Racial inequality in comedy?

[Bearsy]

I was watching Martin Lawrence's Runteldat and he has a short bit about how he hates being stereotyped and discriminated against as a young black male. Fair enough, I know it sucks. But immediately following his little rant, he segued into a rather long bit that he spends racially stereotyping all sorts of people, focusing on mainly Arab nations and Arab Americans. He brought out the big guns too. Offensive caricatures of Arabs, complete with really bad accents and talking about smelling bad and cab driving. He does a joke about when he gets on a plane and sees an Arab man get on he freaks out and yells something along the lines of "Don't fuck with this plane or I'll fuck with you" and that he doesn't think they should be allowed to wear their "towel" on their heads in public. I'm not racist in the least, but unfortunately I was raised by two racist(not overtly "I hate N***ers!", but the kind that were always extra wary around non-white folks) parents. Because of the way my parents speak about people I'm kind of hyper-aware of so called "reverse racism" or the "unfair way white people get stepped all over by minorities" that my parents used to point out all the time. I realize it's all jokes... but there's some truth behind most, if not all stand up bits. Am I being over sensitive or does anyone else agree that the double standards are kind of bullshit? And I don't just mean black people, any ethnic group except for white people are allowed to take potshots at other races without even a second thought. But a white dude breaks out racial jokes and he gets more or less labeled racist.

[Bearsy]

Oh and before people get their panties in a bunch... this thread is in regards to ALL ethnicities that get away with (sometimes very hateful)racial humor just because of their skin tone or the place that they have relatives from. Not just black folks. I only used Martin Lawrence as an example because he's a recognizable name and the one that sparked this thread.

[Black_Eagle]

Double standards are bullshit. If what you are saying about Martin Lawrence is true, then I'd have to call him a racist bigot. But I would like to see the comedy bit in context before passing judgement.

[Bearsy]

From a review... His big routine about the "coming together" of blacks and whites in the aftermath of Sept. 11 turns into a viciously racist tirade against Arabs and anyone who might be mistaken for an Arab. Presumably, it's supposed to be funny when he talks about accidentally beating up an Indian ("I wanna see a dot on your head or something!"). But I found it more chilling than amusing. I'll try and find/make a clip and upload it to YouTube Edit: I also have to say, I have no problem with race comedy. Chappelle, Pryor, Bruce(Lenny, not Bruce Bruce), Carlin and others all did it with style, substance and humor. If it's done right, race humor can be great. Richard Pryor used it to bridge the gap between white and black people. Martin Lawrence and others like him seem to just want to destroy the bridges that gap other racial divides before they're even built.

[grasshoppa]

Yeah double standards are retarded. On sherdog there was a lot of controversy over a fighter that had "Brown Pride" tattooed on his chest. Many people said he was a racist via "a white person couldn't do that and get away with it" Stupid...

[Alric]

He really isn't anyone of any real importance. So yea, he can pretty much say whatever he wants. So what if he is a racist? People are allowed to be racist. And for people labeling you a racist. You got to stand up for yourself. Don't ever let a person push you around, by making you feel guilty, by saying your a racist. Don't let people step all over you, and let them get away with it.

[Malac Reborn]

Difference: Whites had slaves. Not something that will disappear quickly like Paris Hilton breaking a shoe heel.. That's how I see it anyways.

[Alric]

White having slaves has nothing to do with it. For a number of reasons. The first being, not all whites had slave. Saying all whites are guilty is stereotyping and in itself racist. What you should be saying is that some rich white guys had slaves. So thats a lame excuse. Secondly if you go to other countries blacks had black slaves. In fact a lot of the slaves were sold to the white men by black slavers. Whats up with that? Third Not all blacks living in this country had any relatives who were slaves. Fourth, a lot of white people came from other countries that didn't have slaves either. Fifth there were white slaves in other countries. And lastly, none of the black people living today were slaves back then. So that really isn't any excuse for being a bigot and a racist.

[Jeff777]

White having slaves has nothing to do with it. For a number of reasons. The first being, not all whites had slave. Saying all whites are guilty is stereotyping and in itself racist. What you should be saying is that some rich white guys had slaves. So thats a lame excuse. Secondly if you go to other countries blacks had black slaves. In fact a lot of the slaves were sold to the white men by black slavers. Whats up with that? Third Not all blacks living in this country had any relatives who were slaves. Fourth, a lot of white people came from other countries that didn't have slaves either. Fifth there were white slaves in other countries. And lastly, none of the black people living today were slaves back then. So that really isn't any excuse for being a bigot and a racist. Oh lawd.

[tkdyo]

Jeff...even you cant argue with some of those points unless you were supporting him in a round about way

[Seismonaut]

Comedy about race is the best. I love hearing about how black people are different from white people and vice versa to no end.

[Universal Mind]

White having slaves has nothing to do with it. For a number of reasons. The first being, not all whites had slave. Saying all whites are guilty is stereotyping and in itself racist. What you should be saying is that some rich white guys had slaves. So thats a lame excuse. Secondly if you go to other countries blacks had black slaves. In fact a lot of the slaves were sold to the white men by black slavers. Whats up with that? Third Not all blacks living in this country had any relatives who were slaves. Fourth, a lot of white people came from other countries that didn't have slaves either. Fifth there were white slaves in other countries. And lastly, none of the black people living today were slaves back then. So that really isn't any excuse for being a bigot and a racist. Yep. I totally agree with you on that. A small minority of white people owned slaves when it went on here, and most of the white people here now are the descendants of immigrants who came here after slavery ended. Plus, since when is it fair to judge people by what their distant relatives did any way? There is not a person in the U.S. now who would not see it as a severe injustice if they were held responsible for what their father did. If I got so much as a traffic ticket because my dad was speeding, I would be bitching so loud in court I would be arrested, and he is only one generation back. People can only logically be judged morally on an individual basis. Judging a person morally based on race is racism, period.

[Arutad]

It may seem unfair but it's normal. When a black man starts to degrade white men, it's usually done out of anger for being treated as inferior, and so it's somewhat justified. When a white man starts to degrade black men, it's done out of pure arrogance. Sure enough, society treats the first kind of reason better. And before you say that black men degrade white men out of arrogance too, I disagree with it beforehand. Sure I don't know any black people, but I think that growing up in a white-dominated society will inevitably instill an inferiority complex in black people. Mass-media is white-dominated, and everybody loves movies. So black guys have been inevitably evaluating themselves through the white guys' eyes. They can't help but feel inferior, even if it's masked by fake arrogance. Imho.

[Seismonaut]

It may seem unfair but it's normal. When a black man starts to degrade white men, it's usually done out of anger for being treated as inferior, and so it's somewhat justified. When a white man starts to degrade black men, it's done out of pure arrogance. Sure enough, society treats the first kind of reason better. Can you really justify sterotyping and discriminating against a whole race of people because of bad expereinces with a select few from that race? And before you say that black men degrade white men out of arrogance too, I disagree with it beforehand. Sure I don't know any black people, but I think that growing up in a white-dominated society will inevitably instill an inferiority complex in black people. Mass-media is white-dominated, and everybody loves movies. So black guys have been inevitably evaluating themselves through the white guys' eyes. They can't help but feel inferior, even if it's masked by fake arrogance. Imho. I think this may be correct but i wouldn't know myself. I have long assumed the same thing. I have noticed non-whites tend to feel much more comfortable around others of their race or aother non-whites than they do around white people. I know this because i can pass for non-white and i have gotten that vibe from non-white people and heard things that make it seem that way.

[Alric]

Its not justified at all. Degrading someone who had nothing to do with making you inferior is wrong. Besides saying mass media is white dominated is silly. The mass media is it own thing. Its a bunch of warped bullshit to start with. No one agrees with mass media. Its not a representation of anyone at all. It tries to change public opinion based on is own goals.

[DrunkenArse]

White having slaves has nothing to do with it. For a number of reasons. Let's take them one at a time. The first being, not all whites had slave. Saying all whites are guilty is stereotyping and in itself racist. What you should be saying is that some rich white guys had slaves. So thats a lame excuse. By itself, yes. Secondly if you go to other countries blacks had black slaves. In fact a lot of the slaves were sold to the white men by black slavers. Slavery in the hunter-gatherer cultures that practiced it was radically different from the 'industrial' slavery practiced by the whiteman. It is true that most slaves were captured by other africans. Third Not all blacks living in this country had any relatives who were slaves. That's true, but they did come into a post-slavery culture. I explain the consequences of this below. Fourth, a lot of white people came from other countries that didn't have slaves either. Thats true and again, they come into a post-slavery culture. Fifth there were white slaves in other countries. Are you talking about antiquity or indentured servants that ended up that way largely because of their actions, not their race, and were able to free themselves after a period of time And lastly, none of the black people living today were slaves back then. True. They are living in a post-slavery culture. What this means is that until a few generations ago, black people systemically got worse education, worse opportunities for income and worse protection of their civil liberties than whites. This stuff percolates down through the generations. When you take race out of the picture, children of wealthy parents live a better life, get a better education and are in a better position to raise their own children. If you were to take a group of people of any race, segregate them from the economically dominant race and leave them in poverty then they would stay that way for multiple generations. Slavery ended about a century and a half ago, segregation ended about half a century ago. That's not enough time for stuff to sort itself out. There have of course been many black luminaries: some people are just gonna do their thing and not let their circumstances hold them back. That being said, the average black person in this country is still feeling the consequences of slavery. Less so than their parents and hopefully more than their children. So whites having had slaves, and more to the point, the culture that that created, has a lot to do with it. On the whole though, I've always thought that martin lawrance was an idiot and I'm not surprised that he's a biggot.

[DrunkenArse]

Comedy about race is the best. I love hearing about how black people are different from white people and vice versa to no end. When it's not done in a mean spirited way, I agree. It's good. It helps to make us all comfortable with each other. The Boondocks is hands down my favorite tv show ever. I especially love the lemonade stand and church of ruckus episodes. The christmas special from the first season is the only christmas special that i have ever really liked. That includes the simpons and stuff too.

[Seismonaut]

When it's not done in a mean spirited way, I agree. It's good. It helps to make us all comfortable with each other. The Boondocks is hands down my favorite tv show ever. I especially love the lemonade stand and church of ruckus episodes. The christmas special from the first season is the only christmas special that i have ever really liked. That includes the simpons and stuff too. I'm with ya on the boondocks. And yes, i prefer it when it is not done in a hateful way aswell.

[Arutad]

Can you really justify sterotyping and discriminating against a whole race of because of bad expereinces with a select few from that race? Ideally it shouldn't be happening. But we all use stereotyping while thinking, that's how evaluation works. All I'm saying is that black guys have better reason for their stereotypes, and whites only have pure arrogance. Although both dislike each other, black guys have a foundation that's better than "Beauty is what I make of it, and your skin tone is ugly". I have noticed non-whites tend to feel much more comfortable around others of their race or aother non-whites than they do around white people. I know this because i can pass for non-white and i have gotten that vibe from non-white people and heard things that make it seem that way. Yeah I wouldn't want to be somewhere among people who consider me inferior, too

[Seismonaut]

Ideally it shouldn't be happening. But we all use stereotyping while thinking, that's how evaluation works. All I'm saying is that black guys have better reason for their stereotypes, and whites only have pure arrogance. Although both dislike each other, black guys have a foundation that's better than "Beauty is what I make of it, and your skin tone is ugly". That is most certainly true , and i can understand why, but racial discrimination is a vice no matter the circumstance. However, i do know that black people do go through alot, and i can't appreciate enough the tough time they go through in an enviornment where they are the mionority. Yeah I wouldn't want to be somewhere among people who consider me inferior, too True. I can certainly see their side of the coin.

[tkdyo]

All I'm saying is that black guys have better reason for their stereotypes, and whites only have pure arrogance. Although both dislike each other, black guys have a foundation that's better than "Beauty is what I make of it, and your skin tone is ugly". that is such a bunch of BS. you know usually I dont get poed on this forum, but this statement is so outlandish I have to speak up. How many popular white comedians do you know that make race jokes out of arrogance, especially skin tone? All the ones I have seen always make fun of the exact same things black comedians do. mannerisms, speech, cultural differences, ect. Do explain more how its arrogance from a white person and not just comedy as it is from another race comedian.

[Oneironaut Zero]

Besides saying mass media is white dominated is silly. The mass media is it own thing. Its a bunch of warped bullshit to start with. No one agrees with mass media. Its not a representation of anyone at all. I disagree with this. Mass media is white dominated, and it's also a very powerful tool for propaganda and spin. The influence of the media is undeniable. Sure, a minority of Americans may not be swayed or have their opinions too easily molded by what they see on the news, or perceive through their outlets of entertainment and 'information,' but society proves, constantly, that a very large percentage of Americans are just that malleable. As far as the main topic, I don't really like racial humor at all. To me, it's like someone resorting to crudeness because they really have no universal perspective, and can't deliver material that doesn't require an audience with some degree of prejudice. More than anything else, it makes me wonder about that person's own prejudices, and how focusing that much on exploiting our differences - as if the other side is somehow inferior for being the way that 'they' are - just makes me lose some amount of respect for the speaker. I understand that sometimes it's done lightheartedly, and with no real offense meant - much like gender humor - but it usually gets little more than a chuckle out of me, depending on the joke.

[Arutad]

that is such a bunch of BS. you know usually I dont get poed on this forum, but this statement is so outlandish I have to speak up. How many popular white comedians do you know that make race jokes out of arrogance, especially skin tone? All the ones I have seen always make fun of the exact same things black comedians do. mannerisms, speech, cultural differences, ect. Do explain more how its arrogance from a white person and not just comedy as it is from another race comedian. What's the difference between a white man and a black man? Skin tone. That's what sets them apart initially, that's the mark by which people were socially separated in past. The existence of different mannerisms and all that is a direct consequence of having been socially separated, otherwise cultures would've gotten merged. And jokes that laugh at stereotypes are always offensive to those who get laughed at. You may imagine that you laugh at something innocent, but try to make such a joke in the face of whom you're laughing at I don't think they'd ever buy your words "But wait, I'm not laughing at you, it's only about mannerisms, speech, cultural differences". Because you do laugh at a group they belong to, and in an offensive way.

[Arutad]

Besides saying mass media is white dominated is silly. The mass media is it own thing. Its a bunch of warped bullshit to start with. No one agrees with mass media. Oh really? I bet that you have so many mass media induced stereotypes that you can't even see the forest for the trees now. It's impossible to disagree with the mass media most of the time, it serves a mentoring function of socially educating us. Mass media isn't limited to politics and such. It tells you what you need to get in life, what relationships with people you must have to like yourself, it teaches you how to talk and behave around others, how to dress at a certain age, how to think about life, etc. Messages like "these guys are inferior because..." get hardly noticed, just like everything else. After all nobody is screaming in your ear about all these things, they're subtly shown, too "obvious" to ever need an outright mention. It tries to change public opinion based on is own goals. I disagree with this conspiracy theory. Mass media doesn't try to do it on purpose most of the time, it happens as a side-effect of "capturing" our life. People who all think in a uniform way make movies, write books, create computer games, and they all inevitably put their thinking in their works. Then you consume their works, believing that what you watch or read is how life actually is and how real people should interact. Of course as mass media is white dominated, you're going to see white man values and internalize them. If you don't happen to be white, all the worse for you, then you're going to internalize an attitude of being inferior.

[Alric]

If you want to believe the average American does nothing but go around fucking and shooting people. Most people are fairly good at telling what is true and what is just a bullshit line from tv. Sure, some people are totally clueless and just follow it along, but its not an accurate portrayal of anything. Like I said before though, you got to stand up for yourself. Tv puts everyone down, you can't buy into that stuff. Woman are inferior are only sex objects. You see that all the time. Yet at the same time men are inferior to woman. How many shows do you see, where there is a married couple and the guy is always totally whipped and follows his wife around on everything. Seriously like 90% of the shows with married couples are like that. Blacks are all thugs, Italian people are in the mob. Its just the same stupid sterotypes. In fact, you could probably say that most sterotypes come directly from the mass media. Anyway, this all avoids the real reason why blacks have trouble, and it has nothing to do with being black. It has far more to do with your economic class. If a black person is having a hard time, its probably far more likely because he is poor than because of him being black and people mistreating him for it. This applies to everyone though. All poor people no matter what race they are, get screwed over.