Thread: CAn you learn...

Can you develop ESP through LDing?

This is more the sort of question to be asked in the "Beyond Dreaming" forum. It's controversial on the forum, but I'd give you a hearty NO. Mostly because ESP has never been shown to exist in any convincing form, anywhere. If you'd argue otherwise, get ahold of James Randi and claim your $1,000,000.

I have never heard of it, so I'll have have to say 'Probably not".

I personally believe that esp / telekenesis / all of that psychic stuff is all idiotic. If humans were psychic, chances are we'd know by now.

Originally Posted by FreshBrains

I personally believe that esp / telekenesis / all of that psychic stuff is all idiotic. If humans were psychic, chances are we'd know by now.
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Personally I believe there's much more possible with the human mind than is scientificly provable. Eventhough there is an overload of mumbo Jumbo new age overly-spiritualistic people out there.
The type of people that believe in a beautifull, spiritual, however rather unrational and unsupported, explanation of paradox and mysterious phenomena that really ARE present.
It's just that these people seem to have some irrational complete Pre-Fixed Image of How the bloody Universe and SpiritWorld works. And every extraordinairy phenomenon is seen by them as a proof of their theory.

I myself am alot into these same phenomena myself,( Dreaming/Lucid Dreaming, Hallucinations, profoundly deep meditative states of mind ) but Much more in a Humanic/Psychological/Scientific way with off course a spiritual edge. I have experienced many and severe altered States of Mind ( both Naturally and Induced by Psychedelic Mushrooms and such ) so the spirituality is a great part of me. But then more in the Emotional sense. I don't follow my heart but my mind, I don't believe that it is as I want to believe. I want to know what reality is, no matter how bizarre or plausable it seems.

So I am very sceptical yet at the same time open to new suggestions and subjects.
Just like Religion: I am not a religious person: I am not Atheistic either. I am an Agnost more something in between, a bit closer to religious perhaps, due to my high sense of Spirituality. ( as a fanatic drawer I need that sense for Inspiration )

And This additude applies for everything else in life: an open mind to whatever may be true or not.
If there are speculations about a certain extraordinairy phenomenon and here's no proof of it being true, but also no proof to 100% rule out it is true...all I can say is: ''Well let's investigate it then''

So my basic message is Don't just buy every speculation/rumour that comes from the New Age world, but don't rule out it's possibilities either. Remain Neutral.

Originally Posted by FreshBrains

I personally believe that esp / telekenesis / all of that psychic stuff is all idiotic. If humans were psychic, chances are we'd know by now.
[/b]

And by "we" you mean the people of our new little technological era, I'm assuming. Your flaw is that with the comming of science, albeit a great gain to our intelligence, we recieve losses on another end of our perceptibility. Think of it as a giant net that catches "everything" from what we can see, even though we're missing the tiny fish that slip through.

"We" are only connected to other technologically (even minimally) advanced areas of the world. The human beings that may possess small traces of esp (and I mean small) would still be living in remote and disconnected regions of the world. Have you ever notticed that a blind man can hear things better because he does not have to pay attention to the sense of sight any longer? With the world as it is today, humanity has no more need for those extra senses, no reason to pay attention to them the way they would have long in the past. We can witness these senses in animals, and I'll give you the most recent, widly known example I can think of: The south-east Adian Tsunami that hit in 2004. The native animals of the region moved away from the coastlines a good hour before it hit, when there were no humanly percievable warnings. "We" do not know how they knew in advance of the oncomming danger. And that is exactly why we lack the extra senses today: We have other methods of escaping and/or remaining safe from many dangers that we had to experience millenia in the past.

I'm not saying that the senses are completely gone, they're simply dormant.

[Edited for stupid grammar mistakes, curse the time]

i understand, i am skeptical myself about exstrasenses, but my grandma goest to one, and she told me what he said about me and it turned out to be true....

Perhaps you can develop ESP big perhaps, however LDing isnt anything mystal or related to ESP so i guess you have about as good a chance at developing ESP through LDing as you do at riding a bike

i understand, i am skeptical myself about exstrasenses, but my grandma goest to one, and she told me what he said about me and it turned out to be true....[/b]

Well, commercial psychics employ something called a "cold reading". It's why people always go, "OMG, I talked to Miss Cleo last night and she was exactly right about every little detail!"
Here's the wiki on it: Cold Readings

Basically, they observe your appearance and mannerisms to get a general idea of what you act like, then start with some general or vague questions and let you fill in the blanks for them, letting them move on to more narrow predictions.

So likely the psychic your grandma went to DID get all the details correct about you, but it was because your grandma gave him all the relevant background information and the psychic just filled in the blanks and reworded it all.

EDIT: Pulled out my description and added the wiki link, which describes the process in much clearer terms.

ok, but i am still stumped whether he is actually an extrasensist or not... i mean i do not think that background info can tell about internal stuff like emotiones or health... even if it can describe health, i do not think that he took a lucky guess...

That's why Tsen was saying that these "psychics" use many vague terms, and your own mind believes what it wants to and interprets what the 'psychic' said in words you would think to be accurate. If you want to know about someone's emotions directly though, it isn't difficult if your good at reading people. Of course, there have been numerous accounts of which I would constantly be asked "Are you alright?", "Are you ok?", just because I was thinking about something and had a blank look on my face. Turns out I felt great, I guess those people weren't very good at reading emotions, heh.

Yes. Indirectly.

Once in a Dream Vision, an Old Guru of mine told me "A few Seconds of (Kundalinin) Meditation in a Dream is worth thousands of hours of Waking Meditation".

What this translates to in practical terms is that if one can Meditate on the Energy and invoke a Self Initiation into the White Light or experience the Ecstatic Opening of one's Chakras (which in a Dream will give off Light), then one can well be on the way to developing ESP.

But remember that even in the Spiritual World, things behave Organically, that is, there would likely be an interrum period between the first openings of your Chakras and your emmersion in the White Light and any ostensive manifest Results -- it may take awhile for your Powers and Capabilities to 'grow'.

Yeah this should be moved to Beyond Dreaming.

As I see it, psychic abilities are the side effects of a healthy spirituality. There is the idea that we have six chakras along the spine that correlate with different lessons to be learned upon the spiritual path.

At the base is survival, then 1-1 (mainly sexual) relations, group relations, unconditional love, communication, and finally psychic abilities. Humans are on the third run of the ladder, the group relation part. Animals are on the second rung. With animals, they naturally travel in groups, and need to learn to break away from the flock. Humans are individualized and need to learn to expand their interests to more than just themselves. Seeing how most humans are on the third rung, it makes sense that people that work their way up to the sixth rung come few and far between.

I also see dreaming as a spiritual activity, so I think there is some correlation there. You would have to define exactly what qualifies as ESP, is it telepathy, empathy, precognition? Which ones?

My thought is "who takes drugs for their side effects"? Of course I think some illegal drugs may cause a temporary boost in spirituality, but that's a different story. If I wanted the side effects, what I would do is absorb and retain as much from the dream environment as possible. That's a vague statement though. You could meditate, take drugs, spin in circles (clockwise), breathe(inhale), get struck by lightning, or take a tantric approach. Of course, I've wondered if meditating upside down would be more effective since it's feasible in a dream environment.

Of course, if it does in fact increase psychic abilities, chances are it's going to be so small that it's negligible. You would be better off developing psychic abilities in waking life. It's going to take time regardless, they don't just arrive overnight.