Is schizophrenia a dream?

[Mystic]

G'day every one, just a few thoughts for my first post. Well where do I start, I have lodes of ideas & questions to put out there. Potentially the moste important question I have is has anyone looked at the possible parallels between the dreaming mined & schizophrenia? My brother suffers from it and many of his dlusions bear a striking resembance to typical dream narratives. Could it be that schizophrenia is a waking mind continually dreaming? I would love to hear from anyone in psychiatry on this one, well from anyone realy. And how about dream "artefacts"? I found that after a very unusual L.D. I could make my skin turn to goose bumps at will regardless of the temerature, and for a long time just on one side of my body. How about you? I will post that dream in a little while. I have some other ideas but that's enough for now, let me know what you think.

[R.Carter]

Perhaps schizophrenia is the minds inability to distinguish between the waking world and the subconcious stream. If the person couldn't tell the two apart they could perceive a random thought as solid fact, where another would recognize it as the day dream it is. Consider acting upon all the thoughts in your imagination with the same conviction as you would the input you actually receive from the physical world?

[Gwendolyn]

I have a schizophrenic uncle, and I do have to say, this theory sounds pretty plausable. I think it may be that the afflicted individuals have disconnected themselves so much from the consentual reality that they have truly given in to their dreams, fears and hopes, as if they were the center of this reality and no one else was aware of it. I mean, perhaps they have let their lives become a sort of waking dream.....

[cybereality]

I believe that theory may hold some truth. If you think about it, what is a dream? A detatchment from reality. While you are in a dream, you are in a state of suspended disbelief of your reality. It is entirely possible that the mind of a schizophrenic develops this behavior in thier waking life. In this way the brains "reality simulator" will be less prone to reality checking and go off on its own tangents. But everyones conscious experience is personal and relative to their subjective point of view. Who is to say that your brother's perception of reality is any less valid than yours or mine? // cybereality

[Mystic]

G’day cybereality, you get my point about the waking mind continually dreaming but as for “the validity of his perceptions”????? I guess you need to look at it in two ways, but first let me pose a question. If his delusions lead him to stand in the path of a train bealeving the aproching light is the Holy Spirit come to anoint him the new messiah, how valid is that? You can see the two subjective points of view at work here but at the end of the day I think the train’s point of view will win hands down. I appreciate your point of not dismissing his subjective experience. Iv seen how TJ’s convoluted perceptions of the would are often “constructed” to help him cope with reality. A bit like a carrot on the end of a stick, promising much and delivering … more promises. Sadly in TJ’s case the carrot isn’t really there. The thing is you need to understand as best you can their point of view but you can’t afford to ignore the balance between delusion and reality. Thanks for all your input , it is appreciated.

[Leo Volont]

Originally posted by Mystic G'day every one, just a few thoughts for my first post. * Well where do I start, I have lodes of ideas & questions to put out there. Potentially the moste important question I have is has anyone looked at the possible parallels between the dreaming mined & schizophrenia? * My brother suffers from it and many of his dlusions bear a striking resembance to typical dream narratives. Could it be that schizophrenia is a waking mind continually dreaming? * I would love to hear from anyone in psychiatry on this one, well from anyone realy. * And how about dream "artefacts"? I found that after a very unusual L.D. I could make my skin turn to goose bumps at will regardless of the temerature, and for a long time just on one side of my body. How about you? I will post that dream in a little while. * I have some other ideas but that's enough for now, let me know what you think. * Yes. One of the Great Pioneers of Astral Projection, Oliver Fox, noticed that the Astral World was not quite the same as the Objective Physical World -- all of the basic objects were there, but these objects could acquire a Subjective Augmentation. In the Astral, Subjectivity could project a veil over the objective realities. It may be that Schizophrenics do not live in the Objective World, but are up into the phase of Astral Perceptions. They have the objective details we experience, but they have that super-imposition of subjective content layered upon it.

[Canon]

Great post!...in a way, actually delusions and the like go on in a slightly slower brainwave rate. In fact once there was a man who was schizophrenic and trained himself to know what was real and what wasnt. Could probably be possible to be able to control them, like in lucid dreaming.

[skippy]

This is a really interesting subject. Having worked in psychiatry for some time, I agree that for many people with schizophrenia, experiencing psychotic symptoms is in fact very much like the dreaming experience. However I don't know enough about neuroanatomy to give any clear answers. In a nutshell, schizophrenia is a loss of touch with reality. With therapy (i.e. cogntive behavioural therapy) some people with schizophrenia can learn to distinguish between what is real and what isn't. In some cases this can stop their hallucinations/delusionional ideas or can at least make people more able to cope with them. The techniques used are similar to the way in which lucid dreamers look for indications of dreams, and challenge their perception of reality. I shall definitely be thinking about this some more and will get back with any ideas.

[cybereality]

Mystic, I would be very interested to hear exactly what symptom's your brother is experiencing. I actually had a cousin (a few years older) who, by medical standards, would be classified as schizophrenic. At the time he was addicted to some serious drugs and these might have induced the delusions. He claimed that he was constantly being followed by undercover cops and even knew some of their names. Because of this he fled the country. A little while after that he died in a freak accident getting hit by a train (ironic you would mention that). Then about a year later literally 50 cops storm into my parent's house looking for him. My folks told the police he had died, but they didn't believe them. I am not sure there is a connection, but it seems rather suspicious. Maybe he wasn't as crazy as everyone thought? I dont believe that science can even begin to explain the brain (at this point in time) and what we do know is shoddy and incomplete. I have a little theory that many people are mis-diagnosed with mental disorders, simply due to the fact that the doctors dont understand what is going on. Just look at the high percentages of kids that supposedly have ADD. In actuality, we may be locking up our contemporary prophets, the ones anointed by god to deliver his message (if you believe that type of stuff). It is also possible your brother is tapped into a higher level of reality or able to see and hear the quantum superposition of parallel universes... or he might be legitimately crazy. I couldn't really say without meeting him. I would suggest you find him a good shrink or maybe try some alternative medicine. The drugs they're giving out nowadays can have some serious side-effects, so I would be cautious. // cybereality