The "Evil" in SP

I've been encoutering more and more SP lately (which is odd, because I never had a case of it before I started LD'ing).

While anyway, most of the time I would wake up from a LD into the SP...I would see something that looked like this:

http://monsters.ffxi-atlas.com/monsters/?id=354

No choking, no chest-sitting, no sounds...just kinda "out there"...Well, today....NOT good.

So I am lying in my bed, face up...(this may be a FA)...i go to reach for my nose, can't...ugh...SP. anyways, this hat that I have on top of one of my speakers that overhangs my bed, flew off and hit me in the foot...(now i think I may be dreaming)...the next thing I know, I feel like I am hovering, and I am in this space between my bed and dresser...still cant move...but, I feel a presence..

So things are starting to get to me. Then, I hear "it. "It" is the voice of pure evil. In the one or two successful WILDs I've had, the verbal hallucinations I had were mild...kinda amusing in a way. But this...just pure evil. And I could feel a pressure on my throat...not choking, but like there was a remote on my neck.

Well, anyways, I am pretty sure it was a bad case of SP. My question I guess is...has anyone had the sounds of pure evil talk to them? I don't remember what he said, but he had that Low, deep, demonic tone.

Well, Happy dreaming, lol!

thats pretty creepy. about the only voice i hear sounds automated for some reason, or like god from bruce almighty. haha kinda random, i know.

Could be just the panic of not being able to move. First time I had SP, I was sure it was aliens. I felt kinda silly for thinking that afterwards, but at the time it made perfect sense.

I have noticed an evil feeling presence after hypnagogic and hypnopompic imagery. It was so disturbing, I actually gave up on exploring the hypnagogic state for awhile. I still haven't really got back into it. I've heard someone mention that this was referred to as a Threshold Entity. Seems to be pretty common anyways, probably nothing to it.

I have yet to repeat my success with WILD, but this is quite interesting. A dark, malevolent presence... how cool is that? Anyways, I know a friend who often gets FA's and has problems with SP... in the dream, he has a monster slowly approach him bit by bit, until it's pretty much sitting on his chest. Then as soon as he wakes up, he starts jumping around his room just wanting to move around after having the dreams. Kinda freaky...

Hallucinations like that are a pretty common part of SP... While some people don't get them, many others do. Personally, I've had some very freaky SP experiences... This one time, I began hearing voices like children playing and laughing, and saw a dark shadow creeping towards me... Before I came out of SP, I could swear I felt little hands brushing my shoulders and gripping my throat tighter and tighter.

Knowing what it is -- simple hallucinations caused by your being aware as your mind begins to slip into the dream state -- really goes a long way in fighting the fear and sticking through it until you have a successful WILD :)

Below is a posting I did on 03/02/05 of my only (I hope) experience with "Old Hag":

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Originally Posted by Clairity

I've experienced "Old Hag" (i.e., sleep paralyis) before and was usually able to ride it out without too much fear or discomfort as I knew what it was.. but what I experienced this morning.. was different.. it was violent.

First a little education on what Old Hag/sleep paralyis for those who haven't heard the terms before.

** Old Hag is caused by sleep paralysis lingering after waking. Sleep paralysis happens during REM dreaming, and prevents you from acting out your dreams by blocking motor signals from your brain. The classic symptoms are - unable to move, a feeling of weight on your chest and/or unable to breath, a sense of a presence, fear or panic, and some vague (usually greyish) object in the centre of the visual field which is often interpreted as a person (or nowadays, an alien). The "Old Hag" name arose from people putting the symptoms together to form the interpretation that an old hag was sat on your chest, pinning you to the bed. **

As I said I've experienced "Old Hag" before but this morning.. this morning really scared me.

I woke up at 4:30 am and had gone to a couch in another room so as not to be disturbed by my husband. I had done my meditation on my back but since it takes me forever to fall asleep on my back, I rolled over onto my right side. I again continued my affirmations to realize when I was dreaming. I felt the familiar "shift" that let me know that I was on the bridge between mind awake and body asleep when things turned horribly.. different.

I heard a screeching/scraping sound which I welcomed in a way as it usually meant the vibrations were coming and perhaps I could go straight into a lucid dream. I remained focused and calm.. ready for the vibrations to start.. but suddenly I felt myself being lifted up into the air and SLAMMED back onto the couch! My first thought was WTF!! but I hadn't even finished that thought when I was lifted up, shaken and slammed again! I was violently slammed at least 5 times.. Once I even felt my body being "broken" over the arm of the couch! I tried to "wake" myself up but couldn't move! I didn't even think to scream.. I was just so shocked that this was happening. It felt like something incredibly strong was lifting me up by the back of my legs and was slamming me like a rag doll!

Somehow the words "I am protected by pure white light" came into my mind and it all... just... stopped.

Slowly in the black stillness I saw hypnagogic imagery of large luminous white snowflakes floating towards and past my eyes. They sort of reminded me of those large crystal snowflakes that you'd put on a Christmas tree. Even though there were many and moving, I could tell that each one was different.

I thought that if I could stop them from going by and turn them into a landscape.. I could jump or merge into them as I have other hypnagogic images and begin a lucid dream.. but I lost concentration and they started to fade and I woke up.

I lay there for a few minutes just trying to make sense out what had happened. I am so grateful for the snowflakes that I saw because if I had woken right up after the "astral attack", I might have gotten up, went back to my bed, hugged my husband and been too afraid to ever try LDing again.

Instead, I calmed myself, asked again to be protected by pure white light and fell into a sweet very vivid non-lucid dream.

I realize this is a very long post and I thank those who read it all the way through. I mistakenly thought that "old Hag" experiences only happened if you slept on your back and I was on my side - almost on my stomach. Through it all I felt no physical pain and I feel no effects from it as I type this. I also do not feel that there was anything "sexual" about this attack.

I truly believe that sharing negative things like this with others takes away it's power (like lighting a candle in the dark).. you only truly "suffer" in silence.

Thank you all for being my candle..

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Originally Posted by HockeyIsLife

Many words...

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I've once had a normal-dream, where this character walked up to me and said "My energy is feeling evil today!" I was sorta like "What does he mean?" I then asked him to channel some of his energy into me. So, I got some of the evil energy inside me, and it was like I got exhausted. You know, when you get chocked by something, that feeling in your chest, I got it in my whole body. It was hot and cold at the same time, it felt very dark, but it gave me a picture of pure white.
Then I bend over, and got up again, and it was over.

That was a weird experience. I've also tried where pure-evil is talking to me. Once, I woke up in the night, and I was just crying. I was extremely scared, not paranoid, but scared. My mom got in, and asked why I was crying, and I couldn't answer. I was just there, scared as hell.
When I woke up in the morning, I barely remembered it. Weird :p

Dude , if you play that game of the monster, thats pure mind stuff.
though my brother sometimes has dreams of being in the darkness and some low creepy voice calls him slowly "wolter...........wolteeer......wooooolteeeeee r.."
and that

Clarity, sounds similar to what happened to me.

One question though: When you are exiting a lucid or non-lucid dream into SP, can you use that as a cue to induce another dream? Or, for future reference, should I just wait and wait and not move, and attempt either a FILD or DEILD...

Thanks for the responses everyone, keeps motivating me to get better at this!

SP is great for attempting DEILD, if I remember correctly.

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Originally Posted by HockeyIsLife

Clarity, sounds similar to what happened to me.

One question though: When you are exiting a lucid or non-lucid dream into SP, can you use that as a cue to induce another dream? Or, for future reference, should I just wait and wait and not move, and attempt either a FILD or DEILD...

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I wish I could provide you with an answer but, sadly, once I exit a lucid or non-lucid dream, I've yet to be able to slip into another lucid. I am only successfully with WILDS.. I have yet to have a lucid dream with either FILD or DEILD. :(
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I used to get SP fairly regularly when I was younger (along with lucidity, but I didn't know the possibilities and wasted my chances...).
Mostly, I would wake up with the feeling that there was someone standing over me, just out of sight in the dark. Sometimes I could even feel their breath, but I couldn't move my body at all and trying to scream never seemed to produce more than a squeak. Funnily enough, it scared the hell out of me...

Although it never led to lucid dreams, it seemed to lead to more vivid dreams
, usually of being tickled for some reason?!

What the hells SP?

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Originally Posted by horsebucket

What the hells SP?

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SP stands for Sleep Paralysis. The definition of SP and other acronyms can be found here:

http://www.dreamviews.com/community/...ead.php?t=2954
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Alright. I love sleep paralysis myself. I find if i dont move a muscle i can keep fading back into the border between sleep and wake and hear all those crazy screeching sounds, and feel my face caving in and get the vibrations and all the mad shit that comes with it. One time when everything went black I decided to think about myself rotating and I swear to god I went into this mad spiral that felt like I was flying through space rotating at about 90 MPH.

I used to get to scared to go all the way from wake to sleep consciosly because of the sounds and the shadows and vibrations and all that madness but once you get by the fear barrier you can watch every step of yourself go from being awake to dreaming. A problem I have sometimes is I feel mad pressure on my back like someone driving a pneumatic drill into my kidneys and I get worried that its really happening and that im gonna have a ruptured kidney so I wake myself up but logically theres nobody driving a jackhammer into my back so I drift back into sleep.

Its funny seeing how the dream starts. Once I had super mario drag me by the legs all the way into a dream another time a big cat clawed me and dragged me onto a bus and I was dreaming. Other times scenery just appears but it does happen alot that someone or something drags me by the legs into a dream. I swear to god one day super mario dragged me by the legs all the way down a staircase in a castle to start the dream off.

The three or so times I have experienced SP... I DID NOT LIKE IT AT ALL!!!!.

Well after watching the boogeyman or something like that I was lying face up and bed and could not move at all and I heard a high pitch white noise and a horrible I mean god awful sense of impending doom like the devil was next to me. But it wasn't the devil it was a shadow that was looking down at me and I began to sweat profusely. It said something like "Times up now what are you going to do?" which freaked me out more and then it ended.

Another time I had been in a dream listening to a walkman or something when I opened my eyes I heard that damn high pitch white noise which is always a sign that I am SP and there was a shadow again near the bed looking at me and I couldnt move for the life of me scared me shitless needless to say and I also recall some shadows flying around the ceiling at least it didnt say anything.

Still SP has to be one of the worst experiences I have ever had.

As for Clairity that story I feel your pain SP is scary unless of course it is the peaceful SP that proceeds into a Lucid Dream, not the presence of evil, impending doom, or an astral attack.

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Originally Posted by Brandon Heat

Still SP has to be one of the worst experiences I have ever had.

As for Clairity that story I feel your pain SP is scary unless of course it is the peaceful SP that proceeds into a Lucid Dream, not the presence of evil, impending doom, or an astral attack.

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Brandon Heat, I agree. In fact part of me wants to avoid reading this topic for fear that just reading about SP will bring the "old hag" back! :(

But that's just silly .. right? :confused:
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Originally Posted by Clairity

Brandon Heat, I agree. In fact part of me wants to avoid reading this topic for fear that just reading about SP will bring the "old hag" back! :(

But that's just silly .. right? :confused:
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I hope so :eek: cause, I don't want to be having any SP any time soon. Everytime I have a bad SP a year is taken off my life lol.

Hi guys.

I'm new to this forum but not new to LD study. I'm curious, does anyone have theories on why hypnagogic imagery associated with SP almost always seems to be of a negative nature? (i.e. old hag, menacing presences etc.) In all the accounts I've heard and my own personal experience, I've yet to hear of SP accompanied by blissful feelings or the feeling of someone really happy standing standing in the shadows lol.

Maybe it's just an automatic fear triggered by not being able to move. But it still seems odd to me that it's pretty much always a scary thing.

Any thoughts?

-Subject

Probably because it totally goes against the bodies "Fight Or Flight" response lol. You can't run and you can't move so your brain pretty much goes "AHHHH WTF!?!?!? HAXORS!"

What Brandon Heat said.
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That old hag thing is interesting. I never heard of it before, and I dont think i've ever experienced sleep paralysis either but when I was little sometimes I almost slept on my stomach and when I woke up I couldn't move or open my eyes but I couldn't breath and it was really scary, so I never slept on my stomach.

I know this is a pretty obvious and stupid question, but you can't open your eyes in sleep paralysis right? Enlighten me :confused:

Like I said once you get past the fear barrier you'll be hoping for sleep paralysis. It doesnt happen to me much but when it does I make sure I dont move a muscle so it keeps happening over and over again until I drift fully into sleep.
I still get that feeling that theres something evil floating around my body when im paralyzed and i get fear for no reason but i let it pass then I get to watch myself fall asleep.

It used to happen to me all the time and I found a way to pull myself out of it. I keep trying to move my shoulders and eventaully i can move. I can pull myself out of it any time these days but thats the last thing i wanna do. Your bodies paralyzed cuz your half asleep so experiment with it. When you get that high pitch noise and the pressure on your back just ignore it. It cant do any damage to you.

Another thing that used to scare me awake was when is id hear a womans voice whispering in my ear. Used to scare the living shit outta me but nowadays I just try to hear what the hell shes saying.

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I'm curious, does anyone have theories on why hypnagogic imagery associated with SP almost always seems to be of a negative nature?

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Fear of the unknown. It just appears to be negative because you dont know what it is. I used to see these little black shadow heads flying around the room letting out these mad screeching sounds and things like that but whats negative about them?

Its an automatic reaction for me to get scared when im half asleep but once I let the fear pass all sorts of mad things happen. One time I saw a big display of multicolored lasers shooting out from all over the place. That was anything but negative. Thats when everything goes black though.

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you can't open your eyes in sleep paralysis right?

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Yeah you can. Usually the first thing you can move is your eye lids.

I agree with horsebucket. I think fear of the unknown is the root of the evil. I've been slowly getting used to these evil entities, the seem much less menacing now.

Dude, I know EXACTLY what you're talking about. That voice?

When I was WILDing once, I got freaked out and tried to scream. My words came out in this really slow way, like dripping molasses. When I stopped talking, the 'words' I had said became an entity of their own, and my 'voice' was just sort of oozing around me, making these horrible, evil sounds.

I can do WILD just fine, but it really scares the shit out of me. Anyone have advice on how to get over that?

WILD doesn't scare me it's just SP that scares me... >_>

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Originally Posted by MrXcitement

I can do WILD just fine, but it really scares the shit out of me. Anyone have advice on how to get over that?

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Before each WILD attempt, I mentally repeat the following protection mantra: "My mind, my body, my soul and my spirit are protected by pure white light. May only those of pure white light come near me, may only those of pure white light touch me."

I do realize that some feel that there is nothing that can harm you astrally.. but this mantra comforts me, and per my posting earlier in this thread, repeating mentally the words, "I am protected by pure white light" caused my "attack" to stop.
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okay, I didn't read all the replies in this thread, so someone MAY have mentioned this already. But check out this DVD. http://www.saltcube.com/
(Someone else on this forum posted this link in another thread, but i cant remember who...)

It has a lot of info that is already found on this forum, or that almost any experienced LDer would know. But it also has answers to a few other things like the fear/evil/presence thing. In the DVD he mentions that many people feel a 'presence' in the room and it is very frightening. But he also says that there are ways to conquer this fear. You should almost hope for it to appear so that you can show off and prove that you are NOT afraid, and eventually it should fade.

But check out the website for more info. Sorry I can't be of more help. :( I am VERY bad at explaining things...


I haven't personally had an evil presence in my room at all while in SP, but I HAVE had moments while just experiencing pure terror, which is pretty common.

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Originally Posted by MrXcitement

When I was WILDing once, I got freaked out and tried to scream. My words came out in this really slow way, like dripping molasses. When I stopped talking, the 'words' I had said became an entity of their own, and my 'voice' was just sort of oozing around me, making these horrible, evil sounds.

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I didn't want to mention this, as it's a little out there, but these entities, and especially that description there, sound a lot like the Elementals described in Theosophy. These so called elementals are just strong thought forms.

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Originally Posted by The Cusp

I didn't want to mention this, as it's a little out there, but these entities, and especially that description there, sound a lot like the Elementals described in Theosophy. These so called elementals are just strong thought forms.

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Strong thought forms huh? I remember a one lady I asked said that it was you trying to get back into your body. Or something to that effect.

There's more too it, but it's a difficult read, and I really don't feel like trying to explain it.

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Originally Posted by Subject

Hi guys.

I'm new to this forum but not new to LD study. I'm curious, does anyone have theories on why hypnagogic imagery associated with SP almost always seems to be of a negative nature? (i.e. old hag, menacing presences etc.) In all the accounts I've heard and my own personal experience, I've yet to hear of SP accompanied by blissful feelings or the feeling of someone really happy standing standing in the shadows lol.

Maybe it's just an automatic fear triggered by not being able to move. But it still seems odd to me that it's pretty much always a scary thing.

Any thoughts?

-Subject

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Yup. I have a theory of my own wich so far is the one that made most sense. I made multiples sleepparalysis last year, like almost 2 to 3 per month. At the end I was trying to go back to sleep but it just impossible for me because my whole body is on the defensive mode, I have adrenaline rushes and Im ready to go to war thats how pumped and stressed I am after a SP.

Im not going to talk about visions and sounds as it is hallucinations, once I heard someone talk clearly and when I could finally move my body I realised it was the sound of the air conditioner being distorded.

heres my theory :

Because I do lucid dream quite everynight since the past 15 years I always know what happens before I SP. My first first SP will explain better my theory. I dreamed my uncle that just passed away the week before was in a room with me and I was chatting with them finding it cool to chat with my dead uncle. But my feelings twisted from amusement to fear and then panic. So I decided to wake up in emergency. So now you push your whole conscious to wake up, however the body and probably parts of the brain are still asleep.

So you can see ur somehow conscious but you cannot move. I can see the time because my radio clock is nxt to me, and my longest SP mode was exactly 24 minutes. Just that makes you paranoing enough and is a good source of fear.

As for the evil presence part it's simple... Your body knows that you have to wake up immediatly and the body doesnt know why. So while you gain conscious more and more your brain starts to find a somehow logical reason of the emergency feeling. Its like if your in a dark room and you suddenly panic and jump out of the window, but you dont know why because you dont remember what scared you off, so then your imagination opens to all kinds of interpretations as wicked as they can be. Devils, UFO's, someone in your room, fire in the place, etc... It will go with your beliefs or what fed your subconsciousness. So if you play RPG videogames you might recognise some monsters characters, if you believe in UFO's you might have saw one, if you believe in GOD then it was the devil, IF YOU JUST SAW A MOVIE THAT FREAKED YOU OUT then you will relate to that etc...

more at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dream_paralysis

But try to remember hard the dream you were having before the SP, and you will notice that something happened there that made you trigger the SP, that you ordered your body to wake up asap !

As for SP before falling asleep... it just happened once, and the reason was that I had to go work in like 2 hours so I was holding my sleep scared to overlseep my 2 hours. I guess that people here that want so bad to do a LD have SP because their just holding awaken their consciousness to let the body fall asleep and stay lucid... wich is a good idea actually.

First off... wow , nicely done and kudos to you.
I thought somthing similar to that but you went a little more detailed than i would have. Also why do you think your one sp was so long? Do you think it mught have somthing to do with when you wake up during your rem?
Thanks and happy dreaming.

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Originally Posted by Luc

First off... wow , nicely done and kudos to you.
I thought somthing similar to that but you went a little more detailed than i would have. Also why do you think your one sp was so long? Do you think it mught have somthing to do with when you wake up during your rem?
Thanks and happy dreaming.

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Oh man I remember that one, I was just so mad to do another SP. I hate it when it happens to me because I know I will not be able to sleep for the rest of the night. So when it happens at like 1 or 2 AM Im just so hangry because I know I wont get sleep wich I need for my day work.

So yeah what I did was trying to convince myself to refall asleep and let the SP pass. After all I know now what it is. And my hallucinations were about my brother entering my appartement. I I heard the door opening (same noise as if you open my appartement door) I heard his voice, the way he breath, he coughed the same way he coughs for real, he opened the bathroom door I even heard him do a pee, he then came in my bedroom opened the door and I was clearly hearing his body breathing and being there at like one 3 foot from me.

I was trying to convince myself its just an hallucination like all my other SP, but then I started to think it might be him because everything was so flawless. But all I could do is watch my alarm clock thats why I knew it lasted 24 minutes. and it was from 1h42 am to 2h06 am.

Usually I have a trick to wake up in a SP mode but it didnt worked this time. :confused:

oh PS : I was doing a Lucid dream about my brother before. I ordered my body to wake up because I felt my bro was in danger... But body didnt followed up.

Hmm I wasn't having a bad dream, but when I awoke I was experiencing SP and I also have my alarm clock by my bed. I didn't really think about moving I looked at my alarm clocked and noticed that is said about 1:10 AM when I heard a high pitch ringing noise (That noise you sometimes hear when there are no other noises in the room) whenever I hear this noise it scares the jeepers out of me. Right when I hear it I start to sweat profusely and get very scared and a slight pressure pushes down on my body. Then if I start to look around the room I see shadows accomponied by other odd noises.

The evil presence in my opinion is a combination of a few things.
1) Pressure On The Body
2) Audio Hallucinations
3) Visual Hallucinations
4) Body Parylysis

Now all 4 of those things are something that I am guessing the body and brain do not experience very often. Since this is a new experience accompinied by a dark environment it creates a dark atmosphere about the room explaining the dark presence.