Thread: Waking up even more.

Not all money is fiat money. Therefore, not all money is debt.

What money is not fiat that we use? The economy consists of fiat money. It all started with a loan as money didn't grow on trees. Yes, all money is debt.

Now praise the laws of physics.

Originally Posted by Minervas Phoenix

What money is not fiat that we use?

You're talking about reordering the entire socioeconomic system, so why is the money we currently use relevant to this conversation?

Originally Posted by Minervas Phoenix

Yes, all money is debt.

Please explain how the gold promissory notes used up until the early 20th century in the US were 'debt'.

Originally Posted by Minervas Phoenix

Do you have a time machine so we can go back before fiat money to where gold was a resource? Gold notes? You mean gold coins. Gold is a resource. That's not money. Gold is a resource.

No, I mean gold notes. Back in the 19th century, various banks would print notes with gold values on their face that could be taken to a bank and exchanged for gold. Learn your fucking history.

Please explain how the gold promissory notes used up until the early 20th century in the US were 'debt'.

Do you have a time machine so we can go back before fiat money to where gold was a resource? Gold notes? You mean gold coins. Gold is a resource. That's not money. Gold is a resource. Gold is not debt. Money is.

Go ahead and dig a deeper delusion. We can unveil a better truth.

various banks would print notes with gold values on their face that could be taken to a bank and exchanged for gold

Those notes were not gold, so they were not a resource. They were debt. As they represented imagination of the gold. Not the gold itself. When you trade your imagination for gold. You create a loan on that gold, even if you didn't admit it without interest. I can collect bottle tops and make it into a special brand and say it represents gold. If your stupid enough you might give me some gold for them. And I would control gold with my brand of bottle tops that I made from my imagination. It's a good stepping stone to fiat money. Especially so they can forget the gold was a resource and that they traded it for the bottle tops. This isn't relevant to federal reserve notes which are a loan in addition to compounded interest on that loan which is impossible to pay back from the existent money in circulation today.

Go ahead and dig a deeper delusion. We can unveil another truth.

Originally Posted by Minervas Phoenix

Those notes were not gold, so they were not a resource. They were debt. As they represented imagination of the gold.

No, they were actual gold. Get this straight. They represented gold in that if you had a $100 bill you OWNED $100 worth of gold. That is very different from a fiat system. You don't seem to understand the difference.

Don't bother Drew. Posting obscure videos and strange collages of images is a Mystic trademark. I don't know if you were here when Mystic was in his prime, but he is not to be taken seriously.

No, they were actual gold. Get this straight. They represented gold in that if you had a $100 bill you OWNED $100 worth of gold.

That's not how it works with the federal reserve notes which is the currency today that is debt. So what is the relevance?

Understand this anyway. If something 'represents gold' that does not mean it is gold physically. That is just a piece of paper, a note that says you have gold. Duh. Who cares if you have a note. The note itself is not gold. I repeat the note itself is not gold but a representation. Understand the difference. Just because you can swap a note for some gold does not mean the note itself, is gold. Whoever can print that note has as much gold as they want don't they? if it 'represents it'. That can be exploited and was with the beginning of fractional banking. This was a stepping stone for the NWO to create fiat money. There is then a problem when the notes exceed what gold or resources exists. Hence inflation. It was always a ridiculous idea for people and this ignorance lead us into the fiat money loan system which is collapsing as we speak. Why do you think it's contracting, failing.

Once again the notes you get out of the ATM is not gold. They are notes belonging to the federal reserve and those notes belong to them plus interest. Gold is an entirely different thing. If you use the federal reserve notes to buy gold that works only as a trick, a deception. Gold value is independent from fed notes. When fed notes drop rapidly in value due to debt bubble bursting from unsustainable levels of debt created you won't be able to buy gold with it either as it will be as useful as trying to buy gold with leaves. That's when we have to face reality again. Atleast leaves are not a loan and grow on trees. Fed notes are just IOU playthings. When you pack away the toy box, back to reality again and gold has it's own value as a resource while fed notes are.....monopoly money play things, given to people as a loan to trade resources. I could make a bunch of bottle tops and say here you go, trade it for all resources but you owe me whatever bottle tops you use to trade, plus interest on them. How you can pay back bottle tops that don't exist since I would make them? How can u pay back bottle top interest? Impossible cause I make the bottle tops. So I would be demanding the impossible on the loan and you would work your butt off for nothing while I gathered it all. You give me back bla bla bottle top interest on the bottle tops I give (impossible). Now I have the bottle tops I make them and they represent resources. So I have all resources and your debt on the bottle tops plus interest is owed to me (federal reserve system). No it was a trick it's not resources it's debt. That's how the NWO controlled people on the fundamental level by creating a system that pretends something is a resource. Controlling that resource by making it unique so only you can own it. Giving it out to people and demanding interest back on it. That's how they have stolen the resources.

Because not all currency is that way. Maybe it is now, but it's still very possible to create one that is based in something. If you get rid of money you basically have to have some form of sociallism, which I'm not to big on.

Because not all currency is that way

Anything that is a 'currency' is because of scarcity existing making something 'rare' and so resorting to trading it. Selling ocean water at sea is not a currency because at sea ocean water is not rare. It's simple to understand but not when your brainwashed.

Originally Posted by Minervas Phoenix

Anything that is a 'currency' is because of scarcity existing making something 'rare' and so resorting to trading it. Selling ocean water at sea is not a currency because at sea ocean water is not rare. It's simple to understand but not when your brainwashed.

Would you rather lug around goats or gold nuggets to pay for things?

Originally Posted by Minervas Phoenix

Anything that is a 'currency' is because of scarcity existing making something 'rare' and so resorting to trading it. Selling ocean water at sea is not a currency because at sea ocean water is not rare. It's simple to understand but not when your brainwashed.

Yes, I'm sure it's not just that I've read enough socialist material to decide that socialism would not be too fun. Scarcity will always exist. Certain goods have to be hand crafted by people nad they take a long time to make. I know a few guitar luthiers. I takes a lot of work to make a quality instrument. There will never be an abundance of them. That's why the cost a couple thousand dollars.

I think we should try to make an abundance of what we can, but how do you go about obtaining the other things. If you just give them away people will be fighting and stealing to get them, as there'd be no other way to obtain them.

Like I said before(I think), why can't we have a resource based economy for some goods and still keep currency around for other goods? If it was non'fiat currency then I don't see the problem.

I agree that a society without money, without authority and based on love would be amazing. But one of the key elements is "based on love". So please, let's respect each other's opinions.

Originally Posted by thekroc

I agree that a society without money, without authority and based on love would be amazing. But one of the key elements is "based on love". So please, let's respect each other's opinions.

I respect rationality over an unfounded opinion any day of the week.

I respect rationality over an unfounded opinion any day of the week

Thekroc was talking about love and how it's the solution. Something you may not have experienced but it exists I assure you.