Sleep and dreaming performing two dif things?

[wizkid]

I have been thinking about this for a while now. I find that when I fall asleep at night and don’t dream, I have a much harder time concentrating the next day. However I find when I dream which is almost never and sometimes this takes an extra sleeping session midday to get my attention span back or an extra long period of sleeping, I will be able to concentrate and it almost feels like this lump in the far left back of my skull feels soothed like there was this release. Now a little back ground information. I am literally a thinking addict. All I do is think about theories and the way information fits together, I’m extremely logical as a person and not very creative which would also tie into why I have so few dreams. I run a website about Abnormal Psychology and I am utterly focused on what I am going to be doing next. Basically I am mentally tired at the end of the day ether by my choice or not due to my thinking cyclical tendencies. So basically what I am thinking is that the mind prioritizes "needs" while asleep. Rest to get the body recouped. And then dreams to release the ideas that are cluttering up the mind from the previous day or two. In my case its like my mind never gets around to actually releasing the clutter from the day before. I made a thread a while back about what the mind is doing and not the content of the dream for it serves a purpose. Which this post ties in too. So basically what I am asking is if this happens to anybody else. Thx for your time. (dreams perform the same exact thing in schizophrenics, as they are basically walking dreamers. I personally want to be able to concentrate and if I can find a pattern in this, then it would shed some light on a few other issues that I am currently running through my mind at the moment.) Chris

[Redrivertears]

Hey there, Lets see if we can shed some light on some things "I have been thinking about this for a while now. I find that when I fall asleep at night and don’t dream, I have a much harder time concentrating the next day." Here's a first problem we run in to. You always dream. The only question is whether you remember your dreams or not. But you start dreaming the moment you fall asleep, and you stop dreaming the moment you awaken, and all the time inbetween... you dream. Scientists used to believe you only dream during REM sleep, but that notion is long since been outdated with the discovery of NREM dreams. So for you to say that 'you find it harder to concentrate' if you don't dream is much more likely related to sleep then dreaming directly. My guess would be that in these days, you have been sleeping much deeper. Generally deep sleep makes it much harder to remember dreams. Your consciousness has almost completely shut down, making it far harder to remember your dreams. You say you would dream when you sleep extra long or during extra naps in the day. This is related to the above. The extra sleep is sleep your body doesn't really need, which is likely to make you sleep less deep and lighter, making it easier to remember things. Moving on: "I’m extremely logical as a person and not very creative which would also tie into why I have so few dreams" As far as I know creativity and dreamrecall are not related. I've seen a few recall studies in my time, but I can't remember that creativity was a factor in how easily you remember dreams. It'd been a good few years though so I might be wrong. Much more likely though, your 'thinking addiction' as you call it is what is keeping you from remember your dreams. Your thoughts are so focussed on these theories that they immediately kick in when you awaken. It's like a person who wakes up and immedately begins to think about what he has to do the next day, or a person who has an exam tomorrow and keeps stressing about it and thinking about it while going to sleep. This makes him not pay attention to his dreams, which results in no recall of them. Like you yourself said: "You are utterly focussed on what you are going to be doing next." "In my case its like my mind never gets around to actually releasing the clutter from the day before" Honestly, more likely, it sounds like you're difficulty letting go and relaxing overall. This isn't related to sleeping or dreaming directly. Your mind is basically "working" 24/7. No wonder you start having a hard time concentrating after a while. I'd have a hard time concentrating too if I had to work from 8am in the morning till 23pm in the evening, every day Although this might not be what you want to hear, I'd look more into your own 'thinking-addiction' as you call it and how to relieve some stress from that and occasionally try to take a break from it, then to consider what you're experiencing to be sleep/dream related. Anyways, just my 2 cents, -Redrivertears-

[wizkid]

First of all let me thank you for your response. I have a few things of my own to add. Hey there, Lets see if we can shed some light on some things "I have been thinking about this for a while now. I find that when I fall asleep at night and don’t dream, I have a much harder time concentrating the next day." Here's a first problem we run in to. You always dream. The only question is whether you remember your dreams or not. But you start dreaming the moment you fall asleep, and you stop dreaming the moment you awaken, and all the time in-between... you dream. Scientists used to believe you only dream during REM sleep, but that notion is long since been outdated with the discovery of NREM dreams. So for you to say that 'you find it harder to concentrate' if you don't dream is much more likely related to sleep then dreaming directly. I love to analyze things for myself. It’s just the problem with my own dreams is that I experience very little of them. And of top of it I dream in black in white so my dreams even when I have them are very uneventful to say the least. Its hard to even know if I "dream all the time" and hence since I dream very little, I guess the best course of action is to read up on the information known about dreams and dreaming in general before I make any more predictions on them. My guess would be that in these days, you have been sleeping much deeper. Generally deep sleep makes it much harder to remember dreams. Your consciousness has almost completely shut down, making it far harder to remember your dreams. I always sleep deep. Always. I can sleep through people snoring, thunderstorms and the lights on. It’s a little crazy to be honest. You say you would dream when you sleep extra long or during extra naps in the day. This is related to the above. The extra sleep is sleep your body doesn't really need, which is likely to make you sleep less deep and lighter, making it easier to remember things. Yeah I think you hit the nail on the head. I find when I have a super easy day I sleep lighter then normal. I’m pretty sure you are entirely accurate on this. Moving on: "I’m extremely logical as a person and not very creative which would also tie into why I have so few dreams" As far as I know creativity and dreamrecall are not related. I've seen a few recall studies in my time, but I can't remember that creativity was a factor in how easily you remember dreams. It'd been a good few years though so I might be wrong. Not so much creativity as creativity has to be harnessed, but more so the level of estrogen production a person has, upbringing that allows empathy to come to the surface which develops a denser grey area, human contact at key points in your development. Basically anything that brings emotion to the surface that helps develop the parts of the brain that deal with internal visualization simply because it acts as stimulant to the neurons in the brain. This also increases internal frequency and if you know anything about cymatics then you would know that an increased internal frequency is related to creativity if harnessed properly. Its also the source of symmetry in nature etc which is neglected at the evolution level for some reason. How does this relate to dreams? Well the better the visual memory somebody has, the more active and vivid the dreams are going to be. You know this when you start cross referencing information/people with autism, AS syndrome, chemical composition of the female, gay men, Nicoli Tesla's work with frequency and a few other things. I could go into it but it is a fairly long write up. Much more likely though, your 'thinking addiction' as you call it is what is keeping you from remember your dreams. Your thoughts are so focused on these theories that they immediately kick in when you awaken. It's like a person who wakes up and immediately begins to think about what he has to do the next day, or a person who has an exam tomorrow and keeps stressing about it and thinking about it while going to sleep. This makes him not pay attention to his dreams, which results in no recall of them. I think it is much simpler then this, simply because logical thought and creativity hold a balance to each other and it deals with the above in which I mentioned internal frequency. Logical people tend to concentrate on the fundamentals of an idea or set of ideas. And therefore limit much of the information that would be taken in by others who were more creative. Well this would limit the connection of ideas in the brain to a few core elements. Therefore the dreams themselves would be limited in there construction When I say logic and creativity are in fact balanced. It comes down to the balance of estrogen/testosterone, upbringing and other factors that influence our development. Autistic children have a larger brain, well they also have an excess of testosterone at birth, and this creates artificial expansion. Now if there is artificial expansion then there isn’t enough nutritional resources and oxygen to go around. Basically creating cells that are introverted in nature. This restricts the stimulus intake of the person in question because of the internal compromise taking place, empathy gets suppressed because things are less nourished and cyclical logical tendencies arise. And therefore the internal frequency stays very low. Well frequency at very low levels stays very linear and logical. However as the frequency is allowed to go up very much like in very creative people, women, gay men etc. Then the cymatic "patterns" also become much more complex and intricate. This would indicate that the cells themselves are arranged differently and when stimulus from the outside world come in, then everything is organized different. Autistic children for example are obsessed with order and in some cases right stacking objects. Well this would also reflect the internal frequency. And since the brain is compromised by being bigger. It’s literally underdeveloped, empathy doesn’t come to the surface and their development suffers on the whole. I said I wouldn’t get into this but I did. Anyways there are other examples. But ill save those for another time. Like you yourself said: "You are utterly focused on what you are going to be doing next." "In my case its like my mind never gets around to actually releasing the clutter from the day before" Honestly, more likely, it sounds like you're difficulty letting go and relaxing overall. This isn't related to sleeping or dreaming directly. Your mind is basically "working" 24/7. No wonder you start having a hard time concentrating after a while. I'd have a hard time concentrating too if I had to work from 8am in the morning till 23pm in the evening, every day Although this might not be what you want to hear, I'd look more into your own 'thinking-addiction' as you call it and how to relieve some stress from that and occasionally try to take a break from it, then to consider what you're experiencing to be sleep/dream related. Anyways, just my 2 cents, -Redrivertears- Dreams sole purpose is to maximize the efficiency of the mind for the next day. You can see this in schizophrenics for they are literally walking dreamers, at least in the disorganized state, the other two states perform the same function but on through a set of emotional events that they have to justify and conquer for they have built up excess stimulus in the mind and it needs a release. And the whole purpose of the schizo attack is to essentially relieve the mind and restore the equilibrium. And really is the purpose of dreams itself. Overall it’s not the content of the dream that is important but the emotional content behind the ideas in dream. That is how the brain works, strictly on emotion as emotion is the source of stimulus and is a key component on evolution. For without emotion, there would be no goals, without goals there would be no physical stimulation, without physical stimulation there would be no evolution as there wouldn’t be anything to adapt too. And what brings it all together is internal frequency which gives us our symmetry and balance. As for me not being able to concentrate. I had a horrible upbringing and I am pretty convinced I have ADHD because of it. All in all I am just looking for ways to help me focus a little more. I am going to go read up on the dif stages of dreaming. Actually if I can find the frequency in which the dream states hover around. I’m sure I can pull some information from it and correlate it with dif states of development and draw some conclusions from it. Anyways thanks for your post.