Al-Qaeda doesn't actually exist, it's just fear-mongering on the part of the American goverment

Al-Qaeda doesnt Exist

There's no such thing as al-Qaeda. It's a fraud perpetrated on the British and American people by the governments to scare us into submission. This is a clip from the excellent three-part BBC documentary "The Power of Nightmares"

Basically, the documentary talks about how America and other countries have been using fear to create phantom enemies and 'evils' since long before the cold war in order to gain public support to drastically change laws, go to war, strip freedoms, and now arrest people going entirely off of ASSUMPTIONS with having ABSOLUTELY NO EVIDENCE. All, to perpetuate this fear and scare the public into believing in an imaginary enemy, so they can then turn around and use that for political gain and power. While some of the threats may have been justified at first, everything is now being blown completely out of proportion, and is totally imaginary. Politicians now believe that, even though we can't see it and there's nothing pointing to it's existence, doesn't mean that it's not there or that we shouldn't be acting as if it doesn't exist. In other words, action without evidence is justified...the Precautionary Principle. Say WHA!? Sounds like some conservative religious people's circular logic for the existence of god.

The problem with this way of thinking is, once you start imagining the worst of what might happen there is no limit to what you can imagine. What if they had access? What if they could effectively deploy it? What if we weren't prepared? What it boils down to is a shift away from the scientific, WHAT IS evidence based decision making, to this speculative imaginary WHAT IF based worst case scenerio.

Here are some facts taken from that three-part documentary:

Of the 664 people arrested under the terrorism acts since Sep. 11..none of them have been convicted of belonging to al Qaeda.

Only 3 people have so far been convicted of having ANY association with any islamist groups, and none of those convictions were for being involved with a terror plot. They were for fund raising, or possessing islamist literature.

Even the 'dirty bomb' threat the media loves talking about isn't as deadly as they hype it up to be. But, good news, is bad media...and bad politics...

All I ask, is for you open your eyes and ears before you go blindly defending America's retarded decision making and foreign policies. Don't get me wrong, I don't hate America. I'm actually from Washington D.C., but I really find all this stupid blind patriotism coming from some ignorant americans quite disturbing and disgusting...Stay informed...not ignorant...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=NzlG28B-R8Y

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

http://youtube.com/watch?v=NzlG28B-R8Y

---

Jesus universal mind, that is just childish and close-minded.

You don't even see it as a possibility. You are mentally crippled on this subject. You already know your government put absolute lies in your mind, first saying "Saddam Harbours Al-Qaeda terrorists", then saying "We never said Saddam has anything to do with Al-Qaeda". If they can lie like you like that, why couldn't they lie a bit more?

Why do you think it is so twightlight-zone that the American government might have put such a giant lie out there? They have framed democratically chosen leaders in other countries before, to get someone in place they liked better. It's all in CIA reports made public. Why couldn't they have framed Saddam, just like that? Exact same thing.

You are in a state of denial. Actually, your government having some kind dirty plan behind- or conviniantly created after- everything that happened, is only the most logical thing to expect, if you see what your government has done in the past.

What sources do you feel to qualify as the truth?
You believe your eyes and ears.
But I would venture to say that none of us or very very few can know the "truth."

I can Google and find any topic I want and find a conspirocey theory against. To the contrary, I can find another hundred accounts that support it.

So are you just supporting how you feel with media that supports your feelings? Likewise is Universal, me and anyone doing the same?

America, Fuck Yeah! If you dont like it you can get the hell out.

LOL Completely kidding. But people who do act all red-neck really scare me. You never know what stupid people from the south are gonna do next.

As far as saying that Al Qaeda doesn't exist may be a bit too far. I cant get to the link from work, so I cant put my opinion on it; but it seems like its really one sided. There are people trying to attack the American way of life, whether it be Al Qaeda or not. People have been saying 9/11 was a conspiracy and propaganda created by the U.S. government. I find it highly unlikely that our own gov. was responsible for 9/11. Sure, the way they spun the attacks to lead us where we are now was propaganda. Why would our own government want us to live in fear?

Have you actually watched anything from BBC before? Anyone that has would attest to it being one of the few remaining news sources that do a fair job of trying to stay unbiased. I'm not just citing some random source, and if you had watched it you'd have clearly seen that.


At the end of the documentary they state that the idea that is going around against the west may be viewed of as a threat... but it is hardly the threat that the media and goverment claim it as. It would hardly immobilize society and our way of life like they would have us believe. That, and there is no secret organization to those feeling that way against America or the west like the media would have us believe, as well.

Watch it...then comment. I know it's hard to make some time to watch something informative between all those episodes of Twenty Four, Prison Break, and Lost.

conspiration theories always exist

follow the money!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LBT Petrie

Why would our own government want us to live in fear?

---

Because your fear, gives them power.

Think about it. The American people are scared out of their wits, thinking that a nuclear bomb could hit them at any moment because of terrorist groups obtaining WMD's, thus the American people turn to the only people who can do anything about it, their government/army. The American people freely give away their rights and freedoms in order to obtain more "needed" security, and more homeland security.

Personally, I don't think I believe this. I watched the video, but I didn't really see any solid proof. SolSkye, I don't believe Howie is saying that BBC isn't to be trusted because it's an unreliable source, he's merely saying that there really is no such thing as I guess a "whole truth". I can't really express it in words well what that means... but look at it this way. We go to the doctors when we're sick. The doctor tells us we have to take this certain pill to get better. We have no idea what that pill does, we just simply accept it, and assume that it's going to make us better. What is there to prove directly in front of our eyes that it is indeed going to make us better?

We can only ever believe what we see and hear, but that doesn't necessarily make it true either. Just because the BBC appears to be unbiased and truthful, doesn't mean they are, and it doesn't mean that they know any better than the average Joe. All I'm trying to say, is that especially nowadays, it's nearly impossible to be able to really KNOW anything for certain.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bayside

Because your fear, gives them power.

Think about it. The American people are scared out of their wits, thinking that a nuclear bomb could hit them at any moment because of terrorist groups obtaining WMD's, thus the American people turn to the only people who can do anything about it, their government/army. The American people freely give away their rights and freedoms in order to obtain more "needed" security, and more homeland security.

Personally, I don't think I believe this. I watched the video, but I didn't really see any solid proof. SolSkye, I don't believe Howie is saying that BBC isn't to be trusted because it's an unreliable source, he's merely saying that there really is no such thing as I guess a "whole truth". I can't really express it in words well what that means... but look at it this way. We go to the doctors when we're sick. The doctor tells us we have to take this certain pill to get better. We have no idea what that pill does, we just simply accept it, and assume that it's going to make us better. What is there to prove directly in front of our eyes that it is indeed going to make us better?

We can only ever believe what we see and hear, but that doesn't necessarily make it true either. Just because the BBC appears to be unbiased and truthful, doesn't mean they are, and it doesn't mean that they know any better than the average Joe. All I'm trying to say, is that especially nowadays, it's nearly impossible to be able to really KNOW anything for certain.

---

I agree on fear giving power. That's the same law religion works on to conmtrol people. "Do you fear hell? Then convert to my religion!!"



But I don't think Al Qaeda is false though


It could be different, less powerful, whatever... but it does exist.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SolSkye

Have you actually watched anything from BBC before? Anyone that has would attest to it being one of the few remaining news sources that do a fair job of trying to stay unbiased. I'm not just citing some random source, and if you had watched it you'd have clearly seen that.


At the end of the documentary they state that the idea that is going around against the west may be viewed of as a threat... but it is hardly the threat that the media and goverment claim it as. It would hardly immobilize society and our way of life like they would have us believe. That, and there is no secret organization to those feeling that way against America or the west like the media would have us believe, as well.

Watch it...then comment. I know it's hard to make some time to watch something informative between all those episodes of Twenty Four, Prison Break, and Lost.

---

I have not watched but I listen to it, most days.
I have radio headphones. :goodjob2:
I agree with you. As far as biased, they represent pretty well.
But I ask, even if THEIR nature is to give an unbiased account of an event or story, how accurate is their source?
It boils down to what governments do and do not want you to know.

Al Qaeda operatives killed 3000 people and destroyed the biggest buildings in our nation. I don't see how they are not a threat.

Just like Saddam, Al Qaeda brought this upon themselves. Do you think we were going to just let them off the hook?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LBT Petrie

America, Fuck Yeah! If you dont like it you can get the hell out.

LOL Completely kidding. But people who do act all red-neck really scare me. You never know what stupid people from the south are gonna do next.

---

I find that offensive... I live in the south, about an hour away from the beach in Alabama. Very very few people act like stupid red-necks down here. Sure, there are a few, but don't try to make the rest of us look stupid because of a few idiots.

Back on topic, I believe Al-Qaeda does exist. I just think the government is blowing it way out of proportion. They have a lot to gain from this war. I could be wrong, but I don't give a damn about America or it's stupid wars.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by blahaha

I find that offensive... I live in the south, about an hour away from the beach in Alabama. Very very few people act like stupid red-necks down here. Sure, there are a few, but don't try to make the rest of us look stupid because of a few idiots.

Back on topic, I believe Al-Qaeda does exist. I just think the government is blowing it way out of proportion. They have a lot to gain from this war. I could be wrong, but I don't give a damn about America or it's stupid wars.

---

Very true, people in the south are smart now. I live in Atlanta, which isn't really considered the "deep south", but still. At least we still have Southern hospitality.

Don't be offended, though. Let him talk like a jackass, its pretty entertaining. However, i suggest you start giving a damn about America.

I have to disagree, nothing wrong with the South but atleast 51% of the South falls into a category I call Redneck. I don't like labeling things, and I'm trying to move beyond that whole perception of the world, bt jesus some of those people are ridiculous.

As far as Al Queda not existing, as much as our government likes to lie, you need a history lesson. They would have had to have been making Al Queda up for quite a while, they weren't some boogieman that just popped up at the perfect moment. I mean, sure the Gulf of Tonka was a set up by our own government, as well as the catalyst of the Mexican American war. Sure, we killed probably one of the greatest leaders Central America has ever had and replaced him with a dictator that started publicly executing dissidents. Sure, we had the original School Of Assassins under Reagan "Change to School of Americas" where we trained assassins to start coups anywhere we wanted. Doesn't mean we did it again, now does it?

Come on people, fool you once, shame on the other guy, but Universal, you are still in support of this war which means you have been fooled 8 times. I repeat, you have swallowed 8 lies like candy. I believe shame on you just ain't cutting it at this point.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DoomedOne

I have to disagree, nothing wrong with the South but atleast 51% of the South falls into a category I call Redneck. I don't like labeling things, and I'm trying to move beyond that whole perception of the world, bt jesus some of those people are ridiculous.

As far as Al Queda not existing, as much as our government likes to lie, you need a history lesson. They would have had to have been making Al Queda up for quite a while, they weren't some boogieman that just popped up at the perfect moment. I mean, sure the Gulf of Tonka was a set up by our own government, as well as the catalyst of the Mexican American war. Sure, we killed probably one of the greatest leaders Central America has ever had and replaced him with a dictator that started publicly executing dissidents. Sure, we had the original School Of Assassins under Reagan "Change to School of Americas" where we trained assassins to start coups anywhere we wanted. Doesn't mean we did it again, now does it?

Come on people, fool you once, shame on the other guy, but Universal, you are still in support of this war which means you have been fooled 8 times. I repeat, you have swallowed 8 lies like candy. I believe shame on you just ain't cutting it at this point.

---

And 51% of Californians are snot nosed, smug, media obsessed, pot smoking, surfing, "Gnarly" saying, fart smelling, coke sniffing, liberal freaks.

When you say that 51% of southerners are rednecks, you sound a little ignorant. Take it from somebody who actually lives in the south. If you were not being as serious as I thought, then I am sorry.

Now, with respect that Saddam refused entry to Inspectors, I would like you to prove that invasion of Iraq was not justified. Btw, you don't have to support the war to agree with me on this.

what percentage of southerners are christian or vote republican? and which percentage do both? what percentage of southerners are conservative? what is the percentage that support the war or bush? btw where is the line between white trash, redneck or just a moron?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by shark!

what percentage of southerners are christian or vote republican, and which percentage do both?

---

I suppose that if, by chance, you are a Christian and a Republican, you are definately a redneck.

These misconceptions that Europe has about America and those that the north/west US have about Southerners are ridiculus. You all have been fooled by stereotypes.

Both US and europe are shit. If you want real problems, real government deceit, go to a place in latin america or in the middle east.

It's like a lady crying for not having a new dress to party, while someone starves in africa and doesn't cry.

Its kind of ironic you decided to use the twilight zone music to say its silly, because the show always dealt with human nature and often had great insight. Even if it was shown in strange ways and was meant to be entertaining, you really could learn a lot from that show.

I remeber that classic one and it really is a classic, where it was about a normal small town community. All the electricity went out in the area and their cars wouldn't work or anything. Then one guys lights come on in his house and their all "Look he has lights he caused it!" then as the show went on a few other weird things happen and they all get really scared and start blaming each other and they all think the other person are terrorists. Though this is back 20-30 years ago so they might not have actually called them "terrorists" but its basicly the same principle. Then it ends with everyone attacking each other.

I looked up the ending of it and it went like this. "The tools of conquest do not necessarily come with bombs and explosions and fallout. There are weapons that are simply thoughts, attitudes, prejudices, to be found only in the minds of men. For the record: prejudices can kill, and suspicion can destroy, and the thoughtless, frightened search for a scapegoat has a fallout all of its own, for the children and the children yet unborn. And the pity of it is... that these things cannot be confined... to The Twilight Zone."

Yes half-dreaming, but at least us hippies can talk so you can understand the words coming out of our mouth. And what is smugness compared to cheer, unapologetical arrogance that the average redneck has?

Hey but you're not insulting me because I am a hippy. I love surfing, though by heart I'm a snowboarder so I don't really appreciate that stereotype in particular. I look down on other people that don't think they way I do because I think they're being sheep. I do lot's and lot's of drugs too. Oh, but I forgot to mention what I don't do, which is eat in lies like ice-cream.
edit; And there are definitely more REDNECKS in California than hippies.

I surf and snowboard, too. In fact, surfing is one of my most favorite things to do. Have you ever been to Hawaii? Maui has awesome surfing. Too bad Honolua bay didn't have any waves while I was there, which would have been cool to see.

From what I understand, there are a lot of rednecks in California.

By the way, what is eating in lies?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Neruo

Jesus universal mind, that is just childish and close-minded.

You don't even see it as a possibility. You are mentally crippled on this subject. You already know your government put absolute lies in your mind, first saying "Saddam Harbours Al-Qaeda terrorists", then saying "We never said Saddam has anything to do with Al-Qaeda".

---

You are closing your mind to the possibility that the idea that Al Qaeda does not exist is insane. Do you know how many people would be involved in such a conspiracy? Do you know how easily such grand information would leak? I am talking about a leak worlds bigger than some former British marine with a mohawk doing some silly loonie land talk. We have thousands and thousands of people working on the Al Qaeda situation. We have captured or killed 2/3 of their leadership and used a great deal of network information to catch others. We have leaders on video after video after video talking about what they are up to. This is such an Art Bell show topic. It's fun, but if you want me to be serious, I am nowhere near agreeing with it. Try opening YOUR mind to that, if you think you can.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LBT Petrie

But people who do act all red-neck really scare me. You never know what stupid people from the south are gonna do next.

---

Washington, D.C. is not in the South. :wink: If you think you are smarter than I am because I am from the South, you are showing a major intelligence deficit.

SOLSKYE, now let's talk about your BBC video of "Mohawk boy said" and get to the bottom of it in about two seconds. First of all, the proof offered in that video is nonexistent. I could post a video of people saying, "Uh, the United States government does not exist. Nobody even mentioned the U.S. government before 2005." Big deal! Now I will point out the two easiest lies to slam lies from that video. Do you remember where the video said that we used our most powerful weapons to attack Tora Bora? Guess what. We did NOT use nuclear weapons in Tora Bora. Can you prove that we did? And now for an even bigger one... One of the videos' biggest points was that the term "Al Qaeda" didn't even exist before the 9/11 attacks. Let me snap this discussion right out of the Twilight Zone by bringing up the fact that the Clinton Administration discussed Al Qaeda in the mid-1990's and that the National Security Council had a major discussion on Al Qaeda in January of 2001, not that that was the first time the federal government expressed Al Qaeda concerns. Check out this link...

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB147/index.htm

Look at the January 25, 2001 memo.

So that's two lies I can expose right off the top of my head in regard to a video of some guy with a mohawk talking about some very crazy shit.


By the way, I would like to thank all of the non-Americans who call us stupid while turning right around and suggesting that we can pull off conspiracies with tens of thousands of people involved and still fool the world. That is very, very flattering.

Its not so much that they don't exist but the fact that their not a ligitment threat to us.

"Proof" is subjective. It can be whatever the author of the article wants it to be. The fact that no common citizen has experienced these things first hand leaves room for this BS.

Al Qaeda existed before Sept. 11. Just becuase a shred of evidence says otherwise doesnt make that false, just as shreds of evidence don't make our government involved in 9/11. I suggest that a number of people here become more educated in history.