This is for the birds/bats

[Howie]

The entire world is increasingly growing dependant on natural resources. Lets face it. Natural resources are only going to carry us so far. Then what???????????? Well let us run out and then figure it out! There are some companies that are developing alternative methods to crude oil and natural gas. These Companies have gigantic</span> windmills that strech across areas of the midwest. Aside from nuclear power and solor generated power, I think the next best thing on the horizon (no pun intended) is the power of mother nature, in the force of wind. I live by the great lakes, lake Erie to be procise, these companies want to develope a system of windmills out on the lake. The arguments; 1.They are an eye sore. 2.<span style="color:darkblue">The already functioning windmills have shown that they kill some birds and a good number of bats. (rather odd knowing they have radar????) You would think they could put somthing on the order of a sound device on the windmill. Much like the ones you put on your car to scare deer away. So. Is it worth it or are there alternative methods?

[dream-scape]

Originally posted by Howetzer You would think they could put somthing on the order of a sound device on the windmill. Much like the ones you put on your car to scare deer away. Oh c'mon man where are you from? Those have never worked.

[bradybaker]

You underestimate how much power a country like the US consumes annually. You would have to completely cover about half of all US land with windmills to come even close to generate enough energy to power everything.

[Kaniaz]

Originally posted by bradybaker You underestimate how much power a country like the US consumes annually. You would have to completely cover about half of all US land with windmills to come even close to generate enough energy to power everything. Too true. Maybe we should just chuck a bunch of EMP's down on major cities, then that'll solve the problem!

[Howie]

Originally posted by bradybaker+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bradybaker)</div> You underestimate how much power a country like the US consumes annually. You would have to completely cover about half of all US land with windmills to come even close to generate enough energy to power everything.[/b] This is just one of the many examples over the internet about windmills. And what is being done with all that grass land in the prairies?? Sitting idle. Ten years ago, the United States was the king of wind energy. The U.S. produced 90 percent of the world’s wind-blown electricity. By 1996, that number had dropped to 30 percent. What happened to the wind industry? Wind is the fastest growing energy technology in the world today. In the last three years, wind capacity worldwide has more than doubled. Experts expect the production from wind machines to triple in the next few years. India and many European countries are planning major new wind facilities. In the United States, however, wind capacity grew very slowly in the 1990s. Many new wind projects were put on hold because of electricity deregulation. Utilities were not sure how deregulation would affect many new technologies. Would the government still encourage utilities to invest in renewable energy projects? Would there be a market for the energy produced? The answers to these questions are still not known. Nevertheless, investment in wind energy is beginning to increase because its cost has come down and the technology has improved. Wind is now one of the most competitive sources for new generation. Another hopeful sign for the wind industry is consumer demand for green pricing. Many utilities around the country now allow customers to voluntarily choose to pay more for electricity generated by renewable sources. The wind industry is poised to make a comeback. New wind plants are now operating or under construction in Washington, Oregon, Nevada, Montana, Wyoming, Texas, Iowa, Kansas, and other states. The direction is changing for wind energy in the U.S. Wind Energy Economics On the economic front, there is a lot of good news for wind energy. First, a wind plant is far less expensive to construct than a conventional energy plant. Wind plants can simply add wind machines as electricity demand increases. Second, the cost of producing electricity from the wind has dropped dramatically in the last two decades. Electricity generated by the wind cost 30 cents per kWh in 1975, but now costs less than five cents per kWh. New turbines are lowering the cost even more. Wind & the Environment In the 1970s, oil shortages pushed the development of alternative energy sources. In the 1990s, the push came from a renewed concern for the environment in response to scientific studies indicating potential changes to the global climate if the use of fossil fuels continues to increase. Wind energy offers a viable, economical alternative to conventional power plants in many areas of the country. Wind is a clean fuel; wind farms produce no air or water pollution because no fuel is burned. The most serious environmental drawbacks to wind machines may be their negative effect on wild bird populations and the visual impact on the landscape. To some, the glistening blades of windmills on the horizon are an eyesore; to others, they’re a beautiful alternative to conventional power plants. Future of Wind Wind Churner With a blade that’s 144 feet in diameter, the Vestas V44-600 is the largest wind turbine in operation. Perched atop a 160-foot tower west of Traverse City, Michigan, the turbine provides slightly less than one percent of the Traverse City Light and Power Company’s total output. But, that’s enough for about 200 residential customers. These patrons, who get all their electricity from wind power, agreed to pay about 20 percent more than other utility customers to support the project. The turbine was built in Denmark. The blade tips pitch to capture the most energy from the winds and the rotor and generator speed can vary slightly to smooth out power fluctuations. In average winds of 14 to 15 mph, the annual production from the wind turbine is estimated at between 1.1 and 1.2 million kWh. WARP A different kind of system to convert wind energy into electricity has been designed by an aeronautical engineer in Connecticut. Eneco's Wind Amplified Rotor Platform (WARP) does not use large blades; instead, it looks like a stack of wheel rims. Each module has a pair of small, high capacity turbines mounted to both of its concave wind amplifier module channel surfaces. The concave surfaces channel wind toward the turbines, amplifying wind speeds by 50 percent or more. Eneco, plans to market the technology to power offshore oil platforms and wireless telecommunications systems. In the future, however, the Eneco design could be used by utilities for major power generation. Huge WARP fields could be built with towers hundreds of feet tall, each generating megawatts of electricity. Turbines could even be integrated into buildings to provide power for the occupants. <!--QuoteBegin-dream&#045;scape Oh c'mon man where are you from? Those have never worked. Hey, I was just throwing out an idea. Deer don't use radar. So it might possibly work for bats. Why don't you try to come up with somthing rather than shoot down another's idea.

[Alex D]

Well I do think that it is worth it, I'm not a fan of nuclear power and am so glad the powerstation near me is being decomisioned, however, they are building the millsnear me too, which no one I know is happy about, except me. They argue all of what you said, but they also say that they are too loud, which contradicts the killing birds argument, no animl would be stupid enough to go near somthing that loud. On the subject of sound polution, yeah the make a sound, but only if your standing right next to them. The nearest house to them would be 2 miles away (and that just means the edge of the farmers fields, the nearest real house is 4 miles), it simply won't be that loud that far away.

[Peregrinus]

You're forgetting about solar energy. Solar power is quickly becoming cost-competitive with many other power sources, and research in the field is active. One of the profs in my department is working on developing new solar cell materials, but unfortunately, I can't remember how efficient he said the cells are now. Obviously there's a range, but I think the newer materials can be used to achieve an efficiency comparable to that of a gasoline-powered engine and without the noxious by-products. At this point, it’s largely a materials problem— the wider the bandgap of the material, the more EM radiation it can absorb, and thus the more efficient it will be. Short-term, we can start shingling houses and roofing buildings with solar cells. (NASA already has a solar-powered plane and there are small, flat, and slow experimental cars that are also solar powered.) My long-term prediction would be that we’ll eventually have vast solar panel arrays in space to harvest solar energy and transmit it back to earth in a more convenient form. That sort of technology, especially designing a safe transmission system, is a ways away, but I think it’s one of our better options.

[Kaniaz]

Birds run into cars don't they? And they're pretty loud. But yeah, that point is a pretty stupid one. Birds do have brains, albeit small ones, and know that running into things like that isn't good and won't help them very much. But do we have to cover the spare land we've got we've more man made crap? We've got houses everywhere, now let's stick giant white poles over the land too! :/

[Alex D]

I know how you feel there, one thing that I don't understand is if hey stick them slightly off the cost, where tere is more wind, wouldn't that make more sense, seriously, it's not economical sticking them in a field when you can do that.

[Howie]

Originally posted by Peregrinus+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Peregrinus)</div> You're forgetting about solar energy. Solar power is quickly becoming cost-competitive with many other power sources, and research in the field is active. One of the profs in my department is working on developing new solar cell materials, but unfortunately, I can't remember how efficient he said the cells are now. Obviously there's a range, but I think the newer materials can be used to achieve an efficiency comparable to that of a gasoline-powered engine and without the noxious by-products. At this point, it’s largely a materials problem— the wider the bandgap of the material, the more EM radiation it can absorb, and thus the more efficient it will be. Short-term, we can start shingling houses and roofing buildings with solar cells. (NASA already has a solar-powered plane and there are small, flat, and slow experimental cars that are also solar powered.) My long-term prediction would be that we’ll eventually have vast solar panel arrays in space to harvest solar energy and transmit it back to earth in a more convenient form. That sort of technology, especially designing a safe transmission system, is a ways away, but I think it’s one of our better options.[/b] <!--QuoteBegin-howetzer Aside from nuclear power and solor generated power I didn't I believe windmills that are put in the correct location average about 56 to 60% effiancy. With solor power you have to have a climate condusive to generate it. Just like you have to place wind mill where there is wind. There is a lot of area that the percentage of sun is not that great.

[Peregrinus]

Originally posted by howetzer Aside from nuclear power and solor generated power Whoops. My bad.

[nightowl]

i guess i wouldnt mind one as long as it wasn't noisy ._.

[Howie]

Originally posted by nightowl i guess i wouldnt mind one as long as it wasn't noisy ._. They are noisy. But for the majority of them they are usally put in a vast open space out in a remote area. And if they are not. I have talked to a couple of farmers that said that the royalties from having them on their land was more than worth the noise & the eyesoar. They would not devulge how much they made though. Doing a small bit of research myself, it all depended on what the windmill generated in comparison to your gratuities. Much like a gas or oil well.

[nightowl]

ah..i see...i dont think they would put it around where i live anyway..i live in a suburban area so no room and right now they are literally building condominiums on every inch of free space here....bastards...