Thread: would it be a sin?

In my opinion, it's ok to experiment dangerous things, as long as it's in a dream. I don't think a simple dream would be considered a sin. I mean, as long as you're not serious about it and not planning on using it as training for reality, then I think a simple dream-experiment is no sin. But I'm not of any religion (I don't think), so anyone may correct me.

But raping's a little too far...

Well there's no such thing as a Sin. That's just a way some people choose to perceive something on what they're conditioned to believe is right or wrong & I think most of us judge it pretty well (I'm sure you're not a rapist).

In dreamstate all you have is you, your inner self & everything outside created from it so you're only playing with yourself.

There are no rules.

Its not a sin but I feel bad doing bad things in dreams just like I would in real life. For example say I blow something up in a dream and accidentally kill someone I feel bad even though I know the persons imaginary. Whenever I beat someone up in a dream for the fun of it I usually regret it and feel bad despite the fact its just a dream.

Nah, it's not a sin.

If you were to do that intentionally on a regular basis, however, like that was your motivation to LD, then I would have questions.

put it this way....i've killed trillions of people in video games...but I wouldn't consider those sins....thats the way i look at it.

Originally Posted by Psylis

put it this way....i've killed trillions of people in video games...but I wouldn't consider those sins....thats the way i look at it.

true, i never thought of it that way, cause in video games you're still intentionally killing someone.

Maybe, if you like rapped them and murdered their family, probably. But in lucids ive never had to rape a girl. They fall in love with me when i want them to. (little trick i learned

lol everyone's making raping comments now!

Originally Posted by a_pirates_life_for_me

lol everyone's making raping comments now!

yeah haha, dont worry i'm definately NOT a rapist! :p

Originally Posted by COSMIC

Well there's no such thing as a Sin. That's just a way some people choose to perceive something on what they're conditioned to believe is right or wrong

you mean like just how someone perceives the mistakes they've made? kinda like how calories dont really exist, they're just a way to measure how much of whatever it is is in something... i think

As a Christian, I do believe in the notion of sin, so here's my take on it. When you're awake, you are making conscious decisions that you are accountable for. However, in a normal dream, you are not conscious and your mind makes decisions and projects images and scenarios that are not (for the most part) under your control. When you're lucid, though, I would consider that the same as being awake/conscious and you are making decisions.

Ergo, if you did something you knew was wrong in real life, it would be wrong to do in an LD. Let me know if you have any other questions.

If it feels wrong in your dreams then don't do it. But, since you can't hurt anyone in a dream, I would't call it "sin". It's your dream and your morals. Do what feels right to you.

Now, I wouldn't encourage you do go around raping in your dreams because it teaches you that if you want something you just take it. But still, if you can keep that attitude confined to only your dream world then I don't see much harm in it.

If the bible is the source of all gods rules and stuff, check it for dreaming. If there is nothing about dreaming, then there are no rules.

I am a Christian as well, and since I've considered this myself (very good question!) I'll answer seriously.

"I the Lord search the heart and examine the mind, to reward a man according to his conduct, according to what his deeds deserve." ~ Jeremiah 17:10

"You have heard that it was said, 'Do not commit adultery.' But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart." ~ Matthew 5:27, 28

"The the Lord said to him, 'Now then, you Pharisees clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside you are full of greed and wickedness. You foolish people! Did not the one who made the outside make the inside also? But give what is inside the dish to the poor, and everything will be made clean for you." ~ Luke 11:39-41

"You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires; to be made new in the attitude of your minds; and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness." ~ Ephesians 4:22-24

"Therefore, prepare your minds for action; be self-controlled; set your hope fully on the grace to be given you when Jesus Christ is revealed. As obedient children, do not conform to the evil desires you had when you lived in ignorance. But just as he who called you is holy, be holy in all you do; for it is written: 'Be holy, because I am holy.'" ~ 1 Peter 1:13-16

Plenty of stuff in these verses, but we're only looking at one specific thing: that sin can be independent of action.

The first verse shows us something important: that God examines your heart and mind. To put it simply, he looks beyond how you act to examine what motivates those actions. After all, in a literal and philosophical way what you think will affect how you act. God examines your mind and rewards you for your deeds.

The second verse reveals rather blatantly that you don't have to commit a physical act to be guilty of a sin. Some of the sharper readers will catch the words "look at a woman" and say that you are actually doing something physical, but it goes beyond that. You don't have to sleep with a woman to be guilty of adultery, you don't have to murder your brother to be guilty of murder, keeping the law goes beyond the actions, you must keep the spirit of that law.

The third quote is likely the most important. Everyone knows what the Pharisees were guilty of: hypocrisy. The same thing is being stated here (though Christ doesn't actually call them hypocrites) that even though the Pharisees never broke their laws in deed, they never kept the spirit of them in their hearts.

Fourth verse simply shows that your mind (thoughts) factors into your new life in Christ.

This is the killer, there's no real way to wiggle around the phrase "be holy in all you do." Given the above verses, I think we can conclude that one's thoughts and attitudes factor into that statement.

There are plenty of other verses which add weight to this argument, but I think these are enough. Having a lucid dream and then gleefully committing atrocious acts, even if it's all in your head and never harms anyone but yourself, is probably considered a sin.

You guys can do whatever you want with this, I just felt like adding my two cents. luv2dream I don't know what denomination you belong to or how you'd rate your faith life right now, but if you still have reservations about this prayer is a good idea.

All verses were taken from a Concordia Self-Study NIV Bible, from a Lutheran perspective (though I don't think that really affects this topic). I came up with this in about 10 minutes, I could probably do better but I'm really tired.

Good night everybody.

Originally Posted by Silvanus350

Lots of text

I'm not a christian, but from what i read there i wouldn't agree with you. You said "that God examines your heart and mind," so he sees your inner motives and morals regardless of any action you perform. This would lead me to believe that, since in lucid dreams you are essentially only interacting with your subconscious, no one is harmed. And furthermore, you are fully aware that no one is coming to harm (or the woman you are lusting over is actually just part of yourself, the ultimate form of masturbation ), god knows that you do not have ill intentions. As someone mentioned before, it’s essentially the same as killing a person in a video game. Does god look down at me for running all those people over in GTA?

Excactly, Tranquil Toad.

The game model also works great.

Hmm... I never thought about that. I couldn't tell you for sure, but it MIGHT not be... Ok, I had to ask my father and he said it wouldn't be a sin because it didn't actually happen.

I'm not a christian, but from what i read there i wouldn't agree with you. You said "that God examines your heart and mind," so he sees your inner motives and morals regardless of any action you perform. This would lead me to believe that, since in lucid dreams you are essentially only interacting with your subconscious, no one is harmed. And furthermore, you are fully aware that no one is coming to harm (or the woman you are lusting over is actually just part of yourself, the ultimate form of masturbation ), god knows that you do not have ill intentions. As someone mentioned before, it’s essentially the same as killing a person in a video game. Does god look down at me for running all those people over in GTA?

Although, I WAS thinking something like that to start with. I think that's more probable. But I don't know for sure. Maybe you should just do what feels right for you.

Originally Posted by Silvanus350

Fire and brimstone.

Not to devalue your stance here but you can't apply the same laws of conduct to dreams as you would physical - or even spiritual - life. Dreams are the realm of pure fantasy. What matters it that you are capable and mature enough to differentiate the two worlds.

Is a fiction writer bound to his conscious when spinning a fantastic yarn? No. He's bound only to his imagination. He understands that "harm", "fear", "right" and "wrong" are only concepts and conventions in the fantasy world.

It's how you think and act in waking life that determines your character. That's who you are. If dreams accurately mirrored our true selves then (and I hate to tell you this), by your God's standards, we're all going to rot and burn in hell for eternity

EDIT in bold.

Originally Posted by Oneironaught

Not to devalue your stance here but you can't apply the same laws of conduct to dreams as you would physical - or even spiritual - life. Dreams are the realm of pure fantasy. What matters it that you are capable and mature enough to differentiate the two worlds.

Is a fiction writer bound to his conscious when spinning a fantastic yard? No. He's bound only to his imagination. He understands that "harm", "fear", "right" and "wrong" are only concepts and conventions in the fantasy world.

It's how you think and act in waking life that determines your character. That's who you are. If dreams accurately mirrored our true selves then (and I hate to tell you this), by your God's standards, we're all going to rot and burn in hell for eternity

I agree with Oneironaught on this. But I also think it's wise to try and treat dream characters with respect as much as possible. At least to a certain point. It's probably not the healthiest thing, to be going around doing awful things to people in dreams on a regular basis.

Oneironaught is right. Also, during dreaming, we think in other ways. We're not ourselfs.

Its kind of a question of action over intention, which has been going on for centuries.

I honestly think that if your Beliefs tell you it is a "Sin" to steal from people, murder people, and a slew of other things...Than stealing from people, and murdering people etc. in lucid dreams, and in videogames would be a "Sin". That said, I myself am not a christian, and I do believe a good bodycount, be it in dreams, or in games, can be fun, therapeutic, and can relieve a good deal of stress at times.

Everyone, no matter who they are, has imagined killing someone or committing some horrible crime. Therefore, when one dreams such, it is the equivalent of one imagining it just more realistic. Raping someone in an LD can't be a sin because it is reflective of one's imagination, and unless you imagine the church robbery you plan to pull off tomorrow, your not sinning your just playing. Also, how do you think writers are able to describe the rape or killing they write about? they research and imagine the experience.