Do people really think like this?

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Originally Posted by ninja9578

I have a close friend who's transgender (technically male,) she goes into the women's room, wears women's clothes, gets treated as a woman. I don't see the problem with it.

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If the women in those bathrooms knew the truth, I bet they would have a problem with it.

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Originally Posted by ninja9578

There is a difference between a transgender person and some old pervert in a dress. Pretending to be transgender to get a job will get someone thrown in jail.

I have a close friend who's transgender (technically male,) she goes into the women's room, wears women's clothes, gets treated as a woman. I don't see the problem with it.

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In this case, exactly what does "transgender" encompass?

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Originally Posted by Black_Eagle

In this case, exactly what does "transgender" encompass?

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To my understanding, it generally mean people who feel like they were born the wrong sex, that they feel like the opposite sex of what their body is. Why don't you just read about it on wikipedia? :p

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Originally Posted by khh

To my understanding, it generally mean people who feel like they were born the wrong sex, that they feel like the opposite sex of what their body is. Why don't you just read about it on wikipedia? :p

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Well you see, there is a difference between people who feel like they are the opposite gender and people who actually go through the process to be the opposite gender. I thought ninja might be referring to a person who is transsexual.

Although there would be a problem with someone who is obviously a male going into the wrong restroom, most of the time you will never know that it is a trans person. This would also not effect you unless you are actually dressing up like a girl and going out as one. It's not like you can check someone's sex before they enter a restroom anyway.

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Originally Posted by Black_Eagle

In this case, exactly what does "transgender" encompass?

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The wrong body. For transgender people, something goes haywire in the womb during development, the brain stays female, but the body develops as male. There is a doctor in... Norway I think... who does sex changes for free, so long as when they die, they donate their bodies to science. Almost all of the male ones has female brains.

Allowing transgender persons to enter restrooms which are assigned to the opposite biological gender completely defeats the purpose of having separate restrooms in the first place. The purpose being that both males and females are comfortable excreting waste and performing other gender-specific actions around members of the same sex. Who gets to decide whether or not a person is really transgender and not some sick fuck who likes to dress up in drag and masturbate in public to the sounds of females performing required bodily functions?

If we're talking transsexuals, then the picture changes a bit. It's safe to assume the person really is the gender they state they are.

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Originally Posted by Demon Parasite

Although there would be a problem with someone who is obviously a male going into the wrong restroom, most of the time you will never know that it is a trans person. This would also not effect you unless you are actually dressing up like a girl and going out as one. It's not like you can check someone's sex before they enter a restroom anyway.

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Is ignorance really bliss?

I'm just saying, how will you know for positive that it's a transgendered person, if they're going out in woman's clothes. It would be quite rude to call out a man-ish biological woman and say she's a man.

Do some people with a penis and balls and no boobs really think they are female? That should be the question.

The haters are wrong for hating. We should be confused and disgusted, that's about it. Oh, and also feel sorry for them.

Yes, some people who are born as a male are happier being a female, it's not disgusting or absurd. There are a few people like this on DV.

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Originally Posted by Demon Parasite

Yes, some people who are born as a male are happier being a female, it's not disgusting or absurd. There are a few people like this on DV.

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happier being a female? How do they know? They are not a female. They WISH they were. They use imagination like a 5 year old would. They take it too far with surgeries and such. It is completely outrageous.

if you're psysically born a woman with a penis, that's different. that's a pshsical mess up... but if you're born physically correct, but think you're the other gender, then that's a clear brain disfuntion. I'm sure with enough time i'll be proven correct by science.

No one is "wrong" for hating, as long as there's good reason for it.
Unlimited tolerance for everything that's being preached nowadays is ridiculous.
People are afraid to form factions against those they despise, afraid to create enemies and stand up for their ideals.

It takes little to be confused and disgusted.
But it takes a spine to actually display your position.
Be it through words or through oppression.

In other words, if you want to be different, fight for it.

Don't expect everyone to accept you for who you are.
Hell, normal people have to prove themselves to deserve respect.
Abominations in turn need all the more power to have a place in the world.

Power is everything. World peace is nothing, and never will be.

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Originally Posted by Michael

happier being a female? How do they know? They are not a female. They WISH they were. They use imagination like a 5 year old would. They take it too far with surgeries and such. It is completely outrageous.

if you're psysically born a woman with a penis, that's different. that's a pshsical mess up... but if you're born physically correct, but think you're the other gender, then that's a clear brain disfuntion. I'm sure with enough time i'll be proven correct by science.

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I don't think there's anything wrong with wishing you were the opposite gender. You make it seem like this is some kind of mental illness that needs to be cured. And being female isn't having having a vagina, it's about being feminine. It's about going outside and everyone thinking your a female, and pretty much living your life as a girl, regardless of what's in between your legs. Not everyone gets surgery, in fact, most transgendered people don't get any surgeries at all because it's far too expensive.

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Originally Posted by Demon Parasite

And being female isn't having having a vagina, it's about being feminine. It's about going outside and everyone thinking your a female, and pretty much living your life as a girl, regardless of what's in between your legs.

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Actually, the most accepted definition of female is : "a person bearing two X chromosomes in the cell nuclei and normally having a vagina, a uterus and ovaries, and developing at puberty a relatively rounded body and enlarged breasts, and retaining a beardless face; a girl or woman."

But that is beside the point. You can still act feminine, of course. When Michael referred to the word 'female', he meant the scientific and highly accepted definition.

It is something like this, "How many legs does a dog have if you call the tail a leg?" "Four. Calling a tail a leg doesn't make it a leg."

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Originally Posted by Exhalent

Actually, the most accepted definition of female is : "a person bearing two X chromosomes in the cell nuclei and normally having a vagina, a uterus and ovaries, and developing at puberty a relatively rounded body and enlarged breasts, and retaining a beardless face; a girl or woman."

But that is beside the point. You can still act feminine, of course. When Michael referred to the word 'female', he meant the scientific and highly accepted definition.

It is something like this, "How many legs does a dog have if you call the tail a leg?" "Four. Calling a tail a leg doesn't make it a leg."

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By "female" I am talking about the gender role, not sex assignment.

My daughter’s volunteer basketball coach was transgendered. She wore female clothing and makeup. Lylia definitely has male chromosomes because you can see her five o’clock shadow. She has a very nice daughter who maybe is her bio child...don’t know...don’t care... Because she is a very loving parent and a genuinely kind person, nobody gave a crap if she was in the multi-stalled ladies’ room. None of the moms would have wanted her to go in the men’s room....that would be wrong. Since Lylia lives in a small community, people “judge” her on her kindness, volunteer work, parenting skills, money, car she drives, and her profession.....just like they “judge” non-transgendered people.

When you are comfortable with your own gender, there is nothing threatening about transgendered people.

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Originally Posted by Liz

When you are comfortable with your own gender, there is nothing threatening about transgendered people.

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And you would know this because you know exactly how everyone thinks and know the precise reasons for why people hate such abominations?

Don't mean to sound overly harsh.
Just saying that you can under no circumstances make assumptions about others' reasoning for anything.
Which is why I find it silly when people say things like the above quote or, "You hate it because you are afraid of it".

Assumptions, assumptions, assumptions. Hatred =/= fear. It's quite the opposite.

Just because a vast majority of people can't explain their disgust of such things and likely don't even have a viable reason for it, does not mean everyone is like that. Some people actually do things for perfectly viable reasons. It's just that no one owes anyone any explanations on the matter, especially since reasons for various personal stances are just that...personal.

Luckily, we have democracy, so as long as majority votes against, no one has to explain any reasoning.

I honestly can't tell why the bathroom thing is such an issue. There are stalls. If a woman was going in to the women's bathroom and looking over the stalls, she'd get arrested (or screamed at/escorted out by security, etc.) just the same as if a man in woman's clothing was doing it. Otherwise, who really cares? I personally am not even really sure why our society needs gender specific bathrooms, and individual stalls anyway.

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Originally Posted by Xaqaria

I honestly can't tell why the bathroom thing is such an issue. There are stalls. If a woman was going in to the women's bathroom and looking over the stalls, she'd get arrested (or screamed at/escorted out by security, etc.) just the same as if a man in woman's clothing was doing it. Otherwise, who really cares? I personally am not even really sure why our society needs gender specific bathrooms, and individual stalls anyway.

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Because of crazy old men that love little girls?

Though they like the boys as well..

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Originally Posted by Merlock

And you would know this because you know exactly how everyone thinks and know the precise reasons for why people hate such abominations?

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I know this because I am a licensed mental health clinician with decades of practice.
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Abomination = a vile, shameful act.

Shameful acts =HATEFUL WORDS that injure others and have no positive purpose. Therefore an abomination=hateful words.

What is to hate about someone feeling like that should have been born a different gender? What is to hate about someone feeling like they want to dress in a different gender’s clothing? What is so scary about this? Nothing.
This is an irrational fear.

If you just HAVE to hate things, use this emotion constructively. Please seek out dangerous and scary things to hate.

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Originally Posted by Liz

I know this because I am a licensed mental health clinician with decades of practice.
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Abomination = a vile, shameful act.

Shameful acts =HATEFUL WORDS that injure others and have no positive purpose. Therefore an abomination=hateful words.

What is to hate about someone feeling like that should have been born a different gender? What is to hate about someone feeling like they want to dress in a different gender’s clothing? What is so scary about this? Nothing.
This is an irrational fear.

If you just HAVE to hate things, use this emotion constructively. Please seek out dangerous and scary things to hate.

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I'm sorry, but that's utter hippie/Buddhist talk.
I'm hurting people, "boo-hoo".
Conflict is perfectly sensible as long as there is good reason for it.

Also, you still seem to be under the impression that "hate" and "fear" are synonyms.

Furthermore, questions like "what is there to hate about <whatever>?" will not be answered because, like I already said, it's personal. No one owes you explanations of their inner selves, their desires and fears, likes and dislikes, experiences and reasons for acting. You can either fight someone if you oppose their stance, join them if you support it or just ignore them if you don't care. Trying to "reason" against opposing idealism is useless.

As for being "licensed", being a doctor or any such...that means nothing.
It is impossible to know anything about anyone's true inner self.
All psychology and various sciences relating to behaviour are full of nothing but assumptions.

You assume someone does something for an assumed reason.
You know nothing for a fact, as it isn't yourself you are trying to analyse.
Another's mind cannot be viewed like a computer record or phenomenon of nature.

Someone can become your friend and make you 100% certain for dozens of years that they are your closest most trusted partner or vice-versa, you can assume an enemy is 100% wrong for whatever reasons...only for said friend/enemy to one day turn around and completely change, saying it was all an act.

But aye, now I'm just ranting.
My point was: don't assume to know why someone does something.
Take their actions at face value.

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Originally Posted by Merlock

Conflict is perfectly sensible as long as there is good reason for it.

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Please tell us what IS the "good reason" to hate transgendered people.
You keep telling us that you don't want to reveal this "good reason" so I am left to assume that:

A. you hate almost everything including yourself
B. you are not comfortable with aspects of your own gender
C. you have bought into a hate-promoting, religious ideology which is practiced in defiance of God saying, "Love one another."

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Originally Posted by Liz

Please tell us what IS the "good reason" to hate transgendered people.

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You can assume all you want, but that won't make you right, and won't make me explain anything.
If you dislike what I stand for, I'm your enemy, it's that simple.
No explanations needed. Face value. Etc.

The modern world is drowning in a sea of apathy and lack of ideals and principles.
Striving for the great and "wonderful" World Peace!
World peace would be the most terrifying thing to ever happen to this world.

Five points to anyone who gets the reference:

http://www.thevine.com.au/resources/...quilibrium.jpg

And the funny thing is, all this peace-talking arguing is still the same as conflict: trying to inflict your will upon others. Which is natural, sensible and strong. Except arguments against idealism aren't strength but uselessness. You have to fight for what you want, not sit there demanding unlimited tolerance or "peace".

You're only thinking in extremes here. It is possible to allow people to have more rights without turning it into ulimited tolerance and world peace.