For those Christian dreamers....

[3rdCrow]

I wonder if what we do in our dreams or what we make of it will be tried on judgment day. If our entire life is to be brought up and viewed by everyone, will our dreams also be brought up and viewed....hmmm......

[Barbizzle]

Well, I am not a Christian, not even a believer in God, but I beleive that dreams are the ultimate test of your morrals. You can do what ever you want with no consquences. What you do in your dreams tells you what type of person you realy are deep inside.

[JSmithPI]

It's a question I've thought about before. I'm positive that non-LDs have no place in judgment, as we are passive observers in standard dreams. Therefore, we're no more responsible for what we witness in a non-LD than for what we read about in the Metro section of the newspaper. If you do something in an LD you believe to be a sin, then in your own mind you have sinned, and it counts. Paul mentions this principle in the New Testament, advising us not to induce people to violate their own consciences, even if we personally see nothing wrong with a given activity. The specific example used is the issue of eating meat that had previously been sacrificed to idols. Paul's take was, if the meat was sacrificed to a false god, then who cares? However, since some people still wished to follow the old Judaic restrictions, their consciences would have been violated by eating the meat, and thus those individuals should abstain. However, his final point was actually "don't ask, don't tell." Eat what is set before you, and don't worry about false gods. Presumably, this means if you feel you can engage in activities in an LD without sinning which in real life would be wrong, your conscience is clear, like playing GTA on your computer, as an example. Ultimately, follow your conscience. Cheers, JSmithPI

[wombing]

it is what comes out of a person that defiles them, not what goes in... the same general thoughts and mindset that determine our actions in waking life determine our actions in lucid dreams. if you find yourself doing something in an LD that you wouldn't do in real life, perhaps examine the underlying cause, and take appropriate measures to change it. personally, i view lucids as the opportunity to do things i can't in real life. i feel no moral responsibility for actions there. i am my only judge. and yet, if on the odd occasion my lucid takes a sexual turn i find a woman unwilling, i can't make myself force anything. it feels to wierd and violent even knowing its a dream...

[JSmithPI]

it is what comes out of a person that defiles them, not what goes in... [/b] I agree, Asher. I thought it was interesting when you wrote: if on the odd occasion my lucid takes a sexual turn i find a woman unwilling, i can't make myself force anything. it feels to wierd and violent even knowing its a dream...[/b] I've had a few dreams where I was committing some violent act, but it never works right--when I've tried in a non-LD to hit someone, my arms move like I was moving through syrup, and there was one particularly disturbing dream where I was trying to break someone's neck, but their neck kept twisting and I couldn't kill him. JSmithPI

[wombing]

I've had a few dreams where I was committing some violent act, but it never works right--when I've tried in a non-LD to hit someone, my arms move like I was moving through syrup, and there was one particularly disturbing dream where I was trying to break someone's neck, but their neck kept twisting and I couldn't kill him. [/b] that is strange. i had a similar dream a few days ago. unfortunately i didn't write it down, so its hard to remember the details, but the general premise was the same. i've also had a dream where my brother was trying to kill me, and my only defense was a knife in my hand. i stabbed him over and over again in the neck, but it didn't seem to inflict any harm. though i suppose the fact i never inflict serious harm in dreams is a good thing. the one's where i am violent are disturbing enough without actually being able to snap someone's neck, or stab my brother to death..

[JSmithPI]

i suppose the fact i never inflict serious harm in dreams is a good thing[/b] Heh, I used to wonder if my subconscious maintained rules in my sleep, and I couldn't do anything in a dream I wouldn't do in waking life. --governed, of course, by the circumstances of the dream, like self-defense or something. I've often read people can't be hypnotized do to things that violate their moral sense. I wonder how much dreams are like that.

[mongreloctopus]

Originally posted by JSmithPI I've had a few dreams where I was committing some violent act, but it never works right That's interesting...In my latest lucid dream which happened yesterday, someone had me in a headlock and I became lucid about thirty seconds thereafter. I may have overindulged myself a little in the sudden onset of total power and decided to punish the headlocker, so I stuck my hand in his mouth and ripped off his head. Everything went as I would've expected, minus the gore, but immediately thereafter the dream fell apart and I woke up. I have no doubt that the dream ended as a result of my dream-murder...But I'm not sure why--I was totally aware that it was not true murder, and was more a flexing of the pyschic muscle.

[vhrocker]

I also am a christian, I think regular dreams wont be judge because you have no control over what it is(usually), but lucid dreaming im told is just like reality but with no limits. You are aware of what you are doing and know whats wrong and right so I tihnk you would be judged. But thats just my opinion.

[trailMagic]

Originally posted by JSmithPI I'm positive that non-LDs have no place in judgment, as we are passive observers in standard dreams. Interesting. Since I don't believe in free will, I believe that we are 'observers' in our normal daytime life as well. And yet, I believe that it is appropriate that we be held accountable for our actions. So I guess I don't have any problem with a person being held accountable for their dreams.

[TygrHawk]

Originally posted by psycofirek I can't speak for sure but I'd say it's pretty likely that we'll be judged on all our deeds, whether in a LD or in the real world. In my opinion, nothing we do in a dream, lucid or not, is a "deed". It is simply a thought, completely self-contained, that affects nobody else. That doesn't mean that I'm an advocate of violence or anything like that in lucid dreams -- quite the opposite. But I simply don't believe that anything that happens in a dream could be construed as a "sin". Of course, that may be largely because I'm not too religious in the first place. My only real "belief system" is the Golden Rule. If you do your best to treat other people well, then I think you are a good person, and you won't have to worry about "judgement", or whatever happens after you die. I know that lot of people disagree with that point of view, and I'm not saying their opinions are any less valid than mine -- just wanted to throw in my $.02.

[nesgirl119]

Originally posted by 3rdCrow I wonder if what we do in our dreams or what we make of it will be tried on judgment day. If our entire life is to be brought up and viewed by everyone, will our dreams also be brought up and viewed....hmmm...... Well, I kind of think so... My base religion is not Christian, but we do focus on the bible a little, but mostly on the Indians of North America BC. Anyways, I think what we do in our dreams can make us act in our true forms in real time, and that is what we can get judged for. For example, I hate it when guys touch me in real time, and tend to whack them if they do so. In my dreams, I have a Nintendo Machine Gun I blast the guy DCs w/in there. Hence it reflects upon my feelings of a guy's touch in real time. With certain acts, like Committing adultry, or maybe not abiding by the Sunday law, I think we do get judged for stuff like that. I am not allowed to do things in my Dreams on Sundays I would normally not be allowed to do on Sundays (luckily, there is nothing against sleeping all day, and speeding up the LD time dial), or I am not allowed inside the Temple on Tuesday (Temples, according to Crescent Viewans, are serving others, in addition to getting completely healed of our stress while we are in there). Other than that, no, b/c wouldn't it be silly to judge someone (LDing) for mopping the floor w/your reflection, and having multiple arms in reflection? Too Silly!!

[goku4ever]

Well after reading these posts, I have to say I havent a flipping clue. On the one hand there are no consenquences to our actions in a LD,so technically there isnt anything wrong with commiting sins, as they arent really sins. However on the other hand the bible quote about the not commiting adultery, seemed pretty relevant here, saying for us, that we shouldnt commit adultery, but to lust after someone married as well is also adultery in our heart, meaning we have committed a sin, even though no one has been harmed. Make what you will of it, I'm not even sure how we can be judged on our actions if we dont know if what we are doing is right or wrong.

[3rdCrow]

wow...thnx everyone for your opinions. I really didn't expect to get so many viewpoints. I think the main factor is morals, everyone has their own view point and religion which can be clearly seen by all the responses. As for answers in the bible..i will keep on looking and i'll even discuss the topic with my parish priest, hopefully he will have some answers of what the church teaches on this.... Thnx again, 3rdCrow

[wombing]

hey 3rd crow, if you're looking for scriptures there is one in proverbs (?) which is relevant. "as a man thinketh, so he becomes" what are lucid dreams but thought? our desires made self-evident.

[dreamtamer007]

Originally posted by 3rdCrow I wonder if what we do in our dreams or what we make of it will be tried on judgment day. If our entire life is to be brought up and viewed by everyone, will our dreams also be brought up and viewed....hmmm...... As Christians our sins are forgiven and god will remember them no more. All interesting points. I would tend to wonder on what level of lucidity one is presently involved in. If a non LD is like reading and observing a news paper and a LD is like actually being who the news is about then its about being somewhere between observing and participating. In the real world thoughts is participation in the mind, intent; in a dream it is supposed to be in the mind also. I am not going to form a conclusive opinion just yet but will be open to the scriptures and prayer to find the answer for myself. I think a third confirmation in our case would be to summand the counsel of a wise Dream Guide.

[Amethyst Star]

I think another good verse to dwell on would be "Take every thought captive to the obedience of Christ." Going back to the passage in Matthew where it talks about how a man can commit murder or adultery in his mind, there is a separation between stray thoughts and thoughts that we choose to dwell on. Since we are born with a sin nature those stray thoughts are liable to come up at any time, but if we choose to change and dwell on something else then we have not sinned. It's when you choose to continue to imagine these things that it becomes wrong. I agree with what has been said about non-LDs, but keep in mind that they can be a good indication of what may be going on in your life. While oftentimes a dream may just come out of nowhere, they can also show us the kinds of temptations we could be particularly vulnerable to or are struggling with. So, I wouldn't dwell on them too much, but if you see a pattern emerging, it can't hurt to think about what's going on in your waking life. As for violent dreams, I have occasionally kicked the crap out of people, but only if they're a bad guy. However, I usually feel bad afterwards and try to remedy the situation. One time I went to get the guy some asprin but I woke up before I could get it. -Amé

[wombing]

As for violent dreams, I have occasionally kicked the crap out of people, but only if they're a bad guy. However, I usually feel bad afterwards and try to remedy the situation. One time I went to get the guy some asprin but I woke up before I could get it. [/b] *laughs*

[3rdCrow]

Ha Ha....i found in the bible (finally) all of the verses which contain or mention dreams. These are the one's i've found so far, but i'll still keep on looking. Some of these stories most of you have already read or know about....so anyways here they are. Check out Mt 1:20 Mt chapter 2 Mt 27:19 Acts 10:9 Acts 26:9 and finally Daniel chapter 5 finally.....

[3rdCrow]

Oh, i also forgott to post (or maybe i already did) but i asked my local parish priest when in confession, if the church had any official teachings on dreams, he said he didn't know right off the bat and he also recomended that i read the most recently updated version of the catechism (which i havn't been able to do...yet) But what he did tell me is that whatever we dream, lucid or not, is still just a thought, even though it seems so real. And also that, even as just thoughts, they influence our actions wether we notice it or not. So we need to be carefull of what we choose to think of, and in this case, choose to dream of, because thoughts lead to action, and if that thought is sinfull then it will produce a sinfull action the more likely we are to dwell on it. basically what Amethyst Star was saying. Originally posted by Asher It is what comes out of a person that defiles them, not what goes in... I think it's actually the other way around. Our eye's are our windows to our soul's and what we allow into our mind(i.e.- horror movies, pornography, etc.) is what defiles it and corrupts it. Garbage in, Garbage out....

[freefall]

Would be inclined to agree with all about the non-LD judgement. I have begun to take a more constructive aproach to my Lucid dreams. I do think and am aware that their are LD's that i have had in which i acted in a manner i would not normally act. I think to find peace in ourselves and with those around us we need to find a balance. That is , what the world sees is whats going on in your heart and mind too. At times i have had an outward appearance to others that may not have neccessarily been wha t was going on upsatirs. Just on a side note, whether it was my Psyche or something more, in one LD a few months back, i focusd my thoughts on having a spiritual encounter, meeting with a higher being. What i got was the most intense sun set that i have ever seen, the most amazing sight. I stood for about 5 minutes just watching, awed by my surroundings and the feeling of a presence. That said, less trying to get jiggy, and more exploring for me!

[3rdCrow]

Originally posted by freefall Just on a side note, whether it was my Psyche or something more, in one LD a few months back, i focusd my thoughts on having a spiritual encounter, meeting with a higher being. What i got was the most intense sun set that i have ever seen, the most amazing sight. I stood for about 5 minutes just watching, awed by my surroundings and the feeling of a presence. That was my original plan when i started getting seriosus with LD, i always imagined that i would sit down w/ God at a table and just talk about anything, not that we don't get that chance already..i just mean, when i see him as if looking at him. Anyways, but from then on i've been adding on more reasons to my cause for LD. In my past as a kid, i just noticed that i used to accomplish WILD's every night, i just didn't know that's what was going on. Serisously, the only thing i didn't keep going was the conciousness before you enter the dream. I would see all the sights and colors and sounds perfeclty, but would go unconcious....I just wanted to make a note of that..... thnx again everyone for your "two cents"...lol. I like that phrase....