-limbs?[/b] If an individual chooses to sell their body parts, then why should anyone prevent it? If money is the motivation for saving a person's life, isn't it worth it? And it is unlikely that organic eyes or limbs could be attatched to seperate humans. Doctors already encounter this problem with lungs. Organs that rely heavily on the nervous system can't graft onto a different system effectively.

[Lord Toaster]

If an individual chooses to sell their body parts, then why should anyone prevent it? If money is the motivation for saving a person's life, isn't it worth it?[/b] No. Exploitation would easily occur in 3rd world countries as is already happening to some extent. The current rate for a kidney in India is £500. How much are they selling for? I don't know, but it's obvious that these people are being exploited. If this already goes on without legal kidney trading, what would happen if it were legalised.

[Merlin38]

I was assuming that the topic was reffering to kidney sale in the U.S.

[Lord Toaster]

I was assuming that the topic was reffering to kidney sale in the U.S.[/b] Yes but obviously poor people in other countries will have kidneys bought off them at low prices, to be sold in the US at very high prices.

[Merlin38]

If it is a voluntary exchange that benefits both parties, then why do you object? You say that these people will be exploited, but the U.S. dollar goes a long way in undeveloped countries. And as I have stated earlier, medically compromised organs are rejected. People in underdeveloped countries cope with different diseases and living conditions. It is entirely possible that these people would not have organs that would match the needs of a person on the waiting list. This fact may be enough to prevent supposed 'exploitation'.

[wasup]

Err? I suspect it would be a LITTLE bit more closely monitered than that. I have a feeling you won't just be able to pack up a kidney and mail it to the government/hospital/etc., hence making the whole "Third world country exploitation" thing irrelevant. You won't be able to just "hand them" a kidney. It will probably be more like a formal signing up thing and all.

[Merlin38]

Yet another reality that dispess concerns of this proposed process. My point was not the only recquirement for selling kidneys, but merely one of the many things that would prevent misuse of the program.

[shark!]

fuck why should people have to play by your rules. if i wanna sell any part of me I should be allowed. let people make their own choices. If it was legalized it would be harder to exploit. there shouldn't be a limit.

[Merlin38]

Well, selling both of your kidneys might be a stretch.

[blade5x]

Yes I think people should be allowed. No I would not sell any one of mine. I wouldn't want to take a chance of only living off one, if one went at least I'd have a backup

[Neruo]

fuck why should people have to play by your rules. if i wanna sell any part of me I should be allowed. let people make their own choices. If it was legalized it would be harder to exploit. there shouldn't be a limit.[/b] I want to sell my daughter. She is MY flesh and blood, right? Oh, that isn't allowed? Then I will just force her to sell all her organs. After all, there aren't any limits.

[Neruo]

If an individual chooses to sell their body parts, then why should anyone prevent it? If money is the motivation for saving a person's life, isn't it worth it?[/b] So rich people will never have to give away kidneys again? Seriously, If this law passes, I don't think there will be much prostitutes, drug addicts or even single moms (to some extend) that have 2 kidneys. There are better ways to solve the donor problem, like stated before. And it is unlikely that organic eyes or limbs could be attatched to seperate humans. Doctors already encounter this problem with lungs. Organs that rely heavily on the nervous system can't graft onto a different system effectively.[/b] Yes that is correct. However that isn't the point. I was talking about how this concept if taken further will result in some pretty unethical situations.

[wasup]

"your flesh and blood" is an expression. She is not in fact "your" flesh and blood. She shares much of the composition of her flesh and blood with yours, but that does not make it yours. And even if it were identical, it would still belong to her. So no, you couldn't sell her body. Furthermore, what is the problem with "prostitutes, drug addicts, etc." walking around with one kidney? The second kidney does not provide a vital purpose, nor does the kidney lose a function when the other is gone. So, what's the problem with it? This wouldn't extend to other body parts because they are needed for a specific purpose... both eyes - depth perception (not to mention, easier to function in the world because you look "normal," which applies to all these as well). Arms and Legs - Obvious. Sure, if the one creating such a program is incredibly irresponsible and doesn't forsee any of these as slight possibilities, it could happen. However, obviously the person should make rules regarding this that either it wouldn't extend further, or you cannot sell things that are necessary (by that I mean, sell the amount by which you can no longer function). Oh, and also, as Merlin said, other body parts would not "work." And you say that isn't the point, but it really IS. Because the issue of it being taken further is irrelevant if it cannot be taken further, correct (e.g. It doesn't matter if unicorns have the ability to kill millions of people if unicorns don't exist)?

[Seeker]

All of the good points that have been raised against selling kidneys is one of the reasons it is illegal in the US. It is much easier to create a law that just says "NO" than to deal with all of the issues that arise. I agree though about more people donating, there are so many organs lost and the infrastructure is not really in place to deal with it efficiently. There is a small window to harvest organs after death.