Age and Lucidity

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lenscaper

Actually the texts that I am working on all call for the mastery of clear light sleep before Dream Yoga (LD). My routine these days is 5 or 6 hours of good sleep with passive dreaming. When I get that right it leaves with the last sleep cycle for noctural meditation and lucid dreaming.....that's just right for an old guy who needs his sleep. In fact, good restful sleep is crucial for strong lucid dreaming, imo.

---

I see that you follow Zen path, than pure lucid dreaming, of course meditation and yoga can be good for the health. Though even within the last sleep cycle you still can get an 2 to 4 hours of a lucid dream, after all lucid dreaming is still sleeping. You just need to increase your dream control and "forcefully" extend your Rem state beyond the normal boundary. Unless someone on other side is yelling at you to wake up:D, I know you can do it sooner or later.

Quote:

---

As for AP.......I have been out of this old body three strong times in the last few months. It seems that the subtle energy body can be separated (inseparably} from the physical body.

You can't make this stuff up....at least I can't.

---

I hope someday you put down some of your stories in your dream journal, I'm sure many will be interested in reading those.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by michael79

I see that you follow Zen path, than pure lucid dreaming

---

I'd say that I see lucid dreaming as an absolute prerequisite for the practice of dream yoga and I am using both for spiritual improvement rather than recreational purposes. There's a pertinent passage in one of the books I am reading. This is a translation from an 11th century text on the uses of Dream Yoga on the path toward spiritual enlightenment: "The dream yoga begins with cultivating the ability to retain dreams, which means the ability to recognize the dream as a dream while dreaming, without disturbing the flow of content of the experience."

That said, when I find myself alone in a dream......I like to fly.

Quote:

---

I hope someday you put down some of your stories in your dream journal, I'm sure many will be interested in reading those.

---

Hmmmm.....I journal every night. I have never given enough consideration to the journaling section here. Perhaps it would be a good exercise for me to put down a few of my most powerful nocturnal experiences from the last year or so....as I still recall them from memory. Thanks for that suggestion michael79

I have made some entries in my journal. These are the most vibrant nocturnal experiences from the last 18 months or so...all written from memory. They pretty much define my journey thus far.

Thanks again for the suggestion michael79.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lenscaper

I'd say that I see lucid dreaming as an absolute prerequisite for the practice of dream yoga and I am using both for spiritual improvement rather than recreational purposes. There's a pertinent passage in one of the books I am reading. This is a translation from an 11th century text on the uses of Dream Yoga on the path toward spiritual enlightenment:

---

I may disappoint you, but I never read any book on lucidity nor spirituality, this way I remain open minded towards any experience I can have.

Quote:

---

"The dream yoga begins with cultivating the ability to retain dreams, which means the ability to recognize the dream as a dream while dreaming, without disturbing the flow of content of the experience."

---

In most of my Lucid dreaming and Astral Projection I always tend to go with flow of what is happening and where that gonna lead me. I change stuff only when I have a particular goal to achieve.

Quote:

---

That said, when I find myself alone in a dream......I like to fly.

---

I wonder why everybody want to fly on their first experiences, I for example like to roam freely, opening doors and see where they are gonna send me. I found doors, windows, elevators, mirrors to have the most punchy effect. Once I opened my bathroom door ...on the other side I got myself on a train, that was quite a shock.
Though, in my first lucids thirty years ago, I always opened my window to fly above my city and when I was getting tired of flying I lay down on a rooftop to observe the stars.

One suggestion search for your spiritual guide, when you meet him you will get that special feeling that he is the One. This will boost your path towards spirituality tenfold.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by michael79

I may disappoint you, but I never read any book on lucidity nor spirituality, this way I remain open minded towards any experience I can have.

---

I actually like that perspective. Remember, though.....I got a late start in life at this. So I have read everything I can get online and, in some cases in books, on lucid dreaming to try to jump start the experience. It has worked. I'm not really much of a "spiritualist"....certainly not a Buddhist....but I have definitely co-opted many of the Buddhist perspectives in my "bottom up" (as opposed to "top down") approach to full time lucidity and spiritual development.

Quote:

---

I wonder why everybody want to fly on their first experiences.

---

I am just gaining the ability to remain stable for extended periods. Flying....or just even floating....is pretty easy and it is still pretty exhilarating. If your first LD was 30 years ago you have 28 years of experience on me. I like your approach to things.....mine is very similar.

Quote:

---

One suggestion search for your spiritual guide, when you meet him you will get that special feeling that he is the One. This will boost your path towards spirituality tenfold.

---

I actually met a guide a few months ago....but I was not ready. He looked at me so hard that he went right through me. He said nothing but his look told me that he had much to share. His face...especially his grey eyes....is burned into my memory. have not run into him since. Might have missed my chance.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by michael79

I wonder why everybody want to fly on their first experiences,

---

Freedom.

Flying is a near perfect expression of freedom; you can go anywhere you want, in a manner that just smacks waking-life physical restrictions right in the face.

Empowerment.

Flying is an almost unconscious expression of power; an action that easily states the "I can do anything" rush that comes with LD's, especially early on.

Fun.

And, of course, flying can be a hoot!

So: Freedom, power, and great fun; those are some pretty good reasons for novices to fly, I think!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sageous

Freedom.

Flying is a near perfect expression of freedom; you can go anywhere you want, in a manner that just smacks waking-life physical restrictions right in the face.

Empowerment.

Flying is an almost unconscious expression of power; an action that easily states the "I can do anything" rush that comes with LD's, especially early on.

Fun.

And, of course, flying can be a hoot!

So: Freedom, power, and great fun; those are some pretty good reasons for novices to fly, I think!

---

You make some good points there, I myself choose Freedom, Freedom is Fun :P
In my first lucids I not only choose to fly over the city, but also to jump from rooftop to rooftop, which nowadays is called parkour btw and some suicidal jumps from the top of 20 floor buildings:armflap::fly:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lenscaper

I am just gaining the ability to remain stable for extended periods. Flying....or just even floating....is pretty easy and it is still pretty exhilarating.

---

Sometimes try to jump from a skyscraper and flap with yours arms like duck:armflap:, free falling can be very good, it gives me adrenaline rush when wake up:shadewink: if you ever watched the Matrix, when Neo jump from the rooftop and falling.

Quote:

---

If your first LD was 30 years ago you have 28 years of experience on me. I like your approach to things.....mine is very similar.

---

Don't worry I was a natural, almost every dream I have when I was young were lucid, for a while I was thinking that is a standard for everyone, but later learned that most people don't ever dream. Then life gone faster for me and I started to loose the nonstop lucidity. Then some time later I found what I was doing is called Lucid Dreaming and started reading about techniques all over Internet on how to comeback to Lucidity. Along the way I met my Higher Self and my Spiritual guide (SG) and learned tons of stuff, found that SG always is talking in riddles, like a Master to a child. But there are still a lot of stuff I need to learn and discover.

Quote:

---

I actually met a guide a few months ago....but I was not ready. He looked at me so hard that he went right through me. He said nothing but his look told me that he had much to share. His face...especially his grey eyes....is burned into my memory. have not run into him since. Might have missed my chance.

---

Don't worry you will have more chances to meet him, you just need to have an Intension to meet him, he will find you when the time is right, ahh and don't go for the look alone, SG have the ability to shape shift, so he can be anything from a teddy bear to a flying Dragon, but when you meet him you always get a very special feeling which cannot be mistaken, I'm saying this because there can be some fakers which just pretend to be your SG and make fun of you, a low energy beings.

P.S. and remember I'm always very interested in AP and OBE experiences:)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by michael79

Sometimes try to jump from a skyscraper and flap with yours arms like duck:armflap:, free falling can be very good, it gives me adrenaline rush when wake up:shadewink: if you ever watched the Matrix, when Neo jump from the rooftop and falling.

---

I often find myself at a precipice. I think my subconscious is giving me the opportunity. In one dream like that I stood on a snow covered mountain top as lucidity bloomed.....but I hesitated too long and I found myself washing down in an avalanche of snow....fully lucid and laughing. The very next night I entered the dream lucid on that very same mountain top. This time I rushed to the precipice and soared off over the valley.

Quote:

---

remember I'm always very interested in AP and OBE experiences:)

---

Take a quick look at my newly updated DJ. These entries represent the nocturnal experiences that have pretty much shaped my journey over this past year and a half. There are two pretty anomalous experiences there....including one that was either OBE or AP.

https://www.dreamviews.com/blogs/lenscaper/

After two years of diligent day and night practice I have learned a few things:

1. Lucid days lead to lucid nights.

2. The images of the day are every bit as illusory as the images of the night.

3. There are varying degrees of lucidity in both the waking state and the dream state.

4. The really cool stuff sometimes happens in the liminal spaces between waking and dreaming.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by michael79

Sometimes try to jump from a skyscraper and flap with yours arms like duck:armflap:, free falling can be very good, it gives me adrenaline rush when wake up:shadewink: if you ever watched the Matrix, when Neo jump from the rooftop and falling.)

---

This makes me laugh because I can totally relate. I have the ability to fly however i want. That can be from Superman to Magneto to levitating upside down, but one of my best experiences was diving into the ocean from hundreds of feet up and just experiencing free fall. I also teleported way up in the sky and then again and again to drive the point of way up in the sky and then just went limp and let gravity take me. Total rush!!! I also some times flap like a duck for fun.

Ah yes.....nothing like an occasional flight of fancy. :nodyes:

I have found of late, though, that I am looking less and less for flight time and more toward working with the dream. I guess I really am getting old. :)

I think that when we recognize the dream state images as illusory and subtly blend with them, judiciously redirecting and managing the dream plot, we can become one with the complex and intricately patterned weave that is on the back side of the tapestry of our existence.

The transformative changes in our waking lives from this are subtle but they manifest at a very deep level.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sivason

This makes me laugh because I can totally relate.

---

Right! I think that is possible because of our body response to certain stimulus, like dangerous situation. Our Flight or Fight system activating and release an unhealthy;) dose of adrenaline.

Quote:

---

I have the ability to fly however i want. That can be from Superman to Magneto to levitating upside down, but one of my best experiences was diving into the ocean from hundreds of feet up and just experiencing free fall. I also teleported way up in the sky and then again and again to drive the point of way up in the sky and then just went limp and let gravity take me. Total rush!!! I also some times flap like a duck for fun.

---

I had a similar experience with ocean diving, It was WILD and I was at marine bay, I was preparing to jump into water, but I hate not able to see through the water(had some troubles with sharks and crocodiles:D), so I was in bit of dilemma, but then someone push on my back(maybe it was a DC) and I fall into the water, but I was sinking like a rock and I was about to hit the bottom, my logic gone upside down, I bursted from like a water bubble and I was in the sky, free falling and flapping like a duck, maybe I was screaming too XD aaaAAAa, only a hundreds meters later to fall again into the ocean, definitely someone was laughing from somewhere.

I posted before in a thread how to restart a dream, just try to fall backwards and let go to gravity, when your head hit the floor, dream restart in another location and I can say that sometimes those other locations can be mystical.:alien: But to further expand my example, sometimes I create a Lava pit, falling backwards, letting go of Fear and Ego, I feel a heat all over my body, melting until dream body completely dissolved, I always end up in the astral :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by michael79

I posted before in a thread how to restart a dream, just try to fall backwards and let go to gravity, when your head hit the floor, dream restart in another location and I can say that sometimes those other locations can be mystical.:alien: But to further expand my example, sometimes I create a Lava pit, falling backwards, letting go of Fear and Ego, I feel a heat all over my body, melting until dream body completely dissolved, I always end up in the astral :)

---

Wow! I have been at this long enough I rarely hear anything new. This is nothing I have heard or thought of. It makes sense. I will try it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by michael79

sometimes I create a Lava pit, falling backwards, letting go of Fear and Ego, I feel a heat all over my body, melting until dream body completely dissolved, I always end up in the astral :)

---

The dissolution of the body is always a very good thing.

Coarse Body -----> Subtle Body -----> Very Subtle Body (Dream Body) -----> :flyaway:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sivason

Wow! I have been at this long enough I rarely hear anything new. This is nothing I have heard or thought of. It makes sense. I will try it.

---

When you try it, maybe you can post it here.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sageous

Flying is a near perfect expression of freedom

---

I soared gloriously through the void last night, twisting and turning, tumbling and free-falling through a blackness that felt like pure, un-reflected light. I ended up back in my bed where I put fingers through both palms....just for good measure. Then I proceeded through four different dream sequences, each of which left me back in my bed with an important image.

I only say all that because these nights happen almost naturally now. I have not used a classic induction technique in months. Last night, though, I got up after four hours and ran through an abbreviated Tsa Lung Trulkhor followed by a very strong thirteen breath Inner Fire (Tummo) meditation.

I have been building my lucid mansion from the bottom up....and it's getting pretty comfortable now. :)

So very well done! And very inspiring that consistency and determination has lead to consistent, fabulous results, particularly for those of us farther along the age spectrum!

I have been away from the forum for quite a while on a bit of a personal deeper dive into the dream.

I am approaching my 70th birthday in a couple of months and that will also be the third anniversary of the spontaneous lucid dream that started me on this path. Since then I have worked every single day and night at understanding the workings of the dream state...and how to use conscious awareness in the dream to better understand this universe in which we live. It been an exciting and transcendent journey.

In the process I have slowly awakened. :)

These nights I have stopped flying about and such and I have contented myself with being equally conscious and aware in both states. That transition kind of snuck up on me over the last six months. I began to realize that I was waking in the night from clear and aware dreams and opening my eyes...into another dream. I also realized that I no longer needed LD techniques to be self-aware in the dream. My nighttime dreams had become an extension of my daytime self.

This sense of reciprocity between the dream state and the waking state has allowed me to realize that both states are conventionally real while being ultimately illusory. That realization of the fundamental illusory nature of reality has allowed me to make substantive changes to who I am and how I live my life by controlling these dreams in a more subtle self-reflective and deterministic way.

I can't wait to see what else there is to learn........

I am 70 but I've been lucid dreaming all my life I've been controlling all my dreams since i was about 12 and imagining/ constructing my nightly dreamscapes since i was about 13 I started so early that I cant help much with techniques etc I just fal asleep, enter my dream worlds and go from there
I don't have dreams where i am not fully conscious that I am dreaming
BUT in my experience it's like all things.
The younger you begin the easier it is.
As a young person it was all new and exciting. As a child it was the one part of my life i had total control over, and freedom in.
when I gained independence and adult responsibilities, it faded a little because I had lots of interesting things happening in my waking life, but once i retired it came back strongly.
I was a child in the fifties and a teenager in the 60s so had to teach myself everything
Not sure if it easier or more difficult now that there are sites al over the internet on the abilty
id recommend 3 basic things
Getting more sleep than you need. Its easier to remember dreams when you are lightly sleeping after a good night's rest. Thus it's more common for children and retired folk to lucid dream.
Working people parents etc are often too tired to remember their dreams The y sleep deeply but for a shorter period
Either keep a dream journal or talk about your dreams a lot. This keeps them in your subconscious mind
Use reality checkers every day while awake You will begin using them in dreams and this helps you realise it is a dream Then you just have to discip0line your mind to take control and not to wake up.
Good luck with it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mr walker

I am 70 but I've been lucid dreaming all my life I've been controlling all my dreams since i was about 12 and imagining/ constructing my nightly dreamscapes since i was about 13 I started so early

---

What a fantastic post....absolutely filled with excellent information to help folks achieve what came naturally for you....even at an older age.

I'll be 70 as well in a month or so and this came naturally to me as well.......starting three years ago. :chuckle:

I am no longer worrying about LD technique and I am conscious and aware in pretty much every dream now. I take what I can get from these dreams but I am finding the liminal spaced between dreams to be of particular interest. I will underline what you mentioned about sleep. I still work a 50 hour week but I am in bed early every night and I sleep very well.

Thanks for posting @mr walker !

I have come to the realization that the dream state is just as real as the waking state......and the waking state is just as illusory as the dream state.

I exist now in that unbroken continuity.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lenscaper

I have come to the realization that the dream state is just as real as the waking state......and the waking state is just as illusory as the dream state.

I exist now in that unbroken continuity.

---

You say "unbroken", but you still experience non-continuous transition between dream and awake, don't you? Or do these states flow smoothly into one another?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Voldmer

You say "unbroken", but you still experience non-continuous transition between dream and awake, don't you? Or do these states flow smoothly into one another?

---

I am the same person in both states these days. I have been practicing sleep yoga ....I fall asleep kind of bathed in a clear light. Dreams come and I enter them calmly, observing and taking part where it feels right. I always wake up smiling.

It is as if I have added hours to my life every night...although time and space are irrelavent.

I have realized that the goal is to achieve lucidity in the waking dream. The sleeping dream is just a means to that end.

As I approach the four year anniversary of that first accidental lucid dream that changed my life......I find myself to be a bit introspective of the journey. It seems as though I was shown this path back in early February of 2019 and since then I have followed it onto other even more powerful paths. Throughout this journey lucid dreaming has been the engine that has driven a transformation.

I no longer practice any LD techniques. I have drifted away from the Dream Yoga and Sleep Yoga protocols as well, as I find myself simply living in that unbroken continuity. All that said, I live a fully functional existence working a 50 hour week where I am in continual contact with folks across the country and I'm actually much better at it now. Through it all I know for certain that I am living in an illusory state. One might call that a dream state but I have, it seems, gone beyond the dream.

Beyond the dream there are amazing vistas of "reality". Don't be afraid to peek around those corners when you find them.