Why are drugs illegal?

I think the US's shameless, economically driven War in Iraq and Afghanistan are much more a hard-to-remove bloodstain on their image than legalising low risk psychedelic drugs. I actually think it would give the US the image of being flexible, renewing and modernised if they were to do that. A new approach in the Harm and Criminality reduction of Drug-use.

Legalising Marijuana, DMT, LSD, Magic Mushrooms and Salvia in the US is most likely going to result in a dramatic Decrease of Amphetamine, Heroin, Crack/Cocaine and Meth-use. With so many pro's to legalise the Psychedelic substances I mentioned, I wonder why there are still so many people who DARE drink a cup of coffee and still can't believe that they're being more "irresponsible" for their health than someone who uses any of the mentioned Psychedelics. Even pure XTC, MDMA, is still far less toxic than Alcohol and Tobacco.

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Originally Posted by Howie

When questioned why drugs are illegal, why is it that the inevitable parallel is that of why other things are legal?

Does making the legality of tobacco and alcohol make it any more right for other drugs to be legal, EVEN if you deem them less harmful?

Are they not harmful?

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Yeah, I agree. Every time I see someone compare alcohol/tobaco to drugs, I see it more as an argument to prohibiting the former rather than legalizing the latter.

well can you stop to think what would happen if Alcohol were to become Illegal? We'd get Bootleggers-situations like in the 30's when Al Capone and his massive alcohol brewing Mafioso friends were ultra powerfull and violence related to illegal alcohol brewing was skyhigh.

It is actually the same crime that thrives today only now around illegal drugs.
As we have seen in the alcohol prohibition in the 30's Making a Drug illegal will only cause more criminal, social and public health problems and make the Government completely lose grip on it's consumtion, brewing/growing/fabrication and distrubution.

A good example of why Legalizing acceptable, low-risk drugs is a good idea is my Country; The Netherlands.

Marijuana was not legalised but there came a permittance policy allowing vendors, known as coffeeshops, to sell Marijuana and Hashish throughout cities in The Netherlands. The result was that Marijuana dealers and the related criminality surrounding it vanished like snow before the sun.


Marijuana is so harmless. Why not just legalise it? Or do you suggest we make Alcohol, Tobacco, Coffee and Aspirin illegal too? That would make this world just a bit MORE fucked up and there's gunna be less and less room left for personal freedom.

Salvia's already legal.

For those who don't know, Salvia is an EXTREMELY powerful psychadelic and hallucinogen. It's smokeable. The reason that it's legal is because there's no threat whatsoever for big-time money corporations in the production of salvia. Also, no one has ever found anything wrong with Salvia; it can't cause death, there is no overdose, and it lasts about ten minutes max. I've smoked a Salvia 20x extract before, and i will NEVER smoke it again. OH MY GOD that was the FREAKIEST experience EVER.

Actually, hell yeah i'd do it again. Lol. It was fun, i just wasn't prepared to see my friend morph into a cigarette-smoking penguin while my body was being ripped out of myself. It's nothing compared to DMT, but it was still crazy.

One of my friends smoked salvia and started running around on all fours, howling at the moon. :-P

Marijuana's so much less intense than Salvia, the reason it's illegal is as i've said before -- greed. If you don't know, read my previous post on why it's illegal.

And SKA is right. Even SUGAR is an addictive drug, way more addictive than any natural illegal drug (marijuana, psilocybin mushrooms, etc).

Drugs that are NOT addictive (natural and chemical): Marijuana, Psyilocybin, LSD, MDMA, MDA, DMT, Mescaline, GHB, Ketamine

Drugs that ARE addictive: Cocaine, Freebase Cocaine (Crack), Opiates (Heroin, Morphine, all the drugs found in pain-killer pills), Amphetamines, PCP, Tobacco, Alcohol, even Caffeine and Sugar

Any addiction by the group that is non-addictive would be psychological.

Another addictive class of Drugs: Opiates. The Medication that our psychiatrists use to dope up the mentally disturbed.

Salvia is not already legal in the US. it STILL is legal. They wanna ban it too. In some states it already IS banned.

I would like to see a study showing amount of drugs used X productiveness. Because the vast majority of drug users I know are not the most ambitious people. So in that sense, drugs seem to work against the advancement of knowledge. Thats why I think they should have no place in my or anybody else's life. But thats not for me to decide, and I am just as guilty because I drink like a madman.

I have a fair proposal. Outlaw all of them. That way, you'll still be able to do them, but they will all be considered equal.

So now that we have just given the indisputable facts showing how harmless and nonaddictive Marijuana and the group of Natural hallucinogens mentioned in this topic, you just go find anothe reason to say that these substances should just be banned by saying they impair ambition and productivity.

I smoke quite alot of Hash frequently. Maybe about 2 grams with which I can last 3 sometimes 4 days, followed up by a week or 2 non smoking and repeat again. I am a very productive person. Draw and paint alot. Make alot of music. Atop of that I am a chronic Insomniac so I'm pretty much always sleep deprived. And still I am bvery productive. Doing good at school too. So that would boldly contradict your statement about that the use of drugs would make one a ambitionless slacker.

Outlaw liqour? Are you an Anarchist? :P It will result in total nationwide chaos.


Legalise Marijuana, Mushrooms, Mescaline, DMT and LSD.
If coffee is legal, which it should be, then there is NO reason for these substances to be illegal. Stop having these pre-fabricated ideas about drugs of which you REALLy don't know jack shit about. You might have heard some gossips here and some full-of-lies-government anti drug propaganda, but admit: You really have no exact idea of what LSD, for instance, does to you.

If you would know and ACCEPT the undisputable truths about these substances you certainly would realise that these substances shouldn't have to be illegal at all. The thing is you DON't know and/or Realise the harmlessness of these substances just because you have allways been told they were bad. But never actually wondered wether that is really true.

How can you judge that which do not really know?
Bring me Arguments of why LSD, Mushrooms, Marijuana, DMT and Mescaline Should Remain illegal. And underbuild your arguments with FACTS not opinions.

Hey now, take no offense to what I said. I was just referring to the people I know.

My point of outlawing everything was not a true belief of mine. Not at all. I just feel that since the others will never be legalized (especially where I live), that they should all be classified as the same, and some not given special treatment because of the status they hold. It is not fair that Weed is illegal while alcohol IS legal, and its use is promoted on TV.

I do, still, hold my belief that the legalization of all drugs would be disasterous.

Also, keep in mind that I am an ex-drug user. Nobody hates anti drug commercials more than I, and I don't let them influence me. Hell, we don't even have anti-LSD commercials here in the states. I won't contest that I don't know much about LSD. I don't need to, because it is not a destructive drug.

Finally, I am not concerned at all about the health issues involved in taking drugs. It Frankly I couldn't care less. I am more worried about the way drug addicts act.

I'm a sophmore in college with a 3.4 GPA. I smoke weed about once a week. Sometimes more. It doesn't ruin my productivity at all -- in fact, i usually use it as a reward for the good i've done that week.

I know people who have much higher GPAs then me and they smoke every day, 3 times a day. I also know a guy with a 3.93 GPA that drinks every night.

It only impairs productivity if you let it. I know another person who smokes with those people 3 times a day and his GPA is about a 2.5. Why? Because he lets it get like that. He screws off his work to go smoke. The others do their work so they have free time to smoke.

The effects of drugs are really misconstrued. I've done essays high, i've taken tests high. I haven't gotten below a 3.0 on anything i've done high. I don't know if it would have been better if i'd not have been high, but to me it didn't make a difference -- i still knew my shit.

The best is when i have a philosophy essay due. I get blown out of my mind, type some random stuff, and get a 4.0. :)

I won't say marijuana is harmless. I am very allergic to it after a few days on it, and it definitely makes me (personally) lazier and more foggy headed. However, that's about the full extent of what is wrong with it in my case.

Alcohol, on the other hand, is the drug that has had me waking up in the emergency room with no memory of how I got there. Alcohol has made me on countless occasions wake up and ask people what I did after 8:00 the night before, and the stories have on too many occasions been stuff like, "Well, you yelled a bunch of trash talk at some carloads of rednecks that chased us for an hour," and, "You knocked down the lifeguard stand and told the locals to go screw themselves," and, "You walked around the party with your eyes barely open, wearing nothing but a shirt." Marijuana NEVER altered me in ways like that. It's not physically possible.

The reason I bring up alcohol in conversations about legalizing other drugs is that most people believe alcohol should be legal. If they understand that, then most of my work is done. I can just explain that marijuana should be legal just like the much more dangerous drug alcohol. Also, the fact that the government has declared "war" on marijuana while alcohol (and tobacco) remains legal shows that something very corrupt and twisted is going on behind the scenes.

There is always the theory of, letting people decide for themself. If they want to risk it they can, if they don't they can avoid it. We don't really need the federal government to come in and tell us what is stupid.

Just because something might be harmful to you, doesn't mean anyone has the right to tell you not to do it.

because drugs are bad, MKAY?!

:D

shit i dunno.

-patience

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Originally Posted by PatienceMarie

because drugs are bad, MKAY?!

:D

shit i dunno.

-patience

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lol that's the propaganda the governemnt spread to try to get you. The government bans drugs more on the criteria of "oh, people use it recreationally, let's ban it" than on the scientifical research about the drug. The states that banned salvia did it with no scientifical research, really on an impulse.

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Originally Posted by Half/Dreaming

Hey now, take no offense to what I said. I was just referring to the people I know.

My point of outlawing everything was not a true belief of mine. Not at all. I just feel that since the others will never be legalized (especially where I live), that they should all be classified as the same, and some not given special treatment because of the status they hold. It is not fair that Weed is illegal while alcohol IS legal, and its use is promoted on TV.

I do, still, hold my belief that the legalization of all drugs would be disasterous.

Also, keep in mind that I am an ex-drug user. Nobody hates anti drug commercials more than I, and I don't let them influence me. Hell, we don't even have anti-LSD commercials here in the states. I won't contest that I don't know much about LSD. I don't need to, because it is not a destructive drug.

Finally, I am not concerned at all about the health issues involved in taking drugs. It Frankly I couldn't care less. I am more worried about the way drug addicts act.

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Drug addicts are people that use Alcohol, Cocaine, Heroin, PCP, Crack/Cocaine and Meth or some or all of those combined in excess for an extended period of time. These people destroy themselves and become a menace to society as they're going to steal and rob to get money for their hard needed fix of any of these drugs.

If LSD, DMT, Magic Mushrooms, Marijuana and Mescaline were legalised and proper drug-education (not propaganda) was given to the people we would actually see a dramatic DECREASE of Drug addicts; People wouldn't as easily try something as devastating as Crack or Meth when something so Magical, pleasant and harmless such as LSD or DMT would be legally and easily available.

agreed? :)

PS: Here's how Psychedelics can be greatly beneficial for personal growth and insights into life:
Appart from all the insights I had on Magic Mushrooms and on my 3 times doing Yopo, here's how LSD helped a friend of mine face his own weakness and better his life;
I decided on 1 night to do LSD with 2 friends of mine in the cosy comfort of my lowly illuminated room. One of my Friends used to snort Speed(Amphetamines) quite often. I have allways thought this was a very bad habbit and told him so many times without raising my voice or degenerating him. Just lettin g him know. That night, about 6 hours into the LSD trip, My friend decided to snort a line of Speed. Something I found pittyfull and disagreeable. But because I am a tolerant person I let him do it.

He snorted it and said it burnt like hell. I said off course it burns your nose, you've seen what it does to a thick glass table surface( he told me someone left some speed on a glass table and after about 10 minutes it had Meltedm into the glass!). Right after that he emptied his bag of Speed out of my Window.

He NEVER used speed again from that night on. :)

Hell I was just kidding.

I agree with natural drugs :).

And I don't really agree with chemical drugs, but they are fun an I do them anyways.

Shit I don't care.... it's none of my business what other people do. My life is mine and theirs is theirs. Tt's how it should be :D

Unless they are really bad off and I love them.... recreational is one thing... addiction is another.

-patience

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Originally Posted by SKA

Drug addicts are people that use Alcohol, Cocaine, Heroin, PCP, Crack/Cocaine and Meth or some or all of those combined in excess for an extended period of time. These people destroy themselves and become a menace to society as they're going to steal and rob to get money for their hard needed fix of any of these drugs.

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If you would like to compare, let's compare. You compare your list with that of hard core drugs and then claim how harmless the others are.
You tell us things as evident as what addiction is, how it becomes, but must be inept yourself to recognize the simple truth. The truth is, however slowly any substance can creep up on an individual. Many may find themselves being that menace to society.
How are you confident to decide what a persons "hard needed fix.", is? While mine may be one thing, yours may be another. Go on to tell us that cocaine is so very hardcore and addictive, as it is. But all the while you advocate the legality of a mind altering substance. That is the fact. It alters a mind, which in turn comes the obvious to some, the blurred line of decision making?

I do have a perspective of seeing and using your "list". Which prior to me saying so, you must have thought I was straight and narrow.... minded, anti drug poser. I too have altered myself many times in many shapes and forms. I have extracted out of them some experiences that I could not have otherwise. However, when I am out of this fog, I can clearly see a difference between not only me and the impaired, but me and myself, impaired.
I have and still do see the abuse of marijuana in five people on a regular basis. This may seem a shallow number. It may be. But I have had the vantage point of growing up beside all of them. Not one of their quarrels against the ban on marijuana wavers. In that they are consistent.
They not do not steal or rob in the sense that you are speaking of. But they are a menace to society. Their decision making is opaque. It is the same as it was when they began to use marijuana. It is my freind from twelve years ago. This renders them a child in an adult, decision making world. Their behavior is as unwavering as their argument. Flawed.
Although they do claim to know all the answers to the universe.

So docile, so nice. So useless. Their priorities guided by a substance and not themselves, there fore leaving them misguided, affluent only by their own standards.
Leaving the rest of us, dealing with ourselves, good or bad. But still, there to deal with harsh, sobering decisions for a lax high society.

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Originally Posted by SKA

If LSD, DMT, Magic Mushrooms, Marijuana and Mescaline were legalised and proper drug-education (not propaganda) was given to the people we would actually see a dramatic DECREASE of Drug addicts; People wouldn't as easily try something as devastating as Crack or Meth when something so Magical, pleasant and harmless such as LSD or DMT would be legally and easily available.

agreed?

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An example of one type of Decision making ▲

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Here's a Question: If I were to give you a Teabag of Plant Material which will make you feel <-insert desired feeling/mindstate here-> and told you it's less toxic than coffee and non-addictive; Would you strain a Tea out of it and try it?

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Ecstasy!??
Yes. Would I make it legal? No!

I honestly wouldn't like bumping into someone tripping on acid in the street.

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Originally Posted by Howie

I do have a perspective of seeing and using your "list". Which prior to me saying so, you must have thought I was straight and narrow.... minded, anti drug poser. I too have altered myself many times in many shapes and forms. I have extracted out of them some experiences that I could not have otherwise. However, when I am out of this fog, I can clearly see a difference between not only me and the impaired, but me and myself, impaired.

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It is true that some people wrap their lives up in marijuana and become bums who make bad decisions about their lives. I have seen several cases of it with my own eyes. However, I am not so sure they would not be bums if they were sober 100&#37; of the time. Also, whose decision is it whether they live as bums? Is it their decision, or is it ours? I think it is theirs.

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Originally Posted by Spartiate

I honestly wouldn't like bumping into someone tripping on acid in the street.

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Don't worry. People on acid rarely want to go to the street. When they do go, they are far less likely to be violent than sober people. Conflict SUCKS when you are on acid.

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Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Don't worry. People on acid rarely want to go to the street. When they do go, they are far less likely to be violent than sober people. Conflict SUCKS when you are on acid.

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Well I wouldn't like to be answered at the door of somebody tripping on psychedelics at home either, I'm just saying that those drugs make you temporarily untouchable for the duration of the trip.

Many of you guys say that many of these soft-core drugs have no physical addiction, thats fine and perhaps true, but this focus on the physical is too narrow a view to justify the legalisation of these drugs. Psychological addiction is an issue too and a problematic one.
Anyone can become addicted to anything that is associated with a high, brings on a certain state of mind and/or involves enjoyment; people can become addicted to pornography, computer games, religion, gambling. It need not be a chemical substance, but may well be. Chemical substances are the most susceptible to this type of addiction because of a fixed high.
When I use the word addiction I don't mean a strong liking of something, but a love of something that causes a person to forsake many basic aspects of their lives: hygiene, family, relationships employment e.t.c. And this may well occur with a substantial percentage of drug users, after pro-longed drug use. People will essentially depend on drugs for happiness, instead of the highs of ordinary life: employment, relationships and family. The would withdraw from reality and fail to function adequately.
What would happen if we legalised these softcore drugs, then this problem would probably increase 100 fold: any large country would potentially have millions with this problem: people would forsake basic life and especially employment, affecting the welfare of the country.
This is just my hypothesis, just a theory, but the important issue for debate is the psychological effect of drugs, not the psychosomatic or physical.

On the other hand, the use of softcore, hallucinogenic drugs has led to great works of literature: allegedly, JRR Tolkien use such subtances, helping him to create his works, Alice in Wonderland was allegedly written under the influence (talking Rabbits, come on!) and even William Blake; not to mention numerous musicians.

The key is finding the balance!

psychology student, a lot of the drugs we are talking about do not make people "high", and they do not work a second day in a row. Most people cannot have two mushroom trips in the same week, for example. It takes a while for the trip potential to build back up. The same is true of DMT. Salvia divinorum does not create a high, and the trip only lasts about ten minutes when smoked. My friends and I have had some good laughs over the idea of people becoming addicted to salvia, craving another trip every ten minutes and robbing stores to get the money for it. Most psychedelics are not even in the same ballpark with the "high" drugs.

Also, you made an analogy with video games, religion, pornography, and gambling. Do you think those things should be illegal?

EDIT: This is my 4,000th post. :D

Frued was a kite.

High as.

EDIT: This is my 1,000th post. :D

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Originally Posted by ClouD

Frued was a kite.

High as.

EDIT: This is my 1,000th post. :D

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:shock:

I have never taken a recreational drug in my life, apart from caffeine, and even I can see that the prohibition of alcohol was a disaster in the 1920s, and the prohibition of drugs is a disaster now. Legalizing drugs like marijuana, LSD, mushrooms, etc. would result in a dramatic decline in crime and would free our severely overcrowded prison system of victimless, nonviolent inmates.

Exactly. No wonder they won't let us be our own police of ourself. It was a trick!