Satanist Panic!
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Satanist Panic!
Bullcrap.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scatterbrain
You're a joke.
Don't shoot the messenger. I just posted it.Quote:
Originally Posted by drewmandan
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/m...ix/drewman.jpg
That video with santa on a cross made me laugh.
But do you really think people would want a cashless society? Thats far too radical a change. People are not ready to live like that. How would you go about implementing a cashless society?
I think there are much easier solutions to the problems we face now. Before we go about getting rid of money, how about we get rid of the CIA? OR drug prohibition? Or maybe we could just fix the education system? DO you really expect a society full of people who feel that marijuana should be illegal to accept the idea of a cashless society? It'd go right over most peoples heads.
People are not ready? Why can a bunch of caveman and also other animals survive without federal reserve notes but you are not ready for it? How indoctrinated is it to think life is not possible without federal reserve notes to glue us together...Quote:
Originally Posted by stonedape
This is a seriously brain melted mentality to assume a civilization needs federal reserve notes or 'purchasing power' in an economy involving something which is called 'money' which is a 'currency' that 'buys' things. It's pretty much a religious cult. Sometimes known as consumerism. I'm shocked how such an error cannot be recognized but I guess it explains the condition of society. Mind control is very dangerous with willing ignorant people in abundance.
This statement is truly stunning. Do you not realize all of these things run and survive because of a money system which relies of scarcity? Ever herd the saying money is the root of all evil? Ever wonder why that would be? A resource based economy does get rid of these things, and more. together with eliminating the root of corruption and people have much different incentive which does not involve handling some useless debt ridden paper notes in their wallet.Quote:
Originally Posted by stonedape
When you say cashless society, that doesn't mean a good society. The NWO wants a cashless society so you can be chipped and controlled more easy. Yet that is the insecure version of control. Either way without money has always being possible obviously controlled or not.
I'm not talking 'cashless' as cashless can mean just about anything. A credit card is cashless.
If you bothered to watch the videos resourced based means that there is enough resources that purchasing power is eliminated because things in abundance cannot be purchased any more than you can sell sand and sea shells from the beach! Go down to the beach and see if anyone will buy your sea shells. Try and sell ice to an Eskimo. I don't think you will have the purchasing power. If food runs out or something goes wrong I also hope you enjoy federal reserve notes as your main diet.
In reality this is the real use of money as a resource.
http://www.presidentialryders.com/Mo...et%20paper.jpg
That is it's true place in the scheme of things....
When you realize that, you will actually start wiping your ass with it, then you won't even need the queen on it. She will go down the toilet where she belongs.
We have the technology know how and means to create an entire resourced based civilization, and we don't need to "overthrow" or get people 'ready' for anything. All we do is create an alternative while the old system collapses on it's own.
And it will collapse. The economy is fake anyway.
Because there are more than 6 billion of us.Quote:
Originally Posted by Minervas Phoenix
Wrong and dancing queen song.....Quote:
Originally Posted by Universal Mind
I don't think that is a response.
This is my song to you now.
Ok Scrooge. 6 billion = need for money. I believe you uncle Mcduck. Save those pennies.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scatterbrain
ahh never mind.
Delete your post, no use keeping it there. I deleted my response when you changed your mind.Quote:
Originally Posted by supreme
Wow! You're fast! :lol:
Well then give me some of your resources. Some links I can read.
I will gladly read or study them. I'm too lazy to search for them,
and right now I have to go shopping. Also, I have no idea where
to look for it. You must know where some material can be found
on the subject. I just don't understand how we can change
the way things are?
I would have but I don't have a delete option? Do you?Quote:
Originally Posted by Minervas Phoenix
I took it out because I thought it probably sounded stupid.
Minerva I'm looking for that video you posted once of the danish(?) techno, the only image in the video was of a bulldog looking straight at the screen. I can't remember the genre of techno or the name of the song, but it was very repetitive and driving, maybe under hardcore. Do you know what I'm talking about?
Bless you. I hope you have a great shopping trip. Pm me or chat any time if you want to know more. I can give you resources as we go. Click edit and delete post to delete.Quote:
I'm too lazy to search for them,
and right now I have to go shopping.
Grod I certainly know what your talking about. I will give you my psychological occult weapons openly.
here it is....
No, I don't need to wake up even more. No more coffee. Please.
Thank you. That is exactly the video I mean.
99% of the world has 110% of the world debt? Oh ok.
Xei to spell it out for you. All money in circulation is debt and 10% over what's in existence as money is still owed in debt from the loans interest. 1% control the circulation of the money and so don't owe anything as that 1% represents the owner of the loans.
Sarcasm is best for you whenever any truth comes up. Pretend it's smart by following outdated incorrect science. It's ok most won't understand who finances what science you want to believe in. Some do, and there may be more of them. Put that plausible denile to use, you will need a lot of that soon.
Free energy is the truth is it?
Money isn't debt. Otherwise people would not want money. When people run out of money and borrow some, that is called debt. I think you are confused.
Money never grew on trees. It had to start with a loan.Quote:
When people run out of money and borrow some, that is called debt. I think you are confused.
This is exactly why people are not ready for this. They have been convinced that if they give up the magic green coupons they will have no way to get food. People are very attached to money. How do you expect to change this so quickly? I think that a resource based economy might be a possibility if the entire mind set of society was changed, I just think that would be really fucking hard to accomplish in less then 1000 years unless we do some simpler things first.Quote:
Originally Posted by Minervas Phoenix
People are trying pretty hard right now just to get cannabis legalized. They can't even get it medicinally approved. There's too much bureaucracy right now to start a resource based economy. What I'm saying is how do you get the people to want this type of thing? If you want to try this avenue, how do you combat the propaganda already in play? If it's so simple, why isn't it happening?
oh it's happening alright. There is ways to get out of the entire legal system and people are doing it. People are creating the alternative. The entire movement is a silent one. It's silenced.
If the majority as a whole doesn't choose to take responsibility guess where that road leads? Fingerprinted mall entrance, cashless microchip hardwired computer interface brained human. Internal shock treatment and computer enforced thought control. If they won't take responsibility they will go into the machinery and it will take their souls with it. That's what the dark forces want to achieve, utter destruction.
Only a little window of opportunity to turn this around before it's too late and take responsibility. This is an age old process coming to an end. That's why it's called "end game". Lets hope a critical mass of people choose love, or say goodbye to humans as a race.
You like your pot huh? The sheeple in this town pay $60 a quarter oz forQuote:
Originally Posted by stonedape
it.....wtf!?! :eek:
I wonder what would happen if they legalized pot? I bet the governments
would love love love to legalize pot if they could get away with it. Isn't that
just a hell of a lot more money for them? If they legalized it, wouldn't they
try to control everything about it, including growing and distributing?
Would we also be allowed to grow it too then?
Would there be pot stores everywhere like the beer stores here in Canada?
Would they grow and sell us crap pot, or could you shell out a few more
bucks for dynamite pot as well?
What would happen to the poor small time pot dealers? lol
Or would it just continue on the way it always has with no legal worries?
I'll tell you one thing, if it was government controlled, it would be a hell
of a lot cheaper.
These are the things I think about. lol
What about just straight decriminalization? Can someone elaborate on the difference between that and legalization? I tried to ask my stoner friends but they're just like 'man, it's like, one costs more money, man'. Is there even a difference at all?
Minervas, are you not a sheeple too? Don't you work for a living?
Don't you pay costly taxes? Don't you give ins.companies a lot of
money who very rarely ever have to pay out? Don't you also have
to pay for simple creature comforts?
This bugs the crap outta me....
You know how we try to call a company who provide us with some
kind of comfort? Say Hydro. You have an ordinary question. You'll
never get through to anyone. You'll just be sent from recording to
recording to recording or left on hold for an hour. But...if you
want through to their bill-payment department, they'll answer
almost immediately! :lol:
We are controlled and we have very little power. There's nothing
we can do about it that I can see. What's the solution?
No.Quote:
Originally Posted by Minervas Phoenix
Tell me, how would work be exchanged in a wonderful money-free resource-based economy?
6 billion people = need for organization. Money brings more order than an Utopian would-be system.
I'm not 100% sure which term is which, but one is if you take away jail time and just give a fine for weed possession under a certain weight limit (like a parking ticket), and the other means that weed possession has neither jail time nor a fine (like possessing alcohol).Quote:
Originally Posted by Grod
Thanks, I see. I'm pretty sure the fine is decriminalization. I guess I would be down with that. It would be better than having the government regulate it's distribution and/or put a heavy tax on it. Though I don't see how they could stop you from growing your own if it was legal.Quote:
Originally Posted by drewmandan
The same way they stop you from growing your own Tobacco
We have the technology and know how to makes resources avaliable. How is sea shells and sand at the beach exchanged? Try package and sell it to people at the beach that will be your job but no-one will care. No-one will give you the purchasing power. Try and sell ice to an Eskimo maybe tie a ribbon around it. He still won't buy it off you it's not a job anymore.Quote:
Tell me, how would work be exchanged in a wonderful money-free resource-based economy?
Now think about not just sand and sea shells. But other things that could be abundant. Now you have everything you need to live already. Why would you buy it? Now what is your job? If you lay in the sun it will get boring contribute/develop your talents. Realize there is an entire universe to explore not just a Job.
So how can a money system work selling sand at the beach? It can't. That's why it will fail in a resourced based economy where things are avaliable.
Remember technology can make resources intelligence is put to use.
Would it be possible if I facilitated my "wake up" with coffee instead, because my dopaminergic receptors are all fuzzed out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Minervas Phoenix
Even the Amish and the Mennonites, who claim to be self-sustaining
communities sell their wares for money. They shop like everyone else for
food a lot of the time, and I even saw an Amish man using a debit card
at an instant teller once. Or, a lot of these self sustaining communities
just fail, not to mention Jonestown and Waco. Is this what you're talking
about Minervas?
This is what I'm talking about.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minervas Phoenix
Question for Minervas: In your utopia, what happens if someone decides they want to trade? What happens if someone prints promissory notes? In your system, you have to initiate violence against such a person. I claim that this is no ideal system.
I am 99% sure you are Mystic7.Quote:
Originally Posted by Minervas Phoenix
They wouldn't need to.Quote:
Originally Posted by drewmandan
That doesn't answer the question.Quote:
Originally Posted by Black_Eagle
It doesn't matter.Quote:
Originally Posted by drewmandan
It doesn't matter. Your question is irrelevant.Quote:
Originally Posted by drewmandan
You don't need to punish those people as they would be a small minority and it wouldn't really matter. If a majority of people did it the whole system would fall apart. I think a resource based economy would be nice, though it wouldn't work at all right now(or for at least a few hundred years). In the current state of the world, there is no way to keep the individual freedoms we have and also have a resource based economy.
The comedian on your video was Bill Hicks! My fave comedian of all time!
George Carlin is my second fave. RIP Bill and George!
In the video the guy suggests that the only way the system will change
is by refusing to participate. I have to now bring up again...look what
happened at Waco.
The statement 'Weapons of Mass Creation' is contradictory. It should
be 'Tools of Mass Creation. :)
Suppose everyone is provided 4 potatoes and 4 loaves of bread in this society. But person A really likes potatoes and person B really likes bread. What if person A trades 2 loaves of bread to person B for 2 potatoes?Quote:
Originally Posted by Black_Eagle
What if, furthermore, person C runs a bread factory and notices that his land is better suited to producing potatoes, and he starts producing all potatoes. But then he has no bread, so he trades his surplus potatoes for some loaves of bread?
Who said it was a utopia or simply my idea. Lots of people understand this common sense who are smart. Can we get that elephant out of the room. Your questions seem to have specific bias aim here. Seriously, what happens if someone wants to sell and trade ocean water at the beach? Nothing because people are already swimming in it. You couldn't trade ocean water if you tried.Quote:
Question for Minervas: In your utopia, what happens if someone decides they want to trade? What happens if someone prints promissory notes? In your system, you have to initiate violence against such a person. I claim that this is no ideal system.
How many times do I have to make that analogy before you give it a rest and ask a new question.
Supreme it is weapons of mass creation. Don't try and change it. lol.
There would be more than 4 loaves of bread and potatoes avaliable. You can swap each others food around if you want when there is enough for everyone you can have either bread or potatoes. This does not present a problem as both are avaliable. Thank you for your question.Quote:
Suppose everyone is provided 4 potatoes and 4 loaves of bread in this society. But person A really likes potatoes and person B really likes bread.
Person C does not run a bread factory alone bread is produced regardless of a person. Remember it's assuming some intelligence exists. People who are not smart enough can continue in the old way of getting ripped off, thinking it's impossible.Quote:
What if, furthermore, person C runs a bread factory
Now here's your weekend news.
A resource based economy would have to have a surplus of food. A drastic surplus to the point that all people would be able to get enough quality food and other essentials that they wouldn't want more. I think the idea is that if stop rich people from being ridiculously greedy and power hungry, then there is far more than enough to go around. Which in the case of food, there is. World hunger could be pretty easily solved if we allocate resources correctly. Though personally I don't think just getting rid of money is gonna do this. I think it would be easier to solve these problems within the system of money, then once society is functioning on some kind of intelligent level you could get rid of money as people would be able to learn how to treat others.(though I would rather keep currency as I think it would be easier to trade high quality goods that won't be in surplus such as musical instruments and new technology, somethings will never be in abundance.)Quote:
Originally Posted by drewmandan
We could take the money we currently spend on military functions and solve hunger with just that in 10-20 years easy. Maybe spend it on creating an actual education system instead of brainwashing children with patriotic bullshit like we do now. The system of one man taking advantage of another(usually called government) will not end unless we do something to fix or end the current education system. It is set right now in a way that teaches that war is something that has to happen. As long as people have this mentality we will not be free. We will not know peace. As long as one man thinks he is better or smarter or different than another because of his location in on the planet we are gonna have a class system. The only way a currency free society(or any truly civilized society) can exist is through an end to the class system.
Money is not the root of all evil. The root of all evil is one man taking advantage of another man. Even if you get rid of money this can still happen(I think this may be drews point). What we need to do is educate people.
Chase those crazy baldheads outta town.
I think we agree in principle. My point was that scarcity will always exist at least for some things. Sure, in the future food may become post-scarcity. It's actually plausible. Right now in the Western world we already live in an economy where information, water, and to some extent even energy are post scarcity, so I can understand that notion. But I was trying to use food as a metaphor, which apparently some people didn't understand (Minervas).Quote:
Originally Posted by stonedape
You see, if and when food becomes truly post scarcity, humans will not be content to just sit around in the garden of Eden that they've created for themselves. People will want to create. But you can't immediately create an infinite amount of something. If someone invents a flying car, there won't instantaneously be 10 trillion flying cars. Scarcity will always always exist on the edge of what's possible. And hence, money will always and must always exist.
Don't confuse the messenger with the message. Fiat money is bad, but money itself is very good. This may be hard for some people to see when there are children starving in Africa right now, but some day in the future that won't be the case. At some point, food and good health will become so easy that everyone has it for free. So don't even try to use that example to bash money. If anyone wants to try to argue against money, it better damn well not mention fiat currency or poverty, because both of those have NOTHING to do with money.
Your argument goes something like this....It's impossible to create enough resources to thrive because I want it to be more difficult. So it can't can't can't be done or else I will cry.Quote:
scarcity will always exist
Come on use your brain. Technology can create machines which can make life easier instead of more difficult. But no you want to believe resources is impossible to create without scarcity and money, even though money is debt and scarcity is from ignorance.Quote:
If someone invents a flying car, there won't instantaneously be 10 trillion flying cars
Yeah right.Quote:
money itself is very good
Here is some more news then....
First of all, I will say that you're not going to convert anyone to your hippy mumbojumbo by being a dick.Quote:
Originally Posted by Minervas Phoenix
I said explicitly in my last post, which you clearly did not read, that the necessities of life will probably some day no longer be scarce. I put that in there just for you. And you still didn't read it. So the joke's on you.
You're conflating so many contradicting and irrational ideas in this mess that I don't know how to even respond intelligently.Quote:
Originally Posted by Minervas Phoenix
But I will point out this thing about 'money is debt'. Again, this is solid proof that you did not read my last post. Fiat money is debt. Not all money is fiat money. Therefore, not all money is debt.
What money is not fiat that we use? The economy consists of fiat money. It all started with a loan as money didn't grow on trees. Yes, all money is debt.Quote:
Not all money is fiat money. Therefore, not all money is debt.
Now praise the laws of physics.
You're talking about reordering the entire socioeconomic system, so why is the money we currently use relevant to this conversation?Quote:
Originally Posted by Minervas Phoenix
Please explain how the gold promissory notes used up until the early 20th century in the US were 'debt'.Quote:
Originally Posted by Minervas Phoenix
No, I mean gold notes. Back in the 19th century, various banks would print notes with gold values on their face that could be taken to a bank and exchanged for gold. Learn your fucking history.Quote:
Originally Posted by Minervas Phoenix
Do you have a time machine so we can go back before fiat money to where gold was a resource? Gold notes? You mean gold coins. Gold is a resource. That's not money. Gold is a resource. Gold is not debt. Money is.Quote:
Please explain how the gold promissory notes used up until the early 20th century in the US were 'debt'.
Go ahead and dig a deeper delusion. We can unveil a better truth.
Those notes were not gold, so they were not a resource. They were debt. As they represented imagination of the gold. Not the gold itself. When you trade your imagination for gold. You create a loan on that gold, even if you didn't admit it without interest. I can collect bottle tops and make it into a special brand and say it represents gold. If your stupid enough you might give me some gold for them. And I would control gold with my brand of bottle tops that I made from my imagination. It's a good stepping stone to fiat money. Especially so they can forget the gold was a resource and that they traded it for the bottle tops. This isn't relevant to federal reserve notes which are a loan in addition to compounded interest on that loan which is impossible to pay back from the existent money in circulation today.Quote:
various banks would print notes with gold values on their face that could be taken to a bank and exchanged for gold
Go ahead and dig a deeper delusion. We can unveil another truth.
No, they were actual gold. Get this straight. They represented gold in that if you had a $100 bill you OWNED $100 worth of gold. That is very different from a fiat system. You don't seem to understand the difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by Minervas Phoenix
Don't bother Drew. Posting obscure videos and strange collages of images is a Mystic trademark. I don't know if you were here when Mystic was in his prime, but he is not to be taken seriously.
That's not how it works with the federal reserve notes which is the currency today that is debt. So what is the relevance?Quote:
No, they were actual gold. Get this straight. They represented gold in that if you had a $100 bill you OWNED $100 worth of gold.
Understand this anyway. If something 'represents gold' that does not mean it is gold physically. That is just a piece of paper, a note that says you have gold. Duh. Who cares if you have a note. The note itself is not gold. I repeat the note itself is not gold but a representation. Understand the difference. Just because you can swap a note for some gold does not mean the note itself, is gold. Whoever can print that note has as much gold as they want don't they? if it 'represents it'. That can be exploited and was with the beginning of fractional banking. This was a stepping stone for the NWO to create fiat money. There is then a problem when the notes exceed what gold or resources exists. Hence inflation. It was always a ridiculous idea for people and this ignorance lead us into the fiat money loan system which is collapsing as we speak. Why do you think it's contracting, failing.
Once again the notes you get out of the ATM is not gold. They are notes belonging to the federal reserve and those notes belong to them plus interest. Gold is an entirely different thing. If you use the federal reserve notes to buy gold that works only as a trick, a deception. Gold value is independent from fed notes. When fed notes drop rapidly in value due to debt bubble bursting from unsustainable levels of debt created you won't be able to buy gold with it either as it will be as useful as trying to buy gold with leaves. That's when we have to face reality again. Atleast leaves are not a loan and grow on trees. Fed notes are just IOU playthings. When you pack away the toy box, back to reality again and gold has it's own value as a resource while fed notes are.....monopoly money play things, given to people as a loan to trade resources. I could make a bunch of bottle tops and say here you go, trade it for all resources but you owe me whatever bottle tops you use to trade, plus interest on them. How you can pay back bottle tops that don't exist since I would make them? How can u pay back bottle top interest? Impossible cause I make the bottle tops. So I would be demanding the impossible on the loan and you would work your butt off for nothing while I gathered it all. You give me back bla bla bottle top interest on the bottle tops I give (impossible). Now I have the bottle tops I make them and they represent resources. So I have all resources and your debt on the bottle tops plus interest is owed to me (federal reserve system). No it was a trick it's not resources it's debt. That's how the NWO controlled people on the fundamental level by creating a system that pretends something is a resource. Controlling that resource by making it unique so only you can own it. Giving it out to people and demanding interest back on it. That's how they have stolen the resources.
Because not all currency is that way. Maybe it is now, but it's still very possible to create one that is based in something. If you get rid of money you basically have to have some form of sociallism, which I'm not to big on.
Anything that is a 'currency' is because of scarcity existing making something 'rare' and so resorting to trading it. Selling ocean water at sea is not a currency because at sea ocean water is not rare. It's simple to understand but not when your brainwashed.Quote:
Because not all currency is that way
Would you rather lug around goats or gold nuggets to pay for things?Quote:
Originally Posted by Minervas Phoenix
Yes, I'm sure it's not just that I've read enough socialist material to decide that socialism would not be too fun. Scarcity will always exist. Certain goods have to be hand crafted by people nad they take a long time to make. I know a few guitar luthiers. I takes a lot of work to make a quality instrument. There will never be an abundance of them. That's why the cost a couple thousand dollars.Quote:
Originally Posted by Minervas Phoenix
I think we should try to make an abundance of what we can, but how do you go about obtaining the other things. If you just give them away people will be fighting and stealing to get them, as there'd be no other way to obtain them.
Like I said before(I think), why can't we have a resource based economy for some goods and still keep currency around for other goods? If it was non'fiat currency then I don't see the problem.
I agree that a society without money, without authority and based on love would be amazing. But one of the key elements is "based on love". So please, let's respect each other's opinions. :)
I respect rationality over an unfounded opinion any day of the week.Quote:
Originally Posted by thekroc
Thekroc was talking about love and how it's the solution. Something you may not have experienced but it exists I assure you.Quote:
I respect rationality over an unfounded opinion any day of the week