A little bit of a rant/WTF!

**k_man21** · 07-31-2007 12:57 AM

Ok so i have been looking around this site for a couple days and I have to say I have read enough stuff to blow my mind in all 8 planes of existence (learned about that). I've heard about some dude who fought some bettlejuice head during an OBE and almost died? (the truth about that is a little so-so I would say lol). Also these beings that try to trap you in their relam? By coaxing you with stuff?? Like this is all really weird and I am trying to sift through the BS. Also that born_2_kill dude is a little out there (not chiprin just makin an observation) but its all good. LD's are real I believe that i've almost had many but have stopped myself because all this weird stuff was goin down. But honestly how weird is all that like hearing voices?? I not a pussy or anything I just don't know how you guys can do it without having a heart attack, I mean if even 50% of the stuff on here is true there definatly should be a correlation between heart attacks in peoples sleep. Anyway that was my little newb rant, any feedback advice anything would be helpful

P.S. Just forgot downloaded one of those MP3's to help induce LD's even those are creepy as shit, not sure how you guys do it lol.

**tehpwner** · 07-31-2007 01:10 AM

Listen i dont believe in obes, i think there just a form of lucid dreaming anyway, after you have a couple of ld's you really have fun and those voices dont matter, and i think you are a bit of a pussy

**Scatterbrain** · 07-31-2007 01:23 AM

I have never got scared in a middle of lucid dream, but the hallucinations during sleep paralysis can freak you out good.

Like with most things, any fear you may feel will diminish the more you experience it.

**sloth** · 07-31-2007 01:25 AM

I think that the entire phrase "I don't believe in..." is retarded when referring to a particular thing.

I don't believe anything.

I don't believe that OBEs exist, but I also don't BELIEVE that they don't. That takes just as much BLIND CONVICTION. It's really very ignorant. The word is really thrown around way too much, isn't it? I would like PROOF that something does or does not exist. Even then, I probably won't believe anything based off of some human proof.
People are too quick to throw what they believe and don't believe into other people's faces. Why? Because they are important people! They are important, and they want everyone else to know just how important they are, by forcing their own opinions and believe down other people's throats.

Anyway, you do have to sift through some weird stuff on here, but lucid dreaming in itself is not only proven, but has been scientifically tested in a controlled environment. There's nothing supernatural about it.

As for OBEs.. Who knows?
Seriously... Who REALLY knows?

And if you do, you're a fool.

**SilverZero** · 07-31-2007 01:42 AM

Whoa, that's some negative thinking, k_man21. It's like you're simultaneously scared and skeptical of the whole LD scene. I hope, if you take this stuff seriously, that you have some positive experiences really soon. But I also think you might have the makings of a great mental block right now, so you might not.

Either way, welcome!

**RooJ** · 07-31-2007 01:43 AM

k_man21, if you're not really interested in the beyond dreaming stuff id suggest you stay out of the beyond dreaming section :p. As far as other phenomena like sleep paralysis and related experiences it can be scary, but it can also be really fun, you have to keep in mind its all in your head and you'll learn to enjoy it. Many people don't ever get such experiences trying to lucid dream anyway.

Welcome to the forums btw, if you're a new member.

**H Savvy** · 07-31-2007 01:56 AM

Just take things with a grain of salt, use your head, and don't take Born_2_Kill seriously, and you'll be just fine, man.

Also, welcome aboard, sailor.

**k_man21** · 07-31-2007 04:57 AM

Ahahah thanks guys, I guess everyone is scared of the unknown , but yeah I was just checkin through things and stumbled upon the weirdest stuff that if were possible would be mind blowing...but yeah I have tried a few times but I do get too excited like heart just races and breaths shorten so its pretty tough to keep your cool without waking up

**k_man21** · 07-31-2007 02:35 PM

One more quick question...whats this deal with the 'old hag' thing. I've heard stuff about it before even hearing of LD's, is it some side effect of SP? Or what is that whole thing, i've read some stories on here and its pretty errie.

pj · 07-31-2007 02:43 PM

It is a bizarre phenomenon that some people experience. I never have, and I am an avid WILDer.

What happens when you WILD is that you maintain a thread of consciousness while returning to sleep and entering a dream. That means being conscious of something that happens to all of us every time we go to sleep - Sleep Paralysis. It's a perfectly normal protection to keep us from physically doing things in our sleep. Being conscious through it, however, can get a bit weird.

Most people only experience a pleasant electric feeling during that bit. Some "sense" beings around them, and a few actually "see" the Old Hag presence.

**k_man21** · 07-31-2007 02:55 PM

Thats really weird, i've heard that if you see it that you die in really life, obviously not true. But i've heard people (on here) saying that they've had to struggle from its grip and even had bruises the next morning. So is it real or just your mind under DTM (or whatever that drug you brain releases when you dream)? I could imagine that wouldn't be the calmest moment in your life.

**SilverZero** · 07-31-2007 03:02 PM

Originally Posted by k_man21

Thats really weird, i've heard that if you see it that you die in really life, obviously not true. But i've heard people (on here) saying that they've had to struggle from its grip and even had bruises the next morning. So is it real or just your mind under DTM (or whatever that drug you brain releases when you dream)? I could imagine that wouldn't be the calmest moment in your life.

That's one thing I'm not so sure about. Bruises are caused by ruptured capillaries or, rarely, larger vessels. They're spots of bleeding under the skin. I don't know how the body could spontaneously bruise, even in people prone to bruising - some external force would have to be exerted on the spot to cause a bruise. I don't know of anybody who has caused bruising just by thinking it in waking life, so I don't know how dreaming would be any different (regarding the physical body this way).

I'm not saying it has never happened, but I don't understand how it could.

**k_man21** · 07-31-2007 03:23 PM

Well they said that they saw this old hag thing and struggled against it or whatever and said they woke up with bruises (from this thing).

**SilverZero** · 07-31-2007 03:32 PM

Originally Posted by k_man21

Well they said that they saw this old hag thing and struggled against it or whatever and said they woke up with bruises (from this thing).

Okay . . . but, again, I don't see how this could happen, physiologically. Capillaries don't just burst on their own, that I'm aware of. They might burst from direct pressure, or possibly from elevated blood pressure, but how could BP be localized to form bruises like that? I suppose there could have been a lapse in sleep paralysis (it's not that uncommon - somnambulism, etc), leading to a person hitting themselves. I, personally, just don't get how spontaneous, localized bruising could occur during sleep.

**k_man21** · 07-31-2007 03:40 PM

Well how I interpretted it, although I don't believe it, is that this hag inflicted the bruises.

**SilverZero** · 07-31-2007 03:53 PM

Originally Posted by k_man21

Well how I interpretted it, although I don't believe it, is that this hag inflicted the bruises.

Right, I get that part, but the hag was in the dream (i.e. not real). I'd never dispute somebody's account of what happened in a dream, but in the physical world, if there were bruises, I don't understand how they could have been caused, unless there was a real, physical force. The idea seems to be that the power of the dream was so great and so vivid that the "mind made it real," so to speak. And I don't know how plausible that is.

I guess I should go find the actual firsthand accounts before I start explaining them away.

**k_man21** · 07-31-2007 03:55 PM

Well I think he mentioned that he was doing some sort of OBE and that he was like awake or something weird going on. And I don't think I would suggest tryin in out lol, I'd rather leave that alone.

**SilverZero** · 07-31-2007 04:13 PM

Originally Posted by k_man21

Well I think he mentioned that he was doing some sort of OBE and that he was like awake or something weird going on. And I don't think I would suggest tryin in out lol, I'd rather leave that alone.

Oh, no, I meant go read the firsthand accounts.

Okay, sorry, I didn't mean to hijack the thread.

**k_man21** · 07-31-2007 04:21 PM

Ahahah np, I appreciate the discussion, so how vivd are these LD's like is it as if it were in the waking world or is it more like when you dream normally but you know you're controlling it?

**Adam** · 07-31-2007 04:46 PM

LDs range in vividness, sometimes you get hazy ones, othertimes, you can loose lucidity because they are too life like. Nothing really to be scared off really either. SP the first couple of times can be scary if you are not used to them or know what they are. But lucid dreaming is an amazing thing to do, and if done well, is worth learning if you can.

Welcome to the forum all the same

**k_man21** · 07-31-2007 04:58 PM

Cool thanks a lot.

**k_man21** · 07-31-2007 05:10 PM

Would you guys suggest a DILD to start out? I have tried the WILD technique but I usually just try it right when I go to bed. I have got to SP but the vibrations caused to much excitement and I stuggled to keep my eyes closed because they were vibrating. I had the sounds and stuff (sounded like I was flexing my head/ears if you know what i mean lol). Another time I was taking a nap infront of the TV where some psychic show was on TV when I drifted to sleep and I immediately felt like i was falling through the couch and I had this overwhelming feeling that i was turning into a psychic (lol) and I did not want that at all so I tried to yell but all that came out was a little grumble (sort of like the ghost things in the grudge movie). But thats about all I have experienced. I think I DILD would be better but isn't it harder/raandom when they occur? LIke I rememeber my normal dreams and can think back and say "well that didn't make any sense" but I can't recognize that in the dream to be able to do an RC or know that I am dreaming.

pj · 07-31-2007 06:50 PM

WILD was hard for me to get. DILDs seem to be the way most get their first lucids. It is a good choice to concentrate on first.

By the way - I've died in my dreams more than once and am still here to talk about it.

**k_man21** · 07-31-2007 07:07 PM

Ahahah thanks, and thats good to know.

**SilverZero** · 07-31-2007 08:58 PM

Would you guys suggest a DILD to start out? I have tried the WILD technique but I usually just try it right when I go to bed.

I think WILDs are more effective with the WBTB technique. But I don't really know, I just have read in most guides that, since your brain is more likely to go straight to REM right after sleep onset in the last hours of sleep (which means you have to wake up, then go back to sleep), you're more likely to be able to induce an LD right at sleep onset. When you first go to sleep (at night), your brain generally goes through stages I-IV before getting to REM, and that whole cycle can take around 90 minutes, so WILDs would seem to be much harder when you first go to bed.

Ahahah np, I appreciate the discussion

Oh yeah, I guess you did start the thread.