Well put. This is turning out to be an interesting thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by Amethyst Star
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Well put. This is turning out to be an interesting thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by Amethyst Star
but comitting suicide is considered a sin in my religion, so killing yourself would still be bad, but then again if I killed someone in my dream I wouldn't really kill myselfQuote:
Originally Posted by Oneironaught
luv2dream, what constitutes a sin depends on two things: how you define "sin" and what your religious beliefs are. If by "sin" you mean "a bad deed" or "an act that harms others," then committing in an LD what would be a sin IRL is not a sin because you are not harming anyone. However, if you define "sin" strictly in a religious context, which it seems you do, then it would depend upon your beliefs.
I am an atheist, so I am certainly not the best person to help you with specific biblical citations (other posters like Silvanus350 will be of much more help in this regard), but I can tell you how I personally feel about this matter. I believe that if a supreme being does exist (let's say the God in Judaism, Christianity, and Islam), he/she/it would care not about your thoughts but rather your actions. If this supreme being gives us freedom of thought, shouldn't we be permitted to think whatever we want as long as we are kind to our fellow human beings (and planet)?
Oh, Calvinists will disagree with me on this because they believe that humans don't have free will. But in that case, you might as well do whatever you want in your LDs because if you are physically able to, that must mean that God predestined you to do so and that you had no choice in the matter! :p
Nefarious, may I refer you to my earlier statement
that also includes no "religious people suck" commentsQuote:
Originally Posted by luv2dream
It's ok, i'm not asking for opinions based on religion or anything, the only reason I brought up religion was because i used the word "sin" other than that, all I wanted was peoples' opinions, so I dont mind if you or anyone else who aren't religious commentQuote:
Originally Posted by dsr
For the most part I agree. On the topic of dreams affecting one's reality, I was just trying to point out that they can affect us more than we think. It depends on the person, obviously, but one should be cautious to disregard their thoughts or dreams as purely fantasy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oneironaught
As just a personal example, I've forbidden myself from listening to Evanesence. There were certain songs I was listening to when I was in a foul mood and it only made it worse, but I didn't stop so I became more depressed. So I broke the CD (a burned one). The same thing can happen when I get angry. It was even worse when I was going through my moral crisis... but that time's passed... and it was a doozy!
My personal opinion would be that it could come down to the religion or personal beliefs. for example christians have more crazy ass rules than blockbuster and for example if you're christian you can't masturbate but everyone does it anyways and when you ask a pastor or priest if its a sin they say its cool (well at least some). i don't know about other cultures but maybe it could alsp depend on what your beliefs are. i think that it comes down to what your personal values and morals are and what you consider to be good or bad. just like if a 9 yr or pushes an old lady into a highway from a helicopter in a dream it might seem funny and amusing to him but when he matures he will see that that is a cruel and immoral act.
Christians cant masturbate? then how come catholics and mormons have such big families?Quote:
Originally Posted by SEBSTER
to religious people, EVERYTHING is a sin.
Christians can masturbate. It is said somewhere, that we shall not waste our semen, but it is proven, that we have, in theory, infinite semen. We can't just run out of it for good because of masturbating.
Religious Jews and Catholics supposedly don't masturbate because it has to do with not wasting "seed." For the same reason, some members of the aforementioned groups won't use condoms. This for example came up in a Google search: http://www.truekabbalah.org/pages/documents/k00029.htm. However, the kabbalah doesn't always represent the views of the mainstream Jewish communities and certainly not that of Catholics.
you are joking right?Quote:
Originally Posted by a_pirates_life_for_me
No... I am a christian and I am reading the bible. I come to the conclusion that dreams are not your "physical body" and you are judged by the things you do to other people in REAL WAKING LIFE... I have killed people in my dreams so I dont suffer from guilt because, I know I wont do it in real life...
Than again it does say in Mark 12:30 "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength." Now loving God would be obeying him and you wouldnt rape someone... However, like I said your not really raping someone except yourself because, who you rape in your dream is in your mind.
Just no the difference between right and wrong in waking life and try not to do anything sinful in waking life and you should be fine in my belief... Now if your raping someone you know in waking life yea thats sinful because, you lust with that person and you committed adultery... Fetishes and Fantasy's of people you know or know off is a NO but if it is your own creativity than I dont see a problem...
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Masterbation is an immoral act because, if you think of it your loving yourself in a shameful way. It can be both lust of yourself and sloth. Think about it your to bored and need to relieve that boredom so you "unzip and double click."
that's painting with a pretty broad brush, wouldn't you say?Quote:
Originally Posted by hbash089
yes, that would be sarcasm, next time I'll put a :rolleyes: so people know. I was just saying that to prove that they CAN masturbateQuote:
Originally Posted by JFK
Yes I believe you would be accountable for what you choose to do in a lucid dream. The bible condemns anyone "loving violence" and if you are fantasizing about it or killing people in a lucid dream than you sinning according to the bible.
Take note of what Jesus said:
Matthew 5:28- "But I say to you that everyone that keeps on looking at a woman so as to have a passion for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart."
Mark 7:21: "for from inside, out of the heart of men, injurious reasonings issue forth: fornications, theiveries, murders, adulteries, covetings, acts of wickedness, deceit, loose conduct, an envious eye. blashpemy, haughtiness, unreasonableness. All these things issue forth from within and defile a man
Jeremiah 17:9: "The heart is more treacherous than anything else and is desperate. WHo can know it?
Why don't you ask Jesus not to consider your LDs sinful. Remember, whatever you ask for, he will deliver. Problem solved?
Lonewolf, killing someone in an LD doesn't mean you love violence. Does playing Grand Theft Auto (or any video game rated T or M, for that matter) doom you to hell?
Well, dont rely on the Bible for answers. Its unclear and symbolic. It teaches you to love your neighbour but also tells you to kill homosexuals (very popular among fondumentalists). Thats if your a Christian.
Secondly, the game argument is the best one in this thread. And no, a video game is not diffrent than LDs ( other than compared to LDs it has VERY bad graphics,sound and it limits you to specific actions ). And you dont feel bad about it when you kill someone in a video game... Why not? Because no one got hurt and you didnt really do it.
In a LD, it is simmilar, well ok, I wouldnt play a video game which involves raping... But heck, even that is a videogame. So in a LD its the same. You didnt hurt no one and thats the point.
Now there is the question of you feeling bad about your actions in LDs. Well, thats got absolutely nothing to do with sin, but with you feeling bad about yourself...
Besides, whats with all the sin. God is all forgiving, he doesent punish us... Oh, that depens on which part of the Bible you read... Oh well :P
well MoD has a point in the fact that its up to us to feel good or bad about certain actions we do in dreams. i mean who twisted your arm and told you to rape your neighbor's busty daughter in your dream? no one beat you into pushing that little deffenseless boy into a giant shredder. the way we feel and the way we judge ourselves is up to us.
Oh and how come were only talking about Christianity? what about Buddists or Muslims or Jews or any other religion?? how do they feel about dream actions such as sex and murder?
If you believe that it is sinful to entertain the thought, also known as wanting to sin then yes it would be.
The video game analogy comes down to why you're doing it. And at heart, all video games are some form of problem solving.
The violence in my dreams stems from the joy of movement and the thrill of a good challenge. Most of the time, my opponents and I hold back our blows before we connect, so we can keep fighting longer.
Doing it out of hatred is an entirely different matter.
With enough patience and concentration, we could all be fondu-mentalists.Quote:
Originally Posted by MoD
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v5...umentalism.jpg
We could go in a completely different argument about Christianity and what not... The basic message is there "to love" not "to rape" because, than it turns into a lustful act and the whole of humanity can agree it is wrong...
Also it is mentioned in the Bible that God's Spirit(Holy Spirit) dwells within you 24/7 so to do such an act in a LD would be wrong b/c you have control over it.
So my suggestion to remedy that problem would be instead of lust to dream about Unconditional Love and from that Love a state of Bliss and making LUST feel WEAKER than Love and that being incorporated into your own being. From writing this I came to a conclusion from the Religious Point of View on Lucid Dreaming:
"Lucid dreaming is power given to you by God in order to strengthen your mind and heart. From seeing your greatest fear and weakness suddenly being turned into your greatest strength and valor. It is a time when God talks to you and gives you answers to questons. A dream is like a friend who speaks different language. Once you understand the dream that friend is more valuable. So a dream in it's self is a lesson in understanding."
Theres a verse in the bible that mentions strengths n' weaknesses... 1 Corinthians 1:27 "But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong."
I'm not into any sort of formal religion but, I've got to hand it to you: I kind of like that. Yeah, I do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbo9889