The 2012 'Paradigm Shift.' Is it in its beginning stages?

In my opinion, the 2012 thing was entirely a way for New Age con artists to make money. They did the same thing with Y2K, which wasn't the first time either. And they'll wait a couple of years then do it again with another date. Theosophists and their spiritual progeny have been doing this for more than 100 years, and essentially the same thought has been around a lot longer than that.

I think that 'shifts' are possible, and in small ways they happen all the time though its hard to tell objectively. However, there are deeply ingrained natural imperatives that can't be changed as easily as transformational religious philosophies would have us believe. So their utopian attempts at change always result in false awakenings, followed by results rather uglier than what were promised. Communist genocides like in Cambodia or Ukraine are an example of this sort of thing in a secular context.

I don't think that humanity is evolving towards something better, as I argued at length in a different thread last year. If you take all of our existing religious and philosophical visions together, generally speaking they lead back to something like where we are now, in enormous cycles. If we want something better, then we need to change the cycle, and that includes our religious ideas that are a part of it.

There's a thought, almost universal among spiritually inclined people, that spiritual people are improving or 'waking up', while non-spiritual people are stuck or asleep in old patterns. I don't think this is true at all. Spiritual and non-spiritual people are connected internally, and express different aspects of the same underlying pattern. The 'spiritual' people are more aware of psychic stuff, but in other regards they're just as fucked up as everyone else. Likewise with embodied and disembodied spirits. In their own way, our gods are as blind and treacherous as the forms in the animal kingdom, notwithstanding that they are gods.

I agree with tsiouz that the existing patterns become more sophisticated, but they don't actually get better by evolution. I think its possible for things to get better, but its not in the inevitable course of evolution. And its generally not possible to make radical changes based on our current knowledge without making things worse.

I don't want to give the impression that I think there's no hope for us, as if pain and ugliness were substances that we're half made out of, blended in with our joy and beauty. I think that if you're intelligent, you're capable in some degree of recognizing the wrongness of sacrificing others to satisfy your own appetite. This knowledge doesn't come from somewhere else, its inherent in how things must work, and arises everywhere from experience. And even if you can't stop wanting to do ugly things, because you and your environment are so deeply broken, and you have no other way to live, at least you can want to want something different. For instance, even if you honestly don't care about other people, you can at least find some tiny, apathetic wish to care, and nurture that until it someday grows into caring.

I think one example of a limit of evolution is the need for social animals to trap and kill other social animals and eat them. At some level this is horrifyingly wrong. Yet in my opinion people have to eat meat, for reasons that go beyond the obvious nutritional requirements. I don't mean that all people have to eat meat (I don't currently), but some people have to. (Spiritually we're deeply interrelated with animals, and in its current form that interrelationship involves eating them. If we were to stop eating them, we'd have to satisfy those karmic connections some other way, otherwise there would be a huge break in the spiritual ebb and flow. But our bodies, including our DNA and even the forms that our laws of physics take, are built around competing for survival and feeding on those who fail. As a simple illustration, most animals depend on predators or famine to control their populations, they can't do it themselves. So we can't just change. At the same time, we can at least start recognizing the problem, and maybe make some modest steps like treating our captive food animals better, instead of raising them all juiced up on antibiotics in what are essentially animal concentration camps. And in the very long term, maybe in a universe after this one, we can remember how to eat things without killing them. By long term I don't really mean the far future, I mean that its in a place that's very far away from where we are now, in terms of the expression of physical laws and how much we must change for that to be possible.)

I realize that its psychologically counterproductive for people to be too aware of problems that they can't immediately fix. They feel horrified by how wrong things are, and guilty, and try to force themselves to change when they can not, which makes everything even worse. I guess this is a reason we need some measure of ignorance. But at the same time, people need to at least feel some kind of vision of what is ultimately possible, even if they can't understand it intellectually, because they need hope. And of course we need some kind of clue about what direction to work towards. Similar comments apply for people facing up to the wrong in their interpersonal reflexes I think.

Hi Shadowofwind

Oneironaut Zero

began this thread 2 years ago on 17-Feb-2011. HERE is the opening post:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Oneironaut Zero

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...meditation.jpg

Ok. First of all, it needs to be said that this thread is a for a serious discussion of the facts about things that are going on in the world right now. This is not a place for believers to say "See, I told you! It's happening! 2012 is coming and will affect us all!!" just as it is not a place for disbelievers to come in with their "Uh-oh. Tin foil hat alert! Magic does not exist, therefore this is invalid!" rhetoric. To put it simply; if you cannot discuss this subject maturely and/or without being a complete douche-bag about it (and I know that some people can't), then you don't deserve to take part in this conversation, and you will be 'asked' to leave it.

With that out of the way, let's get down to it.

What are some of the theories about 2012? How has it been interpreted over the years. Some have said it's the end of the world. Some say it is

a global paradigm shift;

a transition into enlightenment;

a period of 'awakening' into global consciousness.

Some say it will be the second coming of Christ.'

Are there any others that I'm missing?

Personally, I have never been one to believe in any of this - specifically the parts about the 'end of the world,' and the 'second coming of Christ. I have always been interested in the aspect of a paradigm shift, but have been completely skeptical about it.

Now, though, my skepticism of the latter is waning.

It's not that I believe current events are actually linked to the 'prophecy' - it could be pure [n]coincidence, [/b] of course - but the timing and implications of all the unrest in the Middle East is something that can't easily be ignored. These events are quite significant, and fall a little above the realm of 'well, crazy stuff happens all the time' (IMHO). At the very least, they deserve some unbiased, open-minded analysis. What fascinates me the most is how easily these events can be interpreted to fit both of the latter theories I mentioned above:

Global Paradigm Shift / Awareness:
More and more people / cultures are beginning to stand up for their human rights, and the fever is spreading like wildfire.

Thanks to technology, one uprising is leading to many, and people are beginning to get a feeling of their own self-worth, whom have never had it before. The sullen, uninspired lifestyle of living under dictatorial rule seems to be growing less and less tolerable, around the few remaining corners of the world where it still exists.

There is a bit of an 'awakening,' in that people are becoming more aware of their power to change their lives and social situations.

Second Coming of Christ / Rapture:

Before I get too far into this, let me say that I am not a religious person. At all. I figure the Bible to be a book of proposed lifestyle guidelines, by way of metaphor, and not a literal translation of things that will physically come to pass (though there have been some strange 'coincidences,' over the years). Now, taking that into consideration: What is Christ? What is the word of Christ? What are Christ's principles? As I have come to believe, it is about love. It is about interacting socially with each other and displaying a sense of brotherhood to all, regardless of who they are or where they are. It is about empathy. About separating the lines between "you and me;" "us and them."

Within these flames of revolution, we are seeing much of this. We are seeing people from all over the world showing a profound outpouring of affection and admiration for these people whom are trying to win their freedom. People are starting to wake up to the fact that, just because there are dictators in certain corners of the world, not all of the people of those regions share the same paradigms as those dictators. It is an increase in Christ's philosophy, as opposed to the evils of oppression and dictatorial rule.

I think all of this is very interesting. The timing, as I said, is fascinating - that it should happen now - after all of this time, and how it looks to be a domino effect that doesn't seem to be showing any signs of containing itself, as yet.

Another thing I find interesting is that this is all starting / happening in the epicenter of the human species. The 'Cradle of Mankind,' as some would call it.

For such wild, metaphysical predictions to coincide so greatly with actual events is rare, to say the least, and I can't help but to be intrigued by it. So I just wanted to start some discussion on it. Does anyone have anything to add? Whether you are a true believer or a skeptic (as I am), contribute what you will.

However - and I will say this again - check your arrogance at the door. This thread is for tempered discussion, not dissent, egoism nor (if possible) ignorance.

Aaannnd GO!

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Some of us were worried about what would happen to the Last Pope. Prophesy told that the Pope-line ends with a certain Pope. I heard that in 1981. I forget what number Pope it was but it was the Pope before the one just elected Today.

In 1980 we wondered if that Pope would be killed.

Now

At the end of the Myan Calendar (The End of TIME) the prophesied Pope resigned in disgust at the corruption in the Vatican.

Wow

way to end TIME.

"IT" has happened.

and when folks do my dream game they will discover the extent to which "It" has happened.

I was thinking about that prophesy today too. I remember hearing years ago that the previous pope was supposed to be the "last" pope before the church crumbles. Then he goes off and retires! That's really rare for a pope so I wonder what his true intentions are.

Hello Juroara

Jonny Cash
When the trumpet of the Lord will sound and time will be no more u

Johnny Cash - When The Roll Is Called Up Yonder - YouTube
(2:04) 69,613 news

When the trumpet of the Lord shall sound, and time shall be no more,

And the morning breaks, eternal, bright and fair;
When the saved of earth shall gather over on the other shore,
And the roll is called up yonder, Ill be there.

When the roll, is called up yonder,
When the roll, is called up yonder,
When the roll, is called up yonder,
When the roll is called up yonder Ill be there.

On that bright and cloudless morning when the dead in Christ shall rise,
And the glory of His resurrection share;
When His chosen ones shall gather to their home beyond the skies,
And the roll is called up yonder, Ill be there.

When the roll, is called up yonder,
When the roll, is called up yonder,
When the roll, is called up yonder,
When the roll is called up yonder Ill be there.

Let us labor for the Master from the dawn till setting sun,
Let us talk of all His wondrous love and care;
Then when all of life is over, and our work on earth is done,
And the roll is called up yonder, Ill be there.

When the roll, is called up yonder,
When the roll, is called up yonder,
When the roll, is called up yonder,
When the roll is called up yonder Ill be there.

R U washed in the blood and
I"ll fly away.

Are you washed in the blood / I'll Fly away - YouTube

Revelations 20:12

And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne. And the books were opened.

When the trumpet of the Lord will sound and TIME will be more.

When the roll is called up yonder - YouTube

The final Pope is here. Petrus Romamus. Pope Benedict XVI steps down

The Final Pope is Here. Petrus Romanus. Pope Benedict XVI steps down 2/11/2013 - YouTube

(55:08) 150,143 view since 19-April-2012.

Pope Francis is the last Pope, the 112 Pope in the Prophecy.

Forums strive to connect new Pope to Antichrist prophecy | Fraser Coast Chronicle

Quote:

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(...)

OPINION (WITH UPDATE):

*Internet forums descended into chaos as the new Pope was finally named at the Vatican.

Not because they were celebrating the naming of the new pontiff but because many wanted to know if there was any connection between Pope Francis and a prophecy by little-known Irish saint Malachy, who correctly predicted the previous 111 popes, including Pope Benedict, who resigned last month.

Only 112 popes were named in the prophecy, leading many to believe this Pope would be the last.
According to some interpretations of the prophecy, the last pope would be the Antichrist.
Still others believe his prophecy is about the end of times and the final judgement of the people.

(...)

Pope Francis, or Jorge Mario Bergoglio, is from Argentina and obviously chose not to have the name Peter, which was the name used by the first Pope and out of respect has not been used since.

But the name Francis does have strong ties to Italy and Rome as Francis was the name of a beloved Italian saint, Francis of Assisi.

So the internet forums were on Thursday striving to make the connection between Peter the Roman and Pope Francis.

The best I've heard so far is a vague connection between St Francis of Assisi, whose father was apparently named Peter, and the Pope's selection of his new name.
If I hear any more about how this obscure prophecy may indeed be true I will update this story - or if you do, please feel free to post your comments below.

UPDATE:*

As more information is emerging about the man elected to be the new Pope, forum fanatics are suggesting it could point to the fulfilment of Malachy's prophecy.

Much of it is tenuous, with some forum contributors suggesting that there is a link because Berg, taken from the surname of Pope Francis, means mountain and the name Peter means stone.

Several have also pointed out that the parents of Pope Francis are actually immigrants from Italy.

Others have pointed to his selection of the name Francis, after the saint Francis of Assisi.
Francis of Assisi's given name was Giovanni Francesco di Pietro (or Peter) Bernardone.

Yet another contributor has used the words of the prophecy to suggest the Pope may in fact be the Antichrist.

St Peter, the first Pope, was not Roman by birth but travelled to Rome as a missionary of Christ, the contributor writes.
St Peter was martyred there by the Romans, who were still a pagan people.
He suggests that the name Peter the Roman may be Malachy's way of naming the 112th Pope as the Antichrist because of the negative connotations Rome had with the first Pope.

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