Dreaming Moments and Memories

[Raspberry]

Ok, so recently I've been getting many more regular lucids than I would have usually. The vividness of my dreams and recall has also improved. This has brought something to my attention that I find hard to understand. During the dream (non-lucid or lucid) it feels as though I am really there and in the moment. But when I wake up, it feels like a distant memory, from a long time ago. Obviously it IS a memory at that point, but it feels different from a normal memory. It feels dream-like. Like it was a non-lucid. BUT in the actual dream, it didn't feel at all like how I remember it. So what confuses me is how I remember both, the actual being there, and how normal it feels, AND the dream-like feel to it and the strange-ness. Because I know the dream-like feel only happens when I wake up and remember it. It's like doing something twice and having different outcomes. I know that my lucids are in fact lucid because I can remember that in-the-moment feeling, but at the same time it feels as though it were a normal dream. The same kind of dreamy, thick, strange atmoshere. This happens in my non-lucids too, obviously. During the dream, although I have no control, I am still there. But when I wake up it's all dreamy. What confuses me (ahhh it's hard to explain) is how I can distinguish the two when it feels like a memory. How, when I'm non-lucid, I still feel as though I'm there, when I only remember it when I wake up, and by that time it feels like a dream. So I guess my point in this thread, is to ask whether this happens to you too, and if you understand what I mean. I really think I've made a mess of explaining it but am not sure how else to put it.

[Elkfazer]

I know exactly what you mean as I have these sorts of "dual" memories all the time. You've explained it very well btw and far better than I could have! Remember that your subconscious whilst dreaming, is the part of mind that is experiencing the dream-world as if it is the waking world and so it follows that that is where your memories of being IN the dream originate from. It's a bit like having a mirror-image of your self acting out in exactly the same way as you would in waking life. You also have your consciousness present at the same time, abeit not in lucid form, taking in all the sights, sounds and surroundings of your dream world, this of course has to be present for you to remember anything of the dream when you wake up in the morning. This, I believe, is the reason you can differentiate between the two types of memories, one subconscious memory of being there in real time and one conscious-derived memory of a distant event that took place earlier in the night Memories are quite hard to work with though and you can try a simple test on yourself to see how much you can remember right now. Try to remember the last time you ate or drank something earlier today, can you really remember the taste, texture, temperature of the food the same way you did at the time? Chances are that you will of course, but I'm sure it's a little bit of a faded event now and as time progresses it'll probably get harder and harder to do so. Nice thoughtful topic, pardon the pun, btw

[BrerRabbit]

I've pondered this myself and appreciate how you describe your observations. It seems as though there's something "unreal" about the dream memories, even seconds after waking from what was otherwise an incredibly real experience. I think that neuroscience might posit some sort of pseudo-scientific explanation ("a different area of your brain lights up when you think about dream memories as opposed to waking life memories") which--true or not--might obscure a more psychological explanation. In short, I think it's possible that because we are so culturally programmed to consider our dreams as "unreal" that we habitually and unconsciously imbue dream memories with a feeling of "unrealness." In fact, I think one reason why so many people don't remember their dreams at all is because we've been conditioned to think of dreams as mental fantasies without any deeper meaning. That's why I think lucid dreaming is so important in bringing our awareness back to the dream realities. The more and more you have lucid dream experiences, the more and more real they will become--even in memory. (At least, so I think.) In Tibetan Dream Yoga one is advised to consider as frequently as possible the dream-like nature of waking reality. I think the more you do this, and the more that you become aware of your dream experiences, the less your memories of your two worlds--waking and sleeping--will seem different. That being said, I imagine it's a slow process. Most of us here have spent most of our lives thinking dreams are fantasies and that the only real experiences are waking experiences. That's a long time of forming bad mental habits!

[Raspberry]

Thanks guys. I'm glad my explanation made sense, when I was typing it out I was thinking "NO ONE is ever going to be able to understand what I mean. WHAT THE HECK!" *posts thread* It makes sense now, but I still find it really hard to try and wrap my head around. My lucids are especially like this. In the lucid it feels real. I even think stuff like "There is no way I'm going to wake up and wonder if I'm truely lucid because everything just feels so real." But then I wake up, and the more I think about it and recall it, the more fantasty-ish it becomes. It's still nice thinking about them, but it still has that hint of unrealness that makes me a little sad because to me, no matter how mundane the lucid is, is still an incredible experience because of the fact that you are asleep. I will work on trying to consider how dream-like waking reality is Anything to make dreams better right?