I am sceptical about this.
Neither am I saying that I believe it nor that I don't.
But that's also besides the point: My intend is to start
a serious debate on a controversial matter- not on a
personal level, but strictly 'factual', if possible
So, I'm wondering...
what do you think of the Disclosure Projects at the National Press Club in 2001 and 2007 on here?
That's as official as it gets, I guess.
It shouldn't be impossible to varify, no?
Below is a partial list of some of the more notable people involved in the Project:
* Nick Pope: British Ministry of Defense Official
* Dr. Roberto Pinotti: Italian UFO expert
* Astronaut Gordon Cooper
* Astronaut Edgar Mitchell
* Monsignor Corrado Balducci (deceased)
* Dr. Carol Rosin
* Dan Willis: US Navy, Communications
* Admiral Lord Hill-Norton: Five-Star Admiral, Former Head of the British Ministry of Defense (deceased)
* Gordon Creighton: Former British Foreign Service official
* Dr. Robert Wood: McDonnell Douglas Aerospace Engineer
* Dr. Alfred Webre: Former Senior Policy Analyst, Stanford Research Institute
* Denise McKenzie: Former SAIC employee
* Colonel Philip J. Corso: US Army (deceased)
* Colonel Ross Dedrickson: US Air Force/AEC (ret.)
* Lieutenant Walter Haut: US Navy
* Dr. Hal Puthoff
* Dr. Eugene Mallove
* Lieutenant Colonel Thomas E. Bearden: US Army (ret.)
* John Callahan: FAA Head of Accidents and Investigations
* Larry Warren: Security Officer, RAF Bentwaters Woodbridge, NATO
* Major George A. Filer III: US Air Force (ret.)
* John Maynard: Defense Intelligence Agency (ret.)
* Captain Robert Salas: US Air Force, SAC Launch Controller
* Don Phillips: US Air Force, Lockheed Skunkworks, design engineer/CIA contractor, worked with Kelly Johnson
* Lieutenant Colonel Charles Brown: US Air Force (ret.) Office of Special Investigations, Project Grudge
* Mark McCandlish: US Air Force, conceptual artist for Rockwell X-30 and HYSTP programs
* James Kopf: US Navy/NSA Crypto Communications
* Major General Vasily Alexeyev: Russian Air Force
(wikipedia.org)
---
Also government agencies are starting to reveal files:
Quote:
The first in a series of Ministry of Defence UFO files, dating back to the 1970s, have been released on The National Archives' website today, Wednesday 14 May 2008.
edit: I now realized, that there is another thread. Sorry, feel free to delete or close.
02-09-2009, 09:53 AM
LucidFlanders
Old news, free energy and stuff. I have no idea if this is real, but it's been going on for 15 years which makes this seem alittle more intresting, and so many people are involved.
02-10-2009, 01:00 AM
drewmandan
UFO stands for Unidentified ALIENS!
02-11-2009, 11:47 AM
nitsuJ
Aliens aren't real, at least not the ones that travel from planet to planet/galaxy to galaxy.
Maybe there's some other type of being out there in other planets/galaxies, but they sure aren't traveling to other galaxies.
02-11-2009, 12:05 PM
dajo
Do you have a source for that?
Since your statements seem so final.
02-11-2009, 06:53 PM
nitsuJ
I have science and logical thinking that backs me up so far. :]
02-11-2009, 06:56 PM
Carôusoul
Fuck yea, nitsuJ.
02-11-2009, 07:23 PM
DeepBlue
When science has reached its zenith and logical thinking has permeated what's far out there I'll accept that such aliens don't exit. Isn't there a lot of testimony in those vids?
02-11-2009, 07:37 PM
Xei
Free energy is bollocks, sorry.
Aliens almost definitely aren't bollocks, but I'm sceptical that any of them have anything to do with Earth, or have the capabilities either. There are some things you just can't do in the universe.
02-12-2009, 12:28 AM
nitsuJ
Well for me, until it's proven that there's some sort of aircraft that can reach the speed of light, or break it, and somehow has an unlimited source of fuel/energy, I don't believe aliens are traveling here from other galaxies. I don't believe UFOs are aliens at all, just UNIDENTIFIED FLYING OBJECTS.
I don't believe there's technology out there anywhere that can give an unlimited source of fuel/energy to break the speed of light, and so far according to physics as far as I know, it's not possible.
I also don't believe they're traveling through wormholes, unless they can somehow create two blackholes and make them both combine with each other to make the wormhole, and I don't believe they're teleporting either. :]
There may be "aliens" out there, but I highly doubt they're flying around in aircrafts traveling at 186,000MPH or faster.
If they are, then they obviously have some unlimited source of energy and they should give it to me, I'm getting tired of my gas guzzler sitting outside. I wouldn't mind having me one of those Banshees from Halo to drive around.
02-12-2009, 02:01 AM
Xei
It's been proven to be impossible, really. You can't go faster than light, because light always goes at the same speed, no matter how fast you travel.
You don't need infinite energy to travel an infinite distance, by the way. As soon as you have velocity, you don't need to keep applying a force, as there is no force opposing your velocity, unlike on Earth where there is air resistance, etcetera.
02-12-2009, 02:31 AM
Alric
Thats true, given enough time you can go any where. So they do not have to go faster than the speed of light. They just need to live a really long time, have children along the way, or something similar. Maybe they put their minds into robots and can repair them self, and don't need food or water. As for energy you just use solar power or something. Even if you enter an area of space that has so little light you can't power anything, you would continue to cruise along and eventually enter a solar system or something, power comes back on and you keep on going.
Of course, highly intelligent beings could figure out all kind of things that people might not be able to even consider today. The fact is that we do not know everything in the world.
02-12-2009, 05:35 AM
nitsuJ
True, but what makes you believe that all aliens are highly intelligent if they exist? They could have the same IQ as a caveman.
02-12-2009, 07:14 AM
LucidFlanders
Quote:
Originally Posted by nitsuJ
Aliens aren't real, at least not the ones that travel from planet to planet/galaxy to galaxy.
Maybe there's some other type of being out there in other planets/galaxies, but they sure aren't traveling to other galaxies.
That sounds pretty ignorant. If not for the ice age WE would be HELL OF A LOT more advanced then we are now, maybe space age, who knows? the ice age was millions of years or something (if i am wrong correct me), you can't say we are the most advanced species in the universe JUST because we have not seen anything. I would not bet against there being a space flight type of aliens, the universe is rather big, the universe is not just our galaxy either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xei
Free energy is bollocks, sorry.
Aliens almost definitely aren't bollocks, but I'm sceptical that any of them have anything to do with Earth, or have the capabilities either. There are some things you just can't do in the universe.
Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. I rather keep the debate open just incase we advance and find out things that seem impossible in todays eyes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nitsuJ
True, but what makes you believe that all aliens are highly intelligent if they exist? They could have the same IQ as a caveman.
Who says all? of course not all aliens are of the intelligent type. We are talking about the intelligent type, though.
Edit:
~
02-12-2009, 10:38 AM
nitsuJ
Quote:
Originally Posted by LucidFlanders
That sounds pretty ignorant. If not for the ice age WE would be HELL OF A LOT more advanced then we are now, maybe space age, who knows? the ice age was millions of years or something (if i am wrong correct me), you can't say we are the most advanced species in the universe JUST because we have not seen anything. I would not bet against there being a space flight type of aliens, the universe is rather big, the universe is not just our galaxy either.
Way to draw random conclusions. I never said we're the most advanced, I said I don't believe there's any aliens traveling here from other galaxies. So far, as far as science is concerned, aliens aren't able to travel from galaxies to other galaxies. Unless they've figured out a way an aircraft to travel at the speed of light and not screw itself up, and they've found an unlimited fuel source.
I gave the possibility to there being life out there, but I highly doubt that if there is life out there they're aliens like Independence Day, and high-tech like that.
I never said the universe is only our galaxy either, I even mentioned galaxy to galaxy travel. The universe is theoretically infinite. There's a good chance that there's life out there, but I'm highly doubtful that that life is flying around on spaghetti saucers at 186,000MPH to come hang out with Earthlings, or other people from different planets, if there are any.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LucidFlanders
Who says all? of course not all aliens are of the intelligent type. We are talking about the intelligent type, though.
How do you know there's an intelligent type? They could be creatures that look like a big, heated up, sun dried turd with the IQ of an opossum.
Most of the time when people talk about the "aliens" that "travel" to Earth, they're talking about highly intelligent aliens. If there's a creature that's found out how to build an aircraft that can travel at the speed of light from galaxy to galaxy on some ultimate fuel source, and someone figured out how to expand it's life when traveling such a far distance, I'd consider that highly intelligent.
I've never heard of any "dumb aliens," it's always "highly intelligent aliens," or something similar.
02-12-2009, 03:23 PM
dajo
Quote:
Originally Posted by LucidFlanders
Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. I rather keep the debate open just incase we advance and find out things that seem impossible in todays eyes.
That's kind of what I am thinking.
I'd really like to see a more scientific and factual handling of this
subject. The debate at the national press clubs, as well as other
publications rarely appear in the mainstream media.
But I have a question to those, who think this is idiotic:
What is your explanation for what I have postet up there?
Do you just write all these people off as being insane, lieing,
desperate for attention? I don't think it really adds up, like that.
Therefore, again - there are specific claims being made, there is
a lot of information about this subject - i just don't really see why
there is no real, open discussion about it. All that leaves is speculation.
And we're getting nowhere.
02-12-2009, 11:25 PM
nitsuJ
Quote:
Originally Posted by dajo
That's kind of what I am thinking.
I'd really like to see a more scientific and factual handling of this
subject. The debate at the national press clubs, as well as other
publications rarely appear in the mainstream media.
But I have a question to those, who think this is idiotic:
What is your explanation for what I have postet up there?
Do you just write all these people off as being insane, lieing,
desperate for attention? I don't think it really adds up, like that.
Therefore, again - there are specific claims being made, there is
a lot of information about this subject - i just don't really see why
there is no real, open discussion about it. All that leaves is speculation.
And we're getting nowhere.
I didn't watch the videos (I'm dial-up and don't have the patience to load videos about aliens and UFOs), but if they're talking about UFOs, UFOs are real obviously. UFOs aren't aliens, just unidentified flying objects.
I can go outside at night-time and see an object flying through the sky with lights blinking on and off, I can't tell if it's a plane or what because it's so dark, so as far as I'm concerned it's an UFO. Mind you a UFO isn't an alien, and I'm not going to come to the conclusion that there's aliens inside of the object flying around.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dajo
But I have a question to those, who think this is idiotic:
What is your explanation for what I have postet up there?
Do you just write all these people off as being insane, lieing,
desperate for attention? I don't think it really adds up, like that.
If they're talking about actual aliens flying to earth and cruising around in their six fours, then yes they are insane, lying, and desperate for attention.
02-13-2009, 03:17 AM
LucidFlanders
Quote:
Originally Posted by nitsuJ
Way to draw random conclusions. I never said we're the most advanced, I said I don't believe there's any aliens traveling here from other galaxies.
The way you are talking it makes it sound like you think we are the most advanced, that's why i said that.
Quote:
So far, as far as science is concerned, aliens aren't able to travel from galaxies to other galaxies. Unless they've figured out a way an aircraft to travel at the speed of light and not screw itself up, and they've found an unlimited fuel source.
So...just because todays science does not know it means it's impossible for it to happen? science can't advance? that's almost as bad as religion. I'm sure there is a way to travel from galaxy to galaxy, but we are not advanced technological(sp?) enough to even comprehend it.If you have played an FPS game that is like saying "he must be a cheater, i can't kill him therefore he's cheating"
Quote:
I gave the possibility to there being life out there, but I highly doubt that if there is life out there they're aliens like Independence Day, and high-tech like that.
Again WHY? are people this arrogant? evolution happens, just as technology advancing, how can there not be space flying aliens? space is quite vast.
Quote:
I never said the universe is only our galaxy either, I even mentioned galaxy to galaxy travel.
You made it sound quite small by how you think humans are like the creame of the crop and nothing in the universe can be compared to us intelligence wise. The universe is bigger then everyone on the planet combined can even imagine, so the possibility of a species intelligent as humans is quite possible although probably limited to some areas in space. Humans can't be the only intelligent life in this big universe.
Quote:
The universe is theoretically infinite. There's a good chance that there's life out there, but I'm highly doubtful that that life is flying around on spaghetti saucers at 186,000MPH to come hang out with Earthlings, or other people from different planets, if there are any.
Theoretically, only because we have yet to even find an end. Also, it is not to hang out with Earthlings, it's to explore the vastness of space. it's quite vast, so there is alot to explore and find out. There can be MANY possibilities as to why they could end up here visiting. Maybe they just wanna travel, maybe relocation, maybe seek something they need to survive on their planet that might be on a different planet, the list goes on and on and on.
Quote:
How do you know there's an intelligent type? They could be creatures that look like a big, heated up, sun dried turd with the IQ of an opossum.
How do you know there isn't? and don't say because we have not found any. We have not found any IQless aliens and you think that is more possible then any IQ aliens which is quite baffling, you really should just say there is no aliens.
Quote:
Most of the time when people talk about the "aliens" that "travel" to Earth, they're talking about highly intelligent aliens. If there's a creature that's found out how to build an aircraft that can travel at the speed of light from galaxy to galaxy on some ultimate fuel source, and someone figured out how to expand it's life when traveling such a far distance, I'd consider that highly intelligent.
I've never heard of any "dumb aliens," it's always "highly intelligent aliens," or something similar.
Dumb aliens? aslong as they can think and be aware they can't possible be dumb. Why can't you guys just see that things are possible and not hide behind your science? Look how big the universe is...LOOK HOW BIG!!!! you can't possible sit there on your seats saying with a straight face that we are the only intelligent life in the universe. That is 1 hell of an ego trip.
02-13-2009, 03:49 AM
nitsuJ
Quote:
Originally Posted by LucidFlanders
The way you are talking it makes it sound like you think we are the most advanced, that's why i said that.
As far as I know (and concerned) at the moment, we are the most advanced. I see no reason so far in believing there's some super advanced race of organisms out there, or we'd be getting contacted by them by now in some way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LucidFlanders
So...just because todays science does not know it means it's impossible for it to happen? science can't advance? that's almost as bad as religion. I'm sure there is a way to travel from galaxy to galaxy, but we are not advanced technological(sp?) enough to even comprehend it.If you have played an FPS game that is like saying "he must be a cheater, i can't kill him therefore he's cheating"
It's already been proven the speed of light can't be broken, and where do you think they're going to get an energy source big enough to get an aircraft up to 186,000MPH (appox.)? How are the aliens going to live for so long for such a long trip?
Quote:
Originally Posted by LucidFlanders
Again WHY? are people this arrogant? evolution happens, just as technology advancing, how can there not be space flying aliens? space is quite vast.
...
Because I haven't seen any reason to believe in a highly intelligent life form is living out somewhere in the universe. If they're so much more intelligent and super advanced that us, why aren't they contacting us?
Quote:
Originally Posted by LucidFlanders
You made it sound quite small by how you think humans are like the creame of the crop and nothing in the universe can be compared to us intelligence wise. The universe is bigger then everyone on the planet combined can even imagine, so the possibility of a species intelligent as humans is quite possible although probably limited to some areas in space. Humans can't be the only intelligent life in this big universe.
Are you ignoring half of my posts? I just told you in that post that the universe is theoretically infinite. Humans CAN be the only intelligent life in this big universe, but there's a chance they're not. I've still seen no reason to believe something super advanced and super intelligent is out there, besides us. Maybe something equivalent to us, or a little bit more primitive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LucidFlanders
Theoretically, only because we have yet to even find an end. Also, it is not to hang out with Earthlings, it's to explore the vastness of space. it's quite vast, so there is alot to explore and find out. There can be MANY possibilities as to why they could end up here visiting. Maybe they just wanna travel, maybe relocation, maybe seek something they need to survive on their planet that might be on a different planet, the list goes on and on and on.
Well, since you think aliens are probably visiting us, can you tell me why they're not coming into contact with us, or what energy source they're using to fuel their aircrafts, or how they've made their aircraft strong enough to resist tearing apart when going at lightspeed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LucidFlanders
How do you know there isn't? and don't say because we have not found any. We have not found any IQless aliens and you think that is more possible then any IQ aliens which is quite baffling, you really should just say there is no aliens.
I've never said there isn't, I just said I highly doubt there is. There's a difference in doubting and knowing LucidFlanders. We've not found any aliens at all yet, so as far as I'm concerned there are none. I do say there's no aliens (one's traveling from galaxy to galaxy). Maybe there's life out there somewhere, but they're not coming to Earth, or if they are no one has seen one, and they must be super sneaky.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LucidFlanders
Dumb aliens? aslong as they can think and be aware they can't possible be dumb. Why can't you guys just see that things are possible and not hide behind your science? Look how big the universe is...LOOK HOW BIG!!!! you can't possible sit there on your seats saying with a straight face that we are the only intelligent life in the universe. That is 1 hell of an ego trip.
Once again, I'm not sitting here saying we're the only intelligent life in the entire universe, so please stop ignoring over half of what I say. As far as we know so far we are the only intelligent life form out here, there's a possibility that there is another, but there's no reason to believe there's an entire race of creatures out there with an IQ of 999,999,999,999... or something similar.
Again I ask you, if there's a group of aliens out there that's so super advanced and thousands, maybe millions, or billions of years more advanced that us, why aren't they coming into contact with us? I mean it looks like to me if something is able to create a ship that can travel at the speed of light, or somehow learned how to create two black holes from their galaxy and one in ours and combine the two to make a wormhole for travel it seems to me they'd be advanced enough to contact us.
I see no reason in believing there's some Einstein aliens out there, maybe there's some sort of life, but I don't believe there's any life out there way more advanced than us.
02-13-2009, 04:14 AM
LucidFlanders
W...O...W... no need to reply, you're already pimped human life waaay up.:roll: You're so closed minded there is no point trying to disect what you said.
02-13-2009, 09:08 AM
nitsuJ
Of course I'm close minded. If something is so intelligent like you say, they should be contacting us (Wouldn't you?). I see no reason in believing in some super advanced life form out there. There's a good chance there's life out there, but I'm doubtful that it's super intelligent. It may be more intelligent than we are, but I doubt they're thousands, millions, or billions more technologically advanced than us.
If that's putting the human race on a pedestal, then so be it.
02-13-2009, 11:12 AM
dajo
wtf?
You are argueing like you know everything - and you haven't even watched or reviewed any of the evidence and have actually no idea, what anybody who did, is talking about.
This ist just pointless.
lol
02-13-2009, 11:29 AM
nitsuJ
So you're telling me those videos show evidence that aliens are real..?
Or are they trying to prove that UFOs are real?
If it's the latter, I don't care. I already know UFOs are real.
I've never seen any evidence for aliens though.
02-13-2009, 02:35 PM
ThreeLetterSyndrom
UFO stands for Unidentified Flying Object.
Might just as well be a new type of aeroplane. :\
02-14-2009, 02:13 AM
LucidFlanders
Quote:
Originally Posted by dajo
wtf?
You are argueing like you know everything - and you haven't even watched or reviewed any of the evidence and have actually no idea, what anybody who did, is talking about.
