What is a Terrorist?

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Originally Posted by drewmandan

I await the concrete explanation behind the cereal box rhetoric you just repeated. I can't respond unless you make yourself clear.

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Economic debate is folly but..

For the sake of brevity; make it easier for more youth to get an education. Increase the tax on higher income brackets to help with this. Leave or decrease corporate tax. Give more leniency towards small business loans. Crack down on insurance companies policies underwriting process.

As for international affairs and trade...

I'm not sure how I feel about that one.

Not something I am adamant about. So, in that respect, I am really curious what your thoughts are - if you are able to share them without being insulting.

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We're talking about the bailout. Explain how a bailout is an investment in tomorrow or whatever you said.

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Originally Posted by drewmandan

We're talking about the bailout. Explain how a bailout is an investment in tomorrow or whatever you said.

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What do you suggest as alternatives..?

I wish you knew how flexible I was about the matter... I'm certainly not favoring one idea over the other. Just want you to know that I am not arguing one thing or another.

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The economy is slowing, if you raise taxes on people that makes it worse as things are harder on people. We in a huge amount of debt, if you lower taxes on corporations, we will go even further into debt. Banks giving bad loans is what caused a lot of the problems, giving them more leniency, is the same as telling them to make more bad loans, which makes things worse.

Of course the thing you didn't mention was to cut spending in the government. By drastically cutting government waste and spending we have a lot more money, which means you can lower taxes. Of course no one wants to cut government waste, at least no one in the government.

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Originally Posted by Alric

The economy is slowing, if you raise taxes on people that makes it worse as things are harder on people.

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I said higher taxes on the higher income brackets. Hell, even Bill O'Reilly agreed with this (at 20% anyway).

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We in a huge amount of debt, if you lower taxes on corporations, we will go even further into debt.

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Uhm.. why?

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Banks giving bad loans is what caused a lot of the problems, giving them more leniency, is the same as telling them to make more bad loans, which makes things worse.

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Perhaps government issued business loans would be better. I'm not really sure how to stand on supporting small business considering how much fail.

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Of course the thing you didn't mention was to cut spending in the government.

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Well that's for sure - the war economy has not shown much benefit lately besides pride..?

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By drastically cutting government waste and spending we have a lot more money, which means you can lower taxes.

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It is easy to say that; but what are you cutting? Education? Health? Military?

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Foreign aid to other countries. Wasted subsidies on things that really can't compete on their on in the market. Definitely the military. The wars and stuff need to stop, as well as all the bases we have all around the world that we do not need.

I mean we can seriously cut waste from nearly everything, but thats a place to start.

In my eyes, A terrorist is someone who is against life; or the united states,

Spoiler for Terrorist:

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/i...a_binladen.jpg

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Originally Posted by Alric

Foreign aid to other countries.

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Don't underestimate how important the imports are...... unless you mean military, then ok.

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Wasted subsidies on things that really can't compete on their on in the market.

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Such as...?

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Definitely the military. The wars and stuff need to stop, as well as all the bases we have all around the world that we do not need.

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For sure.

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Originally Posted by Alric

The bailouts only make things worse. The economy is doing bad so what do we do? We spend even more money that we don't have! Here is a question for you. How do you dig yourself out of debt by spending money?

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I totally agree with you on that. We need to cut spending big time and lower taxes big time. Then people will start buying stuff like crazy, and THAT is what stimulates an economy. Raising taxes leads to the buying of less, which inhibits an economy. I am absolutely terrified of what Obama might be about to do to our economy. I actually wonder if this country will even exist in ten years.

And fuck the Republican party for abandoning real conservatism.

Well for one, all the money we give away to corrupt governments. A lot of it is military and stuff. Like we don't have a big enough military already, we have to send money to other countries so they can buy weapons too. Even the stuff that is supposed to go for food and stuff, end up in the hands of corrupt governments however and the money is being wasted.

As for subsidies, our government has them for everything and all are wasteful. We pretty much give money away to all big industries in our country in an attempt to prompt them up. If a company is failing, give them more money. The bailout stuff is just the latest news in a long line of money wasted to promote poor, failing businesses which cant compete on their own.

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Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Raising taxes leads to the buying of less, which inhibits an economy.

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What of raising the taxes of higher income brackets and moderating the lower?

As I said, even Bill O'Reilly agreed to this. But what about you?

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Originally Posted by O'nus

What of raising the taxes of higher income brackets and moderating the lower?

As I said, even Bill O'Reilly agreed to this. But what about you?

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No. The rich do too much spending for them to be inhibited. Let's lower their taxes a lot and watch the economy get jacked way up.

I am more conservative than Bill O'Reilly on economics, but far more liberal than any Democrat in Congress on social issues. That makes me a misfit and the subject of a great deal of political hate from both major sides. Conservatives think I am a left wing fanatic, and liberals think I am a right wing fanatic. It's hard for me to talk about politics without pissing off 95% of the people who hear me.

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Originally Posted by Universal Mind

No. The rich do too much spending for them to be inhibited. Let's lower their taxes a lot and watch the economy get jacked way up.

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What is it better to spend money on:
- Letting rich spend their investments on God knows where
- Taking that money and offering towards school bursaries

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Originally Posted by O'nus

What is it better to spend money on:
- Letting rich spend their investments on God knows where
- Taking that money and offering towards school bursaries

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Definitely the first one. I want the education system to be completely privatized. That would create competition, which would get the school workers working much harder. As it is, they in too many cases do a half ass job and get away with it. There is a reason our private school system is much better than our public school system. People always talk trash about how sorry our education system is. Well, they can't say it about our private school system. Privatizing the public school system would also do a lot for the economy.

After we wrap up our major activities in Afghanistan and Iraq, which I hope will happen soon (Though I want bases to remain.), I want even military spending to go way down. I want most of our government spending to stop. It is time for the private sector to do pretty much everything. We have way too much government, and it is creating a fire that we keep trying to put out by setting more things on fire. Eventually, the country will be burned down if we don't move in completely the opposite direction.

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Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Definitely the first one. I want the education system to be completely privatized. That would create competition, which would get the school workers working much harder. As it is, they in too many cases do a half ass job and get away with it. There is a reason our private school system is much better than our public school system. People always talk trash about how sorry our education system is. Well, they can't say it about our private school system. Privatizing the public school system would also do a lot for the economy.

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Add another thing on the "to buy" list for the lower income class? Do you really want to cut a significant amount of people in the country out of education?

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After we wrap up our major activities in Afghanistan and Iraq, which I hope will happen soon (Though I want bases to remain.), I want even military spending to go way down. I want most of our government spending to stop. It is time for the private sector to do pretty much everything. We have way too much government, and it is creating a fire that we keep trying to put out by setting more things on fire. Eventually, the country will be burned down if we don't move in completely the opposite direction.

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Agreed.

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Onus, I want to make it very clear that I disagree almost as strongly with Alric as I do with you.

Now, I suggest you read up on the Fractional Reserve lending system and the basis upon which the US government prints currency. Once you understand these things, we can talk about how a bailout is a regressive tax in disguise.

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Originally Posted by drewmandan

Onus, I want to make it very clear that I disagree almost as strongly with Alric as I do with you.

Now, I suggest you read up on the Fractional Reserve lending system and the basis upon which the US government prints currency. Once you understand these things, we can talk about how a bailout is a regressive tax in disguise.

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I was not really discussing the bailout. Simply where to budget.

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Originally Posted by O'nus

I was not really discussing the bailout. Simply where to budget.

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We should start with the bailout. It's a good simple analogy for the system as a whole. Please read up on the fractional reserve lending system and US currency and report back.

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Originally Posted by O'nus

Do you really want to cut a significant amount of people in the country out of education?

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No no no no no.... :shock: I think we should have a voucher system for those who can't afford education. We could have that with a small fraction of the money we are spending on public education now.

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Originally Posted by Universal Mind

No no no no no.... :shock: I think we should have a voucher system for those who can't afford education. We could have that with a small fraction of the money we are spending on public education now.

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Voucher system, eh?

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We could get rid of income tax, which would cut everyone taxes. Rich people, poor people, everyone in the middle. All around everyone getting a lot more money.

Ron Paul actually did the math and figured out how we could get rid of the income tax in the US, without it costing us a thing. It mostly involved cutting the money we spend overseas in stupid foreign aid and military actions.

Are all the wars really worth a third to half of your income every year? Well apparently a lot of people think so. Personally, I think thats insane.

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Originally Posted by Alric

Are all the wars really worth a third to half of your income every year? Well apparently a lot of people think so. Personally, I think thats insane.

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It's not like that. Less than half of federal income tax goes to the military, and only a fraction of the military budget goes to the wars. The taxes were higher before we went to war. With or without war, taxes are what you described.

Where the money goes is irrelevant in this case. If income brought in 1 billion dollars and we spent 50 billion on the war. Then clearly you stop the war you have an extra 50 billion dollars which allows you to no longer need income tax, and to then use the rest to pay off the debt.

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Originally Posted by Alric

Where the money goes is irrelevant in this case. If income brought in 1 billion dollars and we spent 50 billion on the war. Then clearly you stop the war you have an extra 50 billion dollars which allows you to no longer need income tax, and to then use the rest to pay off the debt.

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Wars aren't financed by taxes. They're financed by treasury bonds, which are essentially a regressive tax that everyone pays whether they like it or not, in the form of inflation.

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Originally Posted by drewmandan

Wars aren't financed by taxes. They're financed by treasury bonds, which are essentially a regressive tax that everyone pays whether they like it or not, in the form of inflation.

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What percentage of war funding comes from treasury bonds, and isn't it tax money that is invested in treasury bonds?