Day Dreaming and Lucid Dreaming...Connection?

[Paradox-db3]

For those who lucid dream regularly, or are at least capable of it from time to time, do you day dream also? This was something that just popped in my head and I had to ask.

[Revan Soul]

i too would like to know the answer to this...

[Paradox-db3]

Anyone willing to answer? I'm sure of the 40 some odd people who've viewed this thread, there must be at least one or two lucid dreamers who can shed some light here.

[shotbirds]

I can day dream, but I go unaware :/.

[DreamQueen]

Well, I can lucid dream and yes I do daydream as well. In fact, I daydream a heck of a lot. So much so that I often have trouble concentrating at work coz my mind prefers to drift off to my own private universe of shoes, perfume, ice castles, and Robert Pattinson...

[SleepyCookieDough]

What is daydreaming exactly?

[deepsleep]

Well, who cant day dream? Or do you meen like, day dream in a lucid?

[Paradox-db3]

I'm not saying people can't daydream. Everyone can do it obviously, and they probably do it...maybe daily! My question was whether lucid dreamers daydream frequently...perhaps more frequently than non-LDers do. I guess I worded it wrong. My bad. And Sleepy...you know what daydreaming is. Perhaps you were thinking of something profound. But I was referring to simple daydreaming. So, of all you who can LD, would you say you also daydream a lot? And perhaps it might be a good idea to include those who cannot LD yet. I cannot LD as of yet, but I daydream constantly. I have an overly active imagination, and I dream up all kinds of things during the day. Like DreamQueen, I loose concentration on daily tasks.

[The Scrybe]

I daydream heavily and it affects my interaction with the real waking world. Though I feel Daydreaming is different to LDing I'd have to say that they are closely related, and it is much easier to achieve.

[night_watcher]

I don't have an answer to your questions, so let me reply with another question. When one daydreams, does the body go into SP? I have the feeling that it doesn't, but my daydreams don't usually entail too much detail. Also, I see daydreams as more of the mind trailing off topic, not induced as during REM. Just my thoughts.

[Snowy Egypt]

I still don't get the question that well, because everyone daydreams. How much someone daydreams, and in my case, how vivid daydreams are varies from person to person.

[eppy]

I daydream excessively. Maybe it is a lucid dreamer thing? I like daydreaming because you kind of let go of the world and go into your own little world. Which is pretty much like lucid dreaming. Things I wish were possible can be possible in day dreams and lucid dreams.

[Snowy Egypt]

It's not just a Lucid Dreamer thing. I daydreamed LONG before I knew what Lucid Dreaming was. They were just as vivid they are now. Of course, we don't know who daydreams or not IRL. It's not like people openly talk about it, or Lucid Dreaming.

[Shift]

I didn't answer because... You won't learn anything by asking a group of people entirely comprised of those with an interest in lucid dreaming whether they daydream more than other people. Plus, people who are really into this topic will answer it, people who aren't will pass it over. So there's really nothing to be gained except personal accounts of those who choose to respond.

[Paradox-db3]

I still don't get the question that well, because everyone daydreams. How much someone daydreams, and in my case, how vivid daydreams are varies from person to person. That's exactly the point. Everyone (presumably) daydreams. But to what extent? Do LDers daydream more than non-LDers? What I'm trying to establish is a connection between lucid dreaming and daydreaming, if there is one. Daydreaming involves a creative mind, and maybe the more creative a mind, the more chances of lucid dreaming. I'm not sure. Like I said, it was something on my mind and had to ask. night_watcher...no, of course the body will not go into SP while daydreaming. I daydream while performing daily work tasks, so my body is actively moving. The daydreamer's body and mind are fully awake. Am I confusing everyone with this? Sorry if I am, but when I talk about daydreaming, I'm simply talking about the mind trailing off, as you said. Are there connections between how much the mind trails off during the day and lucid dreams at night? I hope this makes a bit more sense. And eppy..."Maybe it is a lucid dreamer thing?" That's exactly what I'm trying to establish! Thanks you! I believe that there may be a connection between how much we daydream, or even wishful think, and our ability to LD. I have met some very serious people who would regard daydreaming as childish and not something any adult should do. I'll bet those people will never LD. But maybe a LDer will come aboard here and prove me wrong!

[Paradox-db3]

I didn't answer because... You won't learn anything by asking a group of people entirely comprised of those with an interest in lucid dreaming whether they daydream more than other people. That's not entirely true. If a lucid dreamer comes aboard and says, "I never daydream" then I'll know there's no connection.

[Shift]

That's not entirely true. If a lucid dreamer comes aboard and says, "I never daydream" then I'll know there's no connection. Not necessarily. It also depends on why and about what people daydream, and the same for lucid dreaming. Either way, the sample is just way too biased imo

[Snowy Egypt]

I'm with Shift. I think I get what you're trying to do, but a question like this would have to be asked on a MUCH higher and larger scale than what you would get on this site. It goes back to what I said before; It varies. Just like you're asking us, the Lucid Dreaming community, you'd have to ask those of the non-dreaming community. And I can pretty much assure you that the answers you get will be all over the scale. There may be an LDer who doesn't daydream that much, or they aren't vivid, or vise-versa. It's the same for who don't know about Lucid Dreaming. Creative people don't need LDs to be creative. They just are. If they do use them, then more power to them. If not, well how would we know. And (if you want to go this far) sometime you don't even need to be creative to have an awesome daydream. Sometimes they just come.

[Paradox-db3]

I still say that if a LDer says they don't daydream, they're proof that there's no connection between daydreaming and LDing. So then it doesn't matter what people daydream about. You getting it now? If every LDer says they daydream, THEN there's no basis for this theory. But yes, a formal survey would have to be conducted using all kinds of people. This site caters to dreamers.

[Shift]

I still say that if a LDer says they don't daydream, they're proof that there's no connection between daydreaming and LDing. So then it doesn't matter what people daydream about. You getting it now? If every LDer says they daydream, THEN there's no basis for this theory. But yes, a formal survey would have to be conducted using all kinds of people. This site caters to dreamers. But if you don't know what the connection is, how can you say that? Anyway, I'm not arguing about this, I'm just saying why I didn't post. Plus, "So there's really nothing to be gained except personal accounts of those who choose to respond."

[Snowy Egypt]

One dreamer? Is one dreamer going to be enough for you? This goes back to the fact that a topic, on a forum with 1,700 active members is not large enough to hold this kind of investigation. Even if one person told you they don't daydream, that doesn't mean there isn't a connection. I don't put it past scientists to find one, if they haven't already. I actually read a really interesting article about daydreams the other day. I'll try to find it again; it was really thought provoking.

[John11]

I'm one LDer that rarely daydreams. I tend to be very focused during the day. My mind only wanders when I go to bed. I'm with Shift and Snowy though. I don't think this can really tell you anything definitively.

[Paradox-db3]

Well, it can tell me that daydreaming has nothing to do with lucid dreaming, if there is a lucid dreamer who does not daydream, like yourself. It's really not that hard to figure out...let's say a primitive society wants to know if there's a connection between gravity and sunlight. In the mid day sun, they each throw a ball up in the air, and the ball falls every time. Thus, they conclude that the sunlight has something to do with this. The size of the ball does not matter. Nor does the color. Just that they have all agreed that the sunlight plays a crucial role in making the ball come back down. Now, one of those people...yes, just one...throws a ball into the sky at night time, and the ball still comes down. Just because 99% of the people threw their ball up during the day, doesn't mean there's a connection between daylight and gravity. Because now, there's one person who proves that daylight has nothing to do with it. Is it...c-l-i-c-k-i-n-g...in yet? So now, if there's one lucid dreamer...just one...who can have lucid dreams and not be in the practice of daydreaming, that must mean there's no connection. There must be another common factor. Lucid dreams and daydreams must have nothing to do with each other, even if 99% of lucid dreamers daydream. It just makes such clear sense to me. Am I being misunderstood, or is my logic flawed? Anyway, John11, thank you. You have given me enough reason to believe that daydreams are not a prerequisite to attaining lucidity. ***EDIT*** The basic method for testing any theory is to first come up with a theory and then test it in more than one way, unless it fails after the first test, in which case it is deemed not a fact, as this theory of mine. And testing the theory with a group of dreaming enthusiasts is, indeed, a great place to start, after thinking on it some more.

[SleepyCookieDough]

What I meant when I asked what Daydreaming was, I meant, is it actually dreaming during the day or just having visualisations/fantazing or whatever you want to call it?

[Shift]

Well, it can tell me that daydreaming has nothing to do with lucid dreaming, if there is a lucid dreamer who does not daydream, like yourself. It's really not that hard to figure out...let's say a primitive society wants to know if there's a connection between gravity and sunlight. In the mid day sun, they each throw a ball up in the air, and the ball falls every time. Thus, they conclude that the sunlight has something to do with this. The size of the ball does not matter. Nor does the color. Just that they have all agreed that the sunlight plays a crucial role in making the ball come back down. Now, one of those people...yes, just one...throws a ball into the sky at night time, and the ball still comes down. Just because 99% of the people threw their ball up during the day, doesn't mean there's a connection between daylight and gravity. Because now, there's one person who proves that daylight has nothing to do with it. Is it...c-l-i-c-k-i-n-g...in yet? So now, if there's one lucid dreamer...just one...who can have lucid dreams and not be in the practice of daydreaming, that must mean there's no connection. There must be another common factor. Lucid dreams and daydreams must have nothing to do with each other, even if 99% of lucid dreamers daydream. It just makes such clear sense to me. Am I being misunderstood, or is my logic flawed? Anyway, John11, thank you. You have given me enough reason to believe that daydreams are not a prerequisite to attaining lucidity. ***EDIT*** The basic method for testing any theory is to first come up with a theory and then test it in more than one way, unless it fails after the first test, in which case it is deemed not a fact, as this theory of mine. And testing the theory with a group of dreaming enthusiasts is, indeed, a great place to start, after thinking on it some more. It's not c-l-i-c-k-i-n-g yet. This is hardly a theory, like your many other posts. Again, if you have no idea what the connection between the two is, how can you possibly say that one LDer who doesn't daydream means anything? If you are going to keep talking about science and logic, then you should probably learn more about scientific logic and reasoning. Perhaps those who frequently daydream often have a higher chances of being lucid dreamers. Sometimes, but not always. So why would one person trump your hypothesis? Maybe because you are thinking in black and white, and the answer is grey. Maybe there are 200000 lucid dreamers who daydream and twelve who don't. And maybe there are 6billion daydreamers who rarely daydream, but aren't lucid dreamers, and then some who do often, but don't LD? You haven't drawn from a large enough or random enough sample to even begin to look at it in terms of logic or legitimacy. Not to mention, there are oddities and outliers in every situation. Not to mention, liars. If you don't know what causes lucid dreaming, or what causes daydreaming, how can you even talk about them in such a manner? If you have no idea what the connection is, you can't say why or if it's relevant. Maybe it's like synesthesia, so luciddreamer=daydreamer, but that one person is some sort of mutant who doesn't have that connection. Who knows. All you can say now, assuming that there is no way that that one person who doesn't daydream is some sort of mutation or god knows what, if you are sampling from a group of clones, is that being a lucid dreamer does not always mean that you are currently an avid daydreamer. This is why you are supposed to do research before you conduct an experiment or survey. What about people who daydreamed when they were younger? Do these participants have to actively daydream, or passively daydream? How are you even defining daydream in this context? I never even heard what defined a daydream, so I couldn't add my daydreaming status. Either way, your scientific logic is full of holes.