Hello, I Am Guy, And I Wish To Achieve Clear And Fully Controlled Lds

[guysoft]

Hello, Some of you might recognize me form the IRC channel, which I was visiting recently. I'll start pointing out that I am not more of a scientist really, and I try to be logical is I can understanding the LD phenomena. I Have a faint memory of having MILDs with low control a few years ago. Far less control from what people describe here.. When I reach a point where I can LD freely, want to try and A. discover things about myself, and B. try to use this unique consciences state to analyze what I can of the universe.. this is my goal. I will also point out i have something called "Delayed sleep disorder syndrome" that means I can really have any sleeping cycles I want (but usually, I like to sleep late and wake up late)..Also I am extremely creative and sharp at night (but usually this means i get up slowly, and late in the day). However it take me time to wake up and also at least 30 minutes to fall asleep. So far I am working on improving my dream recall, and I got to 1-2 each sleep (mainly by going back over what happened with my eyes closed, and then rephrasing it in my head, like a diary, works wonderfully). What I need next is to improve the clarity, and actually go in to LD. At the moment I am trying to think which LD inducing technique is the right for me (no drugs, mucking about with sleeping cycles, etc)- what do you think?

[MSG]

OMGWTFYOUNOOBOR thats kinda wierd, I have the same thing I think. I think 38975qwi982342x better at night, and during the day I just have a headache. WILD is mostly a myth, I would try reality checks/dream journal. The dream journal is probably the best thing for you, it helped me a LOT. Reality checks are the most reliable lucid... things. Just get into the habit of doing them sometimes, a good time is before you use the bathroom. Why? I don't know, because you goto the bathroom every day anyway and its just easy to remember after a while. And plus, it will ensure you RC before you goto the bathroom in your dream... o.o;

[guysoft]

OMGWTFYOUNOOBOR thats kinda wierd, I have the same thing I think. I think 38975qwi982342x better at night, and during the day I just have a headache. WILD is mostly a myth, I would try reality checks/dream journal. The dream journal is probably the best thing for you, it helped me a LOT. Reality checks are the most reliable lucid... things. Just get into the habit of doing them sometimes, a good time is before you use the bathroom. Why? I don't know, because you goto the bathroom every day anyway and its just easy to remember after a while. And plus, it will ensure you RC before you goto the bathroom in your dream... o.o; [/b] Thanks MSG, BTW I have trouble when it comes to writing and reading text (I am more of a sound perdition when it comes to information exchange). As you see its not critical, but I find that I use much more energy when I read than listen. A didactic test (the simple one people go to see if they have a learning disability) I went though shows (repeatedly) I am weak on things like reading and writing and spelling, but much stronger than average on other skills (makes me very good in computers, logic and a few other things). That is why I rather not use a pen and write, but work on memory, or something digital if possible, I tried recording myself, but it can be problematic if I sleep in a room with people (I need to in the place where work currently) and it seems less effective because when I rephrase it, I remember it already.

[Leo Volont]

Dream Control is in various proportions myth, lie, promise and propaganda. You should read the following collection of essays on Lucid Dreaming: http://www.sawka.com/spiritwatch/tableof.htm Pay particular note to Dr. Ann Faraday's essay, as she was one of the first big name proponents of Lucid Dreaming and is very sorry now that she had contributed to the lies and misinformation: http://www.sawka.com/spiritwatch/selling.htm But, yes, people are able to assert some control over their Dreaming, but not much and not for long until the Dream Mind begins to defend its territory with False Awakenings, and finally with the complete shut down of Dream Recal. We have had one person write in and complain that although last year he had been one of the foremost experts in Lucid Dream Control, that now his dreams are one-hundred percent False Awakenings and he has trouble distinguishing between Dreaming and Reality -- he thinks he is paying his bills, going to work, making and keeping social dates, but much of this is during his Dreaming, and he can no longer keep track. One can only suppose that his friends, family, and business associates must think he is borderline insane and that they are questioning his competancy. Anyway, Welcome and we all look forward to your having all the same difficulities. You can join with the most part of us who are looking for that One Great Technique which will finally allow us to Conquer and Destroy the Dream Mind and so clear the Way for a total and independant Control of Dreaming. However, there are a few of us, or at least myself, who suppose that the Dream Mind contributes more than enough Ancient and Collective Wisdom to the Dreaming Experience, where I would be reluctant to kill it dead. and then there is the matter of the Richness of Material that we expect from our Dreams -- whether ordinary dreams, Lucid Dream, or the Big Vivid Dreams that used to be appreciated 30 years ago before anybody knew anything about "Lucid" Dreaming. If we were finally to find that One Great Technique that would allow us to Destroy our Dream Mind, would our personal conscious control of DreamDetail be able to create more than a rough sketch. The Big Millionaire Guru of Lucid Dreaming -- Stephen Labarge -- had a revealing chapter in his book which served to indict even his own propaganda about Dream Control. he had said his own efforts to Control Dreams ended in simplified and cartoonish details and scenary. So he destroyed his Connections to a Greater Mind and replaced it with... with what? So, no, I see our Dreaming as a Relationship so something Higher, Greater, Better, Wiser. It does not always give us what we want, but I feel it is giving us what we need. And it is a relationship -- Higher to Lower, or perhaps Teacher or Student. But a totally insular and personal Dream Control... does this not fixate the individual upon himself. Seems a bit too much similar to sexual masturbation -- yes it is Sex in a down to business kind of way, and the individual can do to himself exactly what he likes, but only in terms of what he has to supply... which is not all that much. And so in the Top Ten List of things that people strive for their entire lives, Masturbation is almost always not at the top of the list. So I wonder why Dream Control is so highly sought after, when it is so much simply like just jerking off.

[ilovefrootloopz]

Thanks Leo for continuing to be an asshole and scaring off people with your total Bull Shit.

[Pyrox]

WILD is mostly a myth [/b] Why do you say that?

[Kaniaz]

Why do you say that?[/b] He's not alone in that view. I'm feeling that WILD is mostly a myth too - apart from being "too good to be true" to begin with, a whole lot of people (including me) find it impossible and it's supposed to take a whole 90-100 minutes slow wave sleep before you get a piffling 5 minutes REM. People who claim they're "under" in 30 minutes either have a very vivid imagination (and are not dreaming in the sense that they are in REM), or my book neglected to mention exceptions on sleep cycles or something like that.

[Pyrox]

Then how do you explain when you dose off for a few minutes and have a quick dream? And I've been in SP within 20 minutes of attempting a WILD. EDIT: Wait you have a book?

[guysoft]

Well, that is why I went to the IRC channel before I came and posted this. I had a feeling it might cause a sensation.. First I guess Leo is right and one can't fully control his dreams (as far as I can see now).. Otherwise it might cause some kind of damage. I guess the definition I wanted is: to be fully in control of me while dreaming, so I can explore the dream world and maybe shape it in few ways. Like experimenting asking DC philosophical and other deep universal questions or trying a few things to see what will happen. Of course the question is it "LD" or ''dreaming about LD" is important here. But I guess I'll have to be LD to know that. If LD is an illusion, I'll need to prepare better what to do while LD so my wanted actions will come as habit in false-LD (and also be more sceptical). By a first glance, it looks that LD (or false-LD, dosn't matter) is far more natural than I'd expect. Evreyone I asked calims that it happend to him/her at some point, I even got a full discruption of dream control from soneone! (He didnt know nothing about LD as a phinomina, he just knew he can control his dreams, and gave all the exprinces people give here). This only makes me peruse this more. If I want to understand the universe, I guess I should have a closer look at this world (or better mode of conciseness) we spend a third of out lives in. I'll try and get the tread back on track and ask: how should i tune to have LD and have the clear?

[Leo Volont]

Thanks Leo for continuing to be an asshole and scaring off people with your total Bull Shit. [/b] And you are here to remind all the new people here that we have a Party Line to Maintain and there will be no individual thinking here. Well, that is why I went to the IRC channel before I came and posted this. I had a feeling it might cause a sensation.. First I guess Leo is right and one can't fully control his dreams (as far as I can see now).. Otherwise it might cause some kind of damage. I guess the definition I wanted is: to be fully in control of me while dreaming, so I can explore the dream world and maybe shape it in few ways. Like experimenting asking DC philosophical and other deep universal questions or trying a few things to see what will happen. Of course the question is it "LD" or ''dreaming about LD" is important here. But I guess I'll have to be LD to know that. If LD is an illusion, I'll need to prepare better what to do while LD so my wanted actions will come as habit in false-LD (and also be more sceptical). By a first glance, it looks that LD (or false-LD, dosn't matter) is far more natural than I'd expect. Evreyone I asked calims that it happend to him/her at some point, I even got a full discruption of dream control from soneone! (He didnt know nothing about LD as a phinomina, he just knew he can control his dreams, and gave all the exprinces people give here). This only makes me peruse this more. If I want to understand the universe, I guess I should have a closer look at this world (or better mode of conciseness) we spend a third of out lives in. I'll try and get the tread back on track and ask: how should i tune to have LD and have the clear? [/b] yes, one has enough 'control' over one's own actions in Lucid Dream that one can make decisions and carry out simple actions. Asking questions of Dream Characters seems like an interesting investigation. I have used Lucid Dreaming to experiment with various Meditation Techniques and Mantras. But all of that would be invalidated if we could impose control over how the Dream Characters would answer our questions, or if we could pre-ordain exactly what would happen after saying certain Mantra or performing a particular Meditation. There has got to be more Mind involved in our Dreams than could possibly be under out control. We hear all the time people talking about how we only use 10% of our Brain's Capacity. Well, to impose some 100% Dream Control would be to take the Dreams away from the 90% where they are now, and place them within the jurisdiction of the relatively retarded 10%.

[NeAvO]

Welcome to the forum

[Neil.....]

Well spose I'm on Leos side then lol... but is it a bad thing just to be able to control yourself 100% in a dream? not change whats happing around you... make things appear and chnage the entire sence... but just be able to talk to poeple and explore? if that made sence.... lol

[tiddlywink101]

his dreams are one-hundred percent False Awakenings[/b] I would have to admit that all the Lucid dreams I have sprout form false awakenings. WILD is mostly a myth[/b] I would have to disagree with you, I am finding WILD a very effective technique at the moment

[ilovefrootloopz]

And you are here to remind all the new people here that we have a Party Line to Maintain and there will be no individual thinking here. [/b] Guess again, I'm here to learn to lucid dream, and NOT SCARE OFF NEW MEMBERS WITH CRAP. Unlike you. Leo, chances are the higher dream mind exists, and it does try and prevent lucidity, but I mean confusing dream with reality? Ha. If in a year I'm confusing dreams with reality, and you're still on the forums, I'll tell you, ok?

[Davide]

WILD a myth? That really sounds a bad thing to sad...It's probably a bit more complex than other techniques, and, from what I understand, can also require more than an hour to reach sleep paralysis - unless you use WBTB, which seems to make all techniques more effective.

[tiddlywink101]

NOT SCARE OFF NEW MEMBERS WITH CRAP.[/b] I don't think Leo Volont want's to scare off new members, he does come out with some intelligent posts. I sometimes find him condecending though. Could you please stop talking down to people, Leo?

[ilovefrootloopz]

Weather he wants it or not he is scaring off new members. If I were new, and someone told me that dream control and WILDs were lies, and how you could confuse reality with dreaming and screw up your life, I'd be pretty scared.

[tiddlywink101]

I agree but a beginner should be aware of all the dangers before starting I personally think that there are no dangers, except obsession

[Bonsay]

I don't really think Leo Vont is "evil" or anything, he just has a different way of looking on our world, his own reality (which one can't proove or disproove).

[Neil.....]

I think Leos view is more intresting... I dont see how its scary... Use just worry too much... and I doubt a new person beleves EVERYTHING they read on here at first either so it woudlnt scare people off.

[Like A Bird Without Arms]

I think Leos view is more intresting... I dont see how its scary... Use just worry too much... and I doubt a new person beleves EVERYTHING they read on here at first either so it woudlnt scare people off. [/b] I find people talking about using lucid dreaming to rape people far more disconcerting than anything Leo has ever posted. Besides, Dreamviews wouldn't be the same without him.

[tiddlywink101]

I agree, Leo is like the village wiseman

[Nikolaa]

well,earlyer it took me about 1h to get close to SP,but when u see WILD logicly,it takes u les then 20

[FreeOne]

yeah you are supposed to use wild with a wbtb not right when u go to sleep. I almost got into a wild once. my ears started popping and i heard the noise of blood rushing to them. All because i decided to stay awake and not move when i woke up in the middle of the night.

[The Blue Meanie]

He's not alone in that view. I'm feeling that WILD is mostly a myth too - apart from being "too good to be true" to begin with, a whole lot of people (including me) find it impossible and it's supposed to take a whole 90-100 minutes slow wave sleep before you get a piffling 5 minutes REM. People who claim they're "under" in 30 minutes either have a very vivid imagination (and are not dreaming in the sense that they are in REM), or my book neglected to mention exceptions on sleep cycles or something like that. [/b] I can say, with 100% certainty, that WILD is not a myth. Now, while it is CERTAINLY impossible, or close to, to go straight to bed at night and have a WILD within 30 minutes, the situation is different if you WILD during a WBTB. IF you wake yourself up later on in the night and then go back to bed, this drastically reduced the amount of time spent in slow wave sleep, and allows a much faster onset of REM. I have had two successful WILDs, and quite a few occaisions when I have begun the "transition" but failed to actually get into a dream. On BOTH occaisions, I timed my attempts, both during WBTBs. Both times, starting from going to bed, and ending with waking from my LD, took less than 40 minutes. And both times, there was a continuous stream of consciousness. I'm totally convinced this isn't due to imagination or the like.