Naps?

[ollei]

I've been hearing ever since I joined this forum that Wilding during naps is a good thing, but what I don't get is the thing with the REM cycles. If you try to WILD first thing at night it gets difficult because of short REM periods, wouldn't it be the same with naps? Is my chances to WILD as great during naps as during a WBTB? Or is there a difference in the amount of REM sleep u can get? Answer please

[Shift]

I've been hearing ever since I joined this forum that Wilding during naps is a good thing, but what I don't get is the thing with the REM cycles. If you try to WILD first thing at night it gets difficult because of short REM periods, wouldn't it be the same with naps? Is my chances to WILD as great during naps as during a WBTB? Or is there a difference in the amount of REM sleep u can get? Answer please I have never heard a legitimate answer to this question, but a lot of speculation. One thing that people like to throw around is that "when you nap you instantly go into REM". I'm not sure I buy this at all, because how would your body know it was napping versus sleeping for the night? I have never seen any evidence that someone actually instantly entered REM while being monitored in a lab during naps, versus sleeping normally. You CAN dream outside of REM, but the quality and length of those dreams I don't know. So basically I think that unless you find someone who is going to dig up some primary literature that someone has written after monitoring nappers, I'm not sure you're going to be given any good answers... *goes to looks up articles on napping and REM...* Anyway here is some of my experience: September 4, 2008, 10:30-1:12 After awakening I am consciously in my dorm room and focus on not using any muscles at all. I attempt I H8 Reality's version of the VILD, in which you imagine walking and running through your home and yard. After a while this is not working, and I am hearing a high pitched beeping sound. I am brought back to my room and feel annoyed that during my nap, someone is outside honking their car horn so loudly that I can hear it through my ear plugs. I try to ignore it, but then I start seeing something on the back of my eyelids. Everything turns pure white, but I feel like I can see shapes looming. It looks like fog, and I realize that I am inside a dream! I recall the conversation in this thread http://www.dreamviews.com/community/...ad.php?t=64920 about fog, and I take a deep breath and blow it out, causing the fog to disperse. The next thing I know the beeping is the sound of horns. I am standing on a large red bridge, standing on the crumpled hood of a car. We are stationary, and the cars coming up towards us (I am looking toward the rear of the car) are honking because we are holding up traffic. I glance around, the bridge is surrounded by fog, I can't see where we are. I realize I've just successfully WILDed for the first time, and my excitement causes the dream to fade. I desperately try to hold on to the image, and return to a side view of this great red bridge. Cars are passing me, as though I am just outside of the shoulder lane. Then everything turns white and despite my blowing to try to disperse the fog again, I wake up." So, that was after awakening from another dream and within 3 hours of sleep. Most of my naps are supposed to be 1-2 hours and end up being around 5 or 6

[DreamQueen]

A lot of people on here have reported being able to WILD during a nap, but it doesn't work at all for me. I often have an afternoon nap but it's always only about 15 minutes long and I don't dream at all during it, ever. I just go completely unconscious. So unconscious I might as well be dead lol! But apparently it works for some. They're probably having longer naps than me. I think to dream you'd have to nap for an hour and a half or so. HTHs

[Shift]

Ok here's one thing I've found: Two spontaneously recalled dreams were obtained from each of 37 5s, one following a normal 8 hr. of nocturnal sleep and one subsequent to an afternoon nap. The nap dreams were significantly less aggressive (p < .005), less fantasylike (p < .02), but contained significantly more contemporary references (p < .01) and familiar settings (p < .05) than the night dreams. Nap dreams, being less dreamlike, more continuous with waking life, and less aggressive than the night dream reports closely resemble non-rapid eye movement mentation whereas the night dreams are more similar to rapid eye movement mentation. It was suggested that these dream content differences were influenced by differences in the physiological patterns of sleep during naps and nocturnal sleep, and by the phenomenological effect of sleeping at different times of day. Taub, J. (1971) Dream recalled spontaneously following afternoon naps and nocturnal sleep. Journal of Abnormal Psychology, 78, 2, 229-231

[Shift]

A lot of people on here have reported being able to WILD during a nap, but it doesn't work at all for me. I often have an afternoon nap but it's always only about 15 minutes long and I don't dream at all during it, ever. I just go completely unconscious. So unconscious I might as well be dead lol! But apparently it works for some. They're probably having longer naps than me. I think to dream you'd have to nap for an hour and a half or so. HTHs I definitely dream during my naps, I usually recall a dream after napping. But out of every nap in my life I've only managed to WILD once. Of course, I suck at WILDing

[ollei]

Shift - Thanks for giving me some clarity on this topic, I have had a lot of time on my hands lately and have been getting in to WILD, I try during a nap and a wbtb every day and have been doing so for like a week, without any luck though. Seems like you had a nice experience, but a nap that last 3H that's too heavy for me, 5-6H then I might just go to sleep If u get any more information on this don't hesitate to PM me! Or just write it here. DreamQueen - too bad, it would be convenient, I seem to have trouble just falling asleep, but during WBTB's I fall asleep too quickly. This beeing the case naps serve as a practice ground for the real deal - the WBTB. thanks for the replies guys

[ollei]

Ok here's one thing I've found: Taub, J. (1971) Dream recalled spontaneously following afternoon naps and nocturnal sleep. Journal of Abnormal Psychology, 78, 2, 229-231 Ok, so the diffrence between REM and non-REM dreams is only dream content?? Why is it then so important when doing a WBTB to wake up directly from a REM period?

[Shift]

More: The delta integrated amplitude (DIA) in nonrapid eye movement period 1 (NREMP1) of daytime naps was precisely subtracted from the NREMP1s of ensuing nocturnal sleep, indicating that the brain can retain a record of DIA expressed in sleep episodes initiated 12.5 and 8.5 hours before nocturnal sleep onset. The DIA subtraction was primarily accomplished by reduced NREMP1 duration [earlier rapid eye movement (REM) onset], suggesting that the timing of REM period 1 (REMP1) onset is controlled by delta need. This result is consistent with the hypothesis that REM sleep occurs when a stimulus for NREM has been partially depleted. Feinberg I, Maloney T, March JD. (1992) Precise conservation of NREM period 1 (NREMP1) delta across naps and nocturnal sleep: implications for REM latency and NREM/REM alternation. Sleep. 1992 Oct;15(5):400-3. (I haven't been able to access this full article, but the abstract alone sounds promising! Nap before your Lucids, kiddies! haha )

[Shift]

Ok, so the diffrence between REM and non-REM dreams is only dream content?? Why is it then so important when doing a WBTB to wake up directly from a REM period? I honestly have not done enough research to provide you with a proper answer. To lucid dream I typically just rely on reality checking. There is too much false information zooming around the LDing communities for me to really know what else to do or to waste time or energy or effort worrying about these things. I just wait until I am having a dream, and hope that I'll reality check. Often enough, it happens. Beats me what the hell stage of sleep I'm in! What I have generally read on here and on simple sites (wiki, etc) is that an NREM dream will be shorter, less vivid, and more abstract that a REM dream. That doesn't seem to be what these articles are saying, but then again I've only come across three or four. I'm beginning to think that, regarding naps, someone read about REM-onset naps and just incorrectly extrapolated it to every single nap ever, and just went nuts with the idea. I'll keep reading. I really need to do schoolwork though damn labs and papers Anyway, regarding WILDs it seems like a good approach may be to try napping quite a bit during the day, then attempting a WILD in your nocturnal sleep period... either with a WBTB or straight away. Also, napping ahead of time seems like DEILDing may be easier/quicker. This maybe supports my number one way to get lucids last year, which used to be this: I'd have an exam and get maybe four hours of sleep the night before. I'd take a ~5 hour nap around 5 pm, get up for a couple of hours, then go back to sleep. If you think about it, it's possible I was just getting a jump start on those REM periods (if they're even really required for good dreams, this is of course all speculation). I would rarely get lucid during the naps, but I would usually get lucid around 2 or 5 in the morning, very very consistently. So much in fact that I really recorded those because I was noticing a pattern (I even called it my 'recipe for lucidity'). Let's hear it for those biphasics

[ollei]

Shift - I am really glad that you put as much effort into your replies as you do, and I do understand that you don't have the answers to everything However you did help me out and I agree with you that keeping it simple might be the best thing to do, RC's has worked for me as well and i'm sure they will in the future too. Now if anyone else on this forum can provide info on naps and how they could be benificial for LD'rs please post - Or is it that the whole nap myth has been busted edit: yeahy 100 post!