Thread: Al-Qaeda doesn't actually exist, it's just fear-mongering on the part of the American goverment

America, Fuck Yeah! If you dont like it you can get the hell out.

LOL Completely kidding. But people who do act all red-neck really scare me. You never know what stupid people from the south are gonna do next.

As far as saying that Al Qaeda doesn't exist may be a bit too far. I cant get to the link from work, so I cant put my opinion on it; but it seems like its really one sided. There are people trying to attack the American way of life, whether it be Al Qaeda or not. People have been saying 9/11 was a conspiracy and propaganda created by the U.S. government. I find it highly unlikely that our own gov. was responsible for 9/11. Sure, the way they spun the attacks to lead us where we are now was propaganda. Why would our own government want us to live in fear?

Originally Posted by LBT Petrie

Why would our own government want us to live in fear?

Because your fear, gives them power.

Think about it. The American people are scared out of their wits, thinking that a nuclear bomb could hit them at any moment because of terrorist groups obtaining WMD's, thus the American people turn to the only people who can do anything about it, their government/army. The American people freely give away their rights and freedoms in order to obtain more "needed" security, and more homeland security.

Personally, I don't think I believe this. I watched the video, but I didn't really see any solid proof. SolSkye, I don't believe Howie is saying that BBC isn't to be trusted because it's an unreliable source, he's merely saying that there really is no such thing as I guess a "whole truth". I can't really express it in words well what that means... but look at it this way. We go to the doctors when we're sick. The doctor tells us we have to take this certain pill to get better. We have no idea what that pill does, we just simply accept it, and assume that it's going to make us better. What is there to prove directly in front of our eyes that it is indeed going to make us better?

We can only ever believe what we see and hear, but that doesn't necessarily make it true either. Just because the BBC appears to be unbiased and truthful, doesn't mean they are, and it doesn't mean that they know any better than the average Joe. All I'm trying to say, is that especially nowadays, it's nearly impossible to be able to really KNOW anything for certain.

Originally Posted by Bayside

Because your fear, gives them power.

Think about it. The American people are scared out of their wits, thinking that a nuclear bomb could hit them at any moment because of terrorist groups obtaining WMD's, thus the American people turn to the only people who can do anything about it, their government/army. The American people freely give away their rights and freedoms in order to obtain more "needed" security, and more homeland security.

Personally, I don't think I believe this. I watched the video, but I didn't really see any solid proof. SolSkye, I don't believe Howie is saying that BBC isn't to be trusted because it's an unreliable source, he's merely saying that there really is no such thing as I guess a "whole truth". I can't really express it in words well what that means... but look at it this way. We go to the doctors when we're sick. The doctor tells us we have to take this certain pill to get better. We have no idea what that pill does, we just simply accept it, and assume that it's going to make us better. What is there to prove directly in front of our eyes that it is indeed going to make us better?

We can only ever believe what we see and hear, but that doesn't necessarily make it true either. Just because the BBC appears to be unbiased and truthful, doesn't mean they are, and it doesn't mean that they know any better than the average Joe. All I'm trying to say, is that especially nowadays, it's nearly impossible to be able to really KNOW anything for certain.

I agree on fear giving power. That's the same law religion works on to conmtrol people. "Do you fear hell? Then convert to my religion!!"



But I don't think Al Qaeda is false though


It could be different, less powerful, whatever... but it does exist.

Al Qaeda operatives killed 3000 people and destroyed the biggest buildings in our nation. I don't see how they are not a threat.

Just like Saddam, Al Qaeda brought this upon themselves. Do you think we were going to just let them off the hook?

Originally Posted by LBT Petrie

America, Fuck Yeah! If you dont like it you can get the hell out.

LOL Completely kidding. But people who do act all red-neck really scare me. You never know what stupid people from the south are gonna do next.

I find that offensive... I live in the south, about an hour away from the beach in Alabama. Very very few people act like stupid red-necks down here. Sure, there are a few, but don't try to make the rest of us look stupid because of a few idiots.

Back on topic, I believe Al-Qaeda does exist. I just think the government is blowing it way out of proportion. They have a lot to gain from this war. I could be wrong, but I don't give a damn about America or it's stupid wars.

Originally Posted by blahaha

I find that offensive... I live in the south, about an hour away from the beach in Alabama. Very very few people act like stupid red-necks down here. Sure, there are a few, but don't try to make the rest of us look stupid because of a few idiots.

Back on topic, I believe Al-Qaeda does exist. I just think the government is blowing it way out of proportion. They have a lot to gain from this war. I could be wrong, but I don't give a damn about America or it's stupid wars.

Very true, people in the south are smart now. I live in Atlanta, which isn't really considered the "deep south", but still. At least we still have Southern hospitality.

Don't be offended, though. Let him talk like a jackass, its pretty entertaining. However, i suggest you start giving a damn about America.

I have to disagree, nothing wrong with the South but atleast 51% of the South falls into a category I call Redneck. I don't like labeling things, and I'm trying to move beyond that whole perception of the world, bt jesus some of those people are ridiculous.

As far as Al Queda not existing, as much as our government likes to lie, you need a history lesson. They would have had to have been making Al Queda up for quite a while, they weren't some boogieman that just popped up at the perfect moment. I mean, sure the Gulf of Tonka was a set up by our own government, as well as the catalyst of the Mexican American war. Sure, we killed probably one of the greatest leaders Central America has ever had and replaced him with a dictator that started publicly executing dissidents. Sure, we had the original School Of Assassins under Reagan "Change to School of Americas" where we trained assassins to start coups anywhere we wanted. Doesn't mean we did it again, now does it?

Come on people, fool you once, shame on the other guy, but Universal, you are still in support of this war which means you have been fooled 8 times. I repeat, you have swallowed 8 lies like candy. I believe shame on you just ain't cutting it at this point.

Originally Posted by DoomedOne

I have to disagree, nothing wrong with the South but atleast 51% of the South falls into a category I call Redneck. I don't like labeling things, and I'm trying to move beyond that whole perception of the world, bt jesus some of those people are ridiculous.

As far as Al Queda not existing, as much as our government likes to lie, you need a history lesson. They would have had to have been making Al Queda up for quite a while, they weren't some boogieman that just popped up at the perfect moment. I mean, sure the Gulf of Tonka was a set up by our own government, as well as the catalyst of the Mexican American war. Sure, we killed probably one of the greatest leaders Central America has ever had and replaced him with a dictator that started publicly executing dissidents. Sure, we had the original School Of Assassins under Reagan "Change to School of Americas" where we trained assassins to start coups anywhere we wanted. Doesn't mean we did it again, now does it?

Come on people, fool you once, shame on the other guy, but Universal, you are still in support of this war which means you have been fooled 8 times. I repeat, you have swallowed 8 lies like candy. I believe shame on you just ain't cutting it at this point.

And 51% of Californians are snot nosed, smug, media obsessed, pot smoking, surfing, "Gnarly" saying, fart smelling, coke sniffing, liberal freaks.

When you say that 51% of southerners are rednecks, you sound a little ignorant. Take it from somebody who actually lives in the south. If you were not being as serious as I thought, then I am sorry.

Now, with respect that Saddam refused entry to Inspectors, I would like you to prove that invasion of Iraq was not justified. Btw, you don't have to support the war to agree with me on this.

what percentage of southerners are christian or vote republican? and which percentage do both? what percentage of southerners are conservative? what is the percentage that support the war or bush? btw where is the line between white trash, redneck or just a moron?

Originally Posted by shark!

what percentage of southerners are christian or vote republican, and which percentage do both?

I suppose that if, by chance, you are a Christian and a Republican, you are definately a redneck.

These misconceptions that Europe has about America and those that the north/west US have about Southerners are ridiculus. You all have been fooled by stereotypes.

Its kind of ironic you decided to use the twilight zone music to say its silly, because the show always dealt with human nature and often had great insight. Even if it was shown in strange ways and was meant to be entertaining, you really could learn a lot from that show.

I remeber that classic one and it really is a classic, where it was about a normal small town community. All the electricity went out in the area and their cars wouldn't work or anything. Then one guys lights come on in his house and their all "Look he has lights he caused it!" then as the show went on a few other weird things happen and they all get really scared and start blaming each other and they all think the other person are terrorists. Though this is back 20-30 years ago so they might not have actually called them "terrorists" but its basicly the same principle. Then it ends with everyone attacking each other.

I looked up the ending of it and it went like this. "The tools of conquest do not necessarily come with bombs and explosions and fallout. There are weapons that are simply thoughts, attitudes, prejudices, to be found only in the minds of men. For the record: prejudices can kill, and suspicion can destroy, and the thoughtless, frightened search for a scapegoat has a fallout all of its own, for the children and the children yet unborn. And the pity of it is... that these things cannot be confined... to The Twilight Zone."

Yes half-dreaming, but at least us hippies can talk so you can understand the words coming out of our mouth. And what is smugness compared to cheer, unapologetical arrogance that the average redneck has?

Hey but you're not insulting me because I am a hippy. I love surfing, though by heart I'm a snowboarder so I don't really appreciate that stereotype in particular. I look down on other people that don't think they way I do because I think they're being sheep. I do lot's and lot's of drugs too. Oh, but I forgot to mention what I don't do, which is eat in lies like ice-cream.
edit; And there are definitely more REDNECKS in California than hippies.

I surf and snowboard, too. In fact, surfing is one of my most favorite things to do. Have you ever been to Hawaii? Maui has awesome surfing. Too bad Honolua bay didn't have any waves while I was there, which would have been cool to see.

From what I understand, there are a lot of rednecks in California.

By the way, what is eating in lies?

Originally Posted by Neruo

Jesus universal mind, that is just childish and close-minded.

You don't even see it as a possibility. You are mentally crippled on this subject. You already know your government put absolute lies in your mind, first saying "Saddam Harbours Al-Qaeda terrorists", then saying "We never said Saddam has anything to do with Al-Qaeda".

You are closing your mind to the possibility that the idea that Al Qaeda does not exist is insane. Do you know how many people would be involved in such a conspiracy? Do you know how easily such grand information would leak? I am talking about a leak worlds bigger than some former British marine with a mohawk doing some silly loonie land talk. We have thousands and thousands of people working on the Al Qaeda situation. We have captured or killed 2/3 of their leadership and used a great deal of network information to catch others. We have leaders on video after video after video talking about what they are up to. This is such an Art Bell show topic. It's fun, but if you want me to be serious, I am nowhere near agreeing with it. Try opening YOUR mind to that, if you think you can.

Originally Posted by LBT Petrie

But people who do act all red-neck really scare me. You never know what stupid people from the south are gonna do next.

Washington, D.C. is not in the South. If you think you are smarter than I am because I am from the South, you are showing a major intelligence deficit.

SOLSKYE, now let's talk about your BBC video of "Mohawk boy said" and get to the bottom of it in about two seconds. First of all, the proof offered in that video is nonexistent. I could post a video of people saying, "Uh, the United States government does not exist. Nobody even mentioned the U.S. government before 2005." Big deal! Now I will point out the two easiest lies to slam lies from that video. Do you remember where the video said that we used our most powerful weapons to attack Tora Bora? Guess what. We did NOT use nuclear weapons in Tora Bora. Can you prove that we did? And now for an even bigger one... One of the videos' biggest points was that the term "Al Qaeda" didn't even exist before the 9/11 attacks. Let me snap this discussion right out of the Twilight Zone by bringing up the fact that the Clinton Administration discussed Al Qaeda in the mid-1990's and that the National Security Council had a major discussion on Al Qaeda in January of 2001, not that that was the first time the federal government expressed Al Qaeda concerns. Check out this link...

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB147/index.htm

Look at the January 25, 2001 memo.

So that's two lies I can expose right off the top of my head in regard to a video of some guy with a mohawk talking about some very crazy shit.


By the way, I would like to thank all of the non-Americans who call us stupid while turning right around and suggesting that we can pull off conspiracies with tens of thousands of people involved and still fool the world. That is very, very flattering.

Its not so much that they don't exist but the fact that their not a ligitment threat to us.

"Proof" is subjective. It can be whatever the author of the article wants it to be. The fact that no common citizen has experienced these things first hand leaves room for this BS.

Al Qaeda existed before Sept. 11. Just becuase a shred of evidence says otherwise doesnt make that false, just as shreds of evidence don't make our government involved in 9/11. I suggest that a number of people here become more educated in history.

The war in Iraq was a huge mistake. ("Saddam is connected to Al-Queda! Let's blow up Iraq!" "Saddam was in fact not connected to Al-Queda, but we're going to blow up Iraq anyway!")

That having been said, I think that the amount of evidence that Al-Queda does exist outweighs the evidence that it doesn't. Terrorist attacks have increased in frequency greatly. Of course, that could be put down to the terrorist's success in attacking the Twin Towers.

Seeing both sides of the issue seriously damages my ability to argue well.

The Nazis didn't exist. The government was lying about that. Never mind the zillions of Americans and Brits who fought them. It was a big put on, just like the moon landing and the holographic image known as the Washington Monument. And even if the Nazis did exist, they would not have been a threat. We can say, "Oh, what if they kill another 6,000,000 jews or take over another few more countries here and there and eventually the world," but that's just a bunch of "what if". Don't let fear talk for you. Professional wrestling is real. The Earth is really flat (despite the brainwashing propaganda), and The Beatles never broke up. Lennon and McCartney are writing songs together as we speak. Elvis got plastic surgery and started being known as George W. Bush.

I am blown away by the absurd turn our political discussions have taken with this thread.

Originally Posted by Alric

Its not so much that they don't exist but the fact that their not a ligitment threat to us.

They are killing our soldiers in Iraq, they have attacked several of our embassies, and they killed 3,000 American civilians on 9/11. Their publicly stated goal is to kill Americans wherever they can until we are all dead. Now imagine those people with WMD's they got from some government. Please explain how that could possibly not be a threat.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

They are killing our soldiers in Iraq, they have attacked several of our embassies, and they killed 3,000 American civilians on 9/11. Their publicly stated goal is to kill Americans wherever they can until we are all dead. Now imagine those people with WMD's they got from some government. Please explain how that could possibly not be a threat.

what a debate, how can you justify something while not knowing your own government? the good thingis i dont live in USA, and none of these problems are related to me.

And yet i keep thinking on are americans blind or something? seriously everybody in east knows that bin laden never existed, nor the stupid al-qaida group.

CIA created hussain, all the terrorist group were organized just to keep americans in place like a former keeps his cows in place.

This is how the world really works no matter what country you are, you are being watched. Just like being in jail. We call it Freedom LOL!

anyway i expressed what i was laughing at hope you enjoy it

Originally Posted by born_2_kill

what a debate, how can you justify something while not knowing your own government? the good thingis i dont live in USA, and none of these problems are related to me.

And yet i keep thinking on are americans blind or something? seriously everybody in east knows that bin laden never existed, nor the stupid al-qaida group.

CIA created hussain, all the terrorist group were organized just to keep americans in place like a former keeps his cows in place.

This is how the world really works no matter what country you are, you are being watched. Just like being in jail. We call it Freedom LOL!

anyway i expressed what i was laughing at hope you enjoy it

No matter what you believe, you do not know our government better than we do. No way. Your media is to bitterly bias against us.

This post makes you sound mentally challanged. "The CIA created Hussein"? My government created fanatical Muslims to keep us in place like cows?

You don't even deserve a response. It is quite obvious you are bitter for living in America's little sister.

Remember kid, more education, less brainwashing

Originally Posted by Half/Dreaming

Your media is to bitterly bias against us.

This post makes you sound mentally challanged. "The CIA created Hussein"? My government created fanatical Muslims to keep us in place like cows?

You don't even deserve a response. It is quite obvious you are bitter for living in America's little sister.

Remember kid, more education, less brainwashing

Ok, I just want to say.... First of all, don't talk about our media, because 80% of OUR media, comes directly from yours. The majority of our television is American television, and the majority of Canadians watch American news more than they watch their own. I actually can't even recall ever hearing anything negative coming from our media about Americans.

Also, saying that he's bitter for living in "America's little sister"...? I don't know, but to me, that sounds incredibly ignorant and like you're just trying to be an ass, and implying that America is better than Canada for no good reason.

His opinions are his own, I'm pretty sure he didn't get "The CIA created 'Hussain'" from any teacher or Canadian media source....

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

They are killing our soldiers in Iraq, they have attacked several of our embassies, and they killed 3,000 American civilians on 9/11. Their publicly stated goal is to kill Americans wherever they can until we are all dead. Now imagine those people with WMD's they got from some government. Please explain how that could possibly not be a threat.

Well thats the fear talking again. What if they get WMD, what if they get a nuke, what if they take of a space satellite that is really a weapons plateform that can launch missile any where in the world. You can say "what if" all you want and keep thinking of horrible things that "could possible happen" but that doesn't make it a real threat. He made the post talking about just this, and here you are doing it again.

As for terrorists attacking us in Iraq. They are not so much terrorists but iraqis. And really what happens in iraq isn't a threat to people living in the US.

They have only done one major attack on us in their 20+ years of existence, and you yourself claimed we killed 2/3rds of them. Thats hardly what I would call a real threat.

I mean isreal has hundreds of unaccounted for nuclear weapons and we are their best friends, who knows who they could be giving them to. China has nuclear weapons and they have organ farms where they murder people and sell off their body parts, you really trust them with anything? Russia was our enemy for over 50 years, and even though we act nice to each other now, nothing has changed and we both hate each other. They have even more nukes than we do.

So before you worry about "what if" you should worry about what is. And the fact is, the people we know to have the stuff are far more dangerous than some terrorists.

See this was what I was saying my agnosticism thread
Everybody wants to know
Its such arrogance, for once admitt you dont know

I dont know - see its easy

The government tells me al-Qaeda is real, the conspiracists tell me it isnt
Both groups are chronic lyers. Trust me, none of you know wether al-Qaeda exists, however, regardless of anything Islamisist terror does exist. So call it what you will, it exists. I dont support the methods and sloppyness of the war on terror or the Iraq war but I do belive steps should be taken to prevent the greatest threat to mankind in a long time.

But on topic the OPer doesnt know and niether do you arguing against him or with him

Imran

Originally Posted by imran_p

See this was what I was saying my agnosticism thread
Everybody wants to know
Its such arrogance, for once admitt you dont know

I dont know - see its easy

The government tells me al-Qaeda is real, the conspiracists tell me it isnt
Both groups are chronic lyers. Trust me, none of you know wether al-Qaeda exists, however, regardless of anything Islamisist terror does exist. So call it what you will, it exists. I dont support the methods and sloppyness of the war on terror or the Iraq war but I do belive steps should be taken to prevent the greatest threat to mankind in a long time.

But on topic the OPer doesnt know and niether do you arguing against him or with him

Imran

How can you say you can never be sure of anything, then in the same sentence, say you know something for sure? You totally contradicted yourself.