The problem I see with Affirmative Action is that if you have two jobs open in a workplace, and four applicants, the so-called minority will probably get that job simply because they're the minority either racially, financially, or what have you. |
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Positive Discrimination in my view is the worst kind of discrimination, I mean discrimination is bad (in areas where it is unneeded/irrelevent) but positive Discrimintion (affirmative action) is the worst kind. |
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The problem I see with Affirmative Action is that if you have two jobs open in a workplace, and four applicants, the so-called minority will probably get that job simply because they're the minority either racially, financially, or what have you. |
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The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended. - Frédéric Bastiat
I try to deny myself any illusions or delusions, and I think that this perhaps entitles me to try and deny the same to others, at least as long as they refuse to keep their fantasies to themselves. - Christopher Hitchens
Formerly known as BLUELINE976
In the UK the equality bill is currently going through parliament these are some of the things that will come of it |
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Affirmative action is racism, but there is a pretty good reason for it. I don't think anyone ever intends for it to be a permanent policy. The idea is that collectively, the people who are benefiting from affirmative action are the products of hundreds of years of being held back, so it is a chance for their family line to get a leg up so to speak. If black people are constantly poor and uneducated, they will invariably spawn poor and uneducated children. It gives a person the opportunity to break that cycle and start bringing the minority up to equal levels within the community, in theory. |
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Art
The ability to happily respond to any adversity is the divine.
Dream Journal Shaman Apprentice Chronicles
I was JUST about to say that |
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Very well said, Xaq. I agree on all points. |
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Dream Journal: Dreamwalker Chronicles Latest Entry: 01/02/2016 - "Hallway to Haven" (Lucid)(Or see the very best of my journal entries @ dreamwalkerchronicles.blogspot)
Xaq, positive discrimination is raw racism, there's no justification for it. The government should be training people who have less than average qualifications. Whites in poverty don't get the advantage of positive discrimination. It's not because minorities are underqualified and need assistance getting onto the jobs ladder, it's JUST because they are a minority. |
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But what you (and so many other people) do not acknowledge is that racism is still very strong in the work force. It always has been, and it will be for some time to come. It is a problem that so many people want to sweep under the rug - you know, the whole "out of sight, out of mind" thing - but there is still a lot to be said for minorities being held back, simply because they are minorities. |
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Last edited by Oneironaut Zero; 04-25-2010 at 12:50 AM.
Dream Journal: Dreamwalker Chronicles Latest Entry: 01/02/2016 - "Hallway to Haven" (Lucid)(Or see the very best of my journal entries @ dreamwalkerchronicles.blogspot)
As I said oneironaut, traditional discrimination is bad but so called "positive" discrimination is at best just as bad, and in reality worse becuase if nothing else it simply is racism against a higher number of people. I'm going to create a few diagrams of what the major flaw in positive discreimination is to demonstrate where the good intention may lie but the practice fails. |
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"Positive discrimination" being "bad" (in ways) is something that I will agree with. It being "at best just as bad or worse" than "traditional discrimination" is something I'd genuinely like to see a good argument for. Because if you're saying what I think you're saying, it would be kind of like saying that a few handi-capped people shouldn't get the parking spots that are closest to the entrance of the building (but on a much more serious scale, of course). |
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Last edited by Oneironaut Zero; 04-25-2010 at 01:19 AM.
Dream Journal: Dreamwalker Chronicles Latest Entry: 01/02/2016 - "Hallway to Haven" (Lucid)(Or see the very best of my journal entries @ dreamwalkerchronicles.blogspot)
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You're looking at the problem as if it's going to be completely equal. It's not...right now (if ever). It is a measure that is in place to even the odds, at the expense of some of the people of this generation. It is the epitome of looking at the at the problem in a macrocosm and not a microcosm. |
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Dream Journal: Dreamwalker Chronicles Latest Entry: 01/02/2016 - "Hallway to Haven" (Lucid)(Or see the very best of my journal entries @ dreamwalkerchronicles.blogspot)
I found this to be interesting: |
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The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended. - Frédéric Bastiat
I try to deny myself any illusions or delusions, and I think that this perhaps entitles me to try and deny the same to others, at least as long as they refuse to keep their fantasies to themselves. - Christopher Hitchens
Formerly known as BLUELINE976
but then it's going past the mark, first people were prefered because they were white, then people were prefered because they were best qualified, now people are prefered because they are a minority, due to affirmative action, it's actually gone too far and is going the other way. |
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Perhaps in some parts of the world there is no justification for it, but there is in most of the developed world where people of dark skin have been subjugated for the better part of the last 2 hundred years in the United States, and for thousands of years before that all over the world (although people of all colors have been slaves at one point or another in the history of the Earth, Africa has been by far the preferred place to obtain slaves). You may not know it, but if you are white and come from an old American family, you have been benefited by slavery. If you are black and come from an old American family, your lineage in this country started as slaves. |
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Last edited by Xaqaria; 04-25-2010 at 01:51 AM.
Art
The ability to happily respond to any adversity is the divine.
Dream Journal Shaman Apprentice Chronicles
I think at the current time, things like poverty holds more people back than race does. While you can still find individual people who are racism, systematic racism in the US really is dead. Affirmative action has clearly been on its way out for years, and extreme cases of it are even illegal now. It really isn't needed, and doesn't help anything. |
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Why should somones ancestors from hundreds of years ago determine employment preference today? In essence it means that black people today benefited from slavery more than white today because in 2010 they get positive discrimination entitlement. In europe virtually none of the minorities are descendants of the african slave trade apart from carribean blacks in the UK so the past argument doesn't apply here(not that it should in the US either). you even admit all groups have been slaves in the past so why don't we count? Also if most slaves were west africans then why should east africans even count for this? |
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Last edited by Thatperson; 04-25-2010 at 02:01 AM.
I don't think "systematic" racism is the problem. I think individual racism is the problem, when there are so many racists still living on Old Power. "Systematic racism" is being used like some "conspiratorial, all-powers-unite-to-keep-the-minorities-down" type of movement, when - like I said - that doesn't seem to be the problem. When so many of today's (and yesterday's) empowered still carry old, racial sentiments, it is an unspoken, back-of-the-mind racism that keeps individuals down, more than anything else. |
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Dream Journal: Dreamwalker Chronicles Latest Entry: 01/02/2016 - "Hallway to Haven" (Lucid)(Or see the very best of my journal entries @ dreamwalkerchronicles.blogspot)
yeah in the past, not now, i'm refering to affirmative action as it is now, but even in the past it wasn't better than the alternative, equality was what was needed, not affirmative action. Discrimination is discrimination, plain and simple. The same number of people will be employed/unemployed, you're saying you'd rather see whites unemployed than blacks then? |
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why should a fortunate well educated employable black get the added bonus of positive discrimination but because other blacks are unqualified, did you see my diagram? You say you want to give a help hand to groups, why not give the helping hand to the blue group rather than the right group. and help should come in the form of making them more employable, not just handing out jobs that they are less qualified for than the best candidate. |
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if equality cannot be enforeced then the better of two evils should apply, (traditional discrimination), and even as bluelight says, private sector employers should really be free to choose who they employ (government departments however should not be able to discriminate) |
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