Issues with HI

[KingRoyw]

I've been trying to WILD for a while now and can't seem to focus on HI. When I close my eyes, I see black with the dots and streaks of color, but not a lot. If I start to see something, my eyes always move to see it, which I know I shouldn't be doing because it disrupts any images. Also, most of the stuff I see are just like a neon blue in the shape of something, usually random. Yet I do not know why when I close my eyes, say in the middle of the day, pretty hard I get very bright blue and white images, tht take up about 2.3 of the viewing plane.But its only when the eyes are under pressure.. which I don't think I should be doing. I'm just not sure how to focus or look at objects when people say that you shouldn't move your eyes. Maybe I'm thinking too much during the attempts.

[Adrenaline Junkie]

Hey KingRoyw I just closed my eyes just then to see what you mean and i agree that it can be annoying, my eyes seemed to follow the appearing colours and shapes, not proper HI but if you close your eyes you do see faint colours and shapes. My advice to you is that when you close your eyes you release any tension on them and just focus on something else. If your constantly focused on your eyes it is more likely your eyes will move, just ignore them and focus on something else, relax them, it gets easier the longer you wait. Just keep in there and give it some practice, you will be able to achieve it though, i know you can! Please do ask if you have any questions.

[KingRoyw]

Thanks Seeker I'm going to continue my practice. What exactly should I be thining of or focusing on while waiting for HI to start? When I see something, should I think to myself that "hey, I see an elephant" or something, and recognize it? Usually, I do sometimes daydream while attempting this, not on purpose really ... its like I think I'm seeing something, like it above me, or I'm imaginiing it and wanting to see it... not an easy thing to explain. I know I should not be expecting to see a certain object, but if I see something remotly in the shape of something recognizable, I start to imagine seeing that certain thing.

[Adrenaline Junkie]

Hmmm, well i think the best thing to do before imagining something and waiting for it to appear and signal your lucid, you should work on getting into HI. Okay, instead of focsing on HI, just observe it, watch as the shapes and colours fly by, don't focus on it, just watch. Once you can train yourself to handle the moving eye problem i'm pretty sure you will get results. Just stay calm and don't panic at all, just know that you will become lucid if you just stay patient, don't focus on anything too hard though because it may cause you to come out of SP or HI. Just keep checking up on yourself, reminding yourself that you are asleep and close to a lucid dream, just let it happen, don't get excited and take it step by step. Give it a good try and you will have success.

[KingRoyw]

I'll just be happy with SP, I had it before for 2 minutes... but ever since its been hard for me to get anywhere near it. Once SP is out of the way, a LD won't be too much of an issue.

[Adrenaline Junkie]

Always strive for more my friend, i'm sure you can achieve HI, just take it slowly and focus on what you have got and not what you haven't got, if you lessen the pressure of getting to HI you will probably find that HI will come naturally and by surprise, just give it time and don't give up, you are capable!

[Redrivertears]

Hey there, Some good advice from Lucid Seeker already. I just wanted to add, from the first post I read, it seems to me like you're trying to see Hypnagogia with your eyes. That doesn't work. Try to see it with your mind instead. That sounds a bit surrealistic, I know, but it's much clearer with an example. Imagine the following scene. You're standing in the doorway of your house, looking at the street. You see a car drive by, its an old timer, it has an ocean blue color and there's four people inside. On the backseat there's a young girl. She waves at you as the car passes. Now as you were imagining this, you weren't actually "seeing it" with your eyes were you? Your eyes weren't emmiting impulses to your brain. The imagination happens on a different level. Its the same with hypnagogia (at least for me). Hypnagogia is a state of mind. Its not something your eyes physically see and then emit a series of stimuli to your brain which interprets this to give it form and shape. Your eyes don't enter into the equation, they are passively doing nothing. It all happens in your mind. Ideally, you want to 'forget' what your physically seeing, and withdraw your thoughts inwards. Personally I usually try to visualise and imagine dreamscenes to begin with. I'd visualise myself dreaming, and try to imagine every sense (sight, hearing, touch, scent, taste). As I pay more attention to this visualisation, and less to the actual waking world, hypnagogia will begin to appear, and I'd begin to see images and hear sounds which are at first fairly similar to my imagined ones, except I didn't chose to have them. They seem to come out of nowhere. As I begin paying them attention, they will gradually become more intense too. I'd begin to be able to hear actual conversations, see lots of detail on the images, see fluid motion and hear associated sounds. Anyways, lastly, remember that images are not the only hypnagogia. Personally I often 'hear' hypnagogia before I see them. I've even heard of people who would smell hypnagogia, or feel hypnagogia, before getting images. Hope that makes sense? -Redrivertears-

[KingRoyw]

That makes total sense Red I think I should start to imagine the dream scene first, I did that for my 1st SP, I just remember that now you mention that! Right as I was imagining that I saw some faces on my wall and I entered SP. Also, on another attempt, I started to hear a real low pitch deep hum for a few seconds until I got nervous and got myself up... there too I was imagining a scene. Yet for all other attempts, I just went strait to bed and waited for stuff to appear. Imagining the scenes before definatly takes your mind off your physical body, which I need. During my failed attempts, I was always like checking to see if I could feel my arms or legs, which isn't good! Also Seeker, I was focusing too much on what I wasn't seeing before. My confidence has gone way up thanks to you and red, I REALLY feel like I can do it now Thankyou both so much for your help and advice!!!

[KingRoyw]

Oh, and another thing.... If I feel an ich, should I scratch it? or should I jsut try to ignore it?

[Redrivertears]

I think this is very much a subjective thing: Its a basic question of: a) How easy you can ignore it versus b) How easy you can get back to the state where you were if you do scratch it. Personally, I scratch, most of the time. Unless the itch is really light. I find it very hard to ignore things like itches, being too warm, being too cold. My attention keeps being drawn back to them, and the last thing I want as my attention on my body. Additionally, I am someone who gets to sleep easily, so I find it very easy to get into a restful state where my mind can wander. Moving slightly to scratch an itch has very little effect on that. In less then a minute I'd be back to where i was (for instance seeing hypnagogia again, or feeling numb again, etc). If however you find that moving even slightly completely ruins it for you, and you need to spend half an hour to get back to where you were, it might be easier to ignore the itch. It all just depends on you. Experiment with it a bit, and find the balance, would be my overall suggestion. Hope that helps, -Redrivertears-

[dreamscaper22]

i agree...the problem i have most is keeping my eyes still...alll i have to do is not focus on it and its not a problem anymore

[mylucidworld]

I've been trying to WILD for a while now and can't seem to focus on HI. When I close my eyes, I see black with the dots and streaks of color, but not a lot. If I start to see something, my eyes always move to see it, which I know I shouldn't be doing because it disrupts any images. Also, most of the stuff I see are just like a neon blue in the shape of something, usually random. Yet I do not know why when I close my eyes, say in the middle of the day, pretty hard I get very bright blue and white images, tht take up about 2.3 of the viewing plane.But its only when the eyes are under pressure.. which I don't think I should be doing. I'm just not sure how to focus or look at objects when people say that you shouldn't move your eyes. Maybe I'm thinking too much during the attempts. I get hypnagogic Imagery every night unintentionally. i just let my mind wander and i achieve it.

[KingRoyw]

Ok, well I'm still having a bit of an issue with the eyes moving... but there's another problem, that I think is the main thing holding me back. Should I act/try to feel tired or awake when trying to relax? I know its a weird question... but should I like try to be consiuously tired... as in going to be tired... or should I be like wide awake consious? Its hard to explain. I know I should be relaxed, but I think I am maybe too relaxed and not paying enough attention.

[Redrivertears]

Hey there, Neither. "Feeling tired" or "feeling awake" are feelings of your waking enviroment, exactly the sort of things you should try not to focus on Don't "try to feel" anything. Try to withdraw your attention from your body, until it no longer matters what you feel. In short, don't worry about it, it doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is not focussing on it. Anyways, that's my opinion on the matter, -Redrivertears-

[KingRoyw]

Ok, I knew I was thinking too much XD. Its not exactly easy for me to clear my mind of the outside.. but I'll try couting backwards or something like that to help me.