Existentialism 101

[s00p]

Alright, here's a responce to the infinite "I've done this all before", we're a product of the enviroment and society is responsible for corrupting the individual. In my teen years I believed that observation was flawed, and that no information could be truly known. This is the foundation of the belief of a skeptic. I behaved as though everything existed, but only up to the point that it pleased me. Today, I still hold that we cannot truly understand anything, or have a complete knowledge that it exists. However, I also have this incurrable idiot thing (according to society today) called faith. Faith doesn't require absolute knowledge. Faith is fundamental to a meaningful life. Existentialism is the search for truth within oneself. It accepts that there are absolute consequences and that life is a series of choice that one cannot deny. This is not as dark as it sounds. It brings hope and motivation that we can create our own life and now enviroment can truly control us. Raise your right hand. Alright, how do you know that you raised it? Your senses? NO, you cannot trust your senses (think about movies like The Matrix. But you have faith that you raised it. Good, you're now an existentialist. Let's open this for debate, I'm in a fiery mood!

[AirRick101]

I once made a thread about that everything is at best, an interpretation, and that we may never see things for the way they are. At least, that doesn't take us away from experiencing a perceptive phenomenon that we call "seeing it as it is" About the raising the hand example...I might not consciously do it in the sense that it is a conglomeration of subconscious and physiological responses to some internal or external stimuli. But I can also experience doing it at will...but if you do not believe this, then you can see it as me thinking I'm doing it and witnessing it happening at the same time, therefore making me say that I did it on my own.

[will.i.am]

"Existentialism is a doctrine that renders human life possible." Jean Paul Sartre: Existentialism is a Humanism "Existentialism is nothing else but an attempt to draw the full conclusions from a consistently atheistic position." Sartre It's the analysis of individual existence and why you are who you are and what makes you that. This also brings up the idea of nature vs nurture. How do you define your own existence? By thinking you can raise your hand?

[s00p]

Ah, but we are talking about a broad spectrum here: the existentialist philosophy represents both Christians and those who don't believe in God. Atheists believe in science and the power of reason and observation. Reason is dismissed by the existentialist philosophy, instead it is faith and emotion that guides all human life. I believe that "atheistic" might be a poorly translated or interpereted Sartre quote. "Existentialism's first move is to make every man aware of what he is and to make the full responsibility of his existence rest on him." --Jean-Paul Sartre It is also to note that Dostoyevsky held many arguments against the socialist and nihilest "progressives" of his era. As one of the kingpins of existentialism, he believed that victimization was a slippery slope towards moral decay. In Crime and Punishment, Svidrigilov is the "victim" and can blame all of his actions upon society. He is a moral relativist (the nature vs. individualism argument). So, to answer your question, raising my right hand doesn't define my own existence, my faith that the hand has been raised does. So, this is somewhat a dry thread ( I must be a boring internet personality). So, maybe some topics of discussion might be good: --Does your socioeconomic (class & upbringing) make any influence in your life? --What's your philosophy? What are morals? --How does this relate to dreams ( )? So....don't leave me hangin' ! (It looks like an overgrown mutated dog...)

[kimpossible]

As much as I believe that I raised my hand, the strain-gauge says I didn't. The mercury switch concurs. And an independant observer watching the video says the strain gauge and mercury switch are right. ergo: you can existentialist yourself into tomorrow, but the properties of the space occupied by the hand remain decidedly unimpressed.

[s00p]

This thread needs some sex. but the properties of the space occupied by the hand remain decidedly unimpressed.[/b] Sounds like Douglas Adams! I posted this short post because it disappeared too damn quickly from the recent threads list. And that's the whole point of existentialism-you determine your own truth, and you can't find it by stairing at the stars and waiting for a higher being to give it to you. (Zaphod's two heads beating the crap out of eachother) So long and thanks for all the fish!

[Doc Holliday]

I simply cannot let this pass!! You cant have a thread about Existentialism without a single mention of Nietzsche, Kierkegaard, or Camus!!! tsk. tsk. tsk... For shame....

[s00p]

Nietzsche was more of a nihlist...but Kierkegaard is my main man. This was more an angry responce to "I'm a product of society, I'm the victim" mentality...

[Jokers Wild]

Whether or not you actually raise your hand or not has nothing to do with existentialism. Existentialism is the basis of deciding among any number of subjective truths that will eventually, through he appropriation process, be recognized as fact in the end; that is unless you are christian and believe in the absurd and take that paradoxical route in which you never figure anything out [/i]in time[i]. SO it's not raising your hand, it's deciding whether or not to raise your hand.

[disarm]

I'm not very familiar with existentialism, only the research I've done for me and the research I did for - The Outsider - Camus' text. I was under the impression that Existentialism is a way for the self to be evaluated, or rather for humans to value and determine their existence, essence. "Existence precedes and rules essence," Satre Meaning that there isn't a set of rules or predetermined value that we can assign to humanity and our existence but there is only our choices and actions and it is this that defines existence.. We can only be judged, defined, by our our actions choices and there is no ultimate "human nature" that covers us. <<Does your socioeconomic (class & upbringing) make any influence in your life?>> Nature vs Nurture? Of course. These two define us as human beings. Even if you don't admit it or think about it or recognise it. The way you are, genetically, and the way you are brought up to be, environement and emotional, determine how you make choices, how you decide and how you view life. <<What's your philosophy? What are morals?>> I don't have a philosophy as of yet. I may not ever have one. I don't like the idea of having a guidline to my thoughts though.. To me, morals can be preached and imposed and decided upon for you but none of them are real. The only real true morals are the ones that you decide upon and the ones that you respect and hold to in your life. Of course these are shaped and influenced by people around you and by morals that have been imposed on you. You can never truly respect and abide by someone elses rules and codes for your life and expect to be happy and satisfied. You need to make your own and you need to believe in them to the point where if it came down to a choice and your morals were brought into conflict you could choose your morals because they are a reflection of your beliefs. Then again, some people don't want that, so they don't. Hmm, I wonder if any of that made sense. Oh well, All the best disarm

[s00p]

This is the exact opposite point I'm trying to make! But I love to debate this! Existentialism is accepting that life is a continuous series of choices. As soon as you accept that you are not accountable because it's your "upbringing", you have forsaken your humanity, because the very foundation of human existence is freedom. As soon as you accept that morals are relative, that conscious is used subjectively, that's when you loose your faith. Does a victim mentality make your life more enjoyable? I plan on doing something with mine, and my enviroment cannot hinder me. In response to joker's wild, that's a valid point as well. Existentialism is about experience equating to belief, or faith. You must make the choice (to raise one's hand) to know that one exists. Sometimes I switch the two...

[Lowercase Society]

To defy the laws of tradition is a crusade only of the brain.

[Awaken4e1]

It is all about the tail wagging the dog, just as if man exsits without God. Not happening.

[InTheMoment]

Originally posted by Awaken4e1 It is all about the tail wagging the dog, just as if man exsits without God. Not happening. Time flys like an arrow, fruit flys like a banana. Oh, how I love the analogy game...is that a required course in a Theology Curriculum?

[Awaken4e1]

[Belisarius]

Originally posted by kimpossible As much as I believe that I raised my hand, the strain-gauge says I didn't. The mercury switch concurs. And an independant observer watching the video says the strain gauge and mercury switch are right. ergo: you can existentialist yourself into tomorrow, but the properties of the space occupied by the hand remain decidedly unimpressed. So what you're saying is because you see a strain-gauge not change, a mercury switch not change, and another individual claiming to whatch a video tells you that you did not raise your hand, even though you saw and felt that you did, you did not raise your hand? That seems rather...absurd.

[kimpossible]

Not at all. What are the odds of three independent sources (two of them calibrated instruments, another an uninvolved third-party) all being infinitely off? Astronomical. The odds are much better that you're deluding yourself. Just look at the awakenbot for any number of examples where the hard facts say he's full of it, but he'll never see it.

[Awaken4e1]

Astronomical odds are mean to be proven off...cause some one drop some mustard in the mix...

[Rakkantekimusouka]

Originally posted by Awaken4e1 Astronomical odds are mean to be proven off...cause some one drop some mustard in the mix...

[kimpossible]

Allegedly, Moo, this is the person that has a doctorate. I wasn't aware they awarded those in the specialty of Short Bus Riding. I thought you had to, like, write papers that were at least vaguely articulate and stuff.

[Awaken4e1]

That statement would be the equitant of stated that Einstein was an above average student.

[Awaken4e1]

Originally posted by kimpossible Not at all. *What are the odds of three independent sources (two of them calibrated instruments, another an uninvolved third-party) all being infinitely off? Astronomical. The odds are much better that you're deluding yourself. *Just look at the awakenbot for any number of examples where the hard facts say he's full of it, but he'll never see it. Can you tell me the odds of a $1.5 billion dallor Telescope is rendered inoperable, and then after two years of being in this state, it all be its self 'fixed' its self? I guess you would say that is also possible? yea right.

[Awaken4e1]

As if it hasn’t been noticed: I embark upon these little quests to bring those of considerable intellect to the point of frustration, and watch them stew in their own juices for a while, to see to what depths they are willing to stoup to make the others believe that I am a total idiot when in fact it is they who have been played under the guise of there having to prove to everyone else that they are the superior ones. Good Luck!

[Rakkantekimusouka]

...*head explodes*

[Awaken4e1]

Originally posted by Rakkantekimusouka ...*head explodes* Nice Sig...