Does being lucid stop you from resting.

For Vividly: I think there are biological (and associated psycological) problems with having excessive REM... which some people have.... which your teacher may be confusing with lucid dreaming.

For Dannon Oneironaut: You said, When a lucid dream ends, stay lucid, without waking up. Before a lucid dream begins, stay lucid. When you awake in the morning, stay lucid. During the day, stay lucid. Before you go to bed, stay lucid.

Could you elaborate on this, please? I think i may have done this after my WILD this morning. I woke up but was able to access the creativity of the dreamstate but was not getting visuals. At some point, however, i transitioned into "i think i'll wake up now".

So what does it mean to "live lucid"? It is a phased thing ie depending on whether you just came out of a lucid dream ... or is being lucid a constant state of awareness? if so what is it like?

Also, do you think periodically using sound to bring on certain brainwaves like theta and delta (or possibly even gamma) will help? i guess this is an alternative to meditating.

many thanks,
beachgirl

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Originally Posted by SleepyCookieDough

Imagine, someone became so good at lucid dreaming that he/she would be lucid through his/her entire sleep, would it be harmful to the reason that each day we sleep: Resting/ recovering/ Reload our energy... ?

It's not that I'm worried that it might but whenever I tell someone they tell me that anybody that lucid dreams is gonna go pshyco after a while because if they're conscious during their sleep, they are not resting, therefore they will be tired at all time, go crazy or all the rest that happens to people who do not sleep. When they tell me that, I don't know what to say to prove that its not true. The only thing I find to say is:

You're body is what needs to rest and even if your lucid, its still resting so it doesn't matter.

And then they say: "Your mind has to rest too"

And my answer is: "The way your mind rests is by dreaming. When your lucid, you're still dreaming, so your mind is still resting."

I actually just guessed that. It was the most logical answer that came to my mind (no pun intented). I wanted to know if there's a more "scientifical" explanation to this. (Or if, it actually stops you from resting)

Thanks :)

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Heres an intersting bit of info regarding the mind an dreams;
Neurology of sleep and dreams

Accumulated observation shows that dreams are strongly associated with rapid eye movement (REM) sleep, during which an electroencephalogram shows brain activity to be most like wakefulness so when your dreaming your brains going for it!!

Your mind and body both get some rest during non-REM sleep, although even in non-REM sleep you can have simple dreams, or, in rare cases, sleepwalking and night terrors, indicating some sort of mind activity. During REM sleep, your mind is about as active as it is while awake, so whether you're lucid or not doesn't matter much - your mind isn't resting when you're dreaming, regardless. Although, it may be consolidating short-term memories into long-term via the dream imagery...they say getting more REM while learning something helps you learn it better.

However, self-awareness and willpower can wax and wane naturally whether you're lucid-dreaming or awake...chances are you will not be in a relatively heightened state of self-awareness all the time, unless you're one of those natural lucid dreamers who maintained the ability since childhood, and even then, that's only heightened awareness while you sleep.

So, no, lucid dreaming in itself probably does not deprive you of physical or mental rest. However, a "wake back to bed" induction attempt just might deprive you of some rest (mostly by depriving you of non-REM sleep you'd be getting while you're awake and thinking of lucid dreaming), which is why those of us who are not natural LDers tend not to LD every night.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by beachgirl

For Dannon Oneironaut: You said, When a lucid dream ends, stay lucid, without waking up. Before a lucid dream begins, stay lucid. When you awake in the morning, stay lucid. During the day, stay lucid. Before you go to bed, stay lucid.

Could you elaborate on this, please? I think i may have done this after my WILD this morning. I woke up but was able to access the creativity of the dreamstate but was not getting visuals. At some point, however, i transitioned into "i think i'll wake up now".

So what does it mean to "live lucid"? It is a phased thing ie depending on whether you just came out of a lucid dream ... or is being lucid a constant state of awareness? if so what is it like?

Also, do you think periodically using sound to bring on certain brainwaves like theta and delta (or possibly even gamma) will help? i guess this is an alternative to meditating.

many thanks,
beachgirl

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To live lucid means to have that same relaxed self awareness that you have during a lucid dream during the day as well. To be able to pay attention to details around you at the same time as the whole environment as one unity and at the same time your own consciousness and to realize that the only way that you are able to perceive your environment is because of your own awareness. I get into this state by pretending that I am in a lucid dream during the day and I look at how effortlessly my mind creates the environment is such lucid detail. Of course I am awake and the question of whether or not it is a projection of my mind or not is purely philosophical, but I don't worry about the philosophy of it but I use it as a technique. Of course, having regular lucid dreams helps. During sleep one can remain lucid for the duration of the dream and even when the dream is over in which case if one doesn't wake up one will experience pure consciousness without form, it is very blissful. It is not an alternative to meditation... it IS meditation, or SAMADHI. I don't know about gamma waves, I'll have to research those. I use sound the sound technique I talked about above to prepare for WILDing. But I do the AH OM HUM RAM (rum) DZA mantra. I first do AH a number of times to vibrate the third eye until I am visualizing a strong white color and my head feels spacious, and I then move on to red OM in throat chakra and do likewise. Then blue HUM at heart likewise, Red RAM in belly likewise, and then green DZA in the root chakra. I take time with each syllable before moving on to the next. This has the effect of opening and purifying and energizing the channels and getting a good relaxed flow through body and mind which facillitates lucidity.

The other night I remained lucid the whole night and felt completely rested in the morning 8 hours later. I could tell that I was in DELTA when I wasn't dreaming but I felt like my head was in a bright light and I felt bodyless.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by oniman7

Also, nice to have you back Sleepy. Hope you stay for a while.

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I hope I will too. I sort of stopped keeping a dream journal and having LDs during the summer 'cause I had a job which took more of my time than school and I didn't have any time to remember my dreams in the morning but exactly a month and a week ago I got mad at myself for stopping and I restarted. I then also got the need to come back... lol!

Thanks for your answer too! :P

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dannon Oneironaut

We are a unique tribe of people, SleepyCookieDough. Get used to it. It is kind of lonely out here on the fringe.

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yeah, I know... I like it that we are unique actually. The thing is that I wish I knew only one more person. I don't need more than one person. 'cause I like the unique thing with lucid dreams. I like that they are considered weird by most people. It makes me feel special. lol! When I found lucid dreams it was like the best thing in the world. It's as if I'm entering that other world that no one has access too. It's as if us, lucid dreamer, have a key to a special land way better than Earth and no one knows about it or wants to know about it because they are too bizarre...
That reminds me how when i do an RC, someone that knows I do LDs will be like "what are you doing?" and I'll say "checking if I'm dreaming or not" and they they'll reply "You don't know if your dreaming or not? Wo, you're lost!"... I find it so ironic because they don't know if their dreaming or not either. Everyone just 'assumes' there not dreaming, they don't 'know'. And then when we're dreaming, we, lucid dreamers, (sometimes or most of the time) know that we are doing while these people who think we're lost think they know they are still not dreaming... It be funny if they had a dream in which they saw someone doing a RC and they would have the dialogue I just wrote. That be an epic fail... "You don't know if you're dreaming or not? Wo, you're lost, man! We're obviously not dreaming!" (within a dream)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by beachgirl

For Dannon Oneironaut: You said, When a lucid dream ends, stay lucid, without waking up. Before a lucid dream begins, stay lucid. When you awake in the morning, stay lucid. During the day, stay lucid. Before you go to bed, stay lucid.

Could you elaborate on this, please? I think i may have done this after my WILD this morning. I woke up but was able to access the creativity of the dreamstate but was not getting visuals. At some point, however, i transitioned into "i think i'll wake up now".

So what does it mean to "live lucid"? It is a phased thing ie depending on whether you just came out of a lucid dream ... or is being lucid a constant state of awareness? if so what is it like?

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It is a state of awareness and it feels a bit like a lucid dream. Well, the best way is to tell yourself you're in one and that's probably why you can only be lucid when awake if you had lucid dreams before because then you know how to feel. It's actually very nice to be lucid while aware. I feel very happy when i am. It's also easier to think to do a RC when you are.

Well, this is my opinion, I don't know if it is exactly what Danon_Oineraut meant.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by big dreams

Heres an intersting bit of info regarding the mind an dreams;
Neurology of sleep and dreams

Accumulated observation shows that dreams are strongly associated with rapid eye movement (REM) sleep, during which an electroencephalogram shows brain activity to be most like wakefulness so when your dreaming your brains going for it!!

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That proves it well. Well, I told my mom these things so now she changed arguments. She doesn't tell me "you're not getting any rest" but whenever I forget something (I use to forget things so much before I started lucid dreaming) but now, I only do it very few times, well she tells me it is because of my lucid dreams which are making me unaware and are keeping me in my bubble and I found that very stupid because lucid dream is about being aware. I also feel one with the world when I'm lucid, well not litteraly, but I sort a feel like that so I'm definitly not in my own bubble.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by innerspacecadet

So, no, lucid dreaming in itself probably does not deprive you of physical or mental rest. However, a "wake back to bed" induction attempt just might deprive you of some rest (mostly by depriving you of non-REM sleep you'd be getting while you're awake and thinking of lucid dreaming), which is why those of us who are not natural LDers tend not to LD every night.

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Well, buddhits don't lucid dream but they lucid sleep, like during non-REM and also during REM sleep they will just stay in the darkness and meditate. WHat would that do?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dannon Oneironaut

To live lucid means to have that same relaxed self awareness that you have during a lucid dream during the day as well. To be able to pay attention to details around you at the same time as the whole environment as one unity and at the same time your own consciousness and to realize that the only way that you are able to perceive your environment is because of your own awareness. I get into this state by pretending that I am in a lucid dream during the day and I look at how effortlessly my mind creates the environment is such lucid detail. Of course I am awake and the question of whether or not it is a projection of my mind or not is purely philosophical, but I don't worry about the philosophy of it but I use it as a technique. Of course, having regular lucid dreams helps. During sleep one can remain lucid for the duration of the dream and even when the dream is over in which case if one doesn't wake up one will experience pure consciousness without form, it is very blissful. It is not an alternative to meditation... it IS meditation, or SAMADHI. I don't know about gamma waves, I'll have to research those. I use sound the sound technique I talked about above to prepare for WILDing. But I do the AH OM HUM RAM (rum) DZA mantra. I first do AH a number of times to vibrate the third eye until I am visualizing a strong white color and my head feels spacious, and I then move on to red OM in throat chakra and do likewise. Then blue HUM at heart likewise, Red RAM in belly likewise, and then green DZA in the root chakra. I take time with each syllable before moving on to the next. This has the effect of opening and purifying and energizing the channels and getting a good relaxed flow through body and mind which facillitates lucidity.

The other night I remained lucid the whole night and felt completely rested in the morning 8 hours later. I could tell that I was in DELTA when I wasn't dreaming but I felt like my head was in a bright light and I felt bodyless.

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Oh, you posted just before I did so that's why I said "I don't know what he means exactly" but I guess we meant the same thing. How do you stay awake the whole night? Using the AH OM HUM RAM (rum) DZA mantra? You start at night when you go to bed? Do you just lie in the same position and just don't move and wait for 8 hours? That's cool. I'll try.
(I knew about AH but not about the other ones.)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SleepyCookieDough

Oh, you poster just before I did so that's why I said "I don't know what he means exactly" but I guess we meant the same thing. How do you stay awake the whole night? Using the AH OM HUM RAM (rum) DZA mantra? You start at night when you go to bed? Do you just lie in the same position and just don't move and wait for 8 hours? That's cool. I'll try.
(I knew about AH but not about the other ones.)

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I do the mantra out loud in the beginning, then I just progressively relax and sometimes I slow my breathing down and make it so shallow that I'm barely breathing at all. I see how close i can get to not breathing. It is something to focus on and it REALLY relaxes the body and separates the mind from the body. As far as I know I'm the only person who does this. But I only do that until I am utterly relaxed, then I start breathing normally as if I were asleep. I then can feel energy pretty strongly so I move it around doing the 61 point relaxation technique.http://www.mind-energy.net/archives/...technique.html

Then I will just relax and let my body sleep and let my mind relax yet focus out all thoughts except one of observing my true self (which cannot be observed!). It is like trying to look at a star with binoculars: it is hard to hold it steady and it wiggles all over depending on how many thoughts are passing in front of it. But when I get it steady and I sink into it I am bodiless and in Delta. After a period of lucid dreams I will move my arms and legs and arch my back and then go back in, or I will get up and drink a glass of apple juice and go pee and then back to yoga nidra! (Yogic sleep)

how long did you have to practice in order to be able to acheive yogic sleep like this? it sounds great! all night.
do you access the dreams of Non-rem as well?

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Originally Posted by beachgirl

how long did you have to practice in order to be able to acheive yogic sleep like this? it sounds great! all night.
do you access the dreams of Non-rem as well?

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I didn't need too much practice, I guess I'm a natural because I remember as a kid I used to pretend I was dead and I would have crazy experiences so maybe I've been practicin since then but not so much in my later teen age years and early 20s. It really is easy (for me) the hardest part is to not get bored and decide to pass out. Also, you need to stop or transcend the monkey mind. That is why I do that very slow shallow breathing which is almost just taking a little little sip of air and immediately letting it flow back out and increasing the time between sips and making the sips smaller. And even when you feel it is time for a sip of air waiting for a few more seconds and you feel some kind of transcendental energy flowing liquid that carries you deeper. But this was the first time that I did it ALL night. I am kind of proud. These conversations have inspired me. Oh! The feeling of being immersed in light!!! Like soaking in a magick pool of water blessed by a unicorn!!!

I'm surprised I haven't exactly seen this come up but the only reason I see that you could lose sleep is if you try too hard to WILD since you have to be awake for it or if you mess up while taking lucid aids that causes you to stay up.

Other than that, I find no reason how it can negatively affect you. If anything it's positive and healthy for the mind like as mentioned about Tibetan Dream Yoga. Awareness.

According to power-napping, you only need REM in order to get the "recharged" feeling upon awakening. Power nappers spend only about 5-10mins in non-REM, then about 30mins of REM, then that's all and you can function normally if not, better. You'd have to becareful though to not to get a bonus nap or else you'd hit rebound for non-REM.

From what I understand, the only difference between normal dreams and lucid dreams is that you activate the Dorsolateral section of the Prefrontal Cortex during a lucid dream. DLPFC is basically responsible for self-awareness and rational thinking. I know the mind is already very active during REM sleep, but you just add the DLPFC activity.

I know there's more to it, but that's from what I understand. I could be wrong though.

I Love reading this thread!

My contributions:
Sleeping is especially for resting the mind. The body could do with just physical rest (not sleep). But for the well-being of the mind it's a great neccesity. And (lucid)dreaming is part of the REM-sleep, which isn't the part of the sleep where the mind really rests, so as long as your not extending your REM sleep (is that even possible?) I don't think it can harm you to LD.

Also I saw Tobi Uchiha mentioning 5-MeO-DMT, but after that the discussion went on, but with DMT, but there is an important difference between the two. 5-MeO-DMT is much stronger and has a bit different effect, but now to think of it Tobi Uchiha was wrong since the substance isn't made in the human body.
But the expression of DMT in the body is at such low dosises that it can't really be compared with the drug use of the substance. And soon I will be speaking from experience because I can get some from a friend:)

Deciding not to let your own interests be dependent on those of the people close to you makes you a bit lonely. But life is to important to let it be lead by others. But luckily my father has a bit of a spiritual mindset, so I like talking to him about it. Ans some of my friends like the idea, but aren't there yet, where they really want to bring it to practice.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SleepyCookieDough

That reminds me how when i do an RC, someone that knows I do LDs will be like "what are you doing?" and I'll say "checking if I'm dreaming or not" and they they'll reply "You don't know if your dreaming or not? Wo, you're lost!"... I find it so ironic because they don't know if their dreaming or not either. Everyone just 'assumes' there not dreaming, they don't 'know'. And then when we're dreaming, we, lucid dreamers, (sometimes or most of the time) know that we are doing while these people who think we're lost think they know they are still not dreaming... It be funny if they had a dream in which they saw someone doing a RC and they would have the dialogue I just wrote. That be an epic fail... "You don't know if you're dreaming or not? Wo, you're lost, man! We're obviously not dreaming!" (within a dream)

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I love this way of thinking

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dannon Oneironaut

Deciding not to let your own interests be dependent on those of the people close to you makes you a bit lonely. But life is to important to let it be lead by others. But luckily my father has a bit of a spiritual mindset, so I like talking to him about it. Ans some of my friends like the idea, but aren't there yet, where they really want to bring it to practice.

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yeah, we can't let other people lead our lives which I would definitly not do. My mom keeps asking me to stop LDing and when I think about it I figure out I can't. It's part of me now and it be just as if I stopped eating (well, it wouldn't kill me)
I guess, its like that for every LDers... :)

:thanks: Also, thank you for everyone who answered! :D

Originally Posted by Dannon Oneironaut?

Didn't realise he said the exact thing, weird;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SleepyCookieDough

yeah, we can't let other people lead our lives which I would definitly not do.

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It's not always a choice to influence people, but it is their choice to which extent they let your presence influence them.
Like deciding were you go to study? A lot of people let it be influenced by the people around them, but it is way to important to go/stay at the same place as your friends, while the right study for you may be at a different place.

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Originally Posted by Wikihan

Originally Posted by Dannon Oneironaut?

Didn't realise he said the exact thing, weird;)


It's not always a choice to influence people, but it is their choice to which extent they let your presence influence them.
Like deciding were you go to study? A lot of people let it be influenced by the people around them, but it is way to important to go/stay at the same place as your friends, while the right study for you may be at a different place.

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That's weird, I quoted you... :uhm:

That was a good exemple too.

No worries, I won't sue you;)

I thought of it this summer when I switched universities. Now it's like one of my main philosophies when I have decide about something.

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Originally Posted by Wikihan

No worries, I won't sue you;)

I thought of it this summer when I switched universities. Now it's like one of my main philosophies when I have decide about something.

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that's nice.
Me, its that since I LD and I felt so different and alone and stuff, I completly stopped worrying about other people's opinion. I decided I was me and that I was unique and I started liking it when people said I was weird and different because it meant I wasn't stuck in this world when you worry about what other people say. So i do my own things now. But I love being around people and that's the thing. When we talk, it always makes me think of something dream related and I want to talk about it but I can't. Anything else, i can say. Dreams are much more of a taboo than things that I use to think were when I was a kid such as sex, drugs/alcohol, etc... I never thought when I was a kid that sex would be something you hear about every day but that no one would allow you to talk about dreams. Well people do allow me to talk about dreams under one condition: that I talk about it like a normal person: "I had a weird dream last night ( not a lucid dream, a dream, not an SP, a dream, not a false awakening, a dream, not a obe, a dream, just a dream)" and then you say it and then you change subject.... :P

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Originally Posted by SleepyCookieDough

that's nice.
Me, its that since I LD and I felt so different and alone and stuff, I completly stopped worrying about other people's opinion. I decided I was me and that I was unique and I started liking it when people said I was weird and different because it meant I wasn't stuck in this world when you worry about what other people say. So i do my own things now. But I love being around people and that's the thing. When we talk, it always makes me think of something dream related and I want to talk about it but I can't. Anything else, i can say.

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That is why we have to keep quiet and not "cast pearls before swine" as the bible says. We need to learn to jabber like monkeys about meaningless things like the weather without talking about anything deep like lucid dreaming except with like minded people or people who are close to us and care what and who we are. But for the masses we say things like "I am tired today, I didn't get enough sleep." Or: "I slept well last night." Or: "It sure has been cold. Do you think we will have a cold winter?"

Dannon, that is an absolutely amazing quote. I think that's going in my signature.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dannon Oneironaut

That is why we have to keep quiet and not "cast pearls before swine" as the bible says. We need to learn to jabber like monkeys about meaningless things like the weather without talking about anything deep like lucid dreaming except with like minded people or people who are close to us and care what and who we are. But for the masses we say things like "I am tired today, I didn't get enough sleep." Or: "I slept well last night." Or: "It sure has been cold. Do you think we will have a cold winter?"

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yeah, I know. It's what I try to do but when i think about it, most of us, lucid dreamers, don't talk about it to other people and if we don't, how can we find each other in real life, not just on a forum? yes, i try only talking about it to people that care for me but still those people don't think lucid dreams can exist or that its just a waste or time or whatever.

I did like your post a lot 'cause its so true. I hear things like "I am tired today, I didn't get enough sleep" and then I think about how I woke up in sleep paralisis and I want to say that but people are gonna say "Oh, you were just dreaming, you were not actually paralized, don't be silly!" so i stay quiet and say "Oh yeah, didn't sleep much either, it was sorta cold..." But its a lie 'cause I always sleep well and when i don't, i don't remember my dreams so my only concern is that I didn't remember my dreams but its not like I can go and say that to everyone "I had a bad night last night, I didn't remember any of my dreams!" Someone also said something about keeping a journal and some people laughed. I wanted to say "Hey, I've got one too! But I put dreams in it, not stuff that happens through the day." but I just said that it was cool that he had kept a journal. I feel like I need to lie all the time and pretend I feel certain ways when i actually feel another way. I'm okay with it but I like expressing all of it on this forum since I can't go to anybody and talk about it.

Well, you can just be yourself and to hell with the people who think you're wierd! Someone will be bound to be interested sooner or later. Maybe someone will start keeping a dream journal! Other people will just think that you are a little odd, but at least you can be lovably odd. Put up flyers for a dream group! I joined a dream group once and met some cute girls who like to dream!

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Originally Posted by Dannon Oneironaut

Well, you can just be yourself and to hell with the people who think you're wierd! Someone will be bound to be interested sooner or later. Maybe someone will start keeping a dream journal! Other people will just think that you are a little odd, but at least you can be lovably odd. Put up flyers for a dream group! I joined a dream group once and met some cute girls who like to dream!

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I don't mind being weird, I just end up talking to myself when i talk about lucid dream so I don't see why I would. I know I made it sound like it was a big issue in my life but it isn't. It does bother me but not for real... I get myself. I'm fine with it, I just like talking about it. :)