REM and being really tired?

[irishcream]

I had a lucid dream last night, which i'm really surprised about, because i didn't go to bed till three am, and i was really knackered. I didn't expect to dream at all, let alone go lucid!! Can anyone tell me, is it possible to be so tired, that you actually go into REM sooner? My usual REM phase is four am, but with going to bed so late, i expected it to be later, but on reflection, i know that's what time i had the dream... I'd be grateful for any insight on this. Thanks!!

[jay dawg]

yes its me. santadreamstoo's EWILD method has to do with being EXTREMELY tired, to induce REM. also, ive read about training your REM periods and then waiting to sleep when they normally would start, like what you did. i personally would agree that your assumption is correct! 8)

[irishcream]

Wow, although, not being funny...i wouldn't want to do that every night of the week.. I'll have to look out for that in future, i mean, if it works, then what the hell... it could also have been down to the fact that last week i was doing WBTB quite frequently and finding myself coming out of a dream...so maybe my brain subconsciously registered the time, and that's how i was able to go lucid...

[themindsi]

Yes...this interests me too. I read a study the amount of time it takes for the brain to fall into REM sleep. Shortly after reading the article (not the same day) I was very tired and went to sleep, I had a very elaborate dream and woke up, I had only been asleep for 19 minutes! According to the study I think it said I would have had to been asleep for 40 minutes or so before even reaching REM!! Strange...very strange!

[O-Nieronaut]

I myself can reach REM as soon as I fall asleep, though not every time. I used to fall asleep in class and have very elaborate dreams, and I usualy never slept more than 5-10 minutes at a time. Then again, I have a neurological condition where my brain doesn't ever shut dwn like it's supposed to, so that might be part of it.

[irishcream]

That's interesting, what's this neurological condition of which you speak? Do you suffer from Narcolepsy?

[themindsi]

Originally posted by irishcream That's interesting, what's this neurological condition of which you speak? Do you suffer from Narcolepsy? precisely what I was going to ask! 8)

[Jade010]

Hello, I don't know if this will help, but here is my experience. I suffered from insomnia for years and finally was advised to attend a Sleep Clinic (8 years ago). A Sleep Clinic is a hospital setting where physicians/techs ascertain your sleeping patterns via brainwave monitoring for 1 or 2 nights. Because my problem was insomnia, I was given medication to induce sleep after I was completely exhausted and unable to fall asleep on my own. The results showed that I entered REM in approximately 25 minutes on the first night when I was exhausted + had a sleeping tablet. I was told that this (early REM) was "normal" for persons who waited until they were "beyond tired" before attempting to go to sleep. On the second night, I was not exhausted but was still given a sleeping tablet and did not enter REM for approximately 90 minutes. This showed, in my case, that exhaustion induces early onset of REM, but that medication without exhaustion does not. Therefore, I most certainly believe that REM sets in early when we are extremely sleep deprived before finally going to bed. This is why I often wait until I am exhausted before attempting to OBE. For me, it works like a charm. ~Deja

[jay dawg]

excellent point deja. by the way, how long do you stay up before you are tired enough to pull off a WILD/OBE like that? just a night with less sleep? or do you stay up over a day and a half or so? thanks!

[dreamtamer007]

Today driving home from about 20 miles away in mid afternoon I kept yawning. After lying to rest only for a total of about 15 minutes I had a very vivid dream. It’s not that unusual if you’re stressed.

[jensmb20]

I also have some health issues that affect my sleep patterns, chronic fatigue being one of them. You would think that would make sleep easier, but I also have a pretty bad case of fibromyalgia. My body does not easily/often get into the deepest levels of sleep, where the body recharges itself (at least, this is how the doctors have explained it to me!). I do dream, though, frequently, vividly, and at times, lucidly. When I do sleep, no matter how short a time, I dream. I don't know if this is because I'm so exhausted that I drop into deeper levels of sleep quicker or what. I just know that it doesn't seem to take me long to dream at all.

[Jade010]

Here is the best way to induce early REM.... When you get up in the morning, your brain begins to convert Melatonin into Seratonin so that you will wake up. The signal for the brain to do this is Sunlight or Dawn. In the late afternoon, your brain begins to convert the Seratonin back into Melatonin. This is why many people begin to feel tired in the middle of the day. The signal for the brain to do this is reduced Sunlight or Dusk. At night, the brain converts the remaining Seratonin to Melatonin so that the body will go to sleep. The signal for the brain to do this is absence of Sunlight. So you see, awakening before your brain begins to convert Seratonin will cause exhaustion later that night. Therefore, to induce exhaustion, I don't need to "wear myself out" during the day or stay up for days, but simply throw off my circadian rhythm. If I wake up 3 or 4 hours before my brain begins to convert Melatonin into Seratonin, I will be exhausted by approximately 11 PM. I keep my cirdadian rhythm normal for a few days and then wake up 3 or 4 hours before Sunrise - approximately 2 or 3 AM. Note: If you are on any kind of anti-depressant medications, such as SSRI's, you cannot throw off your circadian rhythm in this way because SSRI's keep your Seratonin peaked 24 hours a day. ~Deja Originally posted by jay dawg excellent point deja. by the way, how long do you stay up before you are tired enough to pull off a WILD/OBE like that? just a night with less sleep? or do you stay up over a day and a half or so? thanks!

[CAINE]

You can go into REM almost immediatly after you fall asleep, if you follow the right sleep schedule, http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2002/4/15/103358/720

[Ms. Rene]

Several years ago I began having trouble with sleep paralyzation and lucid dreaming. I say "trouble" becuase I didn't know what was happening to me and it was very frightening. After being told by my university psychologist that I was possibly having side effects from childhood abuse (I have never been abused), I decided to seek out a medical doctor. I ended up being referred to a neurologist who hooked me up to an EEG and did some investigation into my sleep problems. It was discovered that my average time to enter REM sleep is 15 minutes. At the time, I was told that for most other people the average is about 45 minutes. Once in REM sleep my brain waves were off the charts, so to speak. He guessed I have a mild form of narcolepsy but wanted to confer with some collegues before deciding what to do about it. A month later, I was monitored again to gather more info. On my follow up appointment the neurologist told me his conclusion : He and his collegues simply had no idea what was happening to me once I hit REM sleep. My EEG results were passed around, but everyone said the same thing - Sounds like narcolepsy but once I eneter REM sleep my brian was not following any pattern they were familiar with. I was given medication - of which I don't recall the name) but I stopped taking it because it also interfered with my remembering my dreams at all. At present, I naturally experience lucid dreaming quite a bit. But the "sleep paralyzation" or narcoleptic episodes only take place when these things happen: - I have been deprived of regular sleep - the room is a bit too warm - i have not consumed any alcohol within 24 hours (alcohol is a natural depressant) - life is particularly stressful All that to say - yes - being really tired can make you enter REM sleep more quickly than normal. Hope that helps.

[irishcream]

hey guys...thanks for all these posts... it's a good thing to know, but in the long run, doing the crazy hours that i was, isn't really good for my health, so i don't think i'll be doing it that often...also, i found when i was up for many hours the next night, i didn't actually dream about anything, because i was too tired!