Rather strange dream experience....

[Ghazal]

Last night, i had a Lucid dream Now, the story goes, i came out of my bathroom and looked outside and it was very dark. I walked into my living room and looked out of another window and it was clear as day. Went back into the kitchen and looked out of the first window and it was clear as day just like it was in the room. Staggered by this weird change of light i stumbled back, and lo and behold i said; " **** me this is a dream!" Then everything...how shall i put it..."shifted". Can't really describe it, only it was quite odd because everything seemed real (if i remember correctly). But i don't remember having control, all i remember doing is running around the living room. Earlier last night i said to myself if i became lucid, i'd run around the room for a start, untill i achieved high lucidity, then i'd do other stuff. The thing that's troubling me is, i can't remember having control, but i did what i thought i'd do, which could've made it a false LD or whatever they are .

[Leo Volont]

Originally posted by Ghazal Last night, i had a Lucid dream * Now, the story goes, i came out of my bathroom and looked outside and it was very dark. I walked into my living room and looked out of another window and it was clear as day. Went back into the kitchen and looked out of the first window and it was clear as day just like it was in the room. Staggered by this weird change of light i stumbled back, and lo and behold i said; \" **** me this is a dream!\" Then everything...how shall i put it...\"shifted\". Can't really describe it, only it was quite odd because everything seemed real (if i remember correctly). But i don't remember having control, all i remember doing is running around the living room. Earlier last night i said to myself if i became lucid, i'd run around the room for a start, untill i achieved high lucidity, then i'd do other stuff. The thing that's troubling me is, i can't remember having control, but i did what i thought i'd do, which could've made it a false LD or whatever they are * . Maybe after the millionth person complains that they have had lucid dreams without control it will finally begin to occur to the faithful that all the book writers and seminar speakers were hyping a popular phenonema while saying anything they could think of to sell more of whatever it was they were pushing. I'm surprised it is still working for them. In the beginning, while nobody was Lucid Dreaming, they could say anything they liked and who could possibly argue. But now, after twenty years, why are these bankrupt snakeoil salemen still able to cash the same bouncing checks -- why, after all that we now know, do we still give any credence to their broken promises of Dream Control? Is this some kind of a new offshoot of Christianity where all common sense must be tossed out and we must swear to a Faith, in this thing called Control, which nobody has but which we all must believe in? Check out this web page about Lucidity: http://www.sawka.com/spiritwatch/tableof.htm especially page down to Dr. Ann Faraday, who was writing books and selling out seminars at the very beginning and onset of the Lucid Dreaming rage, and you will read, in "The Selling of the Senoi" that she is deeply sorry that she did her part to pass along what turned out to be outright fabrications concerning Lucid Control. Lucidity is about being aware when one is dreaming that one is dreaming. It is being aware that one is dreaming. It allows us to make our Dream Choices using our Waking Consciousness instead of the ordinary more primitive Dream Consciousness. Indeed, it seems that the purpose of Lucid Dreaming... why our Minds even allow such a thing... is so our Dream Selves and our Waking Selves can come to some integrated synthesis. That should be enough. But early on the Book Writers and the Seminar Speakers didn't think they could come up with an angle that could sell such deep psychology. It seemed easier to tell people they could summon up sleazy sex partners on command. Yes, it sold. But that never made it true. We should, then, stop believing it. Or should we screw around with lies for another 20 years?

[Ghazal]

:S Eh? I wasn't complaining about not having control, 'cause that happens all of the time, i was asking whether it was a false LD or not.

[TheKnife]

No matter the control, it sounds like a real ld. But that is probably up to you, you were there, we weren't.

[Ghazal]

That's my problem. It was a LD, i'm quite sure of it, but my memory of it was uber hazy, so i may've got things wrong. But still, my first LD!!

[Leo Volont]

Originally posted by Ghazal :S Eh? I wasn't complaining about not having control, 'cause that happens all of the time, i was asking whether it was a false LD or not. You know, sometimes when you come into an intellectual discussion it is good to bring your lunchbox and stay awhile. You were the one who brought up Dream Control. I answer you and then you complain that what you really wanted to know was whether you are delusional or not. Okay. You are delusional. You will never know for sure whether anything in your waking or dreaming life is as it seems. and do you know why? The bulb you see by just isn't bright enough.

[icedawg]

Originally posted by Leo Volont Maybe after the millionth person complains that they have had lucid dreams without control it will finally begin to occur to the faithful that all the book writers and seminar speakers were hyping a popular phenonema while saying anything they could think of to sell more of whatever it was they were pushing. * I'm surprised it is still working for them. *In the beginning, while nobody was Lucid Dreaming, they could say anything they liked and who could possibly argue. *But now, after twenty years, why are these bankrupt snakeoil salemen still able to cash the same bouncing checks -- why, after all that we now know, do we still give any credence to their broken promises of Dream Control? *Is this some kind of a new offshoot of Christianity where all common sense must be tossed out and we must swear to a Faith, in this thing called Control, which nobody has but which we all must believe in? Hi Leo, I don't fully understand what you're saying about dream control here. I believe you're suggesting it's generally not as rigid a control as some would lead one to believe, nor is it as easily attainable. That I agree with, since it does take practice to change aspects in one's dream; I just wanted to make it clear to those reading that it is possible to attain some level of control. On the main site I try to emphasize that: control is separate from lucid dreaming, that a lot can be gained from simply experiencing lucid dreaming without control, that many people may simply not be interested in even attempting control, and that for some it may just prove too difficult. I do discuss control though, because I've had success with it and I know others have too and frankly it can be a lot of fun; it's as I said though, not easy and generally not as absolute as others may lead one to believe. I think I also touch on the dangers of losing touch with reality and whatnot if one allows such an attitude to percolate through one's soul. I'm not sure if I address any of these issues adequately on the site, but when I next revisit it to rewrite some sections I'll try to keep this in mind. It's important to remember that we all arrive at lucid dreaming for different reasons; I designed this forum to be open to everyone, so we're likely to get the greatest variation of people here. Some of users are here just to have fun with lucid dreaming, and that often means pursuing control. Again when I next update the site I'll try to be a little more clear about how much control is possible, and about what is sacrificed in its pursuit. So do you not attempt any control at all in your dreams Leo, or do you to some extent (perhaps changing the setting, etc.), while also recognizing you're interested in your natural dreams (and any messages or underlying meanings they may have--again, another point I address on the main site)? In my own dreams, I've only been interested in making few changes: setting has always been one, perhaps the people around me, and then there's simply determination & frame of mind (i.e. just controlling my own behaviour, to achieve whatever I'm attempting; again, I think I mention that as perhaps a good use of control on the main site).