Thread: Anarchy

Too many new age morons on this forum, it's a shame because lucid dreaming is a very real practice.

This threat is a testament to the inability for the majority of the forum's members to employ rationale. It also pisses me off when all discussions descend in to spiritualist delusions. Terrance McKenna is a stoned retard, who appeals to those who see escapism as a full time hobby. The fact that he was mentioned highlights the unfortunate appeal of this forum to the deluded.

No wonder lucid dreaming is a subject seldom touched on by science, despite its enticing potential. Hopefully, it will one day be reclaimed by the mentally stable.

Oh and, so that this post is on-topic, Anarchism is utterly futile. The arguments you have posed against me have been weak and anecdotal. It is most unfortunate that, despite losing the argument, you won't even consider repositioning your political ideas.

Your an idiot. There was no descent into spiritualist delusions. The original post displayed not only discontent with modern day western political and economic systems but with culture and civilization as well. I merely pointed out that he might find Terence Mckenna's ideas on culture interesting.

You seem to find pleasure in insulting all those who disagree with exactly what you believe. You are completely objective in your opinions and that in itself is inherently dangerous. However, smart you might be you are close minded and therefore your mind is relatively useless as it follows that it has nothing new to learn, and no new ideas to entertain. So do us all a favour and fuck off.

Originally Posted by drew

Oh and, so that this post is on-topic, Anarchism is utterly futile. The arguments you have posed against me have been weak and anecdotal. It is most unfortunate that, despite losing the argument, you won't even consider repositioning your political ideas.

I'm still waiting for some ground-breaking argument from your corner...You can't claim victory without competing.

Shitty idea. Would make life more of a constant power struggle than it already is. NEXT.

Originally Posted by mini0991

Shitty idea. Would make life more of a constant power struggle than it already is. NEXT.

What a revelation. My life has changed.

Originally Posted by BLUELINE976

...And people call me crazy

I grow tired of your endless stream of cynical comments.
Get that stick out of your ass and smoke a seriously fat joint.
Funny how you mock cynicism in your signature, yet you are the King of Cynicism.

Stop sidetracking topics with your opinion: No one's eager to hear it.
This topic is about rewriting communism(in case you hadn't noticed).
I haven't seen an intelligent ontopic post made by you. Not in this topic. Not in any topic.

If you're going to actually post anything concerning the subject of this discussion we'd be more than happy to hear it, just save us your arrogant, senseless joke of an opinion.
Dreamviews is getting cluttered up with and taken over by a bunch of arrogant wiseasses. It isn't the first time.

I often wondered what an actual DreamViews meeting would be like and figured I would probably want to vomit all over 3/4th of it's members.

Originally Posted by SKA

I grow tired of your endless stream of cynical comments.
Get that stick out of your ass and smoke a seriously fat joint.
Funny how you mock cynicism in your signature, yet you are the King of Cynicism.

It's not really a mocking quote. I quite enjoy cynicism. "King of Cynicism" isn't really an insult.

Also, I'll pass on the joint.

Edit - And my comment was tongue-in-cheek. Wasn't meant to cause offense.

Stop sidetracking topics with your opinion: No one's eager to hear it.
This topic is about rewriting communism(in case you hadn't noticed).
I haven't seen an intelligent ontopic post made by you. Not in this topic. Not in any topic.

If you're going to actually post anything concerning the subject of this discussion we'd be more than happy to hear it, just save us your arrogant, senseless joke of an opinion.

Says the person that decided to bring attention to my statement instead of leaving it alone.

Edit - Also, this topic is about Anarchy, not re-writing communism .

sorry mixed 2 topics up.
Well your cynicism isn't actively disucussing Anarchy either.
It is sabotaging and side tracking this discussion.

So rather than rediculing people's views about Anarchy... What are your views on Anarchy?
Get your tongue out of your cheek and participate in this discussion. Otherwise start a topic about cynicism where your cynicism would be ontopic and leave this one alone.

People like Drew and you turn topics into ego struggles. Saying things like "Terrence McKenna is a stoned moron" is a totally ignorant thing to say. Here's a man with extraordinairy intelligence and you slander and redicule him. Just because he praises and uses psychedelics you render his entire worldview as meaningless stoned gibberish. You hold on to this web of lies that you've been told instead.

Speaking of Anarchy this world needs a worldwide psychedelic experience. So all your fucking huuuuge egos can be destroyed and the truth of humanity is revealed to you.

Originally Posted by SKA

sorry mixed 2 topics up.
Well your cynicism isn't actively disucussing Anarchy either.
It is sabotaging and side tracking this discussion.

You're the one that brought it up.

So rather than rediculing people's views about Anarchy... What are your views on Anarchy?
Get your tongue out of your cheek and participate in this discussion. Otherwise start a topic about cynicism where your cynicism would be ontopic and leave this one alone.

Again, you're the one that brought it up.

And I've clearly stated my views on anarchy. There are many types, however only one sort works, which is the kind that promotes freedom and liberty, voluntarism, and prosperity. All other sorts require some sort of central planning (antithesis of anarchy - would essentially be a government) or just ridiculous paradigm shifts like "we'll all work for the common good instead of being the self-interested beings that we are" that go against human nature.

People like Drew and you turn topics into ego struggles. Saying things like "Terrence McKenna is a stoned moron" is a totally ignorant thing to say. Here's a man with extraordinairy intelligence and you slander and redicule him. Just because he praises and uses psychedelics you render his entire worldview as meaningless stoned gibberish. You hold on to this web of lies that you've been told instead.

Speaking of Anarchy this world needs a worldwide psychedelic experience. So all your fucking huuuuge egos can be destroyed and the truth of humanity is revealed to you.

I said...absolutely nothing about "Terrence McKenna." I have no idea who that is.

Originally Posted by SKA

People like Drew and you turn topics into ego struggles. Saying things like "Terrence McKenna is a stoned moron" is a totally ignorant thing to say. Here's a man with extraordinairy intelligence and you slander and redicule him. Just because he praises and uses psychedelics you render his entire worldview as meaningless stoned gibberish. You hold on to this web of lies that you've been told instead.

After reading his "Stoned Ape theory" and "Novelty theory," I may have to agree with the original assertion.

Well clearly I was mentioning Drew(concerning the rediculing of McKenna)
Obviously it was Drew that rediculed McKenna.

And Caprisun, off course at one point the early prehistoric human beings would have ingested psychedelic plants and fungi. If you ever ingested any psychedelic vegetation it isn't hard to imagine how that could have indeed kickstarted the forming of values, philosophies, religious feelings and leading into the forming of cities and eventually civilisation as we know it.( I mean at one point we were fairly simple beings not unlike apes, bears, sheep..etc)

Back ontopic;
I do believe in a common good.
I believe every human being has a desire for
-individual freedom
-food/nourishment
-housing
-peace/safety

Let's say we've just founded an anarchist community,
how do we make sure that selfish desires don't spoil it without any kind of rules or enforcement thereof?

Originally Posted by SKA

Let's say we've just founded an anarchist community,
how do we make sure that selfish desires don't spoil it without any kind of rules or enforcement thereof?

First I would ask: what's wrong with selfish desires? Everyone acts in their own self interest.

Originally Posted by guerilla

I wonder if anyone has ever thought of this:

Build a robotic government, which is programmed by humans and they cannot lie cheat steal or do anything wrong because well we program them that way, then the robots can run a (SMALL) government

A government which pretty much is bound by the us constitution, so if a robot tried to disobey the constitution they would be deactivated and replaced with a logical robot.

A robot congress executive branch and robot supreme court and robot governors...etc...etc.

But they still all answer to the people ultimately, no electoral college, no federal reserve no cia no irs...no useless social programs.





?

I realize that this is just a reaction to a poorly run government, but it is this very mentality that lead to the government we have now. All you are proposing is that we pass off responsibility for our own lives to yet another set of governors. Essentially what you are describing is a modern day version of every government ever created by people to control themselves. "We'll elect people so they have to represent us and their will be laws so they can't do anything that we don't agree with". I assume your idea comes from the belief that robots can't be corrupted, but all you are doing is putting the power in the hands of those that program them.

Originally Posted by SKA

And Caprisun, off course at one point the early prehistoric human beings would have ingested psychedelic plants and fungi. If you ever ingested any psychedelic vegetation it isn't hard to imagine how that could have indeed kickstarted the forming of values, philosophies, religious feelings and leading into the forming of cities and eventually civilisation as we know it.( I mean at one point we were fairly simple beings not unlike apes, bears, sheep..etc)

We already have theories for that, they don't involve psychedelic plants.

Originally Posted by BLUELINE976

I'm still waiting for some ground-breaking argument from your corner...You can't claim victory without competing.

Of course you don't see your own defeat, ignorance is bliss. Anarchists are typically irrational and lofty anyway, they're not going to be objective and think 'hmm, my counter argument is utterly shite, I must be wrong'.

Originally Posted by imran_p

Your an idiot. There was no descent into spiritualist delusions. The original post displayed not only discontent with modern day western political and economic systems but with culture and civilization as well. I merely pointed out that he might find Terence Mckenna's ideas on culture interesting.

You seem to find pleasure in insulting all those who disagree with exactly what you believe. You are completely objective in your opinions and that in itself is inherently dangerous. However, smart you might be you are close minded and therefore your mind is relatively useless as it follows that it has nothing new to learn, and no new ideas to entertain. So do us all a favour and fuck off.

There are many, many other more insightful people to quote with regards to culture. Of all of them, you chose someone who is utterly deluded; his intelligence wasted on worthless pursuits.

I find pleasure in seeing people shift their frame of view from innately conspiratorial, irrational or simply deluded to one of objective thought and analytical rationale.A 'closed mind' is the atypical delusion that is an utter paradox. An open mind is one which realises that certain sources are far more credible, right off the bat.Noam Chomsky's arguments hold far more water than, say, David Icke. This isn'ta dogmatic appeal to authority, it's just that some people actually research their arguments, and then test them in debates, criticism and arguments.

So, the 'open minded' spiritualist is in fact entirely close minded. When they seek knowledge they do not go on PubMed or read a well researched theory, as this is to them 'close minded'. To these people, a closed mind belongs to anyone who disagrees with them. Real open minded people don't look to people like Terrance McKenna who 'revolutionise' and 'revitalise' reality with literal BS, and if they do, they soon realise that:

A) He quotes no sources for his work
B) What he says goes against actual research
C) He's making it up. Have you ever been stoned? Try LSD, you'll see that he's not so original after all.

The reality is that people in their natural state are emotionally driven. Most people go by their 'gut' and their 'feelings', leading to anything from Hitler's political power to massive losses in poker. But, we are all endowed with a phenomonal brain which, when used correctly, can easily shift its thought patterns from emotive to rational. From reactive to calculated. From indecisive to productive.

I will fuck off now.

Originally Posted by drew

Anarchists are typically irrational and lofty anyway, they're not going to be objective and think 'hmm, my counter argument is utterly shite, I must be wrong'.

What do you think is irrational about anarchists?

Originally Posted by SKA

sorry mixed 2 topics up.
Well your cynicism isn't actively disucussing Anarchy either.
It is sabotaging and side tracking this discussion.

So rather than rediculing people's views about Anarchy... What are your views on Anarchy?
Get your tongue out of your cheek and participate in this discussion. Otherwise start a topic about cynicism where your cynicism would be ontopic and leave this one alone.

People like Drew and you turn topics into ego struggles. Saying things like "Terrence McKenna is a stoned moron" is a totally ignorant thing to say. Here's a man with extraordinairy intelligence and you slander and redicule him. Just because he praises and uses psychedelics you render his entire worldview as meaningless stoned gibberish. You hold on to this web of lies that you've been told instead.

Speaking of Anarchy this world needs a worldwide psychedelic experience. So all your fucking huuuuge egos can be destroyed and the truth of humanity is revealed to you.

I think he's come up with everything he has to say about Anarchism, nothing.

He is a stoned moron, regardless of his intelligence. Whether or not he is extraordinary intelligence is debatable (I actually think he does), he's still useless.

People are ego. Your personality is aloft by strings which are as stable as your ego allows. Max Stirner was a prominent anarchist who wrote a book called 'The ego and its own', a very influential piece from a very intellectual person.

This myth that a human truth of collective altruism is going to be unveiled amidst a big flash of insight still hasn't gone away. But then again, neither have MJ documentaries. Figures.

Originally Posted by BLUELINE976

First I would ask: what's wrong with selfish desires? Everyone acts in their own self interest.

everything. Where is your moral consciousness? I don't see why I should explain it to you, but I'll try.

The Ego is what makes people feel more important, more worthy and more rightious than others. From this ego-istic perspective we do all the evil that we as humans do. We make war with "that" country because we are better than them(freedom against tyranny), we torture "those" people because they aren't as worthy as us(Guantanamo bay, Al Ghraib).
We corrpupt these people's leaders so we can steal their resources because they aren't as worthy/rightious as us.(Equador, Brazil, Iraq, Panama, Iran, Saudi Arabia, all countries of Africa..etc etc) We kill infidels and people of other religions, because they aren't as rightious as our own.(Crusades, Jihad) We irradicate/enslave that race, because it isn't as rightious/worthy as our own( Holocaust, Armenian Genocide, African Slavery )...etc etc etc.

It's when we fail to see the equality of other people's worthyness and desires to our own that we become dangerious, self-absorbed people that can justify genocides, war and thievery.
And the reason why Capitalist nations have so many genocides, wars and grandscale robberies on their track records is because Capitalism is built uppon a foundation of Egoism. The Capitalistic system arose from Ego centric minds. And Sovjet Communism really isn't any different, allthough it is portrayed as different. And because of our upbringing in this egocentric system we've all become pathologically ego centric; That is not to say that the Ego is our true nature. No it is a culturally imposed and indoctrinated condition that severely disconnects us from our true nature; consciousness or intuition or God as some call it.

The only true enemy of mankind is it's own Ego. Nothing good comes from it. Name any kind of sinfull behaviour and believe you me; it can be traced back to the Ego.
I'm no where near religious and I'm certainly not Catholic, however I really do igmire the Catholic theory of the malevolent Ego and it's 7 deadly sins: Check it out. Google it up. I very much agree with this view of the Ego.

Originally Posted by SKA

everything. Where is your moral consciousness? I don't see why I should explain it to you, but I'll try.

The Ego is what makes people feel more important, more worthy and more rightious than others. From this ego-istic perspective we do all the evil that we as humans do. We make war with "that" country because we are better than them(freedom against tyranny), we torture "those" people because they aren't as worthy as us(Guantanamo bay, Al Ghraib).
We corrpupt these people's leaders so we can steal their resources because they aren't as worthy/rightious as us.(Equador, Brazil, Iraq, Panama, Iran, Saudi Arabia..etc etc) We kill infidels and people of other religions, because they aren't as rightious as our own.(Crusades, Jihad) We irradicate/enslave that race, because it isn't as rightious/worthy as our own( Holocaust, Armenian Genocide, African Slavery )...etc etc etc.

It's when we fail to see the equality of other people's worthyness and desires to our own that we become dangerious, self-absorbed people that can justify genocides, war and thievery.
And the reason why Capitalist nations have so many genocides, wars and grandscale robberies on their track records is because Capitalism is built uppon a foundation of Egoism. The Capitalistic system arose from Ego centric minds. And Sovjet Communism really isn't any different, allthough it is portrayed as different.

The only true enemy of mankind is it's own Ego. Nothing good comes from it. Name any kind of sinfull behaviour and believe you me; it can be traced back to the Ego.
I'm no where near religious and I'm certainly not Catholic, however I really do igmire the Catholic theory of the malevolent Ego and it's 7 deadly sins: Check it out. Google it up. I very much agree with this view of the Ego.

Well I think you are incorrectly perceiving the problem. You seem to think evil stems from selfish desires and yet evil can be brought about with the best intentions in mind. Humanitarians who want world peace yet employ brutal methods to achieve it. Starving Germans to win WWI and WWII. Bombing Japanese cities to 'end the war more quickly', killing Phillipinos to bring 'civilization' to a 'backward people.'

TBH I just read that as a typical ideological hippy rant.

Damn my closed mind >.

Originally Posted by Laughing Man

Well I think you are incorrectly perceiving the problem. You seem to think evil stems from selfish desires and yet evil can be brought about with the best intentions in mind. Humanitarians who want world peace yet employ brutal methods to achieve it. Starving Germans to win WWI and WWII. Bombing Japanese cities to 'end the war more quickly', killing Phillipinos to bring 'civilization' to a 'backward people.'

Well evil done with good intentions also stems from the Ego.
Ego creates ignorance. A good example is the recent situation in Haiti.

Alot of American christians went there and abducted Haitian children "to give them a better life"
It stems from the self-absorbed, arrogant view that "we americans are better, let's pull those low Haitians up to our high standards."

Were they helping the children they were abducting? No they were ripping families appart, but their Egos made them feel like they were doing a noble thing. This is how deceptive the Ego is.
Off course they were only this "charitable" because they wanted to make sure they got to heaven and not to hell instead. Selish ignoble behaviour; simply trying to save their own sorry ass from the fires of hell.
Had they actually tried to be charitable from the honoust desire to help the Haitian people, they would have realised that ripping families appart wasn't helping these people at all.


Allthough the psychology of social behaviour is very related and in fact at the root of socio-political systems, this is slowly drifting further and further from the Topic at hand: Anarchy.
I think I'll make a special topic for the Discussion the Ego, so this Topic can continue to debate Anarchy.

Originally Posted by SKA

Well evil done with good intentions also stems from the Ego.
Ego creates ignorance. A good example is recent situation in Haiti.

Alot of American christians went there and abducted Haitian children "to give them a better life"
It stems from the self-absorbed, arrogant view that "we americans are better, let's pull those low Haitians up to our high standards."

Were they helping the children they were abducting? No they were ripping families appart, but their Egos made them feel like they were doing a noble thing. This is how deceptive the Ego is.

Please define the ego for me.

Originally Posted by SKA

Well evil done with good intentions also stems from the Ego.
Ego creates ignorance. A good example is the recent situation in Haiti.

Well all action stems from consciousness. It's purposeful behavior. And I don't understand how you can say consciousness creates ignorance.

Originally Posted by SKA

Alot of American christians went there and abducted Haitian children "to give them a better life"
It stems from the self-absorbed, arrogant view that "we americans are better, let's pull those low Haitians up to our high standards."

That is ridiculous. You think humanitarians went to a recently earthquake devastated country to exhibit American dominance? Willing to go to jail and defy law just to bring Haitians back to the US to rub their faces in our standard of living?

Originally Posted by SKA

Were they helping the children they were abducting? No they were ripping families appart, but their Egos made them feel like they were doing a noble thing.

You have no idea if the parents of these children were actual alive or didn't give consent to allow these individuals to take the children.

Originally Posted by SKA

This is how deceptive the Ego is.
Off course they were only this "charitable" because they wanted to make sure they got to heaven and not to hell instead. Selish ignoble behaviour; simply trying to save their own sorry ass from the fires of hell.

Well now you are changing your tune. Before you were saying they only did this to rub it in the faces of the Haitian people, how you are saying they only did for eternal salvation.

Originally Posted by SKA

Had they actually tried to be charitable from the honoust desire to help the Haitian people, they would have realised that ripping families appart wasn't helping these people at all.

Again you have no knowledge or have yet to produce such knowledge concern consent of the parents towards the children.

Originally Posted by SKA

Allthough the psychology of social behaviour is very related and in fact at the root of socio-political systems, this is slowly drifting further and further from the Topic at hand: Anarchy.
I think I'll make a special topic for the Discussion the Ego, so this Topic can continue to debate Anarchy.

I will gladly leave this topic because I have seen nothing more then quackery abound.