Lucid Dream Vs Astral Projection

[stevetrindall]

After searching the web about lucid dreaming I came across astral projection. Most of the websites and books I have seen link LD and AP together saying that they are kind of the same thing. My question is has anyone on this forum ever had a AP and if so is it like a LD.

[Shift]

You'll find more appropriate answers in the Beyond Dreaming section of the site. The reason, I believe, the two are often grouped together is that because the WILD induction techniques appear to always be 100% identical to the "AP induction techniques" (I've no idea if there's a special name for that). IMO these people who are using lucid dream induction techniques to astral project are just consciously entering a dream, but convincing themselves that it's not a dream but some other plane of existence. So, they're not lucid dreaming, but they're entering dreams consciously. As I've said, in my opinion. Many people debate this, and it boils down often to- if you believe in AP, then you are APing. If you do not believe in AP, then these people are just dreaming. So, from my stance, an "AP experience" would be the same as a WILD, except without the knowledge that it's a dream. This will probably get moved to a place where many people disagree with me, but since you posted in Lucid Discussion that's what I think

[mrdeano]

To be honest, I knew about Astral projection before I knew about Lucid dreaming. I found a guide on how to accomplish astral projection and now looking back on it. its more or less the same technique as WILD. Obviously I didn't know it at the time. Which makes me think if astral projection is just the same thing as lucid dreaming.

[yellowlight]

I still don't understand how people can believe in such things like astral projection and different dimensions and whatnot. Anyway, it's AP for the believers, and WILD for the non-believers.

[Elkfazer]

I've found these sorts of topics quite interesting.How to prove if AP is the same as an LD or not? Firstly, anyone who claims to have an AP ability, can they tell us whether or not they were able to change their enviroment at will, much the same as in a LD, such as creating a door where previously there was none? If Yes, then it must be an LD and if No, then well...hmm, needs more studying. As the techniques as Shift mentions are practically the same, then how come WILD'ers don't always start off waking in bed in their own rooms? I know some WILD'ers could use HH or HI to enter a dreamscene, but if they focused on nothing, where would they start? Also, I read in a book that apparently trying to remember the details of a long LD after waking is meant to be quite hard, but for an AP it's meant to be really vivid and easier to remember. Again, I'm not sure on any of this, but would be good if some people here could answer some of these points.

[dreamingofdreaming]

OK first of all I know this has been brought up a thousand times AND Secondly it should probably be moved to Beyond Dreaming, however, if it is moved there then it automatically will be embraced with a biased hug so perhaps it should stay here.... I too am very curious with the disctinction between AP and LDing. I've had two experiences that were SOOOO real and vivid, I remember every detail about them and can still remember everything. They both started in my room and everything looked the same. I believe what I experienced was a very vivid WILD. I've had other WILDs where I don't start in my room but I"m sucked in by a HH and I've also had other LDs but none have ever been as clear as the two mentioned above.... So is it possible that i APd? Perhaps. But I don't really believe that. Instead, I think there are just different levels of LDing and I was lucky to experience a very high level...

[Ghost94]

Just oh my sticking saladardada What a coinsidense. WILD and AP are different things, though.. ..both need REM to work ..you execute both the same way ..both have the same sensations (but ofc the WILD ones are biological and the AP ones are spiritual) ..and many many many more things. Oh and I think that O.B.E. is yet another thing that is exacly the same. Gutdamsnit, you do all the WILD things, you do WILD, you get WILD sensations, you fall asleep, and then you have an "astral plane" that just happens to be exacly the same as a dream, but that is just a "coinsidense" that you go there right when you should go to a dream. Seeeeriosly.... WILD, AP, OBE etc. are all the same: falling asleep while keeping awareness. Dreaming. That is the truth.

[TJuulsgaard]

Just oh my sticking saladardada What a coinsidense. WILD and AP are different things, though.. ..both need REM to work ..you execute both the same way ..both have the same sensations (but ofc the WILD ones are biological and the AP ones are spiritual) ..and many many many more things. Oh and I think that O.B.E. is yet another thing that is exacly the same. Gutdamsnit, you do all the WILD things, you do WILD, you get WILD sensations, you fall asleep, and then you have an "astral plane" that just happens to be exacly the same as a dream, but that is just a "coinsidense" that you go there right when you should go to a dream. Seeeeriosly.... WILD, AP, OBE etc. are all the same: falling asleep while keeping awareness. Dreaming. That is the truth. hmm... "the truth" would be a dangerous conclusion on this subject... If you want to Astral-project you don't need the REM-phase - you need to focus yourself outside your body and going through a fully conscious body-exit is pretty difficult. Some people have made experiments with AP/OBE's: They tell a friend to put a card in a hard to reach area, the next day they tell their friend which card it was. How do you explain that? Also there have been more "scientific" experiments done where you couldn't explain how the subjects could see read a number placed inside a box in a closed room. Don't just write off astral-projections as dreams, maybe its the other way around?!? Some believe that dreams could actually be a kind of astral projections. Dream Yogis believe that to be aware in the afterlife you need to be aware in your dreams - so theres a connection.(?!) Please don't just write off AP's, give researchers on this matter some credit. They are pretty serious about it. Remember how Lucid dreaming was once a thing of mystery for those not lucky enough to experience it? (Just to makes things right: OBE are the same as Astral Projection and Etheral Projection - AP is a trip to the astral planes (some say you can go there from dreams, EP is a projection to the real time zone (almost our very own reality) and to make things even more confusing there is another term called "Phasing" but that would be almost the same as a WILD)

[Shift]

Firstly, anyone who claims to have an AP ability, can they tell us whether or not they were able to change their enviroment at will, much the same as in a LD, such as creating a door where previously there was none? If Yes, then it must be an LD and if No, then well...hmm, needs more studying. Not necessarily, because if they convince themselves that they will be powerless and that it will be just like reality, they may not have any ability whatsoever. As the techniques as Shift mentions are practically the same, then how come WILD'ers don't always start off waking in bed in their own rooms? I know some WILD'ers could use HH or HI to enter a dreamscene, but if they focused on nothing, where would they start? The no-body technique? Because WILDers use a variety of methods to enter their lucids, APers all seem to use that one and focus on that happening. And a lot of APers also talk about being accomplished WILDers. Also, I read in a book that apparently trying to remember the details of a long LD after waking is meant to be quite hard, but for an AP it's meant to be really vivid and easier to remember. Again, I'm not sure on any of this, but would be good if some people here could answer some of these points. This one I don't believe or have an answer to, not a polite one at any rate. Anyway, it's AP for the believers, and WILD for the non-believers. No, because they aren't lucid dreaming. If they were, they would know that they were in a dream, not think they were in another dimension. ..both need REM to work Neither need REM to work. Oh and I think that O.B.E. is yet another thing that is exacly the same. An out of body experience is simply the perception that your consciousness no longer resides in your physical body. This happens in dreams and in real life all of the time. These are not the same thing.

[moonshine]

It is 100% certain that dreaming, or lucid dreaming, can induce physical and visual experiences which can be mistaken for Astral Travelling or OBE's. The reasons why are fully understood. Occams razor applies.

[Ghost94]

But shift, you prolly get the idea. I just mean that AP and WILDing is the exact same thing.

[tekkendreams]

I still don't understand how people can believe in such things like astral projection and different dimensions and whatnot. Anyway, it's AP for the believers, and WILD for the non-believers. are you kidding me? the concept of lucid dreaming is crazy enough , AP is real i can tell you that ive had 3 of them and they were the strangest thing ive ever been through in my life and im pretty certain it will stay the same untill i die , although i dont believe is life after death god and all the stuff, if you do astral project when ur dead ill be looking forward to death

[yellowlight]

are you kidding me? the concept of lucid dreaming is crazy enough , AP is real i can tell you that ive had 3 of them and they were the strangest thing ive ever been through in my life and im pretty certain it will stay the same untill i die , although i dont believe is life after death god and all the stuff, if you do astral project when ur dead ill be looking forward to death If you believe then good for you. I will believe when I will have one myself (which won't happen, because it doesn't exist).

[dreamingofdreaming]

are you kidding me? the concept of lucid dreaming is crazy enough , AP is real i can tell you that ive had 3 of them and they were the strangest thing ive ever been through in my life and im pretty certain it will stay the same untill i die , although i dont believe is life after death god and all the stuff, if you do astral project when ur dead ill be looking forward to death Really, its not that crazy. Everyone dreams, every single person with a functioning brain dreams. In the thousands of dreams we have every year, some people will realize they are dreaming; hence a lucid dream. Then some people will realize they can control these lucid dreams. However, thats all it is, controlling somthing that already exists and that has been proven to exist as long as humans have been around. So just because someone has tapped into lucid dreaming that doesn't mean all of a sudden concepts like traveling to other planes and dimensions becomes a reality. I too have had two very intense experiences that felt like I went to a new dimension and left my body, but in reality I was sleeping in my bed, having a very heightened and vivid lucid dream. I think this is the main problem with the threads in BD and the theories. People have an intense LD and want to believe that it means more. I'm all for believing and thinking the "what if" but until there is more research and proof, people shouldn't be marking down AP as a fact. (which is why BD should be extended discussion ) TJuulsgaard mentioned that "several people have done the card trick and it worked" well I'd like to know who and what source you got that from. From all I've seen, I believe only one person claimed to have done it (with proof), I can't think of the thier name ATM....