Hynogogic imagery < eyes NOT included

[Howie]

From an attempt to try to explain hynogogic imagery to several people, I have noted something simple that has seemed to have helped. As most of us are conditioned to perceive images, pictures or text, we usually connect that with using our eye site. The difference as I see it, is the context to how it is used. HI (Hynogogic Imagery) as a verb, would not fall under the proper context for HI. To perceive HI, you do not perform any actions or use your eye site or ability to see. (HI) differs from that of our images and data collected via our eye site. HI takes no conscious action from the person involved. Many of the synonyms below are applicable but NOT do to any effort on our part. Our subconscious manifests many of these events and, again, on an unconscious level, the images begin to appear ----IN THE MIND. .Synonyms: anticipate, apprehend, call up, conjure up, create, divine, dream up, envisage, envision, fancy, feature, foresee, head trip, image, imagine, objective, picture, reflect, see, think, view, vision When we try to perceive these images, or HI images, they often do not appear because just that; we are trying. To comprehend HI on a conscious level, attempt to displace any of the patterns and images with the eye itself. The HI images occur in our head, our minds. This entire concept can also apply to hynogogic sounds or (HS). Replace "eyes" with ears. ▪ Explain HI & HS in your own words or tweak my muddled up vision. -verb

[DreamChaser]

From an attempt to try to explain hynogogic imagery to several people, I have noted something simple that has seemed to have helped. As most of us are conditioned to perceive images, pictures or text, we usually connect that with using our eye site. The difference as I see it, is the context to how it is used. HI (Hynogogic Imagery) as a verb, would not fall under the proper context for HI. To perceive HI, you do not perform any actions or use your eye site or ability to see. (HI) differs from that of our images and data collected via our eye site. HI takes no conscious action from the person involved. Many of the synonyms below are applicable but NOT do to any effort on our part. Our subconscious manifests many of these events and, again, on an unconscious level, the images begin to appear ----IN THE MIND. .Synonyms: anticipate, apprehend, call up, conjure up, create, divine, dream up, envisage, envision, fancy, feature, foresee, head trip, image, imagine, objective, picture, reflect, see, think, view, vision When we try to perceive these images, or HI images, they often do not appear because just that; we are trying. To comprehend HI on a conscious level, attempt to displace any of the patterns and images with the eye itself. The HI images occur in our head, our minds. This entire concept can also apply to hynogogic sounds or (HS). Replace "eyes" with ears. ▪ Explain HI & HS in your own words or tweak my muddled up vision. -verb Thanks Howie. Glad someone stood up to the challenge of explaining this properly. To extrapolate though. We all are initially staring at the darkness that is the back of our eyelids. How are we to automatically see the HI not from here? How does it transition to our mind vision?

[Spartiate]

Thanks Howie. Glad someone stood up to the challenge of explaining this properly. To extrapolate though. We all are initially staring at the darkness that is the back of our eyelids. How are we to automatically see the HI not from here? How does it transition to our mind vision? If you close your eyes right now (don`t fall asleep ), can you imagine up some scenery? HI is basically an unconscious visualization. Here`s a good quote: The visual pathway is not a one-way street. Higher areas of the brain can also send visual input back to neurons in lower areas of the visual cortex... As humans, we have the ability to see with the mind's eye -to have a perceptual experience in the absence of visual input. For example, PET scans have shown that when subjects, seated in a room, imagine they are at their front door starting to walk either to the left or right, activation begins in the visual association cortex, the parietal cortex, and the prefrontal cortex - all higher cognitive processing centers of the brain.

[Howie]

Spartiate, thanks for putting some science behind that! Thanks Howie. Glad someone stood up to the challenge of explaining this properly. To extrapolate though. We all are initially staring at the darkness that is the back of our eyelids. How are we to automatically see the HI not from here? How does it transition to our mind vision? Thank you DreamChaser You do not stare at anything. You don't "do". I like this quote even though it pertains to listening it follows along the same train of thought. "Listening is such a simple act. It requires us to be present, and that takes practice, but we don't have to do anything else. We don't have to advise, or coach or sound wise. We just have to be willing to sit there and listen." As our conscious, wakeful mind begins to give way to our unconscious, or I like to call it the subconscious mind, the abstract begins to take hold. As a result the images. The closer you are to entering the sleep state the more dream like the images get. So like in a dream, you see, but you are not using your eyes to do so. (In a literal sense) It is a figment of our imagination and derivatives of our subconscious renderings.

[DreamChaser]

Spartiate, thanks for putting some science behind that! Thank you DreamChaser You do not stare at anything. You don't "do". I like this quote even though it pertains to listening it follows along the same train of thought. "Listening is such a simple act. It requires us to be present, and that takes practice, but we don't have to do anything else. We don't have to advise, or coach or sound wise. We just have to be willing to sit there and listen." As our conscious, wakeful mind begins to give way to our unconscious, or I like to call it the subconscious mind, the abstract begins to take hold. As a result the images. The closer you are to entering the sleep state the more dream like the images get. So like in a dream, you see, but you are not using your eyes to do so. (In a literal sense) It is a figment of our imagination and derivatives of our subconscious renderings. Cool. Ok. So we are relaxed in bed and at the moment looking at our backeyelids. We don't want this, even though we can see sort of HI on the backs of our eyelids right. We don't do anything. Aren't we liable to fall asleep or something? Do we dissreguard the backs of the eyelids to imagine scenes in our minds eye? What I mean is if we don't do anything we end up looking at our eyelids. Hope this common thought process makes sense. Don't mean to sound perdantic.

[Howie]

Cool. Ok. So we are relaxed in bed and at the moment looking at our backeyelids. We don't want this, even though we can see sort of HI on the backs of our eyelids right. We don't do anything. Aren't we liable to fall asleep or something? Do we dissreguard the backs of the eyelids to imagine scenes in our minds eye? What I mean is if we don't do anything we end up looking at our eyelids. Hope this common thought process makes sense. Don't mean to sound perdantic. It can be and is often a seemingly simple topic, but it is not. Take a look at the HIT technique itself, see if that helps any. When you say you are looking at your eyelids. You are in an attempt to see something. If you do not look at anything, images will manifest. "Liable to fall asleep" Good point. That is the key. You have to find the happy medium that allows you to have a conscious awareness of the process that is unfolding, the HI - yet at the same time, allow your subconscious to take you to into sleep...aware, conscious, and lucid. It is a form of a WILD. It is wake initiated.

[soadfreak2121]

Is it like, when you imagene something in your head?Is that what HI looks like?

[DreamChaser]

It can be and is often a seemingly simple topic, but it is not. Take a look at the HIT technique itself, see if that helps any. When you say you are looking at your eyelids. You are in an attempt to see something. If you do not look at anything, images will manifest. "Liable to fall asleep" Good point. That is the key. You have to find the happy medium that allows you to have a conscious awareness of the process that is unfolding, the HI - yet at the same time, allow your subconscious to take you to into sleep...aware, conscious, and lucid. It is a form of a WILD. It is wake initiated. In that HIT technique it says "Step Two: As you begin to relax close your eyes and observe any visual images that will gradually appear. Don't concentrate on any one image. Just let the images flow and watch how they begin and end. You will at first see fleeting patterns and images. As these images progress, they will develop into scenes that become more similar to a dream scene. More complex. At this point you are beginning to crossover from a wakeful state into a sleeping state." Again, "as you begin to relax and close your eyes and observe visual images." How do you do that if you are not looking at anything? Eyelid blackness for eg. Do you mean blur your eyes with them shut to not be able to look at anything, but then how do you see the images. It is all a little confusing. Are we not looking at our eyelids when we close them, does it automatically transition to your mind view? (thank you for your patience Howie)

[Bonsay]

Is it like, when you imagene something in your head?Is that what HI looks like? Well actually I get 2 versions of HI. One is the inside head one, the other type is a real hallucination. So I see it "with my eyes". The first type is like daydreaming, without actually doing it consciously. It can turn into a real hallucination if I lose consciousness.

[DreamChaser]

Well actually I get 2 versions of HI. One is the inside head one, the other type is a real hallucination. So I see it "with my eyes". The first type is like daydreaming, without actually doing it consciously. It can turn into a real hallucination if I lose consciousness. Thanks Bonsay. First question: So how do you know when it is the inside of your eyes, or when it is inside your head? Second question: How does the daydreaming hallucination differ from a real one? (I am formulating my technique from all the answers here)

[Bonsay]

The second type, which I believe is the real HI, is something that actually is in my field of vision. Example: I lay down, close my eyes. I start seeing floating colours, then I start seeing simple images. Like faces, cars, people walking etc. Don't know how else to explain it, they are just images/hallucinations. The daydreaming type, or the one I see "inside" my head, is the one I see with my minds eye. It's like visualisation. Just imagine an apple. You probably don't see the apple on your table as if it was real, but you still see it somewhere inside your mind. I hope I explained it well enough. The simple explanation: On type I actually see, the other type I see inside my mind.

[DreamChaser]

The second type, which I believe is the real HI, is something that actually is in my field of vision. Example: I lay down, close my eyes. I start seeing floating colours, then I start seeing simple images. Like faces, cars, people walking etc. Don't know how else to explain it, they are just images/hallucinations. The daydreaming type, or the one I see "inside" my head, is the one I see with my minds eye. It's like visualisation. Just imagine an apple. You probably don't see the apple on your table as if it was real, but you still see it somewhere inside your mind. I hope I explained it well enough. The simple explanation: On type I actually see, the other type I see inside my mind. Thanks, so the HI swirling images and stuff when you close your eyes is what leads to more finite images and eventually to dreams, whereas the minds eye is for our own specific imagining images we put there ourself on purpose (but is not the real HI for dreaming). So basically don't imagine or use the minds eye when WILDing etc?

[Bonsay]

...whereas the minds eye is for our own specific imagining images we put there ourself on purpose (but is not the real HI for dreaming). So basically don't imagine or use the minds eye when WILDing etc? Actually imagining with your minds eye is said to improve and speed up the developement of HI. As I said before, it happens from time to time that I start seeing, what I imagine, in HI form. It differs from person to person, some don't have any HI, but instead have other hypnagogic hallucinations. If you happen to experience lots of HI, perhaps you should explore that area. If you ask me for my opinion, I suggest either just being still, not thinking and waiting for a WILD, or try to use your imagination to develop a dream scene or enhance your HI. Be carefull not to fall unconscious though. If you have HI, don't look directly at the images, instead look past them without focusing on anything but the "eternal blackness" in the background. That also helps.

[DreamChaser]

Actually imagining with your minds eye is said to improve and speed up the developement of HI. As I said before, it happens from time to time that I start seeing, what I imagine, in HI form. It differs from person to person, some don't have any HI, but instead have other hypnagogic hallucinations. If you happen to experience lots of HI, perhaps you should explore that area. If you ask me for my opinion, I suggest either just being still, not thinking and waiting for a WILD, or try to use your imagination to develop a dream scene or enhance your HI. Be carefull not to fall unconscious though. If you have HI, don't look directly at the images, instead look past them without focusing on anything but the "eternal blackness" in the background. That also helps. Thanks Bonsay. So in essence keep the body still and eyes closed, and try to fleet out any thoughts and keep a thoughtless mind with the only intention of keeping awake till you get drawn in. (don't care if it is eyelids/blackness/minds eye etc, right?) Getting close?

[Bonsay]

The magic here is that there are no rules. You have to experiment. If you have good concentration you can try to focus on your imagination and think up a scene untill you actually dream it. If you are a meditator and can keep your mind still you can just sit there and wait. If you get lots of HI, you can do something else (like the stare through the images technique) and wait for it. So the essence is experimentation and personal experience. That's also the reason you see lots of OELID and PFFTILDs, which are basically WILDs and DILDs. They just happen to work for that person and perhaps some other people. Observe what happens when you try to WILD and then apply some techinques or make up your own. Good luck!

[DreamChaser]

The magic here is that there are no rules. You have to experiment. If you have good concentration you can try to focus on your imagination and think up a scene untill you actually dream it. If you are a meditator and can keep your mind still you can just sit there and wait. If you get lots of HI, you can do something else (like the stare through the images technique) and wait for it. So the essence is experimentation and personal experience. That's also the reason you see lots of OELID and PFFTILDs, which are basically WILDs and DILDs. They just happen to work for that person and perhaps some other people. Observe what happens when you try to WILD and then apply some techinques or make up your own. Good luck! Thanks so much Bonsay and Howie. Any more help that you can give here if you think of it is welcome.

[Bonsay]

Not much more I can say, unless you have some questions. I have some intresting threads by Sythix here, if you are interested in WILDs and HI. Inducing Trance To Wild - Part 1 Inducing Trance To Wild - Part 2

[DreamChaser]

Not much more I can say, unless you have some questions. I have some intresting threads by Sythix here, if you are interested in WILDs and HI. Inducing Trance To Wild - Part 1 Inducing Trance To Wild - Part 2 These Sythix links are great and I have used them to date. They have really helped, up to the part beyond the imagery. That is why the questions on where to focus or not focus etc. If you re-read his tuts (mainly part 2), you will understand what I mean concerning what we have recently sort of clarified.

[AURON]

Okay...then someone explain this...it doesn't happen often, but sometimes when I wakeup, like right after a dream, I'll look around and I'll see things on the wall that sometimes looks like writing...once it looked almost like puddles on the wall...and no matter where I look around in my room i'll see those same images...normally it'll last mabye about 10 seconds or so...and I'm just like "WTF"...and then it goes away. And yes, during the entire time I'm awake...theres no FA's or anything like that.

[Bonsay]

Hypnagogic imagery. Or is it hypnopompic? Since it's in the morning. Same thing as discussed above.

[Howie]

Okay...then someone explain this...it doesn't happen often, but sometimes when I wakeup, like right after a dream, I'll look around and I'll see things on the wall that sometimes looks like writing...once it looked almost like puddles on the wall...and no matter where I look around in my room i'll see those same images...normally it'll last mabye about 10 seconds or so...and I'm just like "WTF"...and then it goes away. And yes, during the entire time I'm awake...theres for FA's or anything like that. Well this could be a few things. Due to the fact that we wake up after we are dreaming, you may have dream like, subconscious and abstract visuals at the forefront of your mind. As you wake, this is then translated into a true visual (opposite of what we have been discussing) Much like staring at the TV and then shutting it off, the images remain for a brief period. The other a HH > is an hallucination. That can occur at the onset or at the end of a dreaming perception. ~ While conscious DreamChaser, A good point Bonsai brings up is day dreaming, Where do you see them? In your own words.

[Howie]

The HIT technique In conjunction with Jdeadevil

[Jdeadevil]

Lol, thanks for lynking me to it.