Religion and Myth

**Blulanou42** · 11-24-2003 09:15 PM

Is it ok if we try to have a civil discussion about our respective religions?

We have to agree to some ground rules first though:

"Be excellent to eachother." We all have to agree that even though each of us has a different term or mantra or view, that G(g)od(s) is something that we all share in common, we are all humans apart of the same collective consciousness. So let us all agree to not step on eachother's toes and rationally discuss our own individual perspectives of eternity, understanding that each one of us will have a different opinion, and each of us is right cause we all live in the same world.

Remember that love is universal. And each of our perceptions is our own "god" ego or what have you. I want to learn, not debate. It is the ETERNAL question, none of our answers are fight, none are wrong. The only wrong answer is one of biggotry or hatred, I will not tolerate that.
we are all the same

These Are our personal perspectives. These are our DREAMS.

That being said, I am a Taoist.

(granted, i mix and match christian, rasta, buddha, shamanism, into it)

What are you guys?

**nerve** · 11-24-2003 09:21 PM

we already made a thread like this. or discussed it in one anyway.

**Blulanou42** · 11-24-2003 09:33 PM

Taoist Bard

I believe that the eternal 'god' rests in an even more eternal 'void.'
I practice three forms of meditation, Thissipana (early Buddhist tradition), Prayer (Christian style), and Taoist (empty mind, full heart living).
My God is everything and everyone and every nothing.
I dare not give "god" a name, for god is the unpercievable. To percieve god is to enter Adams "Total perspective vortex," you'd have to see eternity all at once, this is impossible for any human to do.
I try to love everyone, I try to hate no thing. I am very opposed to war and very opposed to most institutionalization, ie capitalist consumerism.
I understand that even thogh institutions are wrong, the very essence of sin, that they are nessesary because we are all 'fallen' or imperfect, or perpetual sinners...we simply cannot help ourselves, we must learn and do to survive.
I also incorporate these myth/religions into my life frequently: Christianity, Gnosticism, Buddhism, Islam, Zoroaster, Tribalism (Alchemy and shamanism), Druidism, Paganism, Science, Sorcery (Necromancy, Divination, Illusion, Enchantment, etc.), Atheism and anything else I read about.

I find that my Taoist perspective has made me quite unitarian, whereas I believe we all see the same thing, we just each have different names for it.

The Tao is great because it is a functioning contradiction. Everything and nothing. So to me, Christianity and Atheism are really the same belief system, the perpetuate one another. Please do not be offended by this. I believe that contradictions work together to 'create' themselves. Without one, the other simply would not exist.

I grew up Christian, Southern Baptist to be exact, and I still hold tru a lot of the scriptures. My faves are Mathew and the Revelation, and of course, anything that the gnostics did.

I am a Bard simply cause I've studied my whole life. It's more my class, but I feel that the way one LIVES is religion, as opposed to the way one PRAYS. I have sang all my life. I write like a mad fool (My job irl is journalism), I paint, draw and sculpt, I love to talk, I studied rhetoric and the history of miscommunication and translation. I have thoroughly studied patterns of speech, and here repitition loops in conversation that most are not sensitive to...in other words, i never 'talk about the weather.'

SO, like all ppl, I'm a religious mutt:

taoistchristianshamanbarddrood

i am a part of all religions, because i am human

peace, love, be nice

i really want to hear what everyone believes

<-------I believe in this! Yea Bards!!!

**Blulanou42** · 11-24-2003 09:34 PM

I know this was already a thread...but it wasn't right.

I want analytical discussion, not bible bashing and what have you.

Lets talk about the orgins of each of our own perspectives

**nerve** · 11-24-2003 09:51 PM

*sigh*

I mean there was a thead, not too long ago, where we discussed religion without any bashing.

I'm sorry blu. I've been hateful to you I guess. I really don;t know why. you actually seem like a pretty cool guy...

and I have to ask you somehthing, what in the word is a 'bard'? I personally have no idea, other than what my boyfriend says when he talks about EQ...I asked what does a bard do? he said ''sings.'' but I'd like you to elaborate maybe, please?

**Lucius** · 11-24-2003 09:52 PM

First,lol, who is islamitic here?? Somebody voted that..

Im a buddhist..but more specified..Zen

I dont really have time to tell stuff right now so..im not 8)

**Seeker** · 11-24-2003 10:00 PM

I voted Christian, since that is probably as close as any choices come.
I do believe there was a "(G)god" that started this whole reality, but I am not as dogmatic as many christian denominations can be.
True Christianity respects and understands truth, no matter whether it was first said by Buddha, Mohammed, or Jesus.

I am trying to reconcile the beliefs of eternal life and eternal damnation. How can a god be truly good if he condones eternal punishment for those that do not worship him?

My belief system incorporates much of buddhism, although I am not convinced of the validity reincarnation.

Do I sound confused? Guess I think too much. Live was much simpler when I was devout and KNEW my beliefs were the way!

I guess you could label me a Christian minimalist.

**Silver Sphere** · 11-25-2003 12:33 AM

I don't tend to call myself an "atheist" but that's what I voted for. I expend very little thought on "God" and expect to rot in my grave upon death. No, this doesn't make me feel as if my life is meaningless.

Outside of some of the more spiritual trappings, I think the Buddhists tend to have a pretty good plan though.

**Blulanou42** · 11-25-2003 01:14 AM

Even those who rot in their graves go to a greater purpose. I will be humbly thankful to recycle into the earth once my physical form is exausted.

even the meekest are reincarnated into a million plants, a thousand bugs, a hundred lives...we all feed and survive because of eachother. I think death is noble. I think though that Buddha didn't mean reincarnation as literally as most take it. It's just the reciprocation of energy. We don't die and come back as one beings, we are constantly a part of millions of beings, through life and after death. I think maybe the only hell is the one that exists here, in the minds of those tortured by their own axieties and paranoias. We can equally reicarnate our own manifest realities, in our own minds and in the minds of others. Such is the way of ethos.

42 · 11-25-2003 02:33 AM

Hey Blu, thanks for starting this subject. I always find it interesting what others have to say about their beliefs. I myself voted for Christian because that is the base of my hope. My true hope is that God will someday manifest again in the person to "walk and talk with men of every clime". However, I'm pretty far off the "normal" path. I pray and read the Bible, as well as do some meditation, and I study dreaming because I believe in its spiritual significance. I also try to hear as many peoples' views as possible. I like the idea of reincarnation, although I'm not fully set on it - and I most definately believe in the law of karma, allowing also for a law of grace. (Forgive us our debts as we also have forgiven our debtors). Anyway, a little backstory - when I was in high school and prior to that, I believed it all just because I was supposed to and I didn't doubt what my parents said was right because they loved me. But I came to college and saw a lot of things I didn't like in the church. Started thinking for myself. Oops. Big mistake there, huh? haha. So I sort of left any type of church and wandered on my own for a while. Not lost. Just wondered. But then I stopped practicing of my own volition, or rather laziness. I just wanted to drink and get high and not feel bad about anything I did for a while. So I did that until I was pretty lonely and depressed. It got cold. So i turned back to the God I knew and he gave me comfort and love. And from then until now (a couple years - I'm 23) I've been working a lot on myself and trying to see how i can start helping other people who are not so loved. Jesus said the greatest commandment was love the lord your god, then love thy neighbor as thyself. Love is the most important thing. Greater love has none than this - that one would give up his life for his friends. And by friends, I'm thinking He meant everyone and everything that is part of this existence with you, like ever.

enough out of me.

**Serinanth** · 11-25-2003 05:53 AM

Hmmm I think My signiature kinda speaks how I feel about Releigion.

I am wandering around, I am not lost... I almost always find my way somehow...

So I am a mutt as well.

Grew up christian, went to sunday school etc etc, it didnt feel right to me. So I started searching, Searching did not get me anywhere, I got tired, depressed... Then I started to wander recently, and it felt right, I learn more every day now

I beleive some of what the kablah speaks of, how god is nameless, because we cannot possibly perceive it as God is EVERYTHING.

I also find Jesus to be a facinating person, I would love to meet him and hang out and talk, his teachings were simple but powerful, and I think they boiled down to being excellent to one another =)

I also work with crystals and light,I found that they are very potent I dont know how I know how to work with them, but the few workings I made using crystals and other objects did show results, I got feedback from other people telling me that the objects had weight to them, and asked what it was I did to it.

I worship life, by living it, experiencing all that I can seeing and speaking with as many people discovering how they see the world and thus adding to my experience and perception, you ever sit down and talk with a really old person? if not do it. Most of them have some stories to tell. Stop and smell the roses... stop and smell the air...

I am also a scientist, I blend my spiritual beleifs with science.. and it seems that science is catching up to my theories, and quantum mechanics seems to be the field that is doing the best at explainging my thoughts blending this with mystisism seems to work quite well for me, it makes sense, alot of it I cannot explain, but unlike most scientists I do not throw it out the window, I hold onto it and keep wandering, answers keep falling into my lap through the people I meet

Buddism and Tao are also interesting to me

When I die. I wish to be creamated, but I wish my ashes to be mixed into some soil and have an oak tree grown in it, once the tree is large enough transplant it into the woods, perhaps put up a little marker stone next to the tree asking not to cut it down, and why.

**Lucius** · 11-25-2003 08:29 AM

I think reincarnation is really reincarnating into a new being, because we must live several lifes before we can become enlighted and all knowing of yourself.We all live many lifes, as universal material as you mentioned such a soil,earth,water and so on, but we also become animals, and humans until we experienced it all..poverty..leadership..riches..insanity..we learn from each life until we have learned enough and we can stop living the ethernal circle and finnaly remerge with the cosmos and achieve true enlightment..this could be considered a personal heaven aswell..thats how i feel

**Serinanth** · 11-25-2003 09:35 AM

Very much agree with you there, I think we need to see it all before we can finaly... Be and you just cannot experience all there is in one life time...And some of us are thick headed

**Seeker** · 11-25-2003 01:52 PM

Just sent Paperdoll a long PM in response to something she corrected me on. Thought it might also clarify by beliefs to some of the other members here. Here goes:

You're preaching to the choir. I've been extremely devout in the past. I was a Southern Baptist in my youth, but found it limiting and stale. I switched to Penticostal/Charismatic as a young adult, but found that although they have great energy, they seem to be lacking somewhat in dedication. I have taught classes, prayed for the sick, even spoken in tongues. Now, I am trying to encorporate some of the wisdom from other beliefs into my own.

I do know about Gods grace and salvation, but I cannot believe he would allow anyone to suffer eternally, especially those that die without even hearing about Jesus.

I believe that sheol hades, the holding place for unbelivers from the old testiment, was destroyed when the temple vail was split in two and the new covenant established. At that time, the believers in sheol, the busom of Abraham if you will, joined God in heaven. The others were burnt up and destroyed.

I guess my current belief is that if a person is not saved, that his soul is destroyed at death.

Like I said, me beliefs are essentially Christian and I am born again. I just have some issues I am working through with the mainstream Christian beliefs and denominations.

**********

Thanks Paperdoll for giving me a chance to order mny thoughts! *muffin* for you!

**Dream-Master** · 11-25-2003 02:53 PM

I think this is should be moved off-topic, although it's a good discussion.

**evangel** · 11-25-2003 07:12 PM

Originally posted by Seeker

I am trying to reconcile the beliefs of eternal life and eternal damnation. How can a god be truly good if he condones eternal punishment for those that do not worship him?

I still struggle with this from time to time also, but I am growing to understand God's justice in relationship to his righteousness. My take on this (which is essentially the same as the Reformers of the Protestant Revolution) is that in our fallen state (also known as our sinful state) which we are BORN or conceived INTO, no one is worthy of eternal life except those who have been chosen by God before the Earth was even created. I believe and emphasize this (predestination) because so much of Christianity these days preaches a "works" theology, meaning salvation can be earned through our own efforts (works) versus the imputation of Christ's righteousness alone. Anyway, to make a long explanation short(er), I believe that God is NOT unjust in sending ANYONE to hell (eternal separation from Him) because we as an entire human race deserve hell. This is very hard for people to swallow to say the least because they have already formed their own ideas of what is "good" and what is bad or "Evil" in their minds. In our natural (sinful) state, we cannot conceive of a child being destined to hell before he ever exercises his/her "free will" (or someone who has "never heard of Jesus" also being destined to hell) This teaching, however, is consistent with scripture (Ephesians 1, Romans 8 and 9, and several places in OT). What this does in contrast, is emphasize God's justice (sin=death0 and perfect sacrifice -Christ on the cross =eternal life for those who believe on him -those who believe on Christ evidence themselves to be the chosen or "elect." This teaching is also denied or atleast not emphasized by many Christians too because of its difficulty to accept... We like to believe that God has given us free will, but scripture describes us as "in bondage to our sinful nature" until we are born again (John 3) of God's spirit... Hmmm. lotsa stuff to chew there...

**Seeker** · 11-25-2003 07:20 PM

evangel,
What is your take on eternal seperation from God? Do you believe in an eternal suffering in the lake of fire?
Or do you believe as Armstrong taught that the fire destroys the soul and it is over for the unbelievers?
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

It doesn't really mention eternal-death.

Opinions?

**jill1978** · 11-25-2003 07:52 PM

I think religion is a personal thing, but so is masturbation and I still like to talk about it, heehee....I say I have my own religion, just a feeling inside of what feels good to me some of it sounds like other religions, but I would'nt say I could say I belong to any of them....I guess egnostic is close to me, I have no blind faith in anything, but the idea that there is something else that never dies.

**evangel** · 11-25-2003 08:24 PM

Originally posted by Seeker
evangel,

For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

It doesn't really mention eternal-death.

My take is that we are eternal beings by nature (we are created with an eternal soul -as opposed to inanimate objects or animals), thus there is a sense that even those who don't enter heaven will continue on in eternity... Revelation also calls the lake of fire "the second death" which is referenced several times, but there are no specific details as to what this is, though some references are made. Some (i.e. many Catholics) go into lots of extra-Biblical detail as to what hell is and what happens to those who are in hell. I'll admit it makes for some interesting entertainment, but I personally have no desire to explore hell. I know it is not a place we would want to spend any length of time. I think it may be a variety of things, but the foremost or most poignant of which is "separation from God" (which is actually impossible since God is omnipresent). The meaning of "separation from God" in scripture, I believe, speaks more of the opposite of God's gifts of grace, mercy, eternal blessing, and things beyond human comprehension (things which are poured out on those who will dwell in heaven...) In one sense, everyone on earth enjoys God's presence, whether they acknowledge God or not, so truly, separation from Him is unfathomable... This is kinda vague, I know, but maybe we could continue on pm to allow other voices on the main thread if yer interested.

**Lucius** · 11-25-2003 08:38 PM

Evangel,and all other christians..or actually this goes for all believers

Why are you so sure that you are right, why would heaven and hell exist(or something of the like) the hindu and buddhist beliefs dont belief in such things,are they all wrong? Are those millions of people wrong? While this belief actually was created earlier then christianty..

But the same goes for me as a buddhist, are all those buddhist wrong? Are all those that belief in heaven and hell right? Those whom dont belief in reincarnation? Makes you think alot, but i gues for some reason we down inside also know we are right anyway an we wont give up our faith..but this matter is something that will never fade

**Seeker** · 11-25-2003 08:48 PM

Lucius,

No one has the answers. I cannot speak for others, but no, I'm not 100% sure Christianity is correct.
But all my religeon requires of me is that I have faith that it is so.

Are you 100% sure reincarnation is true?

This is the stuff that wars are(have) been made of. That is why I will discuss, but never argue on the topic of religeon.
Everyone realize that what I say is just my opinion. You must all choose your own paths.

**Lucius** · 11-25-2003 08:51 PM

Like I said, the question will never fade..but thats ok, each its own, im just fine with that

**evangel** · 11-25-2003 08:59 PM

Originally posted by Lucius
Evangel,and all other christians..or actually this goes for all believers

Why are you so sure that you are right, why would heaven and hell exist(or something of the like) the hindu and buddhist beliefs dont belief in such things,are they all wrong? Are those millions of people wrong? While this belief actually was created earlier then christianty..

But the same goes for me as a buddhist, are all those buddhist wrong? Are all those that belief in heaven and hell right? Those whom dont belief in reincarnation? Makes you think alot, but i gues for some reason we down inside also know we are right anyway an we wont give up our faith..but this matter is something that will never fade

I believe that faith is a gift (not something you can simply muster up within yourself) just like salvation is. Thus I am all the more grateful since I am no more grateful than ANYONE else in this world.

**Blulanou42** · 11-25-2003 09:09 PM

I realize that this conversation seems off topic, so let me pose a question to all of your beliefs:

How does religion effect your perception? Also, how does that perception effect what you are capable of lucid dreaming?

If God is each of our perceptions (because we each say our own god is different, eg each of our perceeptions -egos- are different), we can only dream of what we are each able to percieve.

So. everyone try to interelate what you dream (and imagine) to what your personal god theory is.

**Lucius** · 11-25-2003 09:10 PM

To me faith is something that developes over time..older souls will accept religions sooner as they are not ignorant anymore and will try and see further then the young souls who tend to want proof, you could say faith is a gift yes, but to me its a gift that has to evolve..every soul has the gift of faith,everybdoy can follow the dharma, everybody can ultimately be illuminated and achieve true self realisation..

its nice we have diffirent opinions about this evangel, its nice to hear about others beliefs and religions..respect..keep believing!!

All religions unite!