The perfect dream machine.......

[jonesn]

This is my 1st post here, and I just have to say this place looks fantastic. Good job kids Ok, this is more of a theoretical question about human behavior than about the specific technology itself, but how do you think society will accept and adapt to a LDAS (lucid dream assistance system) that was so efficient and effective that anyone could have a lucid dream whenever they wanted? The issue I personally think is most important is the inherent responsibilites, such as introspection and patience, that one must address from learning lucidity themselves. Could these elements of behavior allow the dreamer to appreciate what they accomplished and not take the experience for granted? In this case we would assume that the LDAS made lucidity so readily available to the dreamer that almost no effort was required, so they could shortcut due dilligence. An analogy could be happiness: an event or decision can make one happy naturally while a pill can make one happy artifically. The end result is the same, so the person may be indifferent to the potential consequences. I don't mean to sound cynical towards technology, it's just that I feel it should be reviewed with a slightly discriminating eye considering the capacity of such a thing to influence ones perception of life. Lucidity is a very powerful ability to posses, especially when it's part of your everyday ritual. FYI, I'm working on such a system

[wombing]

it'd be great if you shared the basics of your fledgling system (unless it's still classified )...if you can divulge, does it incorporate light, sound, tactile sensations...something else? it's hard to say what the implications of such an "automatic" inducer would have on society. on the one hand, perhaps it would allow some to purge themselves of certain anti-social tendencies while dreaming...or perhaps just reinforce and feed them. it would likely depend on the person. i was discussing essentially the same thing the other day....a fully submersive virtual reality system, and how it would influence people. and what is lucid dreaming but virtual reality? as far as the patience and introspection you mentioned (which are indeed crucial to learning LDing), it would seem they would still be neccessary to some degree even with an aid.. after all, for many, staying lucid takes as much effort as becoming lucid. unless your system could somehow maintain lucidity without effort, i doubt most people would bother with it.

[jonesn]

Sorry, all my research remains private Good points though

[wombing]

Sorry, all my research remains private * [/b] figured as much.. good luck with your project...when you strike a goldmine and mass-production starts to satisfy the masses, maybe you could slip me a system for free oh, and i forgot to welcome you...so, uh, welcome

[jonesn]

Originally posted by wombing Sorry, all my research remains private * figured as much.. good luck with your project...when you strike a goldmine and mass-production starts to satisfy the masses, maybe you could slip me a system for free oh, and i forgot to welcome you...so, uh, welcome [/b] Thanks The system is in the "lab prototype" stage right now and may take a bit while longer to fine tune.

[Distant Clone]

Let me offer some opposing angles, not necessarily that I agree with them.[list]

[Gwendolyn]

Welcome to the forum. It's wonderful to have you with us. I hope that you learn a lot from us while you are with our forum. Have fun.

[Crow]

Welcome jonesm, you've found the best Lucid Dreaming site on the net! And an interesting question you raise. I like the idea of epidemic lucid dreaming a lot. Society would certainly be affected if everybody started lucid dreaming all the time. I posted on the topic "money" a couple of days ago explaining why I thought shortcutting to full-on regular Lding was a bad idea, but that's a side issue really that deals with personal development of the individual. Your specific question: how do you think society will accept and adapt to a LDAS (lucid dream assistance system) that was so efficient and effective that anyone could have a lucid dream whenever they wanted[/b] immediately makes me think about how it would be implemented and controlled. Also, the question of who would actually "subscribe" comes to mind. It is difficult to imagine certain institutions condoning it's regular use because of the various moral issues raised. Resistance might also come from extremist positions of religion, psychiatry, psychology and so on. Different people use lucid dreaming for different reasons, and in very different ways (as you've no doubt gleaned from this website) so it's hard to guess what all those people out there would be doing in their lucid dreams every night. Actually, wow. Serial killers, trash collectors, shoe salesmen, soldiers, artists, check out girls, company directors, scientists, entertainers, hippies, racist thugs, little old grannies, heavy drug users, pregnant mums-to-be, AIDS victims etc etc. The possible LD'ers are endless, and the possible LDs are beyond your imagination, and yet, who do you think would actually use the device? Most people watch TV every night and, through doing so, have changed society in various ways over the years. Wars have been won and lost on TV and popular culture has been hugely influenced by the device in incalcuable ways. Resistance was virtually non-existent from the start and society soon "adapted" to it. My personal opinion is that TV has a mostly negative effect on society, and is generally a bad thing. Your LDing device would surely do a lot more for society than TV has done for past 50 years. Hands up who'd rather stare at a piece of glowing furniture every night than experience the boundless manifestation of their own imagination?

[[Alpha]-0mega-]

I have to agree, some equipment might be BEAUTIFUL, and might be the ULTIMATE of it's kind or in a specific genre, but really. This is one of those things you have to KNOW about to buy. I doubt it that MANY out-siders will use this. (Many as in, the major % of the population). They'll (most probably) go like.. "Lucid Dreaming? Puh, what kind of crazy stuff is this.) ANd just go on with their daily routine. However there's probably a big enough group to get quite a profit (if the thing is cheap to mass-produce). However, if you build a device, and want to sell it, you can't just ''1 2 3'' sell it across the world.

[jonesn]

I agree that, if this system becomes a reality, the premeir demographic of buyers would be very selective (ie 18-30 years old, interests in technology/games, smart enough to grasp concept of lucidity, etc) and I plan to focus the start-up that way. On the same token, look at any genuinely new product and how it is only initially accepted by the "first quarter of the bell curve". The difference is how you market it. The news of such a system could spread easily via internet outlets and word-of-mouth, on top of formal media coverage. The fact that it would have an underground following in the beginning only adds to its mystique for others to catch interest later on.

[PenguinLord13]

I have to agree with Crow. While I admit I do watch TV, and stuff, I do agree it has a pretty negative impact on us. This machine could be misused in the most horrible ways, but then again games just as violent are already on the market, and for example serial killers, who would use it to practice killing, could almost just as well do that with video game these days. I don't think it takes out all the introspection and patience, etc. because a machine like this would be useless if you don't have recall, which while not being as hard, unless you work at it really hard, it's pretty difficult to get good at. While I would consider it, I don't know if I personally would buy it as I don't believe in using outside "ingredients" (drugs, REM masks, etc.) for Lucid Dreaming, with food (not unhealthy), being an exception. There would still be a good audience for it if you succeeded in creating a revolutionary piece of technology like this.

[Seeker]

Sounds quite interesting. You asked the question about people really appreciating the technology and taking it for granted? Look at what has happened with all new technology already. Do people really apreciate the cell phone? Think 100 years ago, could anyone imagine the ability to be in contact with anyone in the world instantly using a small device that fits in your pocket? I usually only hear complaints about dropped calls or loss of signal. I am afraid a lucid induction device would generate this same type of behavior. People, instead of appreciating the wonder of walking in new worlds will instead complain that they are having problems seducing their favorite movie star. Please keep us posted on your progress and if you need any test subjects, I'm sure many around here would be glad to volunteer.

[ignatz]

I think society would react in a similar way to an LD inducing thingie as it has to other mind-enhancing, consciousness-raising deals: It would be banned or out-lawed or marginalized as a "cult" thing. There are so many avenues available now for people to become conscious, from LD to LSD to religious practice. . . . And some people get a lot out of it, And others want to use it as a method to control other people. I'm becoming cynical in my odd-age.

[DSK123]

First Off Welcome! I think that having the machine would be great. That is coming from someone who has never experienced an LD yet. I am really into learning how to get multiple LDs a week heck even in a month I would be happy. I also think that people wouldn't appreciate Lucid Dreams as much if they could flip a switch and have it anytime they would like. This was pointed out above, some people don't want anything to do with stuff like this. I brought the subject up with a friend he was just like "eh what ever..." I tried to tell him how cool it is. I have not found a single other person I know interested in becoming Lucid. If you can say... How much would you estimate you would sell the device. If it was cheap enough that some guy with money burning a hole in his pocket who has never heard of LDs could walk up and just be like "heh do anything in my dreams when ever I want hmmm sounds cool, I'll try it." I'm sure you might find some new LDers. The current mates who are into the stuff would most likly be interested anyways. So there might be a chance of success.