Does being lucid stop you from resting.

Imagine, someone became so good at lucid dreaming that he/she would be lucid through his/her entire sleep, would it be harmful to the reason that each day we sleep: Resting/ recovering/ Reload our energy... ?

It's not that I'm worried that it might but whenever I tell someone they tell me that anybody that lucid dreams is gonna go pshyco after a while because if they're conscious during their sleep, they are not resting, therefore they will be tired at all time, go crazy or all the rest that happens to people who do not sleep. When they tell me that, I don't know what to say to prove that its not true. The only thing I find to say is:

You're body is what needs to rest and even if your lucid, its still resting so it doesn't matter.

And then they say: "Your mind has to rest too"

And my answer is: "The way your mind rests is by dreaming. When your lucid, you're still dreaming, so your mind is still resting."

I actually just guessed that. It was the most logical answer that came to my mind (no pun intented). I wanted to know if there's a more "scientifical" explanation to this. (Or if, it actually stops you from resting)

Thanks :)

Well, from what I know, the mind doesn't need rest. Although, of course, if you decide to live out a second life, THEN you might go insane.

But my answer is: That's why we don't have lucids every night.

EDIT: Just read the FULL post :P

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Imagine, someone became so good at lucid dreaming that he/she would be lucid through his/her entire sleep, would it be harmful to the reason that each day we sleep: Resting/ recovering/ Reload our energy... ?

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Well, while you're dreaming, you're using your SUBconscious, and the regular conscious is resting. You use your regular conscious throughout the day. It's like running on two different gas tanks, you can refuel one when you're using the other.
At least, that's what I know.

First of all, it's physically impossible for you to lucid dream all night because you are only dreaming during REM. As I understand it, most of the actual resting takes place during deep sleep.

Also, you're going to dream regardless of whether or not you're lucid. That means your mind is inventing a vivid world and running around in it. Compared to creating a whole environment, knowing that you're dreaming seems like nothing.

I don't know whether the whole conscious/subconscious mind thing makes a difference, but some people (natural LDers) do have only lucid dreams, and I've yet to hear a single story about them being more tired than the rest of us.

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Originally Posted by Hidden

First of all, it's physically impossible for you to lucid dream all night because you are only dreaming during REM. As I understand it, most of the actual resting takes place during deep sleep.

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I read that there is evidence that shows people do sometimes dream in non-REM sleep, just not as vividly as REM.

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Originally Posted by Noodles

I read that there is evidence that shows people do sometimes dream in non-REM sleep, just not as vividly as REM.

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Oh right, I forgot about that... Still, dreams are mostly in REM. Darn exceptions. =P

I must say the curiousity of this subject has struck me a couple of times, but considering what we know about the REM cycle it wouldn't be possible to do unless you inexplicably managed to alter the various dream stages, prolonging the effect of the latter.
Then again I don't think it would be exactly healthy to carry through.

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TL;DR answer:

Yes, yes it does. Research tells me this, and other things.

Hm, I'd say no. After all, it's more of your physical body needing to rest than your mind. It's active practically all night, especially when you're dreaming - it's still hard at work.

Well, the way I think about it is, it wouldn't be enough to make a difference. I mean, your body is resting regardless, and your mind is resting during non-rem sleep. Your brain might be a tiny bit more active during a lucid dream than a regular one, but it shouldn't affect you much at all.

I would believe that some lucid dreamers find ways to extend their REM sleep. I have found myself wondering about whether it is unhealthy to spend too much time in REM, and not enough in the other phases? Perhaps if it got to a point were you REM for 7 hours and then all the other phases take only an hour or so combined, that would be unhealthy. Who knows though?:?

I dont think so, because your sub concious mind is always doing something all the time. Whether your dreaming or not. But as someone has said, trying to live a second life in your dreams all the time, might make you go a bit insane.

Seems like once you get into a dream, you could do all the tweaking to your dream cycle that you wanted.
Or does your subconscious fight back?
But I do have to agree with Portalboat: Your mind is still resting, and as someone else pointed out, you will dream regardless of whether or not you are lucid.

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Originally Posted by Portalboat

That's why we don't have lucids every night.

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Speak for yourself.

It is entirely possible.
Everyone who is LDing likes to tell people there's no way it can harm you, even though there's not a lot of research out the proving that to be true. They assume becuase they've never personally gotten sick that LDing can't ever be harmful.

I know that personally after a night of Lucid Dreaming I -always- feel more tired. In fact I feel more tired just from having super intense dreams even if I'm not entirely lucid. In fact I always take breaks from practicing LDing because my body isn't well suited to keep it up without going a little loopy during the day. If you're fine though, I wouldn't worry too much about it. Different people are differently affected, I would think. But I'm pretty sure it does take away a certain element of rest from EVERY person, just some people have it on a small unnoticeable scale and others on a larger scale. I mean think about it, some people can function perfectly on 4 hours a sleep a night, oddly enough. So even if Lucid Dreaming does disrupt rest (and I'm sure it does) some wouldn't even notice or feel it.

And people saying your mind doesn't need rest are RIDICULOUS.
Your mind is everything you are, how you function, how you think properly, bodily AND mentally.
When we sleep, (and this hasn't been proven but many scientists speculate) there are many different options for why we need sleep mentally. And their main lead is that our memories and events of the day are being sorted out while we sleep, ect. If we're still busy thinking as hard as possible even while we're asleep then that gets disrupted. Not only that, most people report having better rest after a night that seemed dreamless. If being mostly in our subconscious when we sleep wasn't in some way important, then it wouldn't be a natural occurrence. Lucid Dreaming is not natural, even though we do it by accident sometimes, the extent practitioners of LDing take it to is not natural for our minds. I love Lucid Dreaming but people tend to just say its 100% healthy just because they don't want to believe their hobby could ever harm them in any way.

I know at least two people who are lucid in most or all of there dreams every single night, and they both seem to get enough rest. Anecdotal, I know, but I don't believe being lucid intereferes with your rest.

[QUOTE=Yume.no.ato;1234913]

I know that personally after a night of Lucid Dreaming I -always- feel more tired.

Not only that, most people report having better rest after a night that seemed dreamless.
QUOTE]

That's funny because its the complete opposite for me. Whenever I wake up from an LD and wake up, I feel so energetic that I can immediately jump out of my bed while normally, I find it very hard to get enough energy to sit on my bed when I just woke up. And also, last night, was the only day since a month that I haven't remembered any dreams (and if I say 'since a month' is that I haven't recorded my dreams before that so I wouldn't know but I've always remembered a lot of dreams), so I was saying, last night I didn't remember any dreams but that's because I had the most horrible night since a while, I was insomniac or something.

But your right, I actually don't like the fact that you've said that it was sort of harming, i don't want this hobbie to be harming to me, well, actually, I sincerly feel as if it is healthy for me.

However I do not think that lucid dreaming is 'unatural'. It is simply a skill of awarness. I see practicing lucid dreaming as practicing my mind to be more aware a bit like soccer players practice their legs to be quicker.


Thanks for your responses, all of you.

Does anyone have some scientifical explaination, though? 'Cause, I feel as if this is all your opinions which isn't bad but the people I'm trying to prove that lucid dreams are real and good do not want opinions. :(

lol...

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That's funny because its the complete opposite for me. Whenever I wake up from an LD and wake up, I feel so energetic that I can immediately jump out of my bed while normally, I find it very hard to get enough energy to sit on my bed when I just woke up.

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I agree 100% with this.

In the scenario described, think about NREM sleep. You couldn't be lucid dreaming 100 percent of the time. Its impossible.

You could be lucid dreaming for 100% of the dreaming time, which is what I believe people are saying.

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Originally Posted by Loaf

You could be lucid dreaming for 100% of the dreaming time, which is what I believe people are saying.

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You can't be lucid during NREM right? You still get rest when your sleeping but not dreaming right?

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Originally Posted by Kraftwerk

You can't be lucid during NREM right? You still get rest when your sleeping but not dreaming right?

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I get rest when dreaming.

Sometimes I won't dream all night then I have a lucid dream a few hours before I start the day.

I am wondering if any of you have experimented with waking yourself INTO a Deep Trance state, from a dream... just randomly thought of it.

If you did that then went back into your dream, you could get some realllly relaxing sleep.

Even if it does, I think its worth it::dancingcow:

Moo

Our hearts generally beats almost one time per second. Our brain never is totally asleep. LDs shouldn't be much of a problem, since we just awake another part of the brain...

Dreams and lucid dreams are really the same though, except I read somewhere that in a lucid dream they believe the logic part of the brain becomes active or something.

Actually, I just watched a 7 minutes documentary about sleep/dreams/lucid dreams and it said that the brain was even more active during our sleep than during the day, well, during the REM sleep at least. It said that at that moment, the brain was more active than ever except for the logic part of the brain... So I don't think being lucid makes it so more active... :)

Hey guys; we'd better respect the Dream Pirate...
That gives me an idea!

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Originally Posted by Tobi Uchiha

Hey guys; we'd better respect the Dream Pirate...
That gives me an idea!

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What's your idea?

Well me, it's just that the way the seal talked to me about him in my first lucid dream, is that he was the king of dreams and lucid dreams so I had the feeling he is my dream guide and when I become good in lucid dreams I will go find his boat and ask to meet him and give him a present and then he will maybe be my dream guide... I hope :P

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Originally Posted by Yume.no.ato

I know that personally after a night of Lucid Dreaming I -always- feel more tired.

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I dunno about this, as I don't have that much LD experience to draw on (maybe 8 to date), but I can sure say that TRYING to have an LD has produced many, many sleepless hours, as any type of visualizing tends to wake me up very thoroughly. For instance, when I'm awake during the night and picture myself becoming lucid in a dream, I'm often up for hours or for the rest of the night.

(I'm actually on the verge of giving up trying to have LDs because of it, alas. I feel like I'm losing my mind from lack of sleep.)

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Originally Posted by SleepyCookieDough

Imagine, someone became so good at lucid dreaming that he/she would be lucid through his/her entire sleep,

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I understand that some buddhist practices which include lucid dreaming aim for awareness during all phases of sleep....that does sound paradoxical

For me lucid dreaming has made me sleep more. Usually I'll wake up a lot, but in a lucid dream I often spend more asleep because I am enjoying being asleep.

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Originally Posted by lunar6

I understand that some buddhist practices which include lucid dreaming aim for awareness during all phases of sleep....that does sound paradoxical

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This is quite true; it's part of Tibetan Buddhism, and there are books about it, at least a couple. I have one, but haven't started it yet. If you are able to retain lucidity when a dream ends and be lucid in the non-dream space, that is supposed to be akin to a very deep level of meditation.

(That is on my list of things to do, right at the bottom of it, since it probably takes some doing to approach it.)

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Originally Posted by SleepyCookieDough

What's your idea?

Well me, it's just that the way the seal talked to me about him in my first lucid dream, is that he was the king of dreams and lucid dreams so I had the feeling he is my dream guide and when I become good in lucid dreams I will go find his boat and ask to meet him and give him a present and then he will maybe be my dream guide... I hope :P

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I'd like to manifest the pirate and see if I can't ask him what the person was doing that was so disrespectful, not to question the Pirate's legitimacy; but just to see what kind of answer I get.

I of course will have to get lucid first lol >.<

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Originally Posted by LWA

This is quite true; it's part of Tibetan Buddhism, and there are books about it, at least a couple. I have one, but haven't started it yet. If you are able to retain lucidity when a dream ends and be lucid in the non-dream space, that is supposed to be akin to a very deep level of meditation.

(That is on my list of things to do, right at the bottom of it, since it probably takes some doing to approach it.)

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Sounds close to my idea; which was waking myself into a Deep Trance and I've never studied Tibetan Buddhism; perhaps I should

OH!-Stephen Colbert is on.
BRB! lol

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Originally Posted by LWA

This is quite true; it's part of Tibetan Buddhism, and there are books about it, at least a couple. I have one, but haven't started it yet. If you are able to retain lucidity when a dream ends and be lucid in the non-dream space, that is supposed to be akin to a very deep level of meditation.

(That is on my list of things to do, right at the bottom of it, since it probably takes some doing to approach it.)

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That sounds kinda boring... It's neat, but why would you want to be conscious through the whole night?

A few points. first of all babies spend what 50 to 75 % of their time in REM? so obviously (?) REM is supportive of growing rapidly. i don't think REM can be bad for you.

secondly i believe we are having levels of consciousness at many levels simultaneously. it's just that most people aren't conscious of their levels.

so in tibetan dream yoga i believe... or other forms of awareness practice... you learn to tap into what is already happening. you are already dreaming, already having multiple states of awarenesses.

hey everyone: YOU ARE GENIUSES! that's right. LD is teaching you to reclaim this and to function with optimal capacity! to wake up from your slumber and become superhuman.

you can do it...!!! i can do it... !!! (well, i'm trying, anyway.)

wish me luck, this is the direction i want to head.

i think the tiredness comes from waking up, and/or not getting back to sleep, the stresses of the friction of our emotions when we don't get it right, let go of potential ld's, not remembering dreams, etc... well, again, i know that's the part where i think i get tired or discouraged.

true LD nourishes my soul because i know i am coming home to my deeper/deepest levels of being.

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Originally Posted by beachgirl

A few points. first of all babies spend what 50 to 75 % of their time in REM? so obviously (?) REM is supportive of growing rapidly. i don't think REM can be bad for you.

secondly i believe we are having levels of consciousness at many levels simultaneously. it's just that most people aren't conscious of their levels.

so in tibetan dream yoga i believe... or other forms of awareness practice... you learn to tap into what is already happening. you are already dreaming, already having multiple states of awarenesses.

hey everyone: YOU ARE GENIUSES! that's right. LD is teaching you to reclaim this and to function with optimal capacity! to wake up from your slumber and become superhuman.

you can do it...!!! i can do it... !!! (well, i'm trying, anyway.)

wish me luck, this is the direction i want to head.

i think the tiredness comes from waking up, and/or not getting back to sleep, the stresses of the friction of our emotions when we don't get it right, let go of potential ld's, not remembering dreams, etc... well, again, i know that's the part where i think i get tired or discouraged.

true LD nourishes my soul because i know i am coming home to my deeper/deepest levels of being.

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I hope everyone see's your post. It is so important for us to become aware of what we are capable of. Although I have not attained lucidity yet; I have experienced many other spiritual highs. Trance comes innately to me for some reason; I usually have full fledged conversations while talking to others, and maintaining full attentiveness: If those of you reading this cannot do that; then you must believe that we are aware on multiple levels... that or I'm just special, which I don't think is true. Least not in that way.

I never experience anything spiritual.. I don't meditate or anything. I do LD all the time and I think I may have shared a dream once or twice now... unless it was just a coincidence.

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Originally Posted by Loaf

I never experience anything spiritual.. I don't meditate or anything. I do LD all the time and I think I may have shared a dream once or twice now... unless it was just a coincidence.

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It wasn't a coincidence Loaf... it was a shared dream, and I'm gonna keep telling you that to keep you believing it. From what I've read, believing is a lot of where your power comes from.

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Originally Posted by Tobi Uchiha

I'd like to manifest the pirate and see if I can't ask him what the person was doing that was so disrespectful, not to question the Pirate's legitimacy; but just to see what kind of answer I get.

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I know what my brother did that was disrespectful. Actually, it is something that most of us as lucid dreamers experience and I guess its not very fun for us... So ask him and then we can compare. (by the way, I've always picture Dream Pirate as a fat beared man with awesome pirate clothes but I try very much not to picture him at all so my asumptions don't change who he really is...


And about the tibetian dream yoga which buddhists practice is pretty much like beachgirl said. I've read it was about being aware at all time, while we live and when we sleep, when dream or when we are dead because Buddhists believe that death is a bit like dreams. Being aware at all time, especially being able to lucid dream most of the time allows you, when you are dead to be aware that everything you see is an illusion, a bit like a dream and then that way you can decide where you want to be reborn. This is the ulitmate goal of lucid dreaming for Buddhists I guess, but also the fact thet they are in an lucid level of awareness at all time and that is awesome.

I personally try to be aware most of the times. It is hard... and I find meditation boring so it makes it harder I guess... :)

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Originally Posted by SleepyCookieDough

I know what my brother did that was disrespectful. Actually, it is something that most of us as lucid dreamers experience and I guess its not very fun for us... So ask him and then we can compare. (by the way, I've always picture Dream Pirate as a fat beared man with awesome pirate clothes but I try very much not to picture him at all so my asumptions don't change who he really is...


And about the tibetian dream yoga which buddhists practice is pretty much like beachgirl said. I've read it was about being aware at all time, while we live and when we sleep, when dream or when we are dead because Buddhists believe that death is a bit like dreams. Being aware at all time, especially being able to lucid dream most of the time allows you, when you are dead to be aware that everything you see is an illusion, a bit like a dream and then that way you can decide where you want to be reborn. This is the ulitmate goal of lucid dreaming for Buddhists I guess, but also the fact thet they are in an lucid level of awareness at all time and that is awesome.

I personally try to be aware most of the times. It is hard... and I find meditation boring so it makes it harder I guess... :)

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I will make sure to find out from the Dream Pirate, and I'll let you know how similar he looks to your description.
I have also tried to hold awareness's, it isn't all that easy, whoever said we aren't perfect was spot on lol.
I do actually enjoy meditation, but like I said it comes to me naturally, I was meditating as a child believe it or not.

I am really interested in this Tibetan Dream Yoga... I'll have to look it up.
Sounds like it would be right up my alley of things I like to study.

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Originally Posted by Tobi Uchiha

I will make sure to find out from the Dream Pirate, and I'll let you know how similar he looks to your description.
I have also tried to hold awareness's, it isn't all that easy, whoever said we aren't perfect was spot on lol.
I do actually enjoy meditation, but like I said it comes to me naturally, I was meditating as a child believe it or not.

I am really interested in this Tibetan Dream Yoga... I'll have to look it up.
Sounds like it would be right up my alley of things I like to study.

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sounds good ;)

And actually, I do try meditation too, just not in my free time. I do it during school masses or when class becomes VERY boring, lol! I like meditating in does times :dancingcow:

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Originally Posted by SleepyCookieDough

sounds good ;)

And actually, I do try meditation too, just not in my free time. I do it during school masses or when class becomes VERY boring, lol! I like meditating in does times :dancingcow:

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Ahh, I do enjoy meditating at those times too ^_^
It is really nice to have a place to go to when I need quiet.

I always end up under a giant willow tree, sitting in a throne that is built right into the trunk.

The tree is my designated elder in my meditations.

As usual, I haven't gone through all the posts, but I just wanted to say that even during lucid dreaming, your brain is barely more awake than before. It's only that SOME logic comes into use. I don't think it's possible to use all of your logic abilities in a dream, or any other part of the brain not already being used. So, in the unlikely case that someone is that good, they will still sleep well.

Also, some studies think that dreaming is a kind of sorting process for unimportant memories from the day. In this case, your mind probably isn't even resting much then to begin with, so being aware, if anything, is more insult to injury (albeit an injury that makes no difference anyways).

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Originally Posted by Tobi Uchiha

I am wondering if any of you have experimented with waking yourself INTO a Deep Trance state, from a dream... just randomly thought of it.

If you did that then went back into your dream, you could get some realllly relaxing sleep.

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Lunar 6:

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I understand that some buddhist practices which include lucid dreaming aim for awareness during all phases of sleep....that does sound paradoxical

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This is basically what it is. When a lucid dream ends, stay lucid, without waking up. Before a lucid dream begins, stay lucid. When you awake in the morning, stay lucid. During the day, stay lucid. Before you go to bed, stay lucid.
Your mind and body rests during sleep. The mind rests by going into deeper brainwaves. Delta brainwaves are the deepest and most restful when all the growth hormones are released into your body. You know that feeling of going into delta, it is like being recharged. Some people believe that this is when your mind returns to the source to be recharged. It definately feels like a drop merging into the ocean. Then comes the return where the drop emerges from the ocean and you enter REM. Some people believe that this is the minds journey back to solid reality of waking. This is the tibetan view. They say that waking life corresponds to life, Sleep corresponds to Death, and Dreaming corresponds to seeking rebirth. The practice of dream yoga is to remain aware and lucid through all these states without obliteration of consciousness that happens when people fall asleep or dies. According to the Tibetans, when someone dies he encounters the CLEAR LIGHT (not white light). The clear light of death is called 'the Mother light'. Upon falling asleep and before dreaming (from alpha to theta and finally to delta) upon arriving in Delta one encounters 'THE CLEAR LIGHT OF SLEEP' or 'the son light'. They call it the son because according to them it is just like the clear light of death but smaller.

You will only be tired if your awareness keeps you from going into Delta, in which case you need to relax more and try it more effortlessly. But, 'Gurus' and other 'enlightened' people say that upon enlightenment they never lose consciousness and that they are aware 24-7. And what is more, only 'enlightened' people don't dream anymore, unless they choose to, but it isn't compulsory.

By practicing lucid dream yoga, the tibetans claim that they prepare for the transition between death and rebirth. First of all, they say that if you merge with the clear light of death you will be liberated and enlightened. The ability to do that at death is measured by the ability to do that when sleeping.
If one blacks out when one dies (which they say happens to most) one will eventually find oneself in a realm of visions (they call it Bardo of rebirth), which one mistakes for being real (like dreams). Both beautiful and terrifying visions are possible. But you still can become liberated in the Bardo if one becomes lucid and recognizes all the scenery and beautiful and terrifying beings as only projections of one's mind. They have great instructions on achieving lucidity in the Bardo called "The Book of Liberation by Hearing" AKA: "The Tibetan Book of the Dead" or "Bardo Thodol"

When one achieves lucidity in the Bardos, the Tibetans claim that they can choose to be reborn or not and keep their lucidity and memories of their past life. They can choose when and where to be reborn, in this world or another. These people are called "Tulkus". The Dalia Lama is just one such person who has this title. For such a person it is said that even this world is like a lucid dream.

But for the person who does not achieve lucidity he ends up running from terrifying demons or hallucinations and goes and hides behind a bush or a cave or something but it turns out to be a womb and he is reborn without lucidity and it is by chance to whom he is born and where.

The Tibetans believe that a person can be reborn either in a Hell, or as a hungry ghost, or as an animal, or as a human, or as a powerful jealous God, or as a demon depending on the quality of their awareness. All these states are temporary and even if they become a god they will have to eventually die and go through the whole process over and over and over again until finally they can enter the clear light with awareness and become liberated from the whole cycle of life, death, rebirth.

Whether or not this is true is not the point, but the point is that this all applies to lucid dreaming and staying lucid all night and all day. But you have to merge into the Delta (clear light of sleep) in order to recharge your energy. And if you get very angry you lose your lucidity and you are in a hell realm. If you get greedy, worried about food and sex and survival, you are in an animal consciousness, if you are addicted to something like a substance or an emotion or a person you have the hungry ghost consciousness. If you are constantly trying to improve yourself but get hung up and vain about it you will have the jealous god consciousness, etc... Movie stars in Hollywood remind me of Jealous gods, Alcoholics and Drug Addicts remind me of hungry ghosts. Prison and jail are Hell and war is hell, etc...

So.... Be lucid, don't forget, practice entering deeper and deeper brainwaves without losing awareness.

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first of all babies spend what 50 to 75 % of their time in REM

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This is because they are learning sooo rapidly the mind needs to process it all. It is like the Matrix is being downloaded into them.

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Originally Posted by Dannon Oneironaut

This is because they are learning sooo rapidly the mind needs to process it all. It is like the Matrix is being downloaded into them.

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Lol, I never thought about this.

@Dannon Oneironaut
I am glad you took the time to write all that information.
I actually stay aware pretty far into sleep; once I get the hang of it I don't think WILDS will be that much of a problem due to my innate trance ability.
Now that you have told me more, I find myself greatly interested in this Tibetan Dream Yoga.

The ideas are very profound, in a good way.
I would be hopeful that I will be able to choose my path, but that remains to be seen.

Either way though; I am studying neuroscience, so I must remind you that the brain does release a chemical on death; called 5MEODMT, I don't remember much about it, but it is said to be the trigger to spiritual enlightenment just before death; putting you at peace with everything, perhaps this is the state you speak of.

This doesn't discredit what you have said at all, just putting in my two cents.

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Originally Posted by Tobi Uchiha

@Dannon Oneironaut
I
Either way though; I am studying neuroscience, so I must remind you that the brain does release a chemical on death; called 5MEODMT, I don't remember much about it, but it is said to be the trigger to spiritual enlightenment just before death; putting you at peace with everything, perhaps this is the state you speak of.

This doesn't discredit what you have said at all, just putting in my two cents.

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I was actually going to go into it a little more about the DMT but the post was long enough and I was trying to stay on topic. But I can't resist now that you bring it up.

Yes, DMT is released from the pineal gland when one dies. It is also relaeased at other times such as during childbirth (in both the mother and the baby) unless the mother is on drugs and/or the baby is born through cesarean. DMT is released in dreams. DMT is also released in the embryo or fetus (I forgot the difference between embryo and fetus) at the 49th day of pregnancy when the pineal gland is developed. It is interesting to note that according to the Tibetan Buddhists it takes at least 49 days to reincarnate.
My feeling is that DMT is the chemical of consciousness in the brain. A lot of DMT acts as a bridge between the Bardos. Just the right amount keeps you operating in waking life functionally. Too much will make you schizophrenic, too little will make you feel dull and slow and stupid and unaware. This makes sense since anti-psychotic drugs like Thorazine block the receptors in the brain that recieve DMT and this is how patients describe the feeling of being on Thorazine.
It is interesting how the pineal produces DMT. It needs sufficient melatonin and melatonin is only created when you are in darkness, ie. sleeping. I am not educated on how melatonin is converted into DMT but it seems like DMT is necessary for dreaming. Another interesting fact is how the pineal gland is not part of the brain, but it is IN the brain in the hollow center, am I right? So the DMT is released directly into the brain and brain/spinal fluid before it even enters the bloodstream. So it is hard to measure the amount of active DMT in someone because by the time it arrives in the blood stream most of it is used up. Is this correct or am I confused?
Tryptomines are fascinating.
This, I think, further reinforces the relationship between death and dreaming.

What does DMT do? I got comfused at that point...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SleepyCookieDough

What does DMT do? I got comfused at that point...

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It is the most powerful psychedelic drug that people take to have multi-dimensional experiences where they encounter entities that are either alien, elves, or fractal light beings. Most people smoke it and immediately think that they have died. It comes on in about 3 econds and the whole trip lasts about 15 mintues.
http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.cgi?S1=18

Check out this link.

I started a thread in Beyond Dreaming about this so that we can be more on topic: http://dreamviews.com/community/showthread.php?t=87772

Thanks...

But did you guys say that pregnent women experience some death kind of thing for 15 minutes on their 47 day?

First Question: No. Lack of sleep stops you from resting. NEXT

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Portalboat

Well, from what I know, the mind doesn't need rest. Although, of course, if you decide to live out a second life, THEN you might go insane.

But my answer is: That's why we don't have lucids every night.

---

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lucidness

I dont think so, because your sub concious mind is always doing something all the time. Whether your dreaming or not. But as someone has said, trying to live a second life in your dreams all the time, might make you go a bit insane.

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I have lucids every night. I live out a second life in dreams. I am going crazy, wanna come?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WakingNomad

I have lucids every night. I live out a second life in dreams. I am going crazy, wanna come?

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Incidentally, I've done the same for years. Not insane yet, and I get plenty of rest (although I like having extra sleep so I sleep in whenever possible. :)

Well dreaming is just your imagination going a million miles an hour...

During the day... that part of the brain tends to relax.

During the night, the Day parts of the brain turn off and the imagination center turns on.

So i see no harm in being 100% lucid all the time.

It's just swapping around the brain areas for different usages.

The part of the brain that is active during LD, my beleif is, is NOT used in day to day activity.

Rather, it get's an ECHO of your day to day activity. (memory is stored all throughout the brain in random locations.)

I'm kinda hard to read here so I hope this makes a bit of sense. ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OfficerFlake

Well dreaming is just your imagination going a million miles an hour...

During the day... that part of the brain tends to relax.

During the night, the Day parts of the brain turn off and the imagination center turns on.

So i see no harm in being 100% lucid all the time.

It's just swapping around the brain areas for different usages.

The part of the brain that is active during LD, my beleif is, is NOT used in day to day activity.

Rather, it get's an ECHO of your day to day activity. (memory is stored all throughout the brain in random locations.)

I'm kinda hard to read here so I hope this makes a bit of sense. ;)

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just wondering, is this a personal theory or is this really what some studies show. Just wondering what to make of this.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Xedan

just wondering, is this a personal theory or is this really what some studies show. Just wondering what to make of this.

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It's not exactly scientific, no, it's more of a very broad layman's explanation (no offense to Flake).

Yeah parts of the brain shut down during sleep and dreams, but as far as I know there is no literal imagination center of the brain. ;)

I actually asked my Biology teacher (Who studied Neurology for about 12 years) about this and she said yes, exsessive Lucid dreaming IS bad for you. Your body only rests if if can get to the Deeper states of sleep which it is not able to do in Lucid Dreaming. She said without getting to this nessisary state you will first become stressed and then eventually psycocotic. So in conclusion I would say yes.
Although please note - I don't know how much she actually knows about Lucid dreaming and her personal views (I think she's against it) may have colored her opinion.
Hope i helped! =)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by VividlyFloating

I actually asked my Biology teacher (Who studied Neurology for about 12 years) about this and she said yes, exsessive Lucid dreaming IS bad for you. Your body only rests if if can get to the Deeper states of sleep which it is not able to do in Lucid Dreaming. She said without getting to this nessisary state you will first become stressed and then eventually psycocotic. So in conclusion I would say yes.
Although please note - I don't know how much she actually knows about Lucid dreaming and her personal views (I think she's against it) may have colored her opinion.
Hope i helped! =)

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Obviously she is right in that you so need to spend time in Delta brainwave frequency but she is wrong in thinking that lucid dreaming will keep you from spending time in Delta.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SleepyCookieDough

Thanks...

But did you guys say that pregnent women experience some death kind of thing for 15 minutes on their 47 day?

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Well, no... Ok. here it is: If you take a hit of DMT from a pipe it will last for about 15 minutes. This is because the brain uses it up real fast. It gobbles it down. It loves it. And there is a chemical that breaks it down. However, it is made in your body in the pineal gland. If it is released over a period of time it will last that period of time.

And the fetus's pineal gland matures and releases DMT at 49 days, not the mother. So the fetus has an intense multidimensional trip at that moment. The Mother AND th Fetus both release DMT during a natural childbirth.

SO if you were born Naturally you had an intense psychedelic trip at 49 days when you entered into your mother's womb (my interpretation), and when you were born when you entered into this world. Every night when you dream you have a psychedelic experience, especially when you are lucid. This is why I think that it is possible to use lucid dreaming for spiritual growth.

I agree with Awakening

Stephen LaBerge says in ETWOLD that lucid dreaming DOESN'T affect you in any bad way. Just thought I'd throw that out there.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by VividlyFloating

she said yes, exsessive Lucid dreaming IS bad for you. Your body only rests if if can get to the Deeper states of sleep which it is not able to do in Lucid Dreaming. She said without getting to this nessisary state you will first become stressed and then eventually psycocotic. So in conclusion I would say yes.
Although please note - I don't know how much she actually knows about Lucid dreaming and her personal views (I think she's against it) may have colored her opinion.
Hope i helped! =)

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maybe, disapproving of lucid dreaming, she puts the cart before the horse and thinks 'I dont approve of it therefore it must be harmful' or that there much be some kind of punishment (you go mad).
Did she provide scientifically verifiable examples of psychosis that resulted from over doing lucid dreaming?

Maybe it is the case that if you were lucid during all your dream periods this would be harmful but I'd imagine that your brain would self regulate and make sure that it got what it needed?

Why would someone be 'against' lucid dreaming?
I mean, cant you do what you like in your own head :cheeky:

Wow, this thread has grown since last time I was here.

I'm just gonna echo what others have said and say that lucid dreaming most likely has no drawback in terms of rest. After all, the few naturals you see that lucid dream every single night don't seem to be affected, so why would the rest of us? And if it is so unhealthy, I would think the subconscious would step in, like lunar6 said. I find the discussion of DMT and Tibetan beliefs fascinating too, but I guess there's a separate thread for that now. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Singularity125

Wow, this thread has grown since last time I was here.

I'm just gonna echo what others have said and say that lucid dreaming most likely has no drawback in terms of rest. After all, the few naturals you see that lucid dream every single night don't seem to be affected, so why would the rest of us? And if it is so unhealthy, I would think the subconscious would step in, like lunar6 said. I find the discussion of DMT and Tibetan beliefs fascinating too, but I guess there's a separate thread for that now. :)

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But in that Tibetan beliefs, comes that them train to be aware 24/7. One more proof that it doesn't stop you from resting...

There is no drawback to being aware!!! Rather, there are drawbacks to being ignorant!!!
Awareness doesn't stop relaxation!!! In fact you need to relax to become more aware!!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by VividlyFloating

I actually asked my Biology teacher (Who studied Neurology for about 12 years) about this and she said yes, exsessive Lucid dreaming IS bad for you. Your body only rests if if can get to the Deeper states of sleep which it is not able to do in Lucid Dreaming. She said without getting to this nessisary state you will first become stressed and then eventually psycocotic. So in conclusion I would say yes.
Although please note - I don't know how much she actually knows about Lucid dreaming and her personal views (I think she's against it) may have colored her opinion.
Hope i helped! =)

---

She's probably like my mom and the other people I've been talking about. The people who are septic about Lucid Dreams do not believe its possible and then they say that if you're conscious you need to be awake and then I need to keep saying that I've been lucid many times and I know from experience that it is possible to be conscious and dream at the same time so they assume that if you can be conscious without being awake, then you have to be awake but asleep at the same time: Dreaming but not resting. I think septic people think to hard. They try to find explanations or something. lucid dreams simply exist and its simply possible to be conscious during a dream, there's not so complicated I think. YOu're teacher probably just said that because it is logical to her that being conscious is a antonym of sleeping. Like someone said it before, you do need Delta but lucid dreaming doesn't stop you from being in that state.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dannon Oneironaut

There is no drawback to being aware!!! Rather, there are drawbacks to being ignorant!!!
Awareness doesn't stop relaxation!!! In fact you need to relax to become more aware!!!

---

That's true. :)

I don't understand why people have trouble believing in lucid dreams. All you are doing is realizing you are asleep.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Noodles

I read that there is evidence that shows people do sometimes dream in non-REM sleep, just not as vividly as REM.

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how long does it take to get into rem? cos i fell asleep in a german test like a couple of months ago, my mate said i was only sleeping for about three minutes, but i remember someone throwing rocks at me and then when i woke up i like put my hands up so the 'rocks' wouldnt hit me:laughhard:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by XeL

Stephen LaBerge says in ETWOLD that lucid dreaming DOESN'T affect you in any bad way. Just thought I'd throw that out there.

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Yes, this. LaBerg is an expert on the physiology of lucid dreaming, so I would take his word over anyone else's.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Loaf

I don't understand why people have trouble believing in lucid dreams. All you are doing is realizing you are asleep.

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Well, because they never experienced it and they don't believe the evidence. And even with evidence, they don't want to believe anything "wierd". Plus, it kind of reminds them that they don't know everything. They want to think that everyone is like them except for 'wierd' people and that they are 'normal'. They don't see everyone else talking about or believing in lucid dreams so they go along with the flock and shrug it off. also, it has occult connotations to them. It reminds them of things like astral projection and magick and that is just either crazy hocus-pocus or it is satanic to them. Plus they don't see any value in it if it is true. They have little imaginations. They think "so you can do anything you want? So what?". Plus they might be a little bitter that they can't do anything that they want so why should anyone else. You don't get to do anything you want in life, wake up and join the real world. That is what they might think.
Ahhh, such little imagination and such bitterness and ignorance :(

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dannon Oneironaut

Well, because they never experienced it and they don't believe the evidence. And even with evidence, they don't want to believe anything "wierd". Plus, it kind of reminds them that they don't know everything. They want to think that everyone is like them except for 'wierd' people and that they are 'normal'. They don't see everyone else talking about or believing in lucid dreams so they go along with the flock and shrug it off. also, it has occult connotations to them. It reminds them of things like astral projection and magick and that is just either crazy hocus-pocus or it is satanic to them. Plus they don't see any value in it if it is true. They have little imaginations. They think "so you can do anything you want? So what?". Plus they might be a little bitter that they can't do anything that they want so why should anyone else. You don't get to do anything you want in life, wake up and join the real world. That is what they might think.
Ahhh, such little imagination and such bitterness and ignorance :(

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I guess all of this is true but I still don't get it. I remember how I found lucid dreams... I was talking about dreams with someone and realized how much they were cool. I wanted to remember more of them. I thought that if I trained I might be able to remember ALL of my dreams. So I researched "how to remember dreams" and found lucid dreaming... I realized I might never remember ALL my dreams but I thought lucid dreams were just 100000 times better and I thought I had found the best thing in the world and i didn't even doubt one second, i just started researching as much as I could.

I didn't doubt, so its hard for me to think people react like that to them. My mom blames every mistake I do on lucid dreams... :roll:

But what really bugs me is that I feel so lonely. I don't know anyone else that does lucid dreams or that is interested in them. Don't you guys feel like that? Lucid dreams are so cool that it's hard for me to to talk about them, especially with my family which all know I do them but they always ask me to stop talking about them. I don't get it! They don't just ignore me, they tell me to STOP talking about. They tell me they don't care. normally, when someone talks about something boring everyone pretends they're interested but no they tell me to stop, and then they (my brothers) start talking about video games... It annoys me. The only place that I can talk about lucid dreams is here but I don't actually know anyone here (for real) so its not the same... I wish more peopel knew about them... At least one person that I would know.

I don't have hard evidence to back me up, but I've been on the site for over a year now and this has come up many times. As far as I can tell, we haven't come up with anything conclusive, but here's my logical thought process:

Most of the reason for needing sleep is to recover the energy that your body uses up. You see (if I remember correctly; I had to study a chart for school once) your body is constantly gaining and losing energy, but during waking life, your body can't gain enough energy to make up for what it loses, so you sleep to recharge. Now, I imagine, the part that the brain needs is a very minimal part. You could probably make this up in your Non-REM sleep, in which you are highly unlikely to have any dreams requiring too much concentration to the brain.
So, to answer your question, if you did NOTHING but lucid dream while you were asleep, it probably wouldn't be good for your health. But, otherwise, you should be fine.

Also, nice to have you back Sleepy. Hope you stay for a while.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SleepyCookieDough

But what really bugs me is that I feel so lonely. I don't know anyone else that does lucid dreams or that is interested in them. Don't you guys feel like that? Lucid dreams are so cool that it's hard for me to to talk about them, especially with my family which all know I do them but they always ask me to stop talking about them. I don't get it! They don't just ignore me, they tell me to STOP talking about. They tell me they don't care. normally, when someone talks about something boring everyone pretends they're interested but no they tell me to stop, and then they (my brothers) start talking about video games... It annoys me. The only place that I can talk about lucid dreams is here but I don't actually know anyone here (for real) so its not the same... I wish more peopel knew about them... At least one person that I would know.

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I know what you mean. I know only a few people that are into dreaming and they are only interested in interpreting them and they aren't into the lucidity as much. And they are all on the other side of the country. And they aren't even my close friends. My close friends think its neat but they aren't interested in putting in the discipline. I guess they aren't THAT interested. We are a unique tribe of people, SleepyCookieDough. Get used to it. It is kind of lonely out here on the fringe.

For Vividly: I think there are biological (and associated psycological) problems with having excessive REM... which some people have.... which your teacher may be confusing with lucid dreaming.

For Dannon Oneironaut: You said, When a lucid dream ends, stay lucid, without waking up. Before a lucid dream begins, stay lucid. When you awake in the morning, stay lucid. During the day, stay lucid. Before you go to bed, stay lucid.

Could you elaborate on this, please? I think i may have done this after my WILD this morning. I woke up but was able to access the creativity of the dreamstate but was not getting visuals. At some point, however, i transitioned into "i think i'll wake up now".

So what does it mean to "live lucid"? It is a phased thing ie depending on whether you just came out of a lucid dream ... or is being lucid a constant state of awareness? if so what is it like?

Also, do you think periodically using sound to bring on certain brainwaves like theta and delta (or possibly even gamma) will help? i guess this is an alternative to meditating.

many thanks,
beachgirl

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SleepyCookieDough

Imagine, someone became so good at lucid dreaming that he/she would be lucid through his/her entire sleep, would it be harmful to the reason that each day we sleep: Resting/ recovering/ Reload our energy... ?

It's not that I'm worried that it might but whenever I tell someone they tell me that anybody that lucid dreams is gonna go pshyco after a while because if they're conscious during their sleep, they are not resting, therefore they will be tired at all time, go crazy or all the rest that happens to people who do not sleep. When they tell me that, I don't know what to say to prove that its not true. The only thing I find to say is:

You're body is what needs to rest and even if your lucid, its still resting so it doesn't matter.

And then they say: "Your mind has to rest too"

And my answer is: "The way your mind rests is by dreaming. When your lucid, you're still dreaming, so your mind is still resting."

I actually just guessed that. It was the most logical answer that came to my mind (no pun intented). I wanted to know if there's a more "scientifical" explanation to this. (Or if, it actually stops you from resting)

Thanks :)

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Heres an intersting bit of info regarding the mind an dreams;
Neurology of sleep and dreams

Accumulated observation shows that dreams are strongly associated with rapid eye movement (REM) sleep, during which an electroencephalogram shows brain activity to be most like wakefulness so when your dreaming your brains going for it!!

Your mind and body both get some rest during non-REM sleep, although even in non-REM sleep you can have simple dreams, or, in rare cases, sleepwalking and night terrors, indicating some sort of mind activity. During REM sleep, your mind is about as active as it is while awake, so whether you're lucid or not doesn't matter much - your mind isn't resting when you're dreaming, regardless. Although, it may be consolidating short-term memories into long-term via the dream imagery...they say getting more REM while learning something helps you learn it better.

However, self-awareness and willpower can wax and wane naturally whether you're lucid-dreaming or awake...chances are you will not be in a relatively heightened state of self-awareness all the time, unless you're one of those natural lucid dreamers who maintained the ability since childhood, and even then, that's only heightened awareness while you sleep.

So, no, lucid dreaming in itself probably does not deprive you of physical or mental rest. However, a "wake back to bed" induction attempt just might deprive you of some rest (mostly by depriving you of non-REM sleep you'd be getting while you're awake and thinking of lucid dreaming), which is why those of us who are not natural LDers tend not to LD every night.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by beachgirl

For Dannon Oneironaut: You said, When a lucid dream ends, stay lucid, without waking up. Before a lucid dream begins, stay lucid. When you awake in the morning, stay lucid. During the day, stay lucid. Before you go to bed, stay lucid.

Could you elaborate on this, please? I think i may have done this after my WILD this morning. I woke up but was able to access the creativity of the dreamstate but was not getting visuals. At some point, however, i transitioned into "i think i'll wake up now".

So what does it mean to "live lucid"? It is a phased thing ie depending on whether you just came out of a lucid dream ... or is being lucid a constant state of awareness? if so what is it like?

Also, do you think periodically using sound to bring on certain brainwaves like theta and delta (or possibly even gamma) will help? i guess this is an alternative to meditating.

many thanks,
beachgirl

---

To live lucid means to have that same relaxed self awareness that you have during a lucid dream during the day as well. To be able to pay attention to details around you at the same time as the whole environment as one unity and at the same time your own consciousness and to realize that the only way that you are able to perceive your environment is because of your own awareness. I get into this state by pretending that I am in a lucid dream during the day and I look at how effortlessly my mind creates the environment is such lucid detail. Of course I am awake and the question of whether or not it is a projection of my mind or not is purely philosophical, but I don't worry about the philosophy of it but I use it as a technique. Of course, having regular lucid dreams helps. During sleep one can remain lucid for the duration of the dream and even when the dream is over in which case if one doesn't wake up one will experience pure consciousness without form, it is very blissful. It is not an alternative to meditation... it IS meditation, or SAMADHI. I don't know about gamma waves, I'll have to research those. I use sound the sound technique I talked about above to prepare for WILDing. But I do the AH OM HUM RAM (rum) DZA mantra. I first do AH a number of times to vibrate the third eye until I am visualizing a strong white color and my head feels spacious, and I then move on to red OM in throat chakra and do likewise. Then blue HUM at heart likewise, Red RAM in belly likewise, and then green DZA in the root chakra. I take time with each syllable before moving on to the next. This has the effect of opening and purifying and energizing the channels and getting a good relaxed flow through body and mind which facillitates lucidity.

The other night I remained lucid the whole night and felt completely rested in the morning 8 hours later. I could tell that I was in DELTA when I wasn't dreaming but I felt like my head was in a bright light and I felt bodyless.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by oniman7

Also, nice to have you back Sleepy. Hope you stay for a while.

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I hope I will too. I sort of stopped keeping a dream journal and having LDs during the summer 'cause I had a job which took more of my time than school and I didn't have any time to remember my dreams in the morning but exactly a month and a week ago I got mad at myself for stopping and I restarted. I then also got the need to come back... lol!

Thanks for your answer too! :P

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dannon Oneironaut

We are a unique tribe of people, SleepyCookieDough. Get used to it. It is kind of lonely out here on the fringe.

---

yeah, I know... I like it that we are unique actually. The thing is that I wish I knew only one more person. I don't need more than one person. 'cause I like the unique thing with lucid dreams. I like that they are considered weird by most people. It makes me feel special. lol! When I found lucid dreams it was like the best thing in the world. It's as if I'm entering that other world that no one has access too. It's as if us, lucid dreamer, have a key to a special land way better than Earth and no one knows about it or wants to know about it because they are too bizarre...
That reminds me how when i do an RC, someone that knows I do LDs will be like "what are you doing?" and I'll say "checking if I'm dreaming or not" and they they'll reply "You don't know if your dreaming or not? Wo, you're lost!"... I find it so ironic because they don't know if their dreaming or not either. Everyone just 'assumes' there not dreaming, they don't 'know'. And then when we're dreaming, we, lucid dreamers, (sometimes or most of the time) know that we are doing while these people who think we're lost think they know they are still not dreaming... It be funny if they had a dream in which they saw someone doing a RC and they would have the dialogue I just wrote. That be an epic fail... "You don't know if you're dreaming or not? Wo, you're lost, man! We're obviously not dreaming!" (within a dream)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by beachgirl

For Dannon Oneironaut: You said, When a lucid dream ends, stay lucid, without waking up. Before a lucid dream begins, stay lucid. When you awake in the morning, stay lucid. During the day, stay lucid. Before you go to bed, stay lucid.

Could you elaborate on this, please? I think i may have done this after my WILD this morning. I woke up but was able to access the creativity of the dreamstate but was not getting visuals. At some point, however, i transitioned into "i think i'll wake up now".

So what does it mean to "live lucid"? It is a phased thing ie depending on whether you just came out of a lucid dream ... or is being lucid a constant state of awareness? if so what is it like?

---

It is a state of awareness and it feels a bit like a lucid dream. Well, the best way is to tell yourself you're in one and that's probably why you can only be lucid when awake if you had lucid dreams before because then you know how to feel. It's actually very nice to be lucid while aware. I feel very happy when i am. It's also easier to think to do a RC when you are.

Well, this is my opinion, I don't know if it is exactly what Danon_Oineraut meant.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by big dreams

Heres an intersting bit of info regarding the mind an dreams;
Neurology of sleep and dreams

Accumulated observation shows that dreams are strongly associated with rapid eye movement (REM) sleep, during which an electroencephalogram shows brain activity to be most like wakefulness so when your dreaming your brains going for it!!

---

That proves it well. Well, I told my mom these things so now she changed arguments. She doesn't tell me "you're not getting any rest" but whenever I forget something (I use to forget things so much before I started lucid dreaming) but now, I only do it very few times, well she tells me it is because of my lucid dreams which are making me unaware and are keeping me in my bubble and I found that very stupid because lucid dream is about being aware. I also feel one with the world when I'm lucid, well not litteraly, but I sort a feel like that so I'm definitly not in my own bubble.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by innerspacecadet

So, no, lucid dreaming in itself probably does not deprive you of physical or mental rest. However, a "wake back to bed" induction attempt just might deprive you of some rest (mostly by depriving you of non-REM sleep you'd be getting while you're awake and thinking of lucid dreaming), which is why those of us who are not natural LDers tend not to LD every night.

---

Well, buddhits don't lucid dream but they lucid sleep, like during non-REM and also during REM sleep they will just stay in the darkness and meditate. WHat would that do?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dannon Oneironaut

To live lucid means to have that same relaxed self awareness that you have during a lucid dream during the day as well. To be able to pay attention to details around you at the same time as the whole environment as one unity and at the same time your own consciousness and to realize that the only way that you are able to perceive your environment is because of your own awareness. I get into this state by pretending that I am in a lucid dream during the day and I look at how effortlessly my mind creates the environment is such lucid detail. Of course I am awake and the question of whether or not it is a projection of my mind or not is purely philosophical, but I don't worry about the philosophy of it but I use it as a technique. Of course, having regular lucid dreams helps. During sleep one can remain lucid for the duration of the dream and even when the dream is over in which case if one doesn't wake up one will experience pure consciousness without form, it is very blissful. It is not an alternative to meditation... it IS meditation, or SAMADHI. I don't know about gamma waves, I'll have to research those. I use sound the sound technique I talked about above to prepare for WILDing. But I do the AH OM HUM RAM (rum) DZA mantra. I first do AH a number of times to vibrate the third eye until I am visualizing a strong white color and my head feels spacious, and I then move on to red OM in throat chakra and do likewise. Then blue HUM at heart likewise, Red RAM in belly likewise, and then green DZA in the root chakra. I take time with each syllable before moving on to the next. This has the effect of opening and purifying and energizing the channels and getting a good relaxed flow through body and mind which facillitates lucidity.

The other night I remained lucid the whole night and felt completely rested in the morning 8 hours later. I could tell that I was in DELTA when I wasn't dreaming but I felt like my head was in a bright light and I felt bodyless.

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Oh, you posted just before I did so that's why I said "I don't know what he means exactly" but I guess we meant the same thing. How do you stay awake the whole night? Using the AH OM HUM RAM (rum) DZA mantra? You start at night when you go to bed? Do you just lie in the same position and just don't move and wait for 8 hours? That's cool. I'll try.
(I knew about AH but not about the other ones.)

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Originally Posted by SleepyCookieDough

Oh, you poster just before I did so that's why I said "I don't know what he means exactly" but I guess we meant the same thing. How do you stay awake the whole night? Using the AH OM HUM RAM (rum) DZA mantra? You start at night when you go to bed? Do you just lie in the same position and just don't move and wait for 8 hours? That's cool. I'll try.
(I knew about AH but not about the other ones.)

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I do the mantra out loud in the beginning, then I just progressively relax and sometimes I slow my breathing down and make it so shallow that I'm barely breathing at all. I see how close i can get to not breathing. It is something to focus on and it REALLY relaxes the body and separates the mind from the body. As far as I know I'm the only person who does this. But I only do that until I am utterly relaxed, then I start breathing normally as if I were asleep. I then can feel energy pretty strongly so I move it around doing the 61 point relaxation technique.http://www.mind-energy.net/archives/...technique.html

Then I will just relax and let my body sleep and let my mind relax yet focus out all thoughts except one of observing my true self (which cannot be observed!). It is like trying to look at a star with binoculars: it is hard to hold it steady and it wiggles all over depending on how many thoughts are passing in front of it. But when I get it steady and I sink into it I am bodiless and in Delta. After a period of lucid dreams I will move my arms and legs and arch my back and then go back in, or I will get up and drink a glass of apple juice and go pee and then back to yoga nidra! (Yogic sleep)

how long did you have to practice in order to be able to acheive yogic sleep like this? it sounds great! all night.
do you access the dreams of Non-rem as well?

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Originally Posted by beachgirl

how long did you have to practice in order to be able to acheive yogic sleep like this? it sounds great! all night.
do you access the dreams of Non-rem as well?

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I didn't need too much practice, I guess I'm a natural because I remember as a kid I used to pretend I was dead and I would have crazy experiences so maybe I've been practicin since then but not so much in my later teen age years and early 20s. It really is easy (for me) the hardest part is to not get bored and decide to pass out. Also, you need to stop or transcend the monkey mind. That is why I do that very slow shallow breathing which is almost just taking a little little sip of air and immediately letting it flow back out and increasing the time between sips and making the sips smaller. And even when you feel it is time for a sip of air waiting for a few more seconds and you feel some kind of transcendental energy flowing liquid that carries you deeper. But this was the first time that I did it ALL night. I am kind of proud. These conversations have inspired me. Oh! The feeling of being immersed in light!!! Like soaking in a magick pool of water blessed by a unicorn!!!

I'm surprised I haven't exactly seen this come up but the only reason I see that you could lose sleep is if you try too hard to WILD since you have to be awake for it or if you mess up while taking lucid aids that causes you to stay up.

Other than that, I find no reason how it can negatively affect you. If anything it's positive and healthy for the mind like as mentioned about Tibetan Dream Yoga. Awareness.

According to power-napping, you only need REM in order to get the "recharged" feeling upon awakening. Power nappers spend only about 5-10mins in non-REM, then about 30mins of REM, then that's all and you can function normally if not, better. You'd have to becareful though to not to get a bonus nap or else you'd hit rebound for non-REM.

From what I understand, the only difference between normal dreams and lucid dreams is that you activate the Dorsolateral section of the Prefrontal Cortex during a lucid dream. DLPFC is basically responsible for self-awareness and rational thinking. I know the mind is already very active during REM sleep, but you just add the DLPFC activity.

I know there's more to it, but that's from what I understand. I could be wrong though.

I Love reading this thread!

My contributions:
Sleeping is especially for resting the mind. The body could do with just physical rest (not sleep). But for the well-being of the mind it's a great neccesity. And (lucid)dreaming is part of the REM-sleep, which isn't the part of the sleep where the mind really rests, so as long as your not extending your REM sleep (is that even possible?) I don't think it can harm you to LD.

Also I saw Tobi Uchiha mentioning 5-MeO-DMT, but after that the discussion went on, but with DMT, but there is an important difference between the two. 5-MeO-DMT is much stronger and has a bit different effect, but now to think of it Tobi Uchiha was wrong since the substance isn't made in the human body.
But the expression of DMT in the body is at such low dosises that it can't really be compared with the drug use of the substance. And soon I will be speaking from experience because I can get some from a friend:)

Deciding not to let your own interests be dependent on those of the people close to you makes you a bit lonely. But life is to important to let it be lead by others. But luckily my father has a bit of a spiritual mindset, so I like talking to him about it. Ans some of my friends like the idea, but aren't there yet, where they really want to bring it to practice.

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Originally Posted by SleepyCookieDough

That reminds me how when i do an RC, someone that knows I do LDs will be like "what are you doing?" and I'll say "checking if I'm dreaming or not" and they they'll reply "You don't know if your dreaming or not? Wo, you're lost!"... I find it so ironic because they don't know if their dreaming or not either. Everyone just 'assumes' there not dreaming, they don't 'know'. And then when we're dreaming, we, lucid dreamers, (sometimes or most of the time) know that we are doing while these people who think we're lost think they know they are still not dreaming... It be funny if they had a dream in which they saw someone doing a RC and they would have the dialogue I just wrote. That be an epic fail... "You don't know if you're dreaming or not? Wo, you're lost, man! We're obviously not dreaming!" (within a dream)

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I love this way of thinking

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Originally Posted by Dannon Oneironaut

Deciding not to let your own interests be dependent on those of the people close to you makes you a bit lonely. But life is to important to let it be lead by others. But luckily my father has a bit of a spiritual mindset, so I like talking to him about it. Ans some of my friends like the idea, but aren't there yet, where they really want to bring it to practice.

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yeah, we can't let other people lead our lives which I would definitly not do. My mom keeps asking me to stop LDing and when I think about it I figure out I can't. It's part of me now and it be just as if I stopped eating (well, it wouldn't kill me)
I guess, its like that for every LDers... :)

:thanks: Also, thank you for everyone who answered! :D

Originally Posted by Dannon Oneironaut?

Didn't realise he said the exact thing, weird;)

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Originally Posted by SleepyCookieDough

yeah, we can't let other people lead our lives which I would definitly not do.

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It's not always a choice to influence people, but it is their choice to which extent they let your presence influence them.
Like deciding were you go to study? A lot of people let it be influenced by the people around them, but it is way to important to go/stay at the same place as your friends, while the right study for you may be at a different place.

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Originally Posted by Wikihan

Originally Posted by Dannon Oneironaut?

Didn't realise he said the exact thing, weird;)


It's not always a choice to influence people, but it is their choice to which extent they let your presence influence them.
Like deciding were you go to study? A lot of people let it be influenced by the people around them, but it is way to important to go/stay at the same place as your friends, while the right study for you may be at a different place.

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That's weird, I quoted you... :uhm:

That was a good exemple too.

No worries, I won't sue you;)

I thought of it this summer when I switched universities. Now it's like one of my main philosophies when I have decide about something.

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Originally Posted by Wikihan

No worries, I won't sue you;)

I thought of it this summer when I switched universities. Now it's like one of my main philosophies when I have decide about something.

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that's nice.
Me, its that since I LD and I felt so different and alone and stuff, I completly stopped worrying about other people's opinion. I decided I was me and that I was unique and I started liking it when people said I was weird and different because it meant I wasn't stuck in this world when you worry about what other people say. So i do my own things now. But I love being around people and that's the thing. When we talk, it always makes me think of something dream related and I want to talk about it but I can't. Anything else, i can say. Dreams are much more of a taboo than things that I use to think were when I was a kid such as sex, drugs/alcohol, etc... I never thought when I was a kid that sex would be something you hear about every day but that no one would allow you to talk about dreams. Well people do allow me to talk about dreams under one condition: that I talk about it like a normal person: "I had a weird dream last night ( not a lucid dream, a dream, not an SP, a dream, not a false awakening, a dream, not a obe, a dream, just a dream)" and then you say it and then you change subject.... :P

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Originally Posted by SleepyCookieDough

that's nice.
Me, its that since I LD and I felt so different and alone and stuff, I completly stopped worrying about other people's opinion. I decided I was me and that I was unique and I started liking it when people said I was weird and different because it meant I wasn't stuck in this world when you worry about what other people say. So i do my own things now. But I love being around people and that's the thing. When we talk, it always makes me think of something dream related and I want to talk about it but I can't. Anything else, i can say.

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That is why we have to keep quiet and not "cast pearls before swine" as the bible says. We need to learn to jabber like monkeys about meaningless things like the weather without talking about anything deep like lucid dreaming except with like minded people or people who are close to us and care what and who we are. But for the masses we say things like "I am tired today, I didn't get enough sleep." Or: "I slept well last night." Or: "It sure has been cold. Do you think we will have a cold winter?"

Dannon, that is an absolutely amazing quote. I think that's going in my signature.

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Originally Posted by Dannon Oneironaut

That is why we have to keep quiet and not "cast pearls before swine" as the bible says. We need to learn to jabber like monkeys about meaningless things like the weather without talking about anything deep like lucid dreaming except with like minded people or people who are close to us and care what and who we are. But for the masses we say things like "I am tired today, I didn't get enough sleep." Or: "I slept well last night." Or: "It sure has been cold. Do you think we will have a cold winter?"

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yeah, I know. It's what I try to do but when i think about it, most of us, lucid dreamers, don't talk about it to other people and if we don't, how can we find each other in real life, not just on a forum? yes, i try only talking about it to people that care for me but still those people don't think lucid dreams can exist or that its just a waste or time or whatever.

I did like your post a lot 'cause its so true. I hear things like "I am tired today, I didn't get enough sleep" and then I think about how I woke up in sleep paralisis and I want to say that but people are gonna say "Oh, you were just dreaming, you were not actually paralized, don't be silly!" so i stay quiet and say "Oh yeah, didn't sleep much either, it was sorta cold..." But its a lie 'cause I always sleep well and when i don't, i don't remember my dreams so my only concern is that I didn't remember my dreams but its not like I can go and say that to everyone "I had a bad night last night, I didn't remember any of my dreams!" Someone also said something about keeping a journal and some people laughed. I wanted to say "Hey, I've got one too! But I put dreams in it, not stuff that happens through the day." but I just said that it was cool that he had kept a journal. I feel like I need to lie all the time and pretend I feel certain ways when i actually feel another way. I'm okay with it but I like expressing all of it on this forum since I can't go to anybody and talk about it.

Well, you can just be yourself and to hell with the people who think you're wierd! Someone will be bound to be interested sooner or later. Maybe someone will start keeping a dream journal! Other people will just think that you are a little odd, but at least you can be lovably odd. Put up flyers for a dream group! I joined a dream group once and met some cute girls who like to dream!

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Originally Posted by Dannon Oneironaut

Well, you can just be yourself and to hell with the people who think you're wierd! Someone will be bound to be interested sooner or later. Maybe someone will start keeping a dream journal! Other people will just think that you are a little odd, but at least you can be lovably odd. Put up flyers for a dream group! I joined a dream group once and met some cute girls who like to dream!

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I don't mind being weird, I just end up talking to myself when i talk about lucid dream so I don't see why I would. I know I made it sound like it was a big issue in my life but it isn't. It does bother me but not for real... I get myself. I'm fine with it, I just like talking about it. :)