Thread: Are Films Getting Too Sick?

It doesn't matter how sick they are, really. The audience knows what they're getting themselves into when the film's called " Teen rapist from the depths of the abyss. "

Originally Posted by bluefinger

I feel the same way. It's just hypocrisy, no matter how you look at it... people with double standards. If people truly want to tackle violence in society, they must focus on all aspects of the media, and not just one part of it. As a kid, I watched so many violent movies by staying up late without my parents knowing, so if anything, it's movies that should be in the spotlight and not games. The BBFC did a very good study on violence in video games and concluded that "though the violence in video games does disturb the younger gamers, all the violence is put into the perspective of survival, since the gamer has to keep his character alive in order to progress in the game, rather than solely concentrate on thinking of ways to kill the characters in the game". Quite different to what the media want to portray. I actually think movies have more of an effect on people purely because they don't have the interaction, and movies can recreate a much more real sense of reality. Without the interaction, if one sees something 'cool' on the screen, one would feel compelled to imitate what goes on the screen, whereas with video games, since you are interacting with the game, you can already do the things being shown on the screen, except in a virtual sense.

If anything, video games is just a new scapegoat used by people to white-wash the realities of bad parenting, indifferent gun laws and regulations, and also the harshness of society. It used to be rap music, and before that, rock music and even comic books, so it will blow over in its due course. Besides, the gaming industry is now bigger than hollywood, so its here to stay.[/b]

Agreed.

Originally Posted by NeAvO

Didn't the new Texas Chainsaw Massacre remake, use like 20 packets of fake blood? I think it was more actually.[/b]

How much in a packet?


RE the horror genre themes:

Some things are always the same e.g. Frankenstein was a moral tale,
and even today the victims are often the ones who have sinned e.g. H6 (a bum, 2 prostitutes), Hostel (lads misbehaving), and the Saw trilogy specifically plays with this idea as the motivation for Jigsaw's games.

There's also 'corruption of innocence' as almost a requirement.


RE being 'sick':
Is part of the duty of horror to push and question boundaries of acceptance, and taboos?
Or to challenge definitions of 'normal', some of which may be unhelpful, outdated or even ignorant?

Things that upset the audiences of Whale's 1931 Frankenstein are now almost kindergarten fare.
E.g. close-ups of people showing fear were considered shocking. Prior to that there were only silent movies (with few close ups) or theatre (viewed from a distance).

Horror movies frequently make the headlines, even get banned, but eventually become accepteptable and even normal.

What is this process?
Is it just desensitisation?
Like a doctor gets accustomed to blood 'n' guts?

Is it always a bad thing to become desensitised? Like 'necessary lies' perhaps?
Or is it just an expansion of experience?

And ultimately: does overall humanity and morality increase somehow through highlighting taboos and the discussion this creates?



In terms of what I actually enjoy watching - like most of you I prefer chiller-suspense stuff. Nothing better than a good ghost tale! I particularly like the Japanese ones - The Ring, The Grudge of course, but also Premonition, The Eye, Dumplings, Dark Water etc.

Oh and while I'm here waffling away, has anyone seen the Chinese movie House of Red Lanterns? IMO superb (also quite disturbing)

Did anyone else found 'hostel' to be pretty boring? Not enough gore. I did LAUGH when the Asian girl committed suicide. HA-HA-HA-HA! ... actually I did found it funny.


-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYu6fpaNrBA

Tarrantino bitch slapping some fat women that whines about violence in movies.

Originally Posted by Neruo

Did anyone else found 'hostel' to be pretty boring? Not enough gore.[/b]

Have you seen Ichi the Killer? Buckets!

I did LAUGH when the Asian girl committed suicide. HA-HA-HA-HA! ... actually I did found it funny.[/b]

It was a relief for the poor thing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYu6fpaNrBA

Tarrantino bitch slapping some fat women that whines about violence in movies.[/b]

Ta for the link - good one
LOL
Unfortunately it was no match - although he did loose his cool at the end.

Not sure about your language though her point was... whatever... despite the fact she was a fat woman. Sorry to proselytise - but I guess you're just pushing boudaries eh ?

Originally Posted by Neruo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYu6fpaNrBA

Tarrantino bitch slapping some fat women that whines about violence in movies.[/b]

That was fun to watch... even though the woman has a couple of points (but goes about the wrong way of expressing them), Tarantino pretty much hands her fat ass to her on a platter.

im no mary whitehouse but take marylin manson fr instance, you can dismiss and say hey its just music but he does feature highly in more than one high profile murder case, and there was that scottish kid who became so obsessed with that bad vampire flick with aaliyah in it-he chopped up his best mate when he asked for the video back that he was watching 6 times a day. "cos the queen of the damned told him too".
"if you stare into the abyss long enough it stares into you."
or a modern quote from spidey 3 which is a take on the one above
"how long can any man look into the darkness before he finds it in himself?"
besides horror movie fans freak me out, i like a horror movie sometimes but if you aint scared by them theres something wrong with you.

Originally Posted by eightyape

im no mary whitehouse but take marylin manson fr instance, you can dismiss and say hey its just music but he does feature highly in more than one high profile murder case, and there was that scottish kid who became so obsessed with that bad vampire flick with aaliyah in it-he chopped up his best mate when he asked for the video back that he was watching 6 times a day. "cos the queen of the damned told him too".
"if you stare into the abyss long enough it stares into you."
or a modern quote from spidey 3 which is a take on the one above
"how long can any man look into the darkness before he finds it in himself?"
besides horror movie fans freak me out, i like a horror movie sometimes but if you aint scared by them theres something wrong with you.[/b]

I'm actually pretty hard to scare with horror movies... or at least the current crop fail to scare me, merely make me feel somewhat queasy (which isn't the same as being scared). I like a good horror movie (one which can scare me), since with bad ones, I just end up feeling cynical and pretty much predicting when all the shock and 'scares' happen. Horror movies should be about suspense and tension, being unpredictable and able to bring about the fear of the unknown (at least when watching the movie), not about senseless gore. If anything, Event Horizon is a gory horror movie which I liked, because despite it being gory, it was actually pretty scary. And anything which has hell in it is bound to be a little 'messy'.

However, you honestly can't blame Marilyn Manson for influencing kids in certain ways. First of all, the kid you mentioned must have been messed up in the head long before he listened to/watched the music or movies you've mentioned. Same thing goes with video games, books, etc. There will always be someone who will take things out of context or too far, but that doesn't mean it was the fault of whatever he read/saw/listened/played...

I'm sure there's nothing wrong with me just because most horror movies fail to scare me. I just don't get scared easily in reality...

I think that films that just use gore for the sake of gore, and not much are just stupid. Don't get me wrong, I love me a good zombie flick, but that is because zombies are awesome. When I go to see a horror movie I want to be scared, not disgusted.

I think it's terribly crazy that horror films and music gets blamed for things that people do. I think that the people who do bad things should take responsibility, and should be the only people who shoulder the burden of blame. Nobody ever forces anyone else to watch a scary movie, or listen to Marilyn Manson. Come on. Plug your ears, close your eyes. It's just music, and though you may not agree with the message, a person does have the right to creatively express their views. I actually think the movie, "Natural Born Killers" has a great message, though it gets blamed for many violent crimes. It shows how the fear based media of the US creates violence more than anything, really. I agree with that.

dont get me wrong i think a well made horror film is a good social thing, it reminds us of the boundaries of what is acceptable behaviour, but coupled with social ills and obsessive personalities the consequences can be horrific, and marylin manson appeals to the darker side of human nature and glorifies an obsession with fear, its all about tipping points and going a little too far, id stab manson up soon as look at him cos hes not selling his shit to stable people, hes just playing a market and the majority of his market are impressionable disillusioned teenagers and he plays on the adolescent feeling of being an outsider, hes no worse than ronald mcdonald - in fact very similar- marketing a very adult product to an impressionable audience who do not have solid moral grounding, and whos to say those columbine kids would have done what they did or to such an extent that they did had they not been listening to his hateful tirades
free speech is an absolute right but a grown man should know better than to play with chidren geddit?
like michael jackson only saner, slyer and more power hungry, you dont see many other death metal bands waxing lyrical about how theyre the antichrist and in the same breath claiming that its just music. theyre deadly serious (NIN cradle etc)and have healthy respect for the horrors they purvey.
there is something particularily nasty and sexual about mansons desire to be the worst of the worst.he should have some respect and top himself, i would if i thought id played even the tiniest part in such an horrific event- i hope he reads this.

evil begets evil- fact.

I guess we shouldn't allow people to make movies anymore.

I think films aren't violent enough. Violence is part of our culture and has been part of other cultures too. Violence is human nature and we shouldn't restrict it.

Good points !

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pyrofan1)</div>

I think films aren&#39;t violent enough.[/b]

I know you&#39;ve got your reputation &#39;n all, but surely you like a good rom-com? Or do they need more violence too?

Violence is part of our culture and has been part of other cultures too. Violence is human nature and we shouldn&#39;t restrict it.[/b]

Presumably you mean "...we shouldn&#39;t restrict it in films."

But even then its not the violence as such is it? Tom and Jerry is mega-violent. As LEd mentioned, there&#39;s scary and there&#39;s disgusting.

Perhaps there needs to be more a more sophisticated differentiation in the ratings systems, in a similar way to how we label the ingredients in packaged food? I would have liked to have been somehow better warned about H6.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Northastings)</div>

I guess we shouldn&#39;t allow people to make movies anymore.[/b]

Haha. Yes, or why not extend that to banning everything creative? Offenders should be hung, drawn and quatered in public.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eightyape)</div>

free speech is an absolute right but a grown man should know better than to play with chidren geddit?[/b]

Basically that&#39;s it - free-speech should be sacrosanct. But then we need to somehow teach each other better that (for example) bigotry can lead to violence. Or that people are highly suggestible (look at what Derren Brown does - then imagine there are people like him in the advertising industry&#33 And where morals cannot be taught we have law and justice which has its own ?lesser evils.

Actually I&#39;m ideologically quite anarchist - or bizzarely, even, right-wing libertarian, but freedom from governance and/or the free market, (?)can&#39;t work without freedom of information and freedom from evil, as well as some kind of equality to start with. So rich folk want a pure free market so they can maximise their capital advantage, whilst poor folk want an even playing field and basic land rights etc.... - sorry, I&#39;m generalising, and waffling.

like michael jackson only saner, slyer and more power hungry,[/b]

very scary thought

By the way, I think tarrantino was kind of pushing it when he was saying &#39;yeah, cool parents would take their children to see this movie&#39;.

Anyhow: There is a difference between gore and violence, and between gore, violence and being scared. However, one can not deny that all 3 things are fun, in movies. Right?

I mean, there is a reason that you can&#39;t browse the internet without running across Some picture of a guy with his guts cut out. People seem to enjoy it. It is fairly interesting I might say.

However, perhaps they should label movies as &#39;violent&#39;, &#39;scary&#39; and &#39;gore&#39;. I mean, the people that might love &#39;The Ring&#39; don&#39;t necessary like stuff like hostel and saw. Saw isn&#39;t even scary, it is just sadism and gore.

-

Besides that, zombies rule&#33;

Originally Posted by eightyape

dont get me wrong i think a well made horror film is a good social thing, it reminds us of the boundaries of what is acceptable behaviour, but coupled with social ills and obsessive personalities the consequences can be horrific, and marylin manson appeals to the darker side of human nature and glorifies an obsession with fear, its all about tipping points and going a little too far, id stab manson up soon as look at him cos hes not selling his shit to stable people, hes just playing a market and the majority of his market are impressionable disillusioned teenagers and he plays on the adolescent feeling of being an outsider, hes no worse than ronald mcdonald - in fact very similar- marketing a very adult product to an impressionable audience who do not have solid moral grounding, and whos to say those columbine kids would have done what they did or to such an extent that they did had they not been listening to his hateful tirades
free speech is an absolute right but a grown man should know better than to play with chidren geddit?
like michael jackson only saner, slyer and more power hungry, you dont see many other death metal bands waxing lyrical about how theyre the antichrist and in the same breath claiming that its just music. theyre deadly serious (NIN cradle etc)and have healthy respect for the horrors they purvey.
there is something particularily nasty and sexual about mansons desire to be the worst of the worst.he should have some respect and top himself, i would if i thought id played even the tiniest part in such an horrific event- i hope he reads this.

evil begets evil- fact.[/b]

Marilyn Manson knows how to market, yes, but its his music and if he wants to sing about dark stuff, let him do so. I listen to Strapping Young Lad, and its a hell of a lot worse in terms of dark lyrics and music. If anything, Manson&#39;s music is fairly tame compared to Strapping Young Lad.

I think you&#39;ve got the wrong end of the stick. You&#39;re not blaming movies for violence but music. Same thing (the blame game) but in just another context. People must accept responsibility for their actions, not the people/artists who the criminal took an interest in. People will listen to Manson&#39;s music because they like it, not just for the message. And it&#39;s not only children who listen to Manson. In fact...

id stab manson up soon as look at him cos hes not selling his shit to stable people[/b]

That can be construed as a motive for murder to an innocent person (Yes... Manson is innocent, just like the rest of his listeners, regardless of what you may think ), so if anything, you are no better than all the killers and murders in the world. By saying that, you have defeated the point of your argument ("He preaches violence and hate&#33; KILL HIM&#33;&#33;"... oh the irony). Yes, children are impressionable, very impressionable, but from my experience, I think the trauma of being bullied, being made an outcast by all of one&#39;s peers, etc, can leave much worse impressions on a child&#39;s mind than music can ever do. It wasn&#39;t music/movies/games/etc that drove the school shooters of the world into doing their desperate and horrible acts, it was the kids in the school who drove them into despair, the neglect of parents, and the effect of our harsh society. I&#39;m sure if you met with Marilyn Manson (And didn&#39;t try to murder him...), you&#39;d find he is a very normal, but interesting person... who has found that being wierd sells...

Originally Posted by bluefinger

Very true, though one has to ask questions when stuff like Hostel come out. Is this want we want? Is this appropriate?[/b]

I certainly like Hostel. It is a great movie. Hot chicks + brutal violence = nice combination.

Originally Posted by King

I certainly like Hostel. It is a great movie. Hot chicks + brutal violence = nice combination.[/b]

Meh, I beg to differ. As a movie, the only thing Hostel offered was hot chicks + brutal violence.... nothing else. To me, that doesn&#39;t make it a good movie. I felt Sunshine was a far superior movie (hell, 28 Days Later as well) to Hostel... though Sunshine was more of a sci-fi horror. Other gory movies that I felt were better were Event Horizon (the airlock scene still makes me cringe) and Alien. Yes, the old classic. Hostel has nothing on those movies in my opinion. But then again, its my opinion. Gore just doesn&#39;t sell to me. *shrugs*

Y&#39;know what&#39;s stupid? The media talks about how disgusting this VA thing is, how bad his plays are, yet they never criticize the people who write the scripts and plots for these horror movies. They won&#39;t release these plays that Cho wrote, yet they&#39;ll show these absolutely disgusting movies in public. Completely idiotic, I think.

Isn&#39;t this because the VA Tech massacre was real?

To me the hippocracy is people complaining about horror movies whilst investing in arms manufacturing companies or voting for goverments who use aggression to get what they want.

"Are Films Getting Too Sick?"

yes, real snuff films are too sick. I guess a lot of people here said they enjoy sick films. But in a snuff film, porn where the woman is killed in the end, for real, is too sick in my opinion, nahmean?

I guess the romans had their real violence and rape as entertainment too. People dig watching others suffer?

I've got no problem with movies like SAW, I don't seek them out or anything but every now and then I enjoy seeing them. To be perfectly honest I have a deeply embedded sadistic streak and in the scene where he had to cut off his own foot I couldn't stop giggling while the girl next to me was trying to hold in her lunch.

In SAW he goes after bad people and after a bit of torture grants them death. Personally, I'd rather see a bad person meet a brutally horrific end then live and go on to physically and psychologically torture an innocent person.

Of course, I also say psychological torture is much worse then physical torture...so that might be the reason I think that brutal movies aren't that bad; as long as they are movies and not Real snuff. If you don't like excess gore, don't watch it. It only takes a minor bit of searching on the net to read a review and hear if it is too gory for your tastes or not.

Some people are into that, other wise there wouldn't be sites on the net that have nothing but Real pictures and movies of brutal, horrific scenes. One I vividly recall seeing with my cousin when I was only nine or ten was of a guy on a high way with a shot gun in his mouth and in the end it showed in considerable detail him blowing out his own brains. With stuff like that floating around and of course all the tragedies happening in the real world, why chose to focus on music/movies/games as the real problem?

Originally Posted by NeAvO

but when one involves a mutant ripping a baby out of a pregnant woman (Hhe2) that just draws the line for me

'

Holy fuck, that's intense. I don't watch many gory movies, but a certain scene in Pan's Labyrinth disturbed me (the whole film did, but not in a way related to gore ) where the farmer get's his face mashed, for lack of a better word, in by a wine bottle. The detail of the face distorting and deforming made me feel a bit shocked. The movie fucking rocked though

And I am perfectly fine with unrealistic violence (see Kill Bill) but movies like Hostel and Saw are nono's for me.

I don't think it was a foetus in HHE2 - just the woman's heart...
There was a baby, and they were going to eat it, but it was rescued.

So that's alright then