What's the dealio with GOP candidate Ron Paul?

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Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Mainly, he is the only Republican candidate who can beat Hillary Clinton. That alone gets him the nomination, most likely. That is so important to Republicans that they are willing to overlook that fact that he is pro-choice and pro-gun-control. His handling of 9/11 has a lot to do with his popularity, and so does his great ability to communicate, debate, and sound strong. McCain is seen as having a lot of good qualities and an impressive resume too, but he comes across as kind of a wuss when he speaks, and that makes him look vulnerable in a debate with Hillary Clinton. He lacks conviction and energy. I think the Republicans are tired of having candidates that suck at communicating. Bob Dole was a total pansie of a public communicator, and Bush has trouble getting through sentences. Republicans want a great communicator with conviction on top of what they see as the other necessary qualities.

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I could be wrong that the Repubs arent going to nominate someone with no chance of winning.

But you are using circular reasoning. How can Giuliani have a chance of beating Hillary if there is another candidate who would steal more votes from her than Giulinai would?

And you just admitted that the only things that would make him more appealing are his left-leaning stances on abortion, etc- when its obvious to everyone that Giuliani is one of the most disliked Republican figures by the left. So who is he going to appeal to? Pro-abortion people who just happen to like Neo-cons? Hmmm...I wonder...what does the average Giuliani fan look like?

Moonbeam, you don't understand his policies at all.

He personally is against abortion and against a federal allowance on it, he also however isn't for a federal ban on it. He doesn't think it is the governments place (in washington) to makes decisions based on that. Also, I doubt he is for abusing animals, his voting record probably shows that it isn't the governments place to pass such laws. He is for restoring a balance in power to the way it should be, he is the only candidate running for the people of america, not special interest groups.

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Originally Posted by jaasum

Moonbeam, you don't understand his policies at all.

He personally is against abortion and against a federal allowance on it, he also however isn't for a federal ban on it. He doesn't think it is the governments place (in washington) to makes decisions based on that.

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No, I didn't really know the specifics of that, just his personal opinion on the subject.

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Originally Posted by jaasum

Also, I doubt he is for abusing animals, his voting record probably shows that it isn't the governments place to pass such laws.

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Well he may not be for it, but he voted against laws prohibiting it. If he thinks that the government doesn't exist to protect beings that can't protect themselves, I'd say I disagree with him there--that's one of the few things I think government exists for. But you are just speculating on why he voted against the laws, right?

Despite how I feel concerning the above, I'd probably still vote for him if he ran. His ideas on the war would have a lot more influence than his other ideas, I think.

He has a very large base, far larger than any of the other people running. Like memeticverb pointed out, Giuliani isn't going to get any left leaning voters to vote for him. Hes just going to polarize the election. Ron Paul on the other hand will get a lot of votes from democrates, thus stealing votes from hillary while also getting many of the third party votes and most of the republican votes.

As for abortion, his stance is very fair. He says let the states decide. Far to often the federal government tries to bully all the states around and its really not how this country was built. If some states want allow one thing, while the other states want to ban it, it is their right to do so. If you disagree you can move out of the state. Why is this country always trying to make it all or nothing? Some times people just disagree.

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Originally Posted by memeticverb

But you are using circular reasoning. How can Giuliani have a chance of beating Hillary if there is another candidate who would steal more votes from her than Giulinai would?

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And who would that be?

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Originally Posted by memeticverb

And you just admitted that the only things that would make him more appealing are his left-leaning stances on abortion, etc- when its obvious to everyone that Giuliani is one of the most disliked Republican figures by the left.

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No, that is not what I said. Read again.

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Originally Posted by Alric

He has a very large base, far larger than any of the other people running. Like memeticverb pointed out, Giuliani isn't going to get any left leaning voters to vote for him. Hes just going to polarize the election. Ron Paul on the other hand will get a lot of votes from democrates, thus stealing votes from hillary while also getting many of the third party votes and most of the republican votes.

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Ron Paul has no chance of winning the Republican nomination and no chance of beating Hillary Clinton as a Republican or an Independent. It is not going to happen. He will soon lose the Republican nomination. You can book my words on that. He has no chance of even making the top three. I don't even want to say that any more. Just watch what happens. After that, he should run as an Independent if he and his supporters think he can actually get somewhere. I don't think he will, but I would like to see him try. Do you think he will?

http://ronpaulgraphs.com/nov_5_extended_total.png

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Originally Posted by Alric

As for abortion, his stance is very fair. He says let the states decide. Far to often the federal government tries to bully all the states around and its really not how this country was built. If some states want allow one thing, while the other states want to ban it, it is their right to do so. If you disagree you can move out of the state. Why is this country always trying to make it all or nothing? Some times people just disagree.

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Well, since right now it is a federal issue, it does matter. I am for state's rights in general.

Look at the graph...it speaks for itself... he has sooooo many more supporters than any of the other candidates... I'm already amazed and its still 10AM by that graph

I must say I have been quite skeptical of Ron Paul's chances, but his demonstration of fund-raising ability has been nothing short of impressive. This definitely puts him on the map and gives him a fighting chance in the primaries. Since he seems to use his money so efficiently, his millions may give him the ability to form a solid support base.

I think this reveals a fundamental advantage of him running as a candidate for the entire country and not just one party. He pulls support and money from both sides, doubling his potential pool of donors.

I'm reminded of a marketing principle: Never appeal to the conformists or the 'average' person. Appeal to the passionate, and they will promote you expertly without asking for money.

Two and a half million dollars so far just today? Thats some large numbers, and we still have a long time untill the day is over.

Well, whether he gets nominated or not, I'm glad a libertarian is making an impact, even if he has to do it as a Republican.

Some people are predicting the demise of the Republican part, being torn apart by the religious fundamentalists and the more libertarian wing. That wouldn't be a bad thing (as long as the libertarians win and the fundamentalists go back into their caves or wherever they come from.)

I hope more people will become aware of libertarian philosophy now.

woohoo...look at that graph go...3.5million and counting...

So, who thinks Ron Paul is going to run as an Independent if/when he does not get the Republican nomination? If he runs as an Independent, what is your prediction on how he will end up doing on election night?

It's still an entire year until the elections. I, for one, don't have a clue how well anyone will do.

Look at that. He raised 4 million dollars in a single day! Thats some serious cash to be raising. I still think he has a very real chance to winning this.

As for being an Independent. He already said he won't run as one, and I know he isn't going to.

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Originally Posted by Alric

As for being an Independent. He already said he won't run as one, and I know he isn't going to.

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I don't get that. I know he doesn't have a snow ball's chance in Hell of winning the Republican nomination, but he could do a lot better as an Independent. The people who support him are not Republicans, so I don't understand why he wouldn't run as an Independent.

Isn't it obvious? Our political system is dominated by a two party system. If you are not in one of the two parties, you dont get elected. Sure some local positions are some times won by third parties, but its rare on a federal level. And its pretty much impossible for the presidental election.

As for the people who support him not being republican, thats not true. Sure he has democrates and independents voting for him but also a lot of republicans. I know a lot of republicans who are going to vote for him. Infact I am one of them.

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Originally Posted by Alric

Isn't it obvious? Our political system is dominated by a two party system. If you are not in one of the two parties, you dont get elected. Sure some local positions are some times won by third parties, but its rare on a federal level. And its pretty much impossible for the presidental election.

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Ross Perot came pretty damn close in 1992. I really believed that if he had not gone cuckoo and dropped out of the race for a while before getting back in and accusing Bush, Sr. of threatening his daughter he would have won.

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Originally Posted by Alric

As for the people who support him not being republican, thats not true. Sure he has democrates and independents voting for him but also a lot of republicans. I know a lot of republicans who are going to vote for him. Infact I am one of them.

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The scientific polls say otherwise. I know he has a lot of support on the internet, but I don't think too many of those people are Republicans. I think he is going to get slammed in the Republican primaries, but I think he would at least show up siginificantly on the radar if he ran as an Independent.

Don't get me wrong. I don't want him to win. But the perseverence mentality in me strangely has me wanting to get the message out that he does not have to give up so fast. I don't think think he could win, but I do think he could do a lot to help his political status by going a long way. I would love to see Ron Paul work a high office that does not deal with foreign policy. I think he is great on everything outside of that area. He is also a really good communicator with a strong spark of charisma. I hope he is never the president, but I also think we could really use him in other areas. He would be excellent in a cabinet position.

He is going for the win though. If he takes the republican nomination most of the republicans will vote for him. Either because they like him, because a lot of people vote their party no matter what, or because they just want someone to beat the democrates. Either way he has a large base, so he will take a decent share of the democrates vote and will probably win the election. Instead of being split down the middle where each sides gets about 50%, Ron Paul would likely get 60-70% and I believe easily beat the other person.

Of course the major problem is getting the republican nomination. He needs to get that or hes going home with nothing. I wouldn't rule him out yet though. Hes really moving up, and by the time the voting gets here, I expect him to have even more support.

Muahaha, 4 million in one day...nearly broke the record...would you look at that?:cool:

It's amazing that the money came from an independently-organized group on the internet. Meanwhile, Mitt Romney is shoveling money out of his own pocket to finance his campaign.

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Originally Posted by Universal Mind

So, who thinks Ron Paul is going to run as an Independent if/when he does not get the Republican nomination? If he runs as an Independent, what is your prediction on how he will end up doing on election night?

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He wont, he has said it a bunch.

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Originally Posted by jaasum

He wont, he has said it a bunch.

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Bad move. He could really make himself known if he did.

Hes going to be spending all this money is he raising on getting the nomination. Thats how he is going to become known. Look at all the debates he is in. If he wasn't running as a republican he wouldn't be in any of them. As people start dropping out, he is just going to get more time and become more popular. Hes already in the top three for money. So hes not going to be dropping like many of the other people who are having a hard time competiting with him.

Everyone else is on the down, Ron Paul is rising. Just look what he did yesterday!