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I am warning you that the end of this video is very disturbing and chilling. This is a call from a man trapped in the south tower during the 9/11 attacks.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYZqQWfGIJg
Also, a video to put this into perspective (2nd Tower Hit)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMseIGe-YvE
This was a day out of hell. Imagine actually being there and hearing a deafening scream of an engine before an earth-shaking explosion and fireball. And the tower collpase... wow.
Death isn't something to fear, it's just a cycle.
Naturally those that haven't introspectively looked within to realize that, would have a natural aversion to death.
On the other hand, think Phoenix, Ouroboros, or any of the other mythological characters that show us the cyclical nature of time and life...
If this thread does nothing but attempt to foment fears of death then I say dump a grand canyon's worth of shit directly on top of it...
Death is nothing to EVER EVER EVER be afraid of... it just means rebirth...
http://www.lyfe.freeserve.co.uk/art/photobrowne.jpg
http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/1/...48/Mundane.png
Translation: Clear your mind of all mundane thoughts, and you will find even fire cool.
This is a very famous old quote from a buddhist monk whose temple was being burned to the ground by samurai, and right after saying this he burned to death.
He understood death more in having died that his life resonates forward to the present. Give that a thought over before any of you post a reply...
Fear begets fear and hate begets hate...
Death isn't something to fear...EVER...
I enjoyed the fact you quoted mythological characters to prove reincarnation. Your other evidence was something a monk said when under threat of death.
All you've done is prove that humanity wants life after death. That humanity created myths to 'prove' rebirth, that a monk who was about to die said it, all just confirms that humanity has an innate fear of death, and that they perpetuate either reincarnation in your examples or an afterlife in Judeo-Christian religions.
Based entirely on empirical evidence, I would suggest that death is the end. That there can be no concious cognative thought after the brain ceases to function (which biology proves it does after death) and that therefore we simply cease to be anything more than a lifeless body.
There may be reincarnation, but I can do nothing more than assert the facts of what I know. The empirical evidence is that we cease to be. Reincarnation, afterlife, both are utter conjecture and heavily influenced by an innate fear of death, the unknown.
Whether I'm afraid of death is irrelevant, but you're promoting an assumption as fact.
fucking hell, i was ok until the end when he says "oh God, oh!" and damn tower collapses, shit that brought a tear to my eye, poor guy...:(
I swear some people at my school NEED to watch this in an assembly or something. Some kids at my school either think it was even a big deal or some of the Muslim kids have said that America deserved it. They should show that video and ask why anyone thinks that man and his co-workers, and the thousands of others, deserved to die and leave their families without a husband/father. How can killing thousands of INNOCENT CIVILIANS like them by justified by anyone.( then again I'd show that same video to American officials and ask them why that is wrong that mass bombings of Iraqi civilian villages( death toll well over 100,000) can be justified.....
Quite the contrary... you claim the lack of scientific empirical evidence of life after death as the proof your viewpoint is right. There's alot of truth in the mythos that you arbitrarily write off. Needless to say, I'm closer to the monk's viewpoint at this point in life so I know that death is cycle as much as you know you'll exhale your next breath...Quote:
Originally Posted by Siиdяed
Call my bluff with a colt 45 to the temple and I'll prove you wrong...
Been there... done that...
Ah. You have faith that there is reincarnation and nothing will change your stand-point on that. I however am taking the more logical thought-process of believing what facts I have instead of making wild assumptions. I think death to be the end until proven wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by SolSkye
Are you suggesting that to prove your utter belief in life after death I should shoot you in the head?
That would taking advantage of someone's very human need for something beyond death. There's no reason I would do that.
It's 'write off', by the by.
What I meant with the colt 45 example was, that even if I knew in 1 minute you'd shoot me in the head I'd have nothing to fear or worry about. I'd actually look forward to it in the sense you look forward to going to place you've never been before. Death doesn't mean the end. That's an absurdist assumption. You are here now and time is a human construct... that means you are here eternally... linear causality is a manmade construct to make sense of an otherwise paradoxical cyclical nature.
My advice to you is delve a little deeper into yourself... once you do, there is no question without answer...
Good day :)
I agree that there is the possibility of life after death. But so far all you have are assumptions. Science dictates that death is the end. Until you or anyone else can come up with any empirical proof beyond folklore and 'delving a little deeper into yourself' (the mystical equivalent to 'look over there!') then that is the view we should maintain.
The body is the temple from which all perceptions are gained and experienced. I cannot empirically pass on anything to you which you yourself don't decide to strive for...
empiricism cannot ever explain the anomaly of consciousness which shows the smoking gun of the assumptions that go into science. They use consciousness to make theories but would prefer consciousness didn't exist because they can't explain it.
The ghost in the machine is eternal. Mystics are more adept in such things than scientists. I don't go around telling a scientist where his formula is off, where does he get off telling a mystic where his observations of consciousness are wrong?
Right-alligned thinkers prefer to study the unexplainable anomaly of consciousness while Left-alligned thinkers prefer the cold dry results of empiricism, even though they used consciousness to draw their conclusions...
Catch 22's across the board...
Ah. One massive case of 'personal experience' in other words.
Fantastic.
ah but SolSkye,science may not be able to explain exactly how consciousness came about, but we do know you require a functioning brain to be conscious. Take out a mans frontal lobe and he will be without emotion of any kind, you have damaged his consciousness their. The brain is necessary for consciousness, when you die it rots away. I know you'd love to believe your life carries on forever, is those who are religious do, but there isn't much to support it. Also even if you are reincarnated, i assume you agree you would not keep your memories or who you are, so you would not know if you had been reincarnated. YOUR particular consciousness would be gone either way, i don't remember any former life's, do you?
Please view my vid I just posted on Perspective's of Perception...
Perhaps's you have something to add?
Perhaps include a transcript? I would find it far easier to simply read your thoughts that listen to you talking about them.
In that case do a search on any of the multitude of threads I've written on this very topic... Perception Vs. Realty...
Alright, I have no idea why you said that death isn't something to be afraid of, as it was relevant to the point I was making. It wasn't so much death as a 110 story building collapsing on a traumatized office worker after a jet slammed into the side of the building as a result of an unknown religious holy war. Really, I think you may have had that post saved to a word document before you decided you needed somewhere to copy+paste it.
Sure, it's all fine an dandy not to fear death, but what if you looked out the side of your office window leagues above the ground at dizzying heights, and suddenly see an airliner approaching the building with a deafening scream as it smashes 10 stories below you, and you fall to your floor as the windows blow out and you feel the entire building sway and then explode in a cataclysmic fireball, and then spend the last hours of your life on the phone with an officer who can't do anything for you, sitting on the windowsill outside your office and seeing people jumping to their deaths, and then seeing another jet slam into the adjacent tower and feel the heat from the explosion as glass and twisted metal explode outwards, and after trying to hope you might be saved, have the entire building above you start rumbling and collapse floor after floor after floor after floor full of people...
And then you die.
I think you really need to sort out your references too, since I think that besides your argument being totally irrelevant as well as pointless, is innacurate.
Really, you should be telling this to him, well, he being about to die and all, and you typing this on a computer in middle-class America.
I just can't imagine that you would be thinking this if you ever found yourself on the 100th floor of a building in a raging inferno, and your only choice was to jump out of a window. :?Quote:
Originally Posted by SolSkye
He would take a "colt 45 to the temple" happily enough. Though obviously it's easy enough for him to type that as a middle-class American sat at home on a computer.
I'm not overly concerned with how he would feel in such a situation. It's his belief that science can be surpassed by 'delving deep inside youself' that I reacted to.
I don't find anything disturbing about that video really. He died relatively quickly and painlessly.
He didn't jump out of a window. :PQuote:
Originally Posted by kichu
This was horrible. I listened to it three times untill I got it. Now, I wonder what happened. Was that the plane that killed him, or the building collapsing? And what did the operator say after that call?
Yes, cuddly they shoud show that at an assembly. And who are the muslim kids to say that "America deserved it."? ARE YOU KIDDING ME? That guy deserved that? Go watch that video, and then if you still think that, look at what America is doing to shape itself out. And then if you STILL, for only god knows why, THEN you can say that, but expect everyone to hate you. You live in the country. Go back to Iraq or wherever they are from and look at how bad they treat their people, and tell me that America deserved it.
Thats awesome, but of course we want to prevent killing.Quote:
Originally Posted by SolSkye
I heard it like 3 years ago. It was pretty sad.
America deserved it as a people or as a government, AmazeO?
It was a tragic event that sparked hysteria throughout the US and fuelled the idea of a 'war on terror'.
Out of interest, what would you say America is doing to 'shape itself out'?
^^
O o i know!
Flattening Iraq so that there can be no further attacks from them.....:?
Though i think the large bombings stopped now, that was a few years back, now a days we are building them schools and such, getting the local population to trust you and value your help minimizes the chance that civilians in Iraq will get so angry at their friends/families dieing and join extremist organizations.
And Sindred, the first result on the search "what is america doing to get back in shape": http://www.shapeup.org/shape/steps.php
Um you have the story completely wrong. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Th%C3%A...4%90%E1%BB%A9cQuote:
Originally Posted by SolSkye
I don't really think so. Yeah, he did die, when he was crushed by 10000 tons of twisted steel, but read my post above to try and put yourself in his ordeal. I think one of the scariest things that could happen to me in a skyscraper is a plane crashing into the floors below me. I find it kind of sad that you don't feel bad for him when his last words were screaming OH GOD... OH-(line cuts dead)Quote:
Originally Posted by Pensive Patrick
The building collapsed and killed him. At the beginning of the video there is a triangle indicating his position. I don't think he was so much crushed as fell with the top part of the building until it started to pancake, and then he died.Quote:
Originally Posted by xXSomeGuyXx
I agree this should be shown at an assembly, or played over a school PA if they do an announcement for a moment of silence. And to the conspiracy theorists, I really, really think you should leave it be. Bush stretched it way too far and tripped over himself into a pile of manure in trying to justify this issue, but seriously, there were no bombs in the building, and there were two planes. Radical idea I know, but there is some video and eyewitness evidence to support it.
Really, really scary, especially for the people on the plane, hearing the engines whining louder and louder, all the pressure in the cabin being jarred, objects floating in the air, your stomach in your throat, skyscrapers flying past your window, WTC coming up fast, knowing that this is it and your life is over (No comments on reincarnation please) Making the last call to your loved ones...
I find it ridiculous that there is such a title as "conspiracy theorist" like they were all true, or someone was constantly trying to find a conspiracy.