The Ultimate Lucid Applications List

I found this new forum and am thinking that we should create a list (like the LD experience checklist) of all the different applications of lucid dreaming. If you suggest some, I&#39;ll just edit them into the master list, creating a good list of uses for Lucid dreaming. Note that this isn&#39;t a list of specific activities (like jump off a cliff), but of generic ideas (like thrill-seeking without risking your life). <strike>To start off I am dividing the list into 2 categories, constructive (things with real-life applications) and non-constructive (things with no real life applications)</strike> I am screwing the non-constructive category, as for totally pointless stuff you can just use the LD experience checklist (though there are many fun things on this list that just aren&#39;t 100% pointless (though some are pretty close, they&#39;re just also interesting)) Within these, ideas will be put into more specific sub-categories. Please just give me any ideas you have, as I want to keep this list going.

Reality Alteration:

• Experiment with drugs (within the dream) and see their effects on the dream
• Try to alter your perspective and view the world in more than 3 dimensions

p.s. read chevalier_violet&#39;s post as it has some good thoughts on how lucid dreams can help you improve in everyday activities.

First of all, what a shame that you haven&#39;t yet received any replies.

I will name a few. Keep in mind I would group "enjoyment" in a category of its own, because there&#39;s no constructive element to it. For example, flying in a dream is fun, but you can&#39;t fly in real life so there&#39;s no construction or skill-building that is applicable to real-life. I&#39;m not saying that makes it useless, just not useful to real life.

What interests me are things you can transfer to the realm of the normal world of everyday life.

The largest benefit of "dreaming attention" rather than "normal attention" is that for some reason, a different aspect of our being is controlling our actions, rather than our normal one. In LDing we learn to control this being, but it is not the same, nor does it think the same way. If we try to become our normal selves in a dream, we wake up. Try it, it&#39;s true. Only a part of our normal attention can exist in our dreams.

One important aspect is that we are paying attention about 100 times more while we dream. In real life we&#39;re thinking of what we have to do later that day, what we&#39;re going to eat, we complain, we wish somebody were there or weren&#39;t there. We&#39;re not paying any damn attention. That&#39;s why hindsight is 20/20, you know. We only fully pay attention when we&#39;re remembering something&#33;

This focused aspect of dreaming attention has important practical benefits. The quality of any work or idea intended for the real world is improved, not because we did it in a dream, but because you are forced to pay attention.

Of course any sort of creative ability is improved: painting, drawing, poetry, fiction, story-telling, architecture, composing, performing music etc. Of course you have to wake up and weed out all the crazy ideas, but they&#39;re crazy because they&#39;re creative.

I would like to underline that I believe most of language learning takes place in dreams not, not in ordinary attention. Practically speaking, in dreams you can work anything: accent, grammar, syntax, vocabulary. I&#39;ve had lots of dreams where I was trying to define and get my hands on, so to speak, words I had learned. This is a VERY VERY neglected practical aspect of Lucid Dreams. What a shame&#33;

Of course any physical skill: juggling (that feels weird, try it), piano playing (I&#39;ve dreamed of playing concerts), sports. Anything you can practice in real life, you can practice dreaming. So of course, this list is endless.

Just tossing some stuff out there.

my little two cents on the phisical skill list (just because i did it a few nigths ago): practice sexual performances.
i mean, that&#39;s not something you can really practice a lot with lots of different boys ( :D ) , more than ever if you are engaged or anyway dislike occasional intercourse.

(and if he ask you "uoah, when did you learn it?" you will be able to feel completely innocent :D )

Good Topic.

How about this?
Meditating in Lucid Dreams?
In the Social Category:
-Overviewing Waking Life from a Concious Dreaming Perspective.
*Ask out that Girl in a Dream you wouldn&#39;t dare asking out in WakingLife to overview possible outcomes
*Find solution to friendship/relationship-problems by playing out scenarios and learning the concequences of your actions.

Creative/Spitrituality:
* Let Dreams, Especially Lucid ones, be inspiration and motivation on how to things in waking life and to go and do it right away.
I.E. You dreamt about Riding on the back of a Giant flying octopus: Wake up AND WRITE THE IDEA DOWN, have breakfast, go to work/school and then: Go paint/draw/sketch a piece of Art someone on the back of a Giant Flying octopus in a deep blue nightly sky.

There&#39;s an Artist in all of us: Just watch the Artistic Briljance of your Dreams.
Utilise Dreams to motivate you to Express these artistic dream-experiences.

Also a Dream about a peacefull, close group of friends who live in harmony and Peace may inspire you to be closer, more understanding and loving of the people dear to you.
Sometimes it&#39;s good to use an Insight gained from a Dream to set concrete goals in your Life.


Well I can go on for a day or 3, but I hope you get the idea; There&#39;s infinite ways on how Dreams can motivate us to do things in waking life.

thanks a bunch guys. Keep more coming&#33;

Yes&#33; This is a fantasic topic&#33; All of it-meditaion, constructive learning, every part simply amazes me, this is why I want to have lds often&#33;

Great stuff&#33; Benefitial in everyway&#33;

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Originally Posted by italianmonkey

my little two cents on the phisical skill list (just because i did it a few nigths ago): practice sexual performances.
i mean, that&#39;s not something you can really practice a lot with lots of different boys ( :D ) , more than ever if you are engaged or anyway dislike occasional intercourse.

(and if he ask you "uoah, when did you learn it?" you will be able to feel completely innocent :D )
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Oh, and LOL :-P

Very good topic. To bad I&#39;m not a skilled enough lucid dreamer to contribute :( :P

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Originally Posted by Beef

Very good topic. To bad I&#39;m not a skilled enough lucid dreamer to contribute :( :P
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Trust me. You are. I don&#39;t think I&#39;ve reached high enough Lucidity to do anything on the list. That doesn&#39;t mean I can&#39;t think of good ideas. Just submit any ideas you have, i&#39;m sure you have them.

For Graphical Artists suffering from a a Creative Depression: A Lack of Inspiration. DREAMING and especially LUCID DREAMING is their Savior:

So you don&#39;t know what to draw, paint, clay, chizzle or what poëm, Philosophy or Book to write?

Well here&#39;s a good one for all the painters and Drawers with a lack of Inspiration:

Uppon gaining Lucidity in a Dream, just hang around there if the dreamscene is nice. If you&#39;re a little more advanced in LDing you might change the DreamScene to your Likings eve more: Just sit down and look all around you into the Dreamworld, try to store it in your memory very well and absort it all.

When you wake up Immediately grab your pencils&Paper/Cloth and paint and Draw/Paint what you remember having seen in that Lucid dream.

Let the Dreamworld inspire your Artistic Creativity for a Great deal this way.

Lots of things seen in my Drawings are things I&#39;ve seen in (Non-Lucid) Dreams. I remembered them as they made a great Inspirational impression on me. My FIRST goal when I obtain Lucidity again (and it&#39;s been a while) is to do that: Just sit down and carefully observe the Dreamworld around me and store it into my Memory very well so I will remember the Scenery uppon awakening. And then, off course, Draw it exactly as I remember it.

I have found it possible to induce dreams in foreign languages. Being a linguistics major this helps a great deal in language acquisition. I would note, that this is a very common side-effect when living in a foreign country (dreaming in a foreign language), as I had the same experience when I moved to the netherlands. I was there for approximately a week before this started to happen to me, and then poooof, my dreams started to happen in dutch... I beleive this helps with language aquisition, and is natural.

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Originally Posted by peaches

I have found it possible to induce dreams in foreign languages. Being a linguistics major this helps a great deal in language acquisition. I would note, that this is a very common side-effect when living in a foreign country (dreaming in a foreign language), as I had the same experience when I moved to the netherlands. I was there for approximately a week before this started to happen to me, and then poooof, my dreams started to happen in dutch... I beleive this helps with language aquisition, and is natural.
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Very interesting. Do you know of any studies that talk about dreaming and language acquisition? Is there anyone you could ask (without feeling embarrassed? not that I think you should be)?

I was just learning French in France. The background is that I&#39;ve been taking French since 8th grade (9 years), I&#39;ve lived in Montreal. So my grammar is usually pretty solid, my accent is "slight" according to most people. Usually when I speak, I don&#39;t understand why people think I have an accent. Anyway, I had a lot of difficulty LDing in French. But once I did, I could HEAR my accent, I could FEEL what it would be like to be French.

I&#39;ve also had several dreams where I was obviously trying to place the exact meaning of a French word.

If dreams have partially to do with problem solving, as some people seem to think, there simply must be some study in the linguistic world about linguistic problem solving in dreams.

Would you please tell me what you know, and what you can find out? Thanks,

The Purple Knight

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Originally Posted by peaches

Trust me. You are. I don&#39;t think I&#39;ve reached high enough Lucidity to do anything on the list. That doesn&#39;t mean I can&#39;t think of good ideas. Just submit any ideas you have, i&#39;m sure you have them.
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Good reply. :bravo: :goodjob:

Glad to see you&#39;re still around these parts :happyme: :party:

These smiley&#39;s are way too cool. Yeah I know I&#39;m going overboard :banana:

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Originally Posted by peaches

I have found it possible to induce dreams in foreign languages. Being a linguistics major this helps a great deal in language acquisition. I would note, that this is a very common side-effect when living in a foreign country (dreaming in a foreign language), as I had the same experience when I moved to the netherlands. I was there for approximately a week before this started to happen to me, and then poooof, my dreams started to happen in dutch... I beleive this helps with language aquisition, and is natural.
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Interestingly I have never had spanish dreams, though I am learning spanish (second year), though my friend reports he dreams spanish pretty often. Anyways LDing in anather language is officially on the list now, thanks.

Well, I will explain to you what I know and what my thoughts are on the situation.

NOTE: I have not found any studies yet on the subject, but I will need to goto the library.


Ok, another preface, my mother was born in Russia, so when I was a child my father would speak only english and my mother only russian to me. I am already bi-lingual, I have found it not very difficult to have dreams in Russian, although I mostly dream in english, because... I am in an english speak country....

But my procedure goes something like this. It isn&#39;t any more difficult than a reality check for me, I will think to myself at timed intervals throughout the day, ... ej, I am going to dream tonight in russian, .... and I constantly think over and over this thoughout the day.... What I will also do is listen to music in Russian throughout the day. When I am done, at night I will also attempt to watch a movie in Russian.... for example my favorite happens to be Russian Ark, a good movie regarless..... then I lay in bed and just start thinking about the movie or the music and in my own mind just listen to them speak....

Now i am not always number one at lucid dreaming, so sometimes I have them lucid sometimes not.... but I do have excellent dream recall.... so, i have been doing this for a while, and it isn&#39;t so difficult....

I have found it possible for me to produce dreams in french, with the same mindset, since i study french though, i goto french class in the morning and then listen to music/movies throughout the day, fall alseep, and voila .... although i have found that i do not always understand what is even going on in my dream...

sometimes it is also advantageous to play a movie in the background if you can fall alseep with the tv on, i find that some things they are saying in the movie appear in my dream....

Now.....

How does this help in language acquisition? I have found that I am not going to learn vocabulary when I sleep, but I have found that I have come to have a better accent. There is a rythm to language that I beleive is what is picked up while you sleep, maybe somewhat pronunciation can be improved if you can become lucid.... I have found out that when I wake up, if i get up, i have found that i can look in the dictionary and find out some things they were saying in my sleep....I don&#39;t know though if when i sleep if everyone makes alot of sense in french, i think that more or less it is just them reciting sentences i have heard throughout the day, but i beleive you mind does pick up on this and as long as it is in your short term memory it can be put into your dream.

One more thing... I know about langauge acquisition,.... that might be of note...

when we are children, our mind spends more time in a state of theta brainwaves... so if you can hypnotize yourself more often, which is sort of a hobby of mine, that can help you out greatly also...

try to use binuaral beats to bring your brain into this state and listen to some vocabulary cd or whatever... i have found this helps alot with vocabulary building...

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Originally Posted by peaches

One more thing... I know about langauge acquisition,.... that might be of note...

when we are children, our mind spends more time in a state of theta brainwaves... so if you can hypnotize yourself more often, which is sort of a hobby of mine, that can help you out greatly also...

try to use binuaral beats to bring your brain into this state and listen to some vocabulary cd or whatever... i have found this helps alot with vocabulary building...
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What are binuaral beats? You are a motivated language learner. That&#39;s one of the first requirements for learning a language well.

You ever been to Paris to learn French?

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Originally Posted by peaches

NOTE: I have not found any studies yet on the subject, but I will need to goto the library.
Ok, another preface, my mother was born in Russia, so when I was a child my father would speak only english and my mother only russian to me. I am already bi-lingual, I have found it not very difficult to have dreams in Russian, although I mostly dream in english, because... I am in an english speak country....

But my procedure goes something like this. It isn&#39;t any more difficult than a reality check for me, I will think to myself at timed intervals throughout the day, ... ej, I am going to dream tonight in russian, .... and I constantly think over and over this thoughout the day.... What I will also do is listen to music in Russian throughout the day. When I am done, at night I will also attempt to watch a movie in Russian.... for example my favorite happens to be Russian Ark, a good movie regarless..... then I lay in bed and just start thinking about the movie or the music and in my own mind just listen to them speak....

Now i am not always number one at lucid dreaming, so sometimes I have them lucid sometimes not.... but I do have excellent dream recall.... so, i have been doing this for a while, and it isn&#39;t so difficult....

I have found it possible for me to produce dreams in french, with the same mindset, since i study french though, i goto french class in the morning and then listen to music/movies throughout the day, fall alseep, and voila .... although i have found that i do not always understand what is even going on in my dream...

sometimes it is also advantageous to play a movie in the background if you can fall alseep with the tv on, i find that some things they are saying in the movie appear in my dream....

Now.....

How does this help in language acquisition? I have found that I am not going to learn vocabulary when I sleep, but I have found that I have come to have a better accent. There is a rythm to language that I beleive is what is picked up while you sleep, maybe somewhat pronunciation can be improved if you can become lucid.... I have found out that when I wake up, if i get up, i have found that i can look in the dictionary and find out some things they were saying in my sleep....I don&#39;t know though if when i sleep if everyone makes alot of sense in french, i think that more or less it is just them reciting sentences i have heard throughout the day, but i beleive you mind does pick up on this and as long as it is in your short term memory it can be put into your dream.
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Wow, dreaming in a language had that much effect for you? If you ever make it to the library to research those articles, I would be very interested to know what you find out.

I don&#39;t mean to be a downer on this thread, but doesn&#39;t it kind of defeat the purpose of this subforum? I mean the point of the subforum is to make topics to show the uses for LD&#39;ing, but with this thread you could just post whatever you were going to say into here and be done.

Well to not be off topic:
You can always use your dreams to explore different forms of logic. You can also use them to design things for real life(more like an animation studio than an autoCAD program though).

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Originally Posted by JEBOman

I don&#39;t mean to be a downer on this thread, but doesn&#39;t it kind of defeat the purpose of this subforum? I mean the point of the subforum is to make topics to show the uses for LD&#39;ing, but with this thread you could just post whatever you were going to say into here and be done.
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Well, not exactly. My idea with this thread is just to have a list of ideas for people to read, not a in-depth discussion on each and every idea, and if people want to discuss something in depth, they should start their own topic. This is just like a master list of ideas submitted, like the Lucid dreaming checklist (at least before the guy stopped updating it).

Sorry, I got distracted.... and I hope some admin can break that off into another topic that would be wonderful.


I have another one...


I have heard that it can help with recovery from a physical workout, like weight lifting for example.

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Originally Posted by JEBOman

I don&#39;t mean to be a downer on this thread, but doesn&#39;t it kind of defeat the purpose of this subforum? I mean the point of the subforum is to make topics to show the uses for LD&#39;ing, but with this thread you could just post whatever you were going to say into here and be done.

Well to not be off topic:
You can always use your dreams to explore different forms of logic. You can also use them to design things for real life(more like an animation studio than an autoCAD program though).
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Different forms of logic... that&#39;s an interesting idea. What do you mean?

I suppose I can see "different form of symbol association."

I agree that it&#39;s useful to have a master list just to inspire people, but also we should have a separate linguistic thread Here :)

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Originally Posted by chevalier_violet

Different forms of logic... that&#39;s an interesting idea. What do you mean?
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I mean like look into 5th dimentional space and maybe mess with the laws of geometry, make some really cool stuff that isn&#39;t of the nature you&#39;d normally see. Also you could completely change the outcome of any action you do, like you take a bite from an apple and it gets larger.

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Originally Posted by chevalier_violet

I agree that it&#39;s useful to have a master list just to inspire people, but also we should have a separate linguistic thread Here :)
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That&#39;s a good idea, but I think it would help the discussion if you put in some of your thoughts and introduced the topic, as currently there really isn&#39;t much to discuss there.

Also, that 5th dimensional messing around is a pretty cool idea.

How about do all the bad stuff you want to do but try to avoid IRL?

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Originally Posted by Moonbeam

How about do all the bad stuff you want to do but try to avoid IRL?
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What&#39;s IRL? Fantastic quote btw

"Whenever I want you, all I have to do..."

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Originally Posted by chevalier_violet

What&#39;s IRL? Fantastic quote btw

"Whenever I want you, all I have to do..."
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IRL = In Real Life.

Quote- Everly Brothers song, "All I Have to Do is Dream". Too old to even be an oldie I guess.

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Originally Posted by Moonbeam

How about do all the bad stuff you want to do but try to avoid IRL?
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I assume you mean drugs?

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Originally Posted by PenguinLord13

I assume you mean drugs?
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Lol, that is not really exactly what I was thinking of, but if you could get that to work, I think it would be in this category. I have smoked cigarettes in LD&#39;s and that seemed real, but I can&#39;t really imagine any dream-drugs actually doing anything (anybody? It seems like if they did work you would lose your lucidity.) I was mostly thinking of sex (I guess you have that listed but it seems more like developing a skill rather than being done for fun with people you shouldn&#39;t or can&#39;t). Also eating a pint of Ben and Jerry&#39;s Phish food....

I was just joking really, I had hopes of lots of things I could do to improve myself when I first started trying to LD. I haven&#39;t been really very successful, so I&#39;ve been reduced to trying a for a little sensual pleasure of one kind or another. Maybe I&#39;ll try to get serious again and be optimistic that I will be able to do this on a regular enough basis to start to explore options and develop talents rather than just live out meaningless whims and fantasies.

Thanks for the inspiration. (I&#39;m not mocking now.)

ok a few questions
number one = I want to prove my basketball, (shooting mainly)
has anyone ever nused lucid dremaing to improve a sporting technique and is actually defintely certain that it casued a marked improvemnet
second of all, im studying french have been for three years
Im not very talmented at it at all
will simply dreaming in and then attmepting to learn french in a dream help me?
has anyone experienced this?
Thanks
Imran

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Originally Posted by imran_p

ok a few questions
number one = I want to prove my basketball, (shooting mainly)
has anyone ever nused lucid dremaing to improve a sporting technique and is actually defintely certain that it casued a marked improvemnet
second of all, im studying french have been for three years
Im not very talmented at it at all
will simply dreaming in and then attmepting to learn french in a dream help me?
has anyone experienced this?
Thanks
Imran
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well, not sure about b-ball, but (for the French question) you would only be able to improve upon what your mind already knows. Such as a class where you forget what your teacher said, you COULD spend about 5-10 minutes during a test trying to remember what he/she said or you could take a few lucid dreams to restudy (is that a word?) and do better. because your mind remembers everything you learn, but you can&#39;t keep it all in the active 10% of your brain. during a dream you can use 100% (I think) so you can just push out what you know about Math to remember :D

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Originally Posted by imran_p

ok a few questions
number one = I want to prove my basketball, (shooting mainly)
has anyone ever nused lucid dremaing to improve a sporting technique and is actually defintely certain that it casued a marked improvemnet
second of all, im studying french have been for three years
Im not very talmented at it at all
will simply dreaming in and then attmepting to learn french in a dream help me?
has anyone experienced this?
Thanks
Imran
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As Cidus said, for the French, I you won&#39;t be able to learn stuff you didn&#39;t already hear in class, but you should be able to practice in your dream by speaking french with everyone, and forcing yourself to communicate with what you know already. As for the basketball, I am pretty sure you could improve your shooting or dribbling form, as your brain doesn&#39;t know the difference between doing it in your imagination like a dream, or doing it in real life, and therefore you could train yourself to shoot more properly. You won&#39;t be able to shoot from further or something though, as it won&#39;t strengthen your muscles.

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Originally Posted by imran_p

because your mind remembers everything you learn, but you can&#39;t keep it all in the active 10% of your brain. during a dream you can use 100% (I think) so you can just push out what you know about Math to remember :D
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The 10% thing is NOT TRUE&#33;&#33;&#33; It has been busted many times over. We use all of our brain actively, it&#39;s just that some of it is for subconsious, and other parts aren&#39;t all used at once, or to their full capacity. You may not be using one thing playing basketball, but you are definitely using you motor function a lot, and you aren&#39;t using other things while studying, while you use whatever part is important for studying with more (I don&#39;t know what part that is). Also, you are using you brain to less capacity watching tv than when studying. You may not be constantly using all parts of the brain, but some activities do involve MUCH more than 10%, while others don&#39;t.

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The 10% thing is NOT TRUE&#33;&#33;&#33; It has been busted many times over. We use all of our brain actively, it&#39;s just that some of it is for subconsious, and other parts aren&#39;t all used at once, or to their full capacity. You may not be using one thing playing basketball, but you are definitely using you motor function a lot, and you aren&#39;t using other things while studying, while you use whatever part is important for studying with more (I don&#39;t know what part that is). Also, you are using you brain to less capacity watching tv than when studying. You may not be constantly using all parts of the brain, but some activities do involve MUCH more than 10%, while others don&#39;t.[/b]

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WOW&#33; I didn&#39;t know that, thanks. ^L^

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Originally Posted by cidus

WOW&#33; I didn&#39;t know that, thanks. ^L^
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by the way, was I too harsh in telling you that? If I was, sorry. It is just a little pet peeve of mine. I think I&#39;ll put the 10% thing disproved in my siggy so I don&#39;t have to go on a rant everytime I see it :)

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Originally Posted by JEBOman

I mean like look into 5th dimentional space and maybe mess with the laws of geometry, make some really cool stuff that isn&#39;t of the nature you&#39;d normally see. Also you could completely change the outcome of any action you do, like you take a bite from an apple and it gets larger.[/b]

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i&#39;m not saying that it isn&#39;t possible but at the end of the day, looking into the 5th dimention wouldn&#39;t be for real, only your interpretation of the 5th dimention, cool idea though, well worth a try&#33;

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Originally Posted by lucid_seeker

i&#39;m not saying that it isn&#39;t possible but at the end of the day, looking into the 5th dimention wouldn&#39;t be for real, only your interpretation of the 5th dimention, cool idea though, well worth a try&#33;[/b]

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Uhhh, what?

I mean, I share your belief that it could be entirely imaginary. But I disagree that a dreamview of the 5th dimension would necessarily be ONLY imaginary.

For one thing, how do you know? How would you know?

But I believe more and more that really, us looking at the 3rd dimension is only imaginary. Not that I&#39;m saying reality is ultimately not there, but I think that our view of the world is a "biological interpretation." What&#39;s amazing about dreams is that it&#39;s entirely possible that we can transcend our biological apparatus for perceiving reality. Maybe in dreams we can actually perceive five dimensions.

The biggest problem of course is that in normal reality, a chair looks like a chair to everybody. As near as we can possibly tell with all the experiments and reasoning and experience we can think of, we all perceive normal reality pretty much the same way. Once we get into "perceiving the 5th dimension in dreams" of course, our perception is far more subjective. Which is not to say "totally imaginary" - but our way of interpreting reality will change for the person.

Since the 5th dimension would be unfamiliar, I believe I would choose a different model or metaphor than would a different person.

At least, that&#39;s how it would work if it&#39;s possible to perceive reality in dreams. I admit from beginning to end that it is entirely possible that all dreams are just imaginary and invented.

I don&#39;t like how you said, "it wouldn&#39;t be for real." I did like that you said "I&#39;m not saying it&#39;s impossible." Very wise addition. I just don&#39;t believe that really, our perceptions of color are for real. It is just one way of interpreting things. A species from a different planet could perceive color as a sound and sound as a color. Everything we perceive is "just a way of representing reality", it&#39;s a metaphor.

le Chevalier Violet

The Purple Knight

Though I am not going to close my mind to the possibility of being able to see actually in another dimension, I think it will probably just be created by you mind for the simple reason that we are so trained to see in 3 dimensions that seeing in 4 or 5 dimensions would be an extremely difficult and abstract thought for are minds to comprehend. According to many theories (like the string theory), there are more than 3 or 4 dimensions, and there are (as in the example of the string theory) 11 or something like that. If this is true then I see no reason that we can&#39;t see in more dimensions if we can transcend our biological dispositions and limitations, but the problem is doing just that, and though I believe it is probably possible, I think it would be very difficult to do, and I would guess would require a lot of preparation (like meditation etc.) and effort to accomplish.

Anyways, I am adding this to the list now.

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Originally Posted by chevalier_violet

Uhhh, what?

I mean, I share your belief that it could be entirely imaginary. But I disagree that a dreamview of the 5th dimension would necessarily be ONLY imaginary.

For one thing, how do you know? How would you know?

But I believe more and more that really, us looking at the 3rd dimension is only imaginary. Not that I&#39;m saying reality is ultimately not there, but I think that our view of the world is a "biological interpretation." What&#39;s amazing about dreams is that it&#39;s entirely possible that we can transcend our biological apparatus for perceiving reality. Maybe in dreams we can actually perceive five dimensions.

The biggest problem of course is that in normal reality, a chair looks like a chair to everybody. As near as we can possibly tell with all the experiments and reasoning and experience we can think of, we all perceive normal reality pretty much the same way. Once we get into "perceiving the 5th dimension in dreams" of course, our perception is far more subjective. Which is not to say "totally imaginary" - but our way of interpreting reality will change for the person.

Since the 5th dimension would be unfamiliar, I believe I would choose a different model or metaphor than would a different person.

At least, that&#39;s how it would work if it&#39;s possible to perceive reality in dreams. I admit from beginning to end that it is entirely possible that all dreams are just imaginary and invented.

I don&#39;t like how you said, "it wouldn&#39;t be for real." I did like that you said "I&#39;m not saying it&#39;s impossible." Very wise addition. I just don&#39;t believe that really, our perceptions of color are for real. It is just one way of interpreting things. A species from a different planet could perceive color as a sound and sound as a color. Everything we perceive is "just a way of representing reality", it&#39;s a metaphor.

le Chevalier Violet

The Purple Knight[/b]

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now thats an argument lol, i don&#39;t think i&#39;m going to be able to compete with that, and you do make some good points about it, i suppose i didn&#39;t think that one through entirely, maybe it could be possible, it all depends on how far the brains capability can stretch in a LD, i see what you mean now about it.