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Well i told my mom that i tried to make my body fall asleep and that it felt like i was out of my body. She told me not to mess around with out of body experiences because it could cause things. I told her it was just my body falling asleep. Anybody else have Christian parents who are skeptic about this?
If she gives you grief you could tell her the first written account of a lucid dream came from St. Augustine of Hippo. He said nothing against them, but merely recounted the experience. St. Thomas Aquinas also mentioned them in passing with no condemnation. But be understanding of her - being a Catholic myself, it took me a while to become convinced that they were safe, too. :)
As a Christian, I understand the arguments against attempting lucidity and other dream-related activities. Regardless what anyone might think, dreams are a gift from God and we can appreciate them for what they are and learn from them, or we can listen to those who believe demons can influence us when we sleep. During non-lucid dreams, we are not in control over what takes place, but by what takes place, we can learn more about ourselves and get a different perspective on what's going on in our lives that we might otherwise not be aware of.
During lucid dreams, we have choices to make. We can choose to make decisions that honor God and follow His direction, or we can take the stance that since no one is watching we can do what we want. Personally, I'm for the former. :)
As far as OBEs, I don't know where I stand on that. When you start to get into more of the theoretical or philosophical aspects of dreaming, just tread carefully. I believe that we can still be influenced for better or for worse through our dreams and we have to make sure that we are not inviting something into our lives which could potentially harm us.
*goes back and reads again* Oh. If you're trying to WILD and are practicing falling asleep while maintaining aware, that's just another part of lucid dreaming. You're not doing anything satanic or hypocritical. You're just going through a natural body process, only this time you're still awake while it happens. I had a dream once where at one point it felt like my soul was starting to leave my body. It was quite a unique experience!
If your mom has any doubts about lucid dreaming, I would be happy to answer questions from my experience. :) Feel free to PM me if you feel the need. As long as she trusts you to make good decisions, there shouldn't be a problem.
Yeah, I still wonder about oobies too - but since there's no verifiable evidence that they're anything other than a different form of LD, I'm not really bothered about them anymore. When I thought they were real they freaked the heck out of me.
I like knowing that it's possible to be Christian, or religious in any sort of way, and lucid dream. I feared it was sacreligous (sp?) or something.
I devote my time to my faith and I find nothing wrong with it as long as I don't break my morals such as what I follow in every day life... such as murder or rape.
OBE's on the other hand... If they are real I wouldn't do them because it is "mystic". You can choose what to believe on that.
"God gives some dreams meaning if you are lucid you will miss them" Do you not think God, the all powerful cannot change our lucid dream or make us lose lucidity?
As Ame said, Sleep paralysis is perfectly natural and happens every night so we don't act out our dreams. But when you wild you can observe it happening. Note: You can WILD without it. You just will experience it sometimes
Whats and OBE?
Out of body experience
:)
So is making your body fall asleep but staying concious considered a OBE?
If she seems genuinely interested in what you're doing, explain that what you're doing is different the OBE's. You're not trying to leave your body nor welcoming any sort of spiritual being- you're merely trying to trigger a certain stage of sleep.
A lot of people- Christians especially, are scared of Sleep Paralysis because so many people experience demonic type hallucinations. Try explaining to her what the true mechanics are but don't dismiss her concerns because sometimes (in my opinion) demonic entities ARE involved, but rarely.
But if she's really not interested or it makes her too uncomfortable, try holding your tongue about such subjects.
My kids, for example, are extremely interested in witchcraft, alchemy (the sort depicted in cartoons lol) and the likes. Even though I used to be a solitary practicioner of Wicca, I'm now a devout Christian and they've come to realize that talking about certain things will get them nowhere and we'll only butt heads on certain subjects. They now only mention their spiritual interests if they truly want my opinion and education (which involves spiritual subjects that keep me talking for hours lol).
**Edit**
No- Sleep Paralysis is not the same as on OBE. An OBE is where you try to have either your spirit or your consciousness leave your body to experience certain things. Think of near death experiences where people believe they leave their body and are aware of things that are going on even though they're unconscious.
It can be. Basically, it's the opposite of a lucid dream in the sense that the dreamer knows a dream isn't real, whilst a person experiencing an oobie will be convinced that they have actually left their body and can travel in physical space. As yet, there's no verifiable evidence that they actually do that, so it seems to just be an illusion similar to an LD.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sorox
Hmm...
I don't believe religion has anything to do with OBE's or lucid dreaming. I have astral projected many times before I started getting into ld's and It never messed me up...just gave me wonderful experiences and feelings :)
I'm a Hindu but I don't let that play a role in this part of my spiritual life.
Lucid dreamers can actually be quite skeptical. Many beleive that so called OBE's/Astral Travelling are no more than a variation of lucid dreaming.
Interestingly enough, many of the arguments used by Astral Travellers on Lucid Dreamers to "prove" their assertions are very similar to those that the religious use on athiests.
Make of that what you will.
Unfortunately every so often you'll find a member or two who is sneaking onto their computer, hiding a dream journal under the mattress or behind the refrigerator, simply because they have family who are so close-minded that lucid dreaming and even dream journaling are absolutely not tolerated. :(
An OBE is just any time you perceive that your consciousness is existing outside of your body. It happens in hospitals and accidents quite frequently. It happens sometimes when you WILD and float out of your dream body into your dream bedroom. It also is claimed to actually happen (like, people believe that they literally float out of their bodies) when people lay down in bed, go through SP, and then float out of their body.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sorox
In my opinion those cookbook-Oobes achieved the same way that you WILD are all just a dream. Not a lucid dream, because then they'd realize they were merely dreaming.
If such a thing were so easy to do, there would be a TON of evidence and research on it. Imagine what the world would be like if we could all lay down, then float out of our bodies and through walls to spy on people or visit others. As soon as evidence like that starts coming out, I'll buy into it. But as is I don't think the average person is that capable of tricking their perception just by laying in a bed, unless it is a dream perception.
BUT, if you go into Beyond Dreaming you'll find tons of people who think it's legit. I think it's just a matter of perception.
I doubt it. Scientists are the most skeptical people on Earth. It's only ever been a tiny number of mavericks who have dared to believe what others consider impossible, who have made progress and slowly shifted the opinions of mainstream science. Most scientists, unfortunately, say "that cannot be so; it is impossible". The true pioneering scientists say "Why is that so when it seems impossible?"Quote:
Originally Posted by Shift
I disagree.
Then you are wrong. :D
An excellent argument :bravo:
Out of Body experiences aren't out of body in the literal sense, I mean, where would you be recieving nervous input from if not your body via your nervous system? :?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sorox
I know the feeling, though, when you relax, you can trick yourself into feeling something you aren't actually experiencing, i.e. falling backwards while you're laying flat. It's nothing to be worried about-- That's just why they call it "falling" asleep.
Anyway, you're mother's just being pedantic.
Oh yeah, your disagreement was elucidated* in so much more detail. :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Shift
*Excuse pun
Your description does not hold true for any of the 40+ scientists/researchers that I know. So, I disagree. It's a bad generalization.
Personally, I can't prove that OBE's do exist or that they do not exist. I'd think that if they did exist, somebody after all these centuries could once and for all conclusively prove that in a lab. Leave your body, read some text in the next room, tell the lab folks what you read when you're awake and BINGO, you've just won one million dollars from that prize they're still offering for proof of any paranormal ability. But then again, our government DID setup an agency to investigate remote viewing (even though it died) so who knows.
We do know for a fact that lucid dreams exist. I don't see how any religion could condemn them. Everybody dreams, only, lucid dreamers dream at a higher level.
Some people say OBE's exist, some don't. I personally don't think they do, and if they do exist, they are different than Lucid Dreams and I am prety sure don't usually happen by accadent. Explain to your mom that a Lucid Dream is no different than a regular dream, except that you know you are dreaming at the time of the dream. When going to bed keeping your mind awake, you are simply going into a dream while knowing what you are doing instead of having the short "black out" that occurs in between, you are by no means leaving your body.
If you can't convince your mother that they are harmless, I would respect her opinion and quit if she asks you too. If it doesn't bother her, than woot for you! :D :P
Oh yes I forgot to add. Almost everyone has had a lucid dream, they probably woke up afterwords but they knew they were dreaming. I myself have been doing this all my life.
My dad is also a natural lucid dreamer. I know God wouldn't give me the ability to control my dreams if it is satanic/evil.
Excuse me, are you f***ing kidding me? You're telling him that if he can't explain LDing to his close-minded superstitious misled mother, he should give up something that can give him once-in-a-lifetime experiences ON COMMAND? There is such a thing as a wrong opinion. If for some reason you don't get that, how about the way people in South USA used to feel about slavery? How can someone's opinion stop you from recognizing dreams? Seriously. It shouldn't be a lucky thing that his mother doesn't mind LD.Quote:
If you can't convince your mother that they are harmless, I would respect her opinion and quit if she asks you too. If it doesn't bother her, than woot for you! :D :P
There are a few christians here and a few people with christian parents. Christians tend to consider anything that they don't understand the work of evil, so just keep it quiet. There's nothing wrong with it and you won't be able to convince skeptics unless they have one themselves.
Why do you need to convince them anyway. Just do it quietly. If you set an alarm put it on vibrate, if she can hear it on your nightstand put it in your pillow case. It's quite loud for you since your head is on the pillow but not for others.
Whilst Lucid dreams aren't supernatural,
but you probably don't want to tell them what you get up to "in country" so to speak.
I'm with -InsaneKid- on the point that someone, especially while living under their parent's roof, should honor their parents. That includes following their direction. However, in the case where you're dealing with the topic of dreams in general, there's not a whole lot one can do aside from ignoring the dreams. If someone is faced with a parent who believes that lucid dreaming is bad, it is a matter of explaining what it is in a rational and logical way.Quote:
Originally Posted by pojmaster17q
Personally, I think that it's often a trust issue between the parent and child. If the parent trusts their kid to make good decisions, then they shouldn't have a problem with the idea of being consciously aware and making decisions in dreams. If the parent doesn't trust their kid, it makes sense that they would fear that the young man/lady would do something "wrong" while lucid. There are those who just feel that dreaming is evil in general, and with them, all you can do is tell them that it's not and hope for the best.
I don't like the idea of going behind the parent's back and blatantly disrespecting them, but to be completely honest, there's not a whole lot that can be done if a parent doesn't want their child to dream any more.
Great points Amethyst Star. :)
@pojmaster17q, what I am saying (much like Amethyst Star stated) is that so long as you are living in your parent's house then you should respect their opinions and abide by their rules. Once you move out, you are on your own to make the descisions you think best, even if they are bad ones.
@ninja9578, please don't classify "Christians" in this catigory simply because you have met a few that have wierd and/or twisted views. In the church I go to I have yet to find a Christian with that outlook. There are some superstitious Christians though, but that doesn't mean that all Christians are like that. There are superstitious non-Christians also, does that mean every person that doesn't believe in Christ is superstitious? No.
Dude... it's knowing you're dreaming. Why ask them in the first place? I don't get why people are so attached to honoring the opinions of their parents that they can't make exceptions for such things. Just because you live in their house they can't control what you remember (that you're dreaming.) What if you're a natural lucid dreamer and your parents don't approve? Are you supposed to take some pills to suppress dreams?
There's not much one can do about dreaming, so at the least don't rub your parents nose in the fact that you're still trying to become lucid or have out of body experiences or whatnot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Amethyst Star
My Grandmother is a Christian, and is very passionate towards her religion. I told her about lucid dreaming and she didn't have a big problem with it. I don't see why your mom is so worried about it. Well, I need to know how worried your mother is. On a scale of 1/10, how worried is your Mom?
Lets not forget that some christians think Harry Potter Novels are the devils work.:eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by Resus4ur
Oh, and that the Earth is literally 6000 years old. :shock:
Poor Harry.Quote:
Originally Posted by moonshine
Concerning the Earth, I once wrote a satire article which asked the question ..
"What if the universe came into existence 4 seconds ago?"
How would any of us know that IF ..
1) Everything -- galaxies, quasars, fossils, etc were PRE-aged
2) All humans were implanted with years and years of memory even though their real age was .. 4 seconds
Meaning, I could look at the red-shifted light from a galaxy and computations would tell me that it's 12 billion light years away (which it is). Yet in reality, in the satire, it's only .. 4 seconds old.
I think that folks who say that the earth is 6000 years old base that on the detailed geneology beginning with the bible's "Adam" to the bible's "Jesus" (which covers about 4000 years). I'm sure that everybody knows, however, that today's science virtually proves that billions of years have passed since SOMETHING went bang.
Hence the 6000 year'ers are forced to choose between believing that OR attempting to explain the discrepency by saying that everything was created with "the appearance of age" .. 6000 years ago. There are, however, some who understand that biblical geneology, but also find ways to reconcile that geneology with what science and their own eyes tell them -- that being, the earth is ancient, ie billions with a "B".
Congratulations. If you've finished this post you are now THIRTY seconds old. Happy birthday.