The Irony of Dreams

[toshirozawa]

Is it not ironic that our most beautiful dreams are mere reminders of what we do not have.

[Khaz]

Life is full of irony, my friend....

[Leo Volont]

Originally posted by toshirozawa Is it not ironic that our most beautiful dreams are mere reminders of what we do not have. Huh? Again, what we have here is an instance of a Spiritualist being raped over by Materialist philosophy. Why would somebody who has complete suggective possession of a pleasure or an attribute within a dream, be so entirely dejected upon awakening with the insistent conviction that they are absolutely alienated from their own Dreaming. This has got to be Materialism at work. We have the Materialist Community chanting in unison "Your Dreams are not Real". Fine. It is wonderful when people write in to complain that their own inner lives count for nothing. Well, if you feel that way, then you are probably right.

[Alucinor Architecton]

Well, what in our most beautiful dreams CAN we have in waking life? Leo, if you will . . .

[toshirozawa]

Originally posted by Leo Volont Huh? Again, what we have here is an instance of a Spiritualist being raped over by Materialist philosophy. Why would somebody who has complete suggective possession of a pleasure or an attribute within a dream, be so entirely dejected upon awakening with the insistent conviction that they are absolutely alienated from their own Dreaming. This has got to be Materialism at work. We have the Materialist Community chanting in unison \"Your Dreams are not Real\". Fine. It is wonderful when people write in to complain that their own inner lives count for nothing. Well, if you feel that way, then you are probably right. I do not understand how you would, in any way, gather materialist philosophy from my statement. I am just baffled by your hastly and childish assumptions. I have only seen about 4 of your posts and already your vile, arrogant, and hostile attitude is extremely repulsive. It's because of people like you why our world is filled with war and hate, and ultimately the reason leading to the destruction of our species.

[Leo Volont]

Originally posted by toshirozawa I do not understand how you would, in any way, gather materialist philosophy from my statement. I am just baffled by your hastly and childish assumptions. I have only seen about 4 of your posts and already your vile, arrogant, and hostile attitude is extremely repulsive. It's because of people like you why our world is filled with war and hate, and ultimately the reason leading to the destruction of our species. Well, lets look. Did you not equate dreams to meaningless nothingness. You insist that when you awake from a dream you are left with nothing. Sounds Materialistic to me. A Spiritualist would insist that the Dreams are retained -- the Victories won stay won, the Knowledge attained still luminous in their Wisdom. So, anyway, if you are honestly puzzled about my suggestion of materialism, and since you are the one complaining of some existential angst, or whatever, then perhaps instead of arguing, you might take the criticism constructively and wonder to yourself whether it is an unintended Materialistic Orientation in your Thinking and Feeling which has predisposed you to your Depression upon awakening which would not inflict you if you were a bit better trained, mentally, in Spirituality. After all, notice that Nirvana Starseed, as one example, does not write in bemoaning the Material Unreality of his Dreams.

[kafine]

I think dreams are something great we have in themselves. If they show us what we have not got, at least we get to have it for a short time. We have got what's in our dreams, because well, it's in our dreams. I don't think it's really worth arguing over, either.

[Night Wolf]

Leo, how can you say that the idea of Love (as just one example) is a materialistic one? If we are to awake from a dream that involves strong feelings towards another, to only realise that it was only a dream, can we not feel sorrow? Can it not be reminder to us of that which we most want? To say that awakening from such a dream with a feeling other than contentment is wrong, then what have we to learn? Your complete disregard for the meaning which we give our dreams astounds me, as you obviously consider your own views much higher than most. Realise that people can have real emotions and that it is NOT wrong to do so. Our feelings are a guide to how we live our life, whether it be influenced by our dreams or our waking life. They are incredibly important, and you are dismissing them as if they were nothing. Show a little humanity.

[Khaz]

Okaaaay.... I read Leo's posts, and I read toshirozawa's response... You both sound immature to me at the moment, and I have lost some respect for both of you. Still, as that has nothing to do with the topic, I shant beat you both over the head with it. I agree with Night Wolf's last post, and I figure that's about all I need to say.

[marcofto]

irony .................................................. ...................................... In the spritual world Materia; things are realy imaterial . No macy D`s or Plasma TV`s on the other side . Next time you visi the other side in a lucid state try to turn on a TV you may find this very difficult. And the signs say long haired freeky people need not apply

[toshirozawa]

Originally posted by Night Wolf Leo, how can you say that the idea of Love (as just one example) is a materialistic one? If we are to awake from a dream that involves strong feelings towards another, to only realise that it was only a dream, can we not feel sorrow? Can it not be reminder to us of that which we most want? To say that awakening from such a dream with a feeling other than contentment is wrong, then what have we to learn? I'm glad that Night Wolf truly understood what I meant.

[Neruo]

Hmm, well but ofcourse. Nice is what we not have and want. If we would had it it wouldn't be as beautiful and thus not as ironic =)

[toshirozawa]

Originally posted by Neruo If we would have it it wouldn't be as beautiful and thus not as ironic =) I like that thought; the most beautiful things only exist in our minds.

[clockworkoranges16]

Why is it everything breif, poetic, and beautiful, becomes over-analyzed, criticized and reevaluated to the point that it ends up tasting like cheap perfume as repelling as it is potent?

[Genjyo]

Dreams may leave an impression too haunting to escape. Learning from the past equips us for the future. One beauty of dreams is reliving happy times and better yet, with lucidity, going into new directions! In one of my first lucid dreams I was able to appreciate life and all its colors and aromas. Ironic, since real life is the source of it.

[djaio]

dammit Leo, shut up already.

[CowMan339]

Quote by nightwolf- "Leo, how can you say that the idea of Love (as just one example) is a materialistic one? If we are to awake from a dream that involves strong feelings towards another, to only realise that it was only a dream, can we not feel sorrow? Can it not be reminder to us of that which we most want? To say that awakening from such a dream with a feeling other than contentment is wrong, then what have we to learn? Your complete disregard for the meaning which we give our dreams astounds me, as you obviously consider your own views much higher than most. Realise that people can have real emotions and that it is NOT wrong to do so. Our feelings are a guide to how we live our life, whether it be influenced by our dreams or our waking life. They are incredibly important, and you are dismissing them as if they were nothing. Show a little humanity." Only a dream, you say? what is this only? it has every bit of reality that Our Reality has

[Night Wolf]

Originally posted by CowMan339 Only a dream, you say? what is this only? it has every bit of reality that Our Reality has So you think that your own DC's have their own feelings and actions and can make decisions? They ARE you. There are so many things about dreams that do NOT have "every bit of reality that Our Reality has." Both dreams and waking life are only real as long as they last, but if you were to ask to somebody to choose between the reality of a dream and the reality of life, then I think you would be surpirsed by the number of people that would say life. With relation to what I was saying ealier about waking from dreams of love, the 'human' contact we receive in our dreams is by no means equal to the relationships we hold when awake. Well, that's just my opinion anyway. Maybe I'm conditioned that way. You should watch Vanilla Sky if you haven't already.

[toshirozawa]

Originally posted by Night Wolf You should watch Vanilla Sky if you haven't already. I will get it tonight, thanks.

[ladylazarus]

We have the Materialist Community chanting in unison \"Your Dreams are not Real\".[/b] I consider dreams to be perfectly real, and I'm also a materialist.

[Khaz]

Originally posted by ladylazarus I consider dreams to be perfectly real, and I'm also a materialist. Oi. "Real" is SUCH a vague term when just used like, "Dreams are real."

[toshirozawa]

I feel that dreams may be as real as you wish to the individual, but the most beautiful dreams, whether it be in a materialistic form or a spiritual one (as in my case), they show us what could be real, and it is in this realization that makes it ever so painful.